SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
The drink scene was honestly cute. I was like, "lol, that was so smooth, Cloud, you little dork". And he looked so proud of himself too after.
It’s what makes me think anyone claiming Cloud is just shy with Aerith in Rebirth is misunderstanding Cloud’s character. He has the confidence to flirt if he wants to… he just doesn’t want to.

He CAN be shy, but sometimes his awkwardness is because he’s conflicted vs being embarrassed about expressing himself.
 

abzy1200

Pro Adventurer
Doesnt the drink also represent something romantic?

If I'm remembering correctly, and it does, then Cloud and Tifa both gave each other things that represent romantic things, in a subtle way without telling each other what the meaning behind said things are.

Cloud-reunion flower
Tifa-The Cosmo Canyon (that's what it's called, right?)

This argument was settled 2 hours into remake sigh
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
Doesnt the drink also represent something romantic?

If I'm remembering correctly, and it does, then Cloud and Tifa both gave each other things that represent romantic things, in a subtle way without telling each other what the meaning behind said things are.

Cloud-reunion flower
Tifa-The Cosmo Canyon (that's what it's called, right?)

This argument was settled 2 hours into remake sigh
Rebirth there was npc dialogue about it after the sidemission when they drink it
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
It’s what makes me think anyone claiming Cloud is just shy with Aerith in Rebirth is misunderstanding Cloud’s character. He has the confidence to flirt if he wants to… he just doesn’t want to.

He CAN be shy, but sometimes his awkwardness is because he’s conflicted vs being embarrassed about expressing himself.

For me, SOLDIER!Cloud can't be shy because it's not something cool (in his head), so he's more likely to make the first move, even if it means looking awkward.

And that's why we only get a glimpse of his shy side when he's with Tifa (the only person the Real!Cloud is able to appear with from time to time, if we listen to the devs' comments in the Ultimania remake).
 

cgnVirtue

Lv. 25 Adventurer
AKA
Virtue
Trust me there are worse fandoms than the FFVII shipping community. In gaming yes. There are some parts of the gaming sphere where you kind of don't want to be a woman. Not only that, but also some kpop communities are insane. Etc. etc. I feel social media kind of exarcerbate this kind of behaviour (mob behaviour).

Coincidentally enough, in my experience I’ve noticed that there is a lot of overlap between toxic shippers and Kpop… Stans? Insane fans? Whatever we want to call them. But the more I go around blocking people on Twitter (lol) I’m noticing there are quite a few toxic shippers that also stan certain Kpop groups/idols. There’s probably some confirmation bias here, since most of the FF7 people I follow are CTs anyways and only a few of them make me feel embarrassed. But it’s weird that I’ve encountered this combination more than a handful of times.
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
Doesnt the drink also represent something romantic?

If I'm remembering correctly, and it does, then Cloud and Tifa both gave each other things that represent romantic things, in a subtle way without telling each other what the meaning behind said things are.

Cloud-reunion flower
Tifa-The Cosmo Canyon (that's what it's called, right?)

This argument was settled 2 hours into remake sigh
I know not everyone was thrilled about Remake being all in Midgar, but I thought scaling it down to just there allowed for way more depth in showing us important details.

Replaying it after Part 3 will be interesting
 

Legend45

Pro Adventurer
The mocap actor for Cloud reached Chapter 9 in Gongaga last night, and he confirmed that Cloud's intents are "pure" and that "he is worried about her" when discussing this scenario with Aerith. This disproves the whole "omg he is so jealous" argument.


1000014508.jpg
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
The mocap actor for Cloud reached Chapter 9 in Gongaga last night, and he confirmed that Cloud's intents are "pure" and that "he is worried about her" when discussing this scenario with Aerith. This disproves the whole "omg he is so jealous" argument.


View attachment 16826
It’s a shame because the fact that Cloud feels compelled to even attempt to comfort her and be supportive is adorable in its own right.

Jealous Cloud just glares and simmers lol
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
It’s a shame because the fact that Cloud feels compelled to even attempt to comfort her and be supportive is adorable in its own right.

Jealous Cloud just glares and simmers lol

That's the "sad" part of it. If they would just take the story as it is without their twisted cerebral gymnastics, they might enjoy a sincere and rather cute friendship. A lot of wholesome moments.

And not the pathetic womanizer they hope he is, to justify their ship.
 

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
It’s interesting to me that “jealousy” came to some people’s minds in that scene.

The one thing that stuck out to me was Cloud’s face when he asks her if she has feelings for Zack. It is so straight, not a sign of anything on it. Throughout the game Cloud’s face is so expressive when he’s annoyed, awkward, shy, jealous, etc.

It was almost like the game was saying “There is nothing behind this question” lol.
 

Maidenofwar

They/Them
The Ultimanias suggest he is jealous which is where people get it from.

Anyway the mocap is Cloti biased so of course he'll go with that, forgive me if I take it with a pinch of salt.

You'd think people were monstrous for discussing a normal human emotion like jealousy.

Also it's possible to feel more than one thing.


Cloud can also flirt with Aerith if he wants, OG, Rebirth, "nothing sneaky about it/I took it boldly", etc, and photograph hype is real Cloud.
 
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Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
It has to be. There's no way someone came up with it and was proud enough to post it online seriously.


Have you not seen the Clerith blue baby theory?
I've seen it, but not in some time. Wanted to see what people were spouting.

It should be obvious that the 'like' in the sentence doesn't apply to all three things and only 'mother' even without elaborating on Japanese grammar and how the sentence is structured in Japanese. How can Tifa be like a close ally in battle, if she literally is one?
Also that, yes.

The Buffy ship wars were kind of nuts in retrospect, because the options were literally

-The one who grooms her from the age of 16
-The one who attempts to rape her

...there is a 3rd gay option that was more of a queerbaiting situation.

I think FF7 is doing aight by comparison lmao
Also Riley, the boy so bland he.... bland.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
Yeah people can feel more than one thing as they can have other feelings than love.

Cloud may be introvert but his face show emotions. All kind of emotions. And with a lot of people during the story.
He doesn't show anything during this scene. Just asked the question. It's not even romantic because the game invites Tifa to the scene. A scene where Cloud understands he made a mistake talking about Zack like that and follows Tifa with his eyes when she's leaving. You can see the camera is not showing Aerith anymore. As if he wanted to talk with Tifa about something.

Not really the mindset of someone focused on Aerith in this moment.

So no. He's not jealous. Because we already saw him and he's really bad at hiding it.
 

Maidenofwar

They/Them
I won't be gaslighted into thinking Cloud and Aerith are not a thing, not at all, if they were nothing but friends he wouldn't agree to dating.

I'm sorry but he IS focused on Aerith, especially since this "worry" is something that is brought up four to five times later again in the game.

Some I've seen couldn't stand the fact that Cloud could be jealous like suggested in Ultimania, like Aerith was jealous, like Tifa was jealous, like Zack was jealous, it has to be uncomplicated.
 
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Yoru

Pro Adventurer
And that's your problem.

Cloud worrying about Aerith = Being in love.

You don't have "to be a thing" to care about someone.

You can accept the date from Jessie in Remake too. But it doesn't seem to me we're debating Cloud's eternal love for her.
 

abzy1200

Pro Adventurer
When talking about the OG, sure, Cloud and Aerith were a thing. Not past the Northern Crater, though.

Plus, Aerith's ex being Cloud's late best friend is bound to create complications in how he feels towards her, and him remembering specifically
that his dead best friend was head over heels for this girl is relevant, especially with how he acts with her on her Gold Saucer date.

He coldly declines her offer to sit next to her, and in contrast with Tifa's date where he takes every chance he can to gawk at Tifa, Cloud takes every opportunity to not look at Aerith.

Anyway the mocap is Cloti biased so of course he'll go with that, forgive me if I take it with a pinch of salt.
Here's the thing though, since these guys (including the VAs) are actors, they are probably given direction on how to act, what emotions to try and depict etc.

First and foremost, to act a character effectively, you need to understand the character. Understanding Cloud is the first step to accurately depicting him on screen. These people aren't like us, they are involved with devs in how they should 'act' the character.

Cloud's actors aren't 'Cloti biased', they just understand the character.
 

Maidenofwar

They/Them
I'm fairly sure Cloud's mocap is also Zack's mocap unless I'm misunderstanding so of course he's not going to get between that, and I've Clotis citing him as being pro Tifa/Cloti.

Sitting at a distance is a romantic trope (I've just been playing a game again where the leads do the same, right up to the girl closing the distance because the guy kind of doesn't quite get it, and is kind of a goof sometimes) it's -because- he cares, and it's meant to parallel one of their previous dates where they get closer.

People can try to diminish or downplay Aerith's date as much as they want, fact is they used her as the romantic option on Cloud's profile and in the story digest of Rebirth Ultimania, and the developers said some dates were romantic, that's more than one, sure people on both sides can then try to split hairs over which is more romantic or dissect each date as much as possible going over every inch of framing, making OOC edits to make things look bad, etc but in the end they are both romantic even for those who try to make it small romance as much as possible.
 
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Yoru

Pro Adventurer
Some I've seen couldn't stand the fact that Cloud could be jealous like suggested in Ultimania, like Aerith was jealous, like Tifa was jealous, like Zack was jealous, it has to be uncomplicated.

I can stand it. I'm just saying it's not the case during chapter 9.

This is the second time he's been told about this Zack dude. It's obvious this girl has trouble letting go of the past. It just makes sense to ask her if she still loves him.

That's like the first thing you ask a friend when they talk to you about someone dearly but gone.

You can still see things the way you want. But how do you think this game will end ? Seriously, I really want to know.
 

abzy1200

Pro Adventurer
Sitting at a distance is a romantic trope (I've just been playing a game again where the leads) do the same, it's -because- he cares, and it's meant to parallel one of their previous dates where they get closer.
Is it though? When he declines an obvious invitation to sit next to her and she takes her hand away...looking a bit offended...I don't think that's romantic.

I don't want to be rude, but I don't really think 'sitting at a distance' is a romantic trope. From what I've seen, anyway. And if it is, it certainly does not apply to him being a bit cold towards her during the GS date. Especially not when compared to how he acts on Tifa's GS date.

Just to elaborate on this a bit more. Yes, I think sitting a distance could be a 'romantic' trope when one or both parties are shy. Declining an offer by sighing and then averting your gaze from the person who gave you the invitation is a situation where that probably doesn't apply.

I'm fairly sure Cloud's mocap is also Zack's mocap unless I'm misunderstanding so of course he's not going to get between that, and I've Clotis citing him as being pro Tifa/Cloti.
If the translations of what Cloud's mocap had to say about Cloud and Tifa in Gongaga are correct, then yeah, people wouldn't be entirely wrong about him being 'pro-cloti'.

x.com

And I'm sorry, but I don't think I'm quite understanding what you're trying to say here. Why is him being Zack's mocap relevant? what does he not want to get between? Cloti and Zerith?

this is genuine question, not trying to be rude.


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Another thing I'd like to add to my point on the actors. I'm pretty sure I saw a while ago that Brit Baron (Tifa's VA) had qualms about Tifa and Aerith's relationship. So she asked about it, and her questions were answered. So yes, the actors are allowed to ask questions about the characters, and those questions are allowed to be answered.
 
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Maidenofwar

They/Them
Here is an example-


(from 13.00 minutes)

Like it's not the only time I've seen such a thing in games. If people are supposed to be disheartened, sad, or upset in some way at Cloud here, they mostly aren't imho,
that Cloud's cold and uncaring, nah I don't think so.

Yeah, if I was mocap for two characters I liked, and both had a girl they liked, but one also had another possible romantic interest, and it was the girl one of my main characters love, maybe feeling Aerith is Zack's "girl", I'd probably not want to rock the boat.

Brit Baron iirc also said people should be open minded about fanservice leading both sides to wonder which got just fanservice, but either way it was official content.
 
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Gym Leader Devil

True Master of the Dark-type (suck it Piers)
AKA
So many names
Very minor point of order, he did not say she was like a lover. While you can read the "is like" to refer to all three of her roles in English as it comes at the start of the sentence ("She is like a mother, a sweetheart, and an ally in battle" is the specific English phrasing, I believe) the grammar of the Japanese is slightly different, in that it's three short sentence fragments, each with a declarative "aru" at the end, and of these, only mother has the "like" modifier applied to it. She's like a mother. She is a lover/ beloved. She is an ally in battle.
This is a small thing, but it's an important one, fuckdammit. Same as how reading 'sweetheart' as 'nice person' is not a correct interpretation of the sentence based on the meaning of Koibito, so to is saying she's 'like' a lover incorrect.

This is why you're Admiral.

Stars are absolutely a C/T thing and like all C/T things, must be co-opted for the cause.

I hate how right you are about this. Let's all remember that Cloti stands up on its own, while Clerith needs to lean on Cloti like it had a few too many at 7th Heaven.

So powerful, she even rewrites the standard rules of canonicity.

That's Erza Materia Jesus for ya!

Like, it's dumber than the monkey pairings, and that's saying something.

Well, the monkey pairings have a certain feel to them. There are game franchises and companies I could see using monkey pairings to reference a canon ship, tease a popular but unresolved ship, or troll fans of a sunken ship. I could see it, easily... just not from this company in this franchise :monster:

Different sort of Owe. He owes them for 'services rendered' absolutely. I was referring to 'for personal grievance' owing. Even then, it's a close thing.

The heavier debt still feels like it's owed to Denzel to me, but it is indeed a close thing.

Reeve should be paying for him and Marlene to go to college wherever they choose. if not more.

Huh, maybe Marlene and Denzel will be the ones to develop green energy.

Yeah, there's a schadenfeude, but there's also lots of pity.

Having pity alongside schadenfreude is what keeps us from being 100% dicks right?

There's so much fucked up shit re: that I don't even know where to start.

Indeed, spoiled for choice is what we are.

Enjoy it, you black Scottish cyclops.

If only Demo wasn't my worst class. Especially after they nerfed the Scottish resistance... although I'm told they buffed it, nerfed it twice, and buffed it again since so wtfk at this point.

Now you've got me thinking of ShinRa as a toy company subsidiary.

Rufus gotta keep profits up after the OG somehow. Also who makes Queen's Blood cards?

Always a terrible curse, that.

Self fulfilling, as is right and proper.

True, true.

It's a mess worth making, however.

And always read the fine print.

Don't be Black Mage, take your time. With a magnifying glass. And a contract lawyer.

Indeed it was.

:monster:

Along with special pleading, cherry picking, ignoring evidence, outright lying, fabricating evidence.... I could go on.

The old LTD was pretty much a course on dishonest debate tactics.

Other people so stupid as to boggles the fucking mind.

Think how stupid the average person is, then take a moment to realize that half of 'em are even stupider than that.

Trust me, I knew exactly what I was setting up for when I wrote that.

But if course. One of my favorite OG moments will always be everyone telling a different train analogy in unison.
 
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