SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[GamerSkull]

It may still refer to Aerith but once again, it’s something of a red herring in the original.

I will say though, small lines like that would never really be needed to be used as evidence unless there is a deficit elsewhere.

So the fact that it is used as evidence really just means that it is one of the few that sorta can be… even if it’s not as strong.

With Cloti evidence, we have much bigger more explicit scenes that can be used as evidence.

 

[Stiggie]

To be fair, often in these childhood friend and new girl in town love triangle setups, the childhood friend almost always is too afraid to change the status quo, because they are afraid of it potentially changing their relationship for the worse. The guy character in turn almost never actually felt any romantic feelings towards the childhood friend and the childhood friend had years to change that, but they never did. So then comes in the new girl who swoops the guys feet under and it's basically already over.

I've seen them setup like this so often that it's immediately easy to tell what the outcome is, and as much as i tend to enjoy the childhood friends in these more too like you do, it's just hopeless from the get go.

There are ofc some stories where the MC ends up realizing that the childhood friend was there to support them all along and do reciprocate the feelings, but the first scenario is where it usually goes.

That's not what I usually run into. What I run into usually is that the childhood friend and Main character are MADLY in love with each other but too afraid to make a move. And then a bunch of deus ex machina bullshit happens that means that the childhood friend is consistently screwed over until they finally make their move about 2 minutes after the MC has switched to being more in love with new girl.

Hell, I've seen anime where the childhood friend and main character are in love, where they kiss, and still not get together because they're still both essentially going "I wonder if they like me" afterwards.

As an example, the anime that gave me a depression. MC and childhood friend were madly in love. And all I could think during each scene where the childhood friend got anything was "I wonder how this will be taken away from her and given to the Tsundere #$*@^". They had a midnight walk in the forest where they had a lottery to determine who would go with who. Childhood friend gets to do the walk with MC, I think "that sounds too good to be true, lets see how she gets screwed over by the author". New girl sprains her ankle, mc goes to help her, they end up lost in the forest together instead.
Me, as I slowly feel my youthful optimist get replaced by the cynicism of a jaded adult: "fucking of course....there is no god". Eventually had to drop the show when it became too obvious that childhood friend was doomed. Just realized that it was starting to grate on my mental health to the point where I would be at work annoyed about it for like 8 hours on end where my thoughts just spiraled and spiraled into more negativity till my breath started feeling shallow. Decided to drop the show then and there and stopped watching any anime with a love triangle for a few years.

 

[Maidenofwar]

I mean I recently saw that some of the more extreme Cloti blogs was again saying Zack got cucked, I wish some wouldn't say this, and that wasn't used as part of the ship wars tag.

 

[GamerSkull]

I think they’re setting up for a Zerith reunion in Part 3, so it’s not that he got “cucked” and is really just there for slight drama.

 

[nars305]

I mean I recently saw that some of the more extreme Cloti blogs was again saying Zack got cucked, I wish some wouldn't say this, and that wasn't used as part of the ship wars tag.

I think on both sides *these kind of statements are reductive and childish. People are responsible for what they say but it’s another reason why I dislike the “war” in general SE may have unknowingly created. Just toxic.

 

[GamerSkull]

Hopefully Part 3 ends all of this for good.

 

[Yoru]

I had to circle back to this because I went back to rewatch the predictions. I didn’t know that last line is really used as a point that Cloud loves Aerith. The comments on the video were interesting.

It may still refer to Aerith but once again, it’s something of a red herring in the original.

I will say though, small lines like that would never really be needed to be used as evidence unless there is a deficit elsewhere.

So the fact that it is used as evidence really just means that it is one of the few that sorta can be… even if it’s not as strong.

With Cloti evidence, we have much bigger more explicit scenes that can be used as evidence.

Still thinking in Rebirth it can't be Aerith.

Cloud "finds" Sephiroth multiple times before her death. You can even tell it refers to Tifa because after the Gold Saucer you go to Gongaga, Cloud finds Sephiroth in the reactor, and Tifa is lost.

But no. It's not about the girls, it's about Cloud when he'll face the real Sephiroth to give him the black materia.

 

[Hellenic]

Cloud promising to take her on an airship one day.

I came to the realization recently that the reason this wasn't needed was probably because she DID get to experience flying on a plane this time around, even if not Highwind.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I'm gonna have to reference an old Reddit post for this because I honestly can't remember it's been that long since I've discussed it. There is prize called D type equipment in the museum. Is that the diving suit? It's considered to be a reference to the Unit 2 suit.

I can see why someone would draw similarities between them because both that and the suit in Eva are references to rather old diving suits.

The weapons I can see them as gundams too. Mechs in general were huge back then.

I mean, I'm sort of shocked S-E never got sued.

The Weapon Monsters In Final Fantasy VII Are Based On Gundam Suits

Some of the monsters in Final Fantasy VII are directly inspired by creatures from the Gundam franchise.

www.thegamer.com

This article has comparison pictures so you can see just how blatant it is.

Source:

https://www.reddit.com/r/evangelion/comments/1i23wl
https://www.reddit.com/r/evangelion/comments/1i23wl/_/cb0saim
Here is the only thread I can still find about it. But to be clear I think they're just little homages for fun in a time where the series was popular. I definitely don't think it ties in any big or any direct way to the story besides "Jungian Psychology and JudoChristrian Mysticism Is Super Cool" and beyond that the devs are nerds like me lol. Nomura definitely is especially when we see the lore he likes to put in KingdomHearts. Gnosticism is just super cool in Japan lol.

I mean I could absolutely see sneaking references in. Odin's other major attack is a reference to Lupin III after all.

And lol not sure if I should be encouraged on another 5000 thousand words thesis proposal about one of my favorite lore topics but I will consider it lol!

And yes will they won't they is definitely my jam romance wise as well as "impossible against the odds type of love" so like a villain with the heroine (Aeriseph) etc.

What are your thoughts on Ranma 1/2 and Uresai Yatsura since I saw mention of Inu-Yasha?

@LunarTarotGirl: The summon that redditor is referencing is Odin, and said summon references Norse myth with his spear. Said spear, Gungnir, was forged in the same competition that saw Thor's hammer Mjolnir created, and is said to never miss any target its thrown at. The clouds parting imagery is similar to the Spear of Longinus from Eva, though I should say similar imagery is kinda everywhere

Yeah, it's a question of whether or not the source is from Eva or another earlier instance because the clouds being forced apart to show power is a relatively frequent trope in action anime.

So we can say also the spear of longinus might also be a reference to legends of Odin too since Gnostic mysticism especially the one shown in Evangelion is a collection of religious beliefs around the world more than being just Judeo-Christian references. So people working on Evangelion could have come across such descriptions and thought Odin is cool let's do that. And oh no I'm doing it lol....so yeah.

Well, the spear of Longinus is in Christian mysticism the spear that was used by the soldier Longinus to stab Jesus and kill him faster and it is said to have some divine power as a result. I don't know of any Gnosticism that equates the two, myself.

But also I think the devs were just nerds. They worked on FF7 for a long time so things they liked probably made it in for fun when they were developing for long hours. But I can definitely see it as a homage.

What's funny too is the Evangelion community has discussions about Rebuild and Remake. Two nostalgic series remade with original lore but changed scenes so it's entirely possible they just like discussing similarities while the devs just thought it was funny.

It is. Personally I prefer basically everything else in Anno's catalog, especially his Shin series (Including the Cutey Honey movie he made)

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

I mean, I'm sort of shocked S-E never got sued.

The Weapon Monsters In Final Fantasy VII Are Based On Gundam Suits

Some of the monsters in Final Fantasy VII are directly inspired by creatures from the Gundam franchise.

www.thegamer.com

This article has comparison pictures so you can see just how blatant it is.


I mean I could absolutely see sneaking references in. Odin's other major attack is a reference to Lupin III after all.


What are your thoughts on Ranma 1/2 and Uresai Yatsura since I saw mention of Inu-Yasha?

That is all so cool!!! I love this stuff. And yeah the spear is Christian but I'm wondering if maybe there is a parallel with Odin somewhere because the new age Gnostic mysticism Carl Jung promoted for example does take from other beliefs. With Odin usually synonymous to God.

I didn't watch Uresai Yatsura. It's on my list though definitely. But I love Ranma 1/2. Akane and Ranma's back and forth was pretty fun and it was interesting because it's a case where both the love interests have equally strong personalities. Normally you have opposites where one is more passive but here they both are perfect match for eacother. And both were part of triangle with other people trying to win their affections. Both basically had their own seperate harem lol.

I liked it a lot.

As for Anno. I really love Kare Kano myself. I always find it so hilarious how he basically ended both anime in similar way: Running out of budget.

Edit: KareKano mention

 

[Eerie]

Doesn't this statement mean after the game ends? She definitely cried even in the OG when Aerith died if you had her in your party, so it couldn't be that. I assume it's just that she never cried over Aerith again past that point more so.

Right after Sephiroth took Aerith’s life, she had no time to grieve at all. There was sadness, but she channeled that sadness into anger and hatred toward their enemies. But now, the pain she felt when she visited this place tore her heart apart.

No, it is specified that since the moment Aerith was killed, Tifa couldn't cry for her.

 

[liuliuliu]

To be fair, often in these childhood friend and new girl in town love triangle setups, the childhood friend almost always is too afraid to change the status quo, because they are afraid of it potentially changing their relationship for the worse.

there used to be some jokes about this

For decades childhood friend always lose to the new girl. But there are one condition, when the childhood friend was separated from the MC for a really long time, and then they meet again one day, at this point the childhood friend is invincible- because she is the combination of the childhood friend and the new girl.

This always reminds me Tifa.

 

[Stiggie]

I can see why someone would draw similarities between them because both that and the suit in Eva are references to rather old diving suits.


I mean, I'm sort of shocked S-E never got sued.

The Weapon Monsters In Final Fantasy VII Are Based On Gundam Suits

Some of the monsters in Final Fantasy VII are directly inspired by creatures from the Gundam franchise.

www.thegamer.com

This article has comparison pictures so you can see just how blatant it is.


I mean I could absolutely see sneaking references in. Odin's other major attack is a reference to Lupin III after all.


What are your thoughts on Ranma 1/2 and Uresai Yatsura since I saw mention of Inu-Yasha?


Yeah, it's a question of whether or not the source is from Eva or another earlier instance because the clouds being forced apart to show power is a relatively frequent trope in action anime.


Well, the spear of Longinus is in Christian mysticism the spear that was used by the soldier Longinus to stab Jesus and kill him faster and it is said to have some divine power as a result. I don't know of any Gnosticism that equates the two, myself.


It is. Personally I prefer basically everything else in Anno's catalog, especially his Shin series (Including the Cutey Honey movie he made)

I always assumed there were a bunch of parallels between FFVII and Evangelion, but I could never convince myself to watch it to actually check how deep it went XD

 

[GamerSkull]

I’m always reminded of Godzilla franchise Kaiju when it comes to Weapon.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

Still thinking in Rebirth it can't be Aerith.

Cloud "finds" Sephiroth multiple times before her death. You can even tell it refers to Tifa because after the Gold Saucer you go to Gongaga, Cloud finds Sephiroth in the reactor, and Tifa is lost.

But no. It's not about the girls, it's about Cloud when he'll face the real Sephiroth to give him the black materia.

Yeah but this is once again a place where the OG Ultimania implies it could be losing Aerith or it could imply his identity. It outright references both of them. So you're supposed to initially think it's her then recontextualize it and think about it as you go on. I think it's everything. Cloud lost everything with his identity and Tifa's belief as the last straw.

So it can still come up in Rebirth.

Maybe they will tie this to Hollow. But in AC Sephiroth says "Tell me what you cherish most and he will take it away". This is a direct reference to that fortune and what is Cloud's answer? "There's not a thing I don't cherish." Meaning Everything. And we literally see his thoughts, everyone he cherishes. And so I think it makes sense to conclude that's the answer. That Cloud lost everything so he cherishes everything and I think makes sense. They're just showing that the final nail in the coffin was Tifa's belief in him which triggered him losing himself. So truly Everything at that point. But it was a long time coming he was losing everything as he went basically and it started at the beginning of his journey and culminated at the Northern Crater.

 

[abzy1200]

This isn't really exactly relevant to the references we are talking about (evangelion, weapons and kaijus etc.), but I only noticed how Clouds low polyganol model shares a striking resemblance to Teen Gohan from Dragon ball after someone on twitter pointed it out.


I mean, it was probably a coincidence, but still cool nonetheless!

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

I always assumed there were a bunch of parallels between FFVII and Evangelion, but I could never convince myself to watch it to actually check how deep it went XD

To save you the time. Not deep at all. I love them both but this is a case where they share similar themes such as Jungian psychology the idea of a persona and the id and references to the same mythology in their lore Gnosticism and Judeo-Christian beliefs. I mean they also have a love triangle that is narrative focused. It was solved in an unconventional way in Rebuild. But nothing more like in terms of story. Other media on the other hand like Xenoblade and HonkaiImpact though share a lot more.

Evangelion was just huge. A huge influence on a lot of anime and games.

 

[Yoru]

This isn't really exactly relevant to the references we are talking about (evangelion, weapons and kaijus etc.), but I only noticed how Clouds low polyganol model shares a striking resemblance to Teen Gohan from Dragon ball after someone on twitter pointed it out.
View attachment 15471

I mean, it was probably a coincidence, but still cool nonetheless!

His spiky hair is definitely a reference/homage/insipiration.

The colors were more about graphic issues (=detect the character easily in pre-rendered backgrounds)

That's why they used purple (not a color you see often in natural/urban environements) and yellow hair.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Back in high school my friends and I used to joke that the real reason Cloud is so strong was due to him being born as a SSJ2, for what it's worth

 

[abzy1200]

His spiky hair is definitely a reference/homage/insipiration.

The colors were more about graphic issues (=detect the character easily in pre-rendered backgrounds)

That's why they used purple (not a color you see often in natural/urban environements) and yellow hair.

Most likely yeah.

But like I said, still cool!

 

[nars305]

Still thinking in Rebirth it can't be Aerith.

Cloud "finds" Sephiroth multiple times before her death. You can even tell it refers to Tifa because after the Gold Saucer you go to Gongaga, Cloud finds Sephiroth in the reactor, and Tifa is lost.

But no. It's not about the girls, it's about Cloud when he'll face the real Sephiroth to give him the black materia.

You know, I really agree with you, based on that timing of it after GS and all. This is the first time we see Cloud really lose himself and let Sephiroth all the way in and fights like him. Then ultimately nearly kills Tifa.

 

[Rin]

I came to the realization recently that the reason this wasn't needed was probably because she DID get to experience flying on a plane this time around, even if not Highwind.

Yeah, this is 100% why but it would've been nice to have the moment there and then she gets to go and is happy/thanks him or something. Would've been cute nonetheless.

 

[Ryushikaze]

That is all so cool!!! I love this stuff. And yeah the spear is Christian but I'm wondering if maybe there is a parallel with Odin somewhere because the new age Gnostic mysticism Carl Jung promoted for example does take from other beliefs. With Odin usually synonymous to God.

I didn't watch Uresai Yatsura. It's on my list though definitely. But I love Ranma 1/2. Akane and Ranma's back and forth was pretty fun and it was interesting because it's a case where both the love interests have equally strong personalities. Normally you have opposites where one is more passive but here they both are perfect match for eacother. And both were part of triangle with other people trying to win their affections. Both basically had their own seperate harem lol.

I liked it a lot.

I think you'll like UY a lot, then. Ataru and Lum are very big personalities as are all their friends and rivals.

As for Anno. I really love Kare Kano myself. I always find it so hilarious how he basically ended both anime in similar way: Running out of budget.

Edit: KareKano mention

TV animation budgets are tiny.

there used to be some jokes about this

For decades childhood friend always lose to the new girl. But there are one condition, when the childhood friend was separated from the MC for a really long time, and then they meet again one day, at this point the childhood friend is invincible- because she is the combination of the childhood friend and the new girl.

This always reminds me Tifa.

I mean there are plenty of stories where childhood friends end up together, even in the era when "new girl new hotness" was it is peak, but those were often the ones where romance took a back seat.
Of course, lest we forget, the most famous love triangle in fiction is between a young man and two of his childhood friends.

This isn't really exactly relevant to the references we are talking about (evangelion, weapons and kaijus etc.), but I only noticed how Clouds low polyganol model shares a striking resemblance to Teen Gohan from Dragon ball after someone on twitter pointed it out.
View attachment 15471

I mean, it was probably a coincidence, but still cool nonetheless!

Plus Toriyama had just worked with a bunch of these peeps with Crono Trigger. I could absolutely see Nomura wanting to homage the man his own way.

Back in high school my friends and I used to joke that the real reason Cloud is so strong was due to him being born as a SSJ2, for what it's worth

I used to joke that Launch was secretly a Super Saiyan the entire time and never even realized.

 

[Hellenic]

They kept the "losing what you cherish most" prediction though, never understood that one.

Wasn't the whole thing that there is nothing Cloud doesn't cherish? At least it was something he brought up in AC iirc.

 

[Stiggie]

Wasn't the whole thing that there is nothing Cloud doesn't cherish? At least it was something he brought up in AC iirc.

It was, I still think its a weird prediction though