Most Powerful Hero/Villain

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
Yes, so he is still playing games. He is still "using" them.

It's not a "game" it's a war, and he gathered forces to help him fight it.


Because you like to ignore what Ultimecia and others are capable and say that Chaos pwns because he teh god.

Nope, because the game says he's the god.

Not really because you like to assume we are talking about watered down versions of the villains, which I am actually talking about villains at thier peaks.

No, that's your assumption. I've been discussing this as if we were talking about them at their strongest.

I only made the concession that they might be as strong as him in their final moments of truth in their game.

I'm sorry the conclusion that I've drawn is that a god of an entire universe > godlike beings on one planet.

But hey. I won't argue anymore. I'll stick with my opinion until I see definitive proof stating otherwise.
 

Buster Sword

Pro Adventurer
It's not a "game" it's a war, and he gathered forces to help him fight it.
Is he using them or not?
Nope, because the game says he's the god.
The empty title again, great argument.

No, that's your assumption. I've been discussing this as if we were talking about them at their strongest.
Like you assuming he is the most powerful because he's a god?
I only made the concession that they might be as strong as him in their final moments of truth in their game.
They are stronger because of what they are capable of, they aren't watered down. So yes, their feats > his.
I'm sorry the conclusion that I've drawn is that a god of an entire universe > godlike beings on one planet.
Don't apologise lol. And a few pages back you were screaming omnipotence. What has eh done again? oh wiat lol.
But hey. I won't argue anymore. I'll stick with my opinion until I see definitive proof stating otherwise.
Nothing was ever definitive, it's just that their feats have trumped his, whether you like it or not. And because of that, they have put their money where their mouth is.

Ok, heroes? :wacky:
 

Masamune

Fiat Lux
AKA
Masa
I have to ask why Chaos didn't summon Necron, if he's so infinitely powerful? That guy is immortal: 'I am eternal... ...as long as there is life and death..' Surely it would have made sense to scoop this guy out of the Zero World and send him into battle?
 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
Is he using them or not?

The empty title again, great argument.

Oh so it's empty because you say so? Ok.


Like you assuming he is the most powerful because he's a god?

No, because he's the god of chaos of the entire universe, and he's powerful enough to manipulate the beings you seem to think are stronger than him. He's manipulated time and space, and demonstrates a massive amount of power in the final battle.

They are stronger because of what they are capable of, they aren't watered down. So yes, their feats > his.

No, they're only stronger because you say so. There's nothing concrete you can put forward to definitively state that he's weaker.

Don't apologise lol. And a few pages back you were screaming omnipotence. What has eh done again? oh wiat lol.

I was not "screaming" omnipotence I only used the general description of the word "god".

Nothing was ever definitive, it's just that their feats have trumped his, whether you like it or not. And because of that, they have put their money where their mouth is.

Yet you still cannot state that he is weaker conclusively.


I have to ask why Chaos didn't summon Necron, if he's so infinitely powerful? That guy is immortal: 'I am eternal... ...as long as there is life and death..' Surely it would have made sense to scoop this guy out of the Zero World and send him into battle?

because they weren't popular enough? When it comes down to that, it's just who the creators wanted in the game.
 

Buster Sword

Pro Adventurer
I have to ask why Chaos didn't summon Necron, if he's so infinitely powerful? That guy is immortal: 'I am eternal... ...as long as there is life and death..' Surely it would have made sense to scoop this guy out of the Zero World and send him into battle?

Chaos is as powerful as he is intelligent.
 

Masamune

Fiat Lux
AKA
Masa
Yeah Dacon, I understand the selling point, but still - I think Chaos was afraid to get his fingers burnt. Necron was practically a god of his own anyway.
 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
If you try and fit it into the story, I guess you're right.
 

Buster Sword

Pro Adventurer
Oh so it's empty because you say so? Ok.




No, because he's the god of chaos of the entire universe, and he's powerful enough to manipulate the beings you seem to think are stronger than him. He's manipulated time and space, and demonstrates a massive amount of power in the final battle.



No, they're only stronger because you say so. There's nothing concrete you can put forward to definitively state that he's weaker.



I was not "screaming" omnipotence I only used the general description of the word "god".



Yet you still cannot state that he is weaker conclusively.


I have to ask why Chaos didn't summon Necron, if he's so infinitely powerful? That guy is immortal: 'I am eternal... ...as long as there is life and death..' Surely it would have made sense to scoop this guy out of the Zero World and send him into battle?

because they weren't popular enough? When it comes down to that, it's just who the creators wanted in the game.
I thought you were calling it quits? See, you're compelled, good night.
 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
Yeah, it's got nothing to do with you goading me into it.
 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
Sure you don't. Later.

So Masa, tell me.

What about Warrior of Light?

Where does he rank on your table?
 

Dark and Divine

Pro Adventurer
AKA
D&D
Well, The heroes seem to be very balanced compared to each other.

But I think Terra might have an advantage here, since she's half Esper and was able to burn 50 soldiers in a very short amount of time. Next would be Zidane, due to his Trance ability.

Other than that, the others seem to be at the same level.


As for the villains, I usually rank them by tiers:

Tier 1:

Exdeath

Ultimecia

Chaos

Reasons:

I consider Exdeath to be the most powerful ff villain to date, because of his control of the Void and, later, his fusion with it, giving birth to Neo Exdeath and granting him the power to destroy all existence.

Ultimecia comes right next to Exdeath, because she can control time to an extent and, after achieving the Time Compression, she was able to absorb all existence into herself.

Chaos, in the original Final Fantasy, didn’t seem very powerful, being just a demon possessing the combined powers of Lich, Tiamat, Kraken and Marilith.

But if Chaos was originally meant to be the almighty God of Dischord that he was in Dissidia, then he would be one of the most powerfull FF villains, along with Exdeath and Ultimecia

Tier 2:

Kuja, Sephiroth, Kefka and Sin.

Reasons:

Kuja gained enormous power after absorbing the souls in the Invicible and achieving his own Trance.

His Trance ability, Ultima, was able to leave Terra largely destroyed in a short amount of time.

In terms of raw destructive power, I would put him a little above the other villains in this tier, due to not only Ultima’s power, but also due to its speed.

Sephiroth possess the most powerful spirit/will in the planet, allowing him to go beyond the laws of Nature. He was also able to corrupt the Lifestream itself and create his own, achieving to an extent, what he wanted to achieve in FFVII.

Though we’re familiar with his physical prowess, we don’t know Sephiroth’s true power, but if the Negative Lifestream is similar in power to the portion of Lifestream that Aerith used to destroy Meteor, then Sephiroth would possess enough power to destroy a small planetoid like Meteor. Using this power against the Planet would probably cause a enormous wound on it, 2 to 3 times bigger than the Northern Crater.

Nevertheless, the Negative Lifestream can be used in many different ways. Sephiroth was using it to corrupt the normal Lifestream and corrode away the planet, and he used it to erect a barrier around Midgar so that no one could interfere with his battle against Cloud. There’s also the Shadow Creepers, who were spawned from the Negative Lifestream.

Kefka was able to absorb the power of the Warring Triad, becoming the God of Magic and providing him enough power to leave the entire planet in ruins.

His Light of Judgement was very powerful, being able to destroy entire towns and leave scars in the planet itself.

But being the God of Magic, Kefka also had all the magic in the world in his hands, and he was able to erect an enormous tower to serve as his base. He probably also created all the monsters that populate Kefka’s tower.

Ultimately, while Kuja has the upper hand in raw destructive power, Sephiroth and Kefka have the upper hand in the tenacity and versatility of their powers (Kefka due to his status as the God of Magic and Sephiroth due to his spirit/will and his own version of the Lifestream). All in all, they're equals.

Finally, we have Sin, a gigantic beast whose Giga Graviton scarred the planet in such a way that the damage was visible from outer space.



Level 3:

Emperor Mateus Palamecia

Vayne

Zemus


Reasons:

Emperor Mateus has a spirit/will that rivals Sephiroth’s. After his death, he was able to take control of Hell and Heaven (taking in consideration Soul of Rebirth) and return much more powerful than before. He possesses enormous magical power.

Vayne gained a lot of power after fusing himself with manufacted nethicite and with Venat, being able to destroy several airships with little effort-

Zemus is another being that possess a very powerful spirit, so powerful in fact that, after his death, his spirit formed a new very powerful being, Zeromus.


Level 4:

Golbez

Garland


Reasons:

Golbez is a very powerful mage, possessing high level spells and very strong physically, being able to survive almost uscathed from a Meteor spell.

Garland is a very strong knight, maybe stronger physically than most heroes and villains.


Since I haven’t played FFIII yet, I decided to leave Cloud of Darkness out of the list, mainly because I don’t know her abilities, besides the Particle Beam/Wave Cannon and that fact that she’s an embodiment of the Void/Nothingness.
 
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Buster Sword

Pro Adventurer
Well, The heroes seem to be very balanced compared to each other.

But I think Terra might have an advantage here, since she's half Esper and was able to burn 50 soldiers in a very short amount of time. Next would be Zidane, due to his Trance ability.

Other than that, the others seem to be at the same level.


As for the villains, I usually rank them by tiers:

Tier 1:

Exdeath

Ultimecia

Chaos

Reasons:

I consider Exdeath to be the most powerful ff villain to date, because of his control of the Void and, later, his fusion with it, giving birth to Neo Exdeath and granting him the power to destroy all existence.

Ultimecia comes right next to Exdeath, because she can control time to an extent and, after achieving the Time Compression, she was able to absorb all existence into herself.

Chaos, in the original Final Fantasy, didn’t seem very powerful, being just a demon possessing the combined powers of Lich, Tiamat, Kraken and Marilith.

But if Chaos were originally meant to be the almighty God of Dischord that he was in Dissidia, then he would be one of the most powerfull FF villains, along with Exdeath and Ultimecia

Tier 2:

Kuja, Sephiroth, Kefka and Sin.

Reasons:

Kuja gained enormous power after absorbing the souls in the Invicible and achieving his own Trance.

His Trance ability, Ultima, was able to leave Terra largely destroyed in a short amount of time.

In terms of raw destructive power, I would put him a little above the other villains in this tier, due to not only Ultima’s power, but also due to its speed.

Sephiroth possess the most powerful spirit/will in the planet, allowing him to go beyond the laws of Nature. He was also able to corrupt the Lifestream itself and create his own, achieving to an extent, what he wanted to achieve in FFVII.

Though we’re familiar with his physical prowess, we don’t know Sephiroth’s true power, but if the Negative Lifestream is similar in power to the portion of Lifestream that Aerith used to destroy Meteor, then Sephiroth would possess enough power to destroy a small planetoid like Meteor. Using this power against the Planet would probably cause a enormous wound on it, 2 to 3 times bigger than the Northern Crater.

Nevertheless, the Negative Lifestream can be used in many different ways. Sephiroth was using it to corrupt the normal Lifestream and corrode away the planet, and he used it to erect a barrier around Midgar so that no one could interfere with his battle against Cloud. There’s also the Shadow Creepers, who were spawned from the Negative Lifestream.

Kefka was able to absorb the power of the Warring Triad, becoming the God of Magic and providing him enough power to leave the entire planet in ruins.

His Light of Judgement was very powerful, being able to destroy entire towns and leave scars in the planet itself.

But being the God of Magic, Kefka also had all the magic in the world in his hands, and he was able to erect an enormous tower to serve as his base. He probably also created all the monsters that populate Kefka’s tower.

Ultimately, while Kuja has the upper hand in raw destructive power, Sephiroth and Kefka have the upper hand in the tenacity and versatility of their powers (Kefka due to his status as the God of Magic and Sephiroth due to his spirit/will and his own version of the Lifestream).

Finally, we have Sin, a gigantic beast whose Giga Graviton scarred the planet in such a way that the damage was visible from outer space.


Level 3:

Emperor Mateus Palamecia

Cloud of Darkness

Vayne

Zemus


Reasons:

Emperor Mateus has a spirit/will that rivals Sephiroth’s. After his death, he was able to take control of Hell and Heaven (taking in consideration Soul of Rebirth) and return much more powerful than before. He possesses enormous magical power.

Vayne gained a lot of power after fusing himself with manufacted nethicite and with Venat, being able to destroy several airships with little effort-

Zemus is another being that possess a very powerful spirit, so powerful in fact that, after his death, his spirit formed a new very powerful being, Zeromus.


Level 4:

Golbez

Garland


Reasons:

Golbez is a very powerful mage, possessing high level spells and very strong physically, being able to survive almost uscathed from a Meteor spell.

Garland is a very strong knight, maybe stronger physically than most heroes and villains.


Since I haven’t played FFIII yet, I decided to leave Cloud of Darkness out of the list, mainly because I don’t know her abilities, besides the Particle Beam/Wave Cannon and that fact that she’s an embodiment of the Void/Nothingness.
Pretty damn good imo.

And Dacon, I didn't actually mean I was going to sleep haha.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
No Final Fantasy villain is a dimensional god who's evil was capable of not just tearing their original world asunder, but the other dimensions of Final Fantasy as well. Because of Chaos, all the other dimensions of Final Fantasy got slammed into one, and that's the "world" Dissidia is. He wiped them all out.

Chaos is dischord. Entropy. The very nature of destruction. The very power of nothingness and disorder. He sits above all the other villains because of his power. He is a true god. Not a quasi-god like Sephiroth, or a false god like Kefka, but the true penultimate force of nothingness and chaos. He sits above it and yes, he even transcends time itself. Look at the original plot of Final Fantasy. Time means nothing to him. Chaos is the first and ultimately the strongest. That's what Dissidia shows, and it makes sense.

Ultimecia's Time Compression stunt only happened thanks to Ellone and her power. On her own she can only stop time for an instant, on a weaker scale. No villain can say they were able to not only destroy their own world but rip apart the worlds of other dimensions and bend them to his will in order to wage an existential war to reduce existence to nothing.
 
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Buster Sword

Pro Adventurer
No Final Fantasy villain is a dimensional god who's evil was capable of not just tearing their original world asunder, but the other dimensions of Final Fantasy as well. Because of Chaos, all the other dimensions of Final Fantasy got slammed into one, and that's the "world" Dissidia is. He wiped them all out.

Chaos is dischord. Entropy. The very nature of destruction. The very power of nothingness and disorder. He sits above all the other villains because of his power. He is a true god. Not a quasi-god like Sephiroth, or a false god like Kefka, but the true penultimate force of nothingness and chaos. He sits above it and yes, he even transcends time itself. Look at the original plot of Final Fantasy. Time means nothing to him. Chaos is the first and ultimately the strongest. That's what Dissidia shows, and it makes sense.

Ultimecia's Time Compression stunt only happened thanks to Ellone and her power. On her own she can only stop time for an instant, on a weaker scale. No villain can say they were able to not only destroy their own world but rip apart the worlds of other dimensions and bend them to his will in order to wage an existential war to reduce existence to nothing.
Still doesn't make him omnipotent or even close :monster:
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
There are no gods that are perfectly omnipotent in Final Fantasy, but, Chaos actually kinda is. Given the fact that he is in fact Garland and Chaos all at the same time. Considering he's even capable of seeing the memories and experiences of all those that have been absorbed and trapped into the discord, he has a sense of omnipotence and presence no other FF "god" has ever demonstrated. He's seen the beginning and all the memories that were lost. He's the closest thing to a Darkseid in Final Fantasy.

And Necron isn't a god either. Necron is a monster. A monster summoned and created by the fear of death of people. I doubt he's anything close to a god. Just a really old, and ancient monster from the beginning of existence.
 
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Buster Sword

Pro Adventurer
There are no gods that are perfectly omnipotent in Final Fantasy, but, Chaos actually kinda is. Given the fact that he is in fact Garland and Chaos all at the same time. Considering he's even capable of seeing the memories and experiences of all those that have been absorbed and trapped into the discord, he has a sense of omnipotence and presence no other FF "god" has ever demonstrated. He's seen the beginning and all the memories that were lost. He's the closest thing to a Darkseid in Final Fantasy.

There are s few true omnipotents in fiction imo, e.g. Beyonder, Lord of Nightmares, they haven't done everything possible, but they have feats to back up their omnipotence, such as busting multiverses, you know, that's the kinda scale I'd call omnipotence, even Mxyzptlk isn't omnipotent and he's over 9000

But Darkseid is nowhere near omnipotent either dude, and even at his peak xD Jobberseid haha.

I still think the likes of Necron and Ultimecia are more powerful, but that'st just me. :monster: Jesus I hate this smiely, get the wacky one sooner blacker.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Please quit the spamming, User Name. If you're gonna post here, post in regards to the discussion. If you want to talk about your favorites and what not, there's a thread for that in this very sub-forum.

Chaos *DID* bust and destroy the entire Final Fantasy multiverse. That's what I've been saying. Why do you think the Crystal World of FFIX is right next door to the moon of Final Fantasy IV? Chaos did that. He's made the world of Dissidia some strange, dimensional clusterfuck of worlds from every Final Fantasy because they were consumed by the Discord. Him. He fucked it all up to wage war against the Goddess of Harmony, Cosmos.

I don't understand why you're not getting that. Ultimecia can't do a worldwide Time Compression like she did in FFVIII because she doesn't have Ellone to manipulate. And if you think Necron is somehow stronger than Trance Kuja or any of the other villains that have actually been shown to do stuff other than appear right after the main villain in hopes of ambushing the party, then I have no idea what criteria you're looking for, because its inconsistent. Necron is just a monster. Period. He appeared because he felt Kuja's fear of death and wanted to kill.

And fine, consider Chaos, Lucifer of DC Comics. But his overall power and scale of evil reminds me of Darkseid for good reason.
 
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Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
I'd say Mageddon is a lot like Chaos.

Except it's not really what I'd call sentient. And it might be a little more powerful than Chaos.
 
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Buster Sword

Pro Adventurer
Please quit the spamming, User Name. If you're gonna post here, post in regards to the discussion. If you want to talk about your favorites and what not, there's a thread for that in this very sub-forum.

Chaos *DID* bust and destroy the entire Final Fantasy multiverse. That's what I've been saying. Why do you think the Crystal World of FFIX is right next door to the moon of Final Fantasy IV? Chaos did that. He's made the world of Dissidia some strange, dimensional clusterfuck of worlds from every Final Fantasy because they were consumed by the Discord. Him. He fucked it all up to wage war against the Goddess of Harmony, Cosmos.

I don't understand why you're not getting that. Ultimecia can't do a worldwide Time Compression like she did in FFVIII because she doesn't have Ellone to manipulate. And if you think Necron is somehow stronger than Trance Kuja or any of the other villains that have actually been shown to do stuff other than appear right after the main villain in hopes of ambushing the party, then I have no idea what criteria you're looking for, because its inconsistent. Necron is just a monster. Period. He appeared because he felt Kuja's fear of death and wanted to kill.

And fine, consider Chaos, Lucifer of DC Comics. But his overall power and scale of evil reminds me of Darkseid for good reason.

What makes you even think FF has a multiverse? Im talking people who bust thousands of universes on a WHIM. WHIM. Mxy does it for lols.

Yeah I do think Ultimecia is stronger, and Necron, what you gonna do about it? lol

He isn't on Moorningstar's level either, not even close.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
....Uh, the fact that it does? There's the fact you have Gilgamesh prancing around each Final Fantasy looking for Excalibur which he and FFXII describes as crossing dimensions through the Dimensional Rift of FFV. You have Dissidia clarifying this fact, and the entire storyline of Dissidia is the heroes trying to restore their dimensions and world back to normal so they can go back home.

Then you're wrong and making absolutely no sense. Because Ulitmecia's Time Compression can't do anything of that scale on its own, and can't even beat a human :monster: How the fuck is going to do anything to an immortal, and powerful god which controls time *and* space? :monster:

Necron doesn't do anything either. It's a *monster* from the Crystal World.
 

Buster Sword

Pro Adventurer
....Uh, the fact that it does? There's the fact you have Gilgamesh prancing around each Final Fantasy looking for Excalibur which he and FFXII describes as crossing dimensions through the Dimensional Rift of FFV. You have Dissidia clarifying this fact, and the entire storyline of Dissidia is the heroes trying to restore their dimensions and world back to normal so they can go back home.

Then you're wrong and making absolutely no sense. Because Ulitmecia's Time Compression can't do anything of that scale on its own, and can't even beat a human :monster: How the fuck is going to do anything to an immortal, and powerful god which controls time *and* space? :monster:

Necron doesn't do anything either. It's a *monster* from the Crystal World.

You do know dimensions can exist WITHIN a universe,right? Marvel/DC has thousands of universes, pocket verses, FF doesn't have that scale, if even a multiverse at all.

Nobody in FF is immortal, that's a fallacy, to say that, an omnipotent can't kill Chaos then, that's what makes no sense. Just because he can control, doesn't mean he can exist without it.

He has an epic tune, that's enough for me. GRAND CROSS MOFOER.
 
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