Naruto Anime/Manga (Manga Spoilers Not Tagged) [WSJ]

[X-SOLDIER]

A point well made with the artwork.

Also- that comic is also one of the first thoughts that I had about Kakashi tossing things into Tobi's dimension. XD WAY funnier in comic format.


X

 

[Roger]

Should also be noted that when Tsunade became Hokage, adding her face to the mountain wasn't exactly the first thing on the agenda, they had better things to do.

Maybe Konoha's prime Doton-user was killed in the Kyuubi attack?

 

[Theozilla]

http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/600
Chapter 600 is here!

 

[Dark and Divine]

OMFG to the last page!! What happened to

Spoiler: them

The Five Kages

for

Spoiler: him

Madara Uchiha

to be there?

 

[Alex Strife]

And what about

Spoiler

"the story is heading to its final climax"

?

Is it really going to happen? Are we that close to it? Because that means

Spoiler

this may end really soon

.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

For whatever reason I cannot shed the image of him burrowing over there like a mole, without the use of Ninjutsu. XD In all seriousness though, this is a VERY worrying development, and I wonder what sort of information we'll be learning about Obito and Madara's relationship next chapter on account of this.

Also- we at least get a little bit about Rin, and the fact that Obito's basically devoted himself to the idea of living in a Utopian dream world, away from everything that's gone wrong in his life.



X

 

[Roger]

If Rin dying is the reason he survived that wound, did Kakashi not even manage to protect her for the following 24 hours? That IS pretty pathetic, Kakashi, I gotta say.

 

[Alex Strife]

I think that's suppose to be taunting more than anything else. But I could be wrong.

 

[Drax]

For a second I thought that was Sasuke showing up instead of Madara. Then shit would have really gone down.

I'm expecting the Kages to eventually show up and be sports commentators for Naruto. Maybe one or two deaths, probably Raikage and Tsuchikage (him definitely).

I kinda like how they handled Obito wanting revenge on everybody. Instead of saying "NAO I'LL HAVE MY REVENGE," he's all "Hey guys, it's okay, I'll make everything better" and is starting to make Kakashi question whether what he's doing is right or not.

 

[Dumb Apple]

I took the whole he survived because Rin died a bit more figuratively - how he physically go out from underneath the rubble, and recovered is (?) amount of time. But what drove him to continue living once he learned that Rin had died was the idea that "this" reality wasn't worth living in anymore, so instead he'd create a new one where things were different.

Very Inception like, "in our dreams we're still together" type thing.

... I think it's sweet. :x

 

[Dark and Divine]

(...)

I'm expecting the Kages to eventually show up and be sports commentators for Naruto. Maybe one or two deaths, probably Raikage and Tsuchikage (him definitely).

(...)

I would also add Tsunade to the list of casualties. That way, the younger generation would take the place of the old one (Naruto suceeding Tsunade, Bee suceeding A and the Tsuchikage giving room to the new generation as a whole - has he have been preaching.

But it also feels a bit weird that Madara showed up. It was a bit sudden, and i don't think the Kages would let him escape so easily, even if they're are severely outmatched.

Which leads me to believe that this Madara might be a Wood Clone sent by the original one to supervise what's going on in this battlefield, and the real Madara is still facing the Kages.

Then again, it's Madara we're talking about. Even if he doesn't use his Final Susano'o out of his own way of fighting, he probably still has one or two world-shaterring Jutsu's up his sleeve

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I find it very contradictory of Obito to hang Rin's death over Kakashi only to say a few sentences later that this reality doesn't mater. Make up your mind dude!

Given that we haven't heard yet how Rin died, I'm not ready to say that Kakashi didn't try to protect her. Konoha was a war at the time so who knows how the team was split up after Obito "died".

As far as "the final climax" goes... "climax" is a very broad term in literary analysis. And by broad, I mean it could take us several arcs to get to the climax, not counting what happens after that. Given how many plotlines there are that have to be resolved, (and how thorough a job Kishimoto does at resolving them) I'm thinking we still have at least 75 - 100 chapters to go.

And Madara... him showing up right now is not a good thing. Although the part of me that wants to know how Obito survived was really happy because we'll probably get an explanation from him.

 

[Theozilla]

I find it very contradictory of Obito to hang Rin's death over Kakashi only to say a few sentences later that this reality doesn't mater. Make up your mind dude!

I think it is more that Rin's death contributed to Obito's disillusionment with the world rather than it being a revenge motivation, as Kakashi questioned Obito did not specifically blame Kakashi for it.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

I took the whole he survived because Rin died a bit more figuratively - how he physically go out from underneath the rubble, and recovered is (?) amount of time. But what drove him to continue living once he learned that Rin had died was the idea that "this" reality wasn't worth living in anymore, so instead he'd create a new one where things were different.

Very Inception like, "in our dreams we're still together" type thing.

... I think it's sweet. :x

I think it is more that Rin's death contributed to Obito's disillusionment with the world rather than it being a revenge motivation, as Kakashi questioned Obito did not specifically blame Kakashi for it.

You two sum it up nicely. Rin's death gave him the sort of hopelessness that motivated him to give up on the world entirely, and focus on creating an all-encompassing (Genjutsu) utopia. It "kept him alive" or "brought him back" depending on how you want to look at it. I'm sure that he harbored HUGE amounts of hatred for Kakashi, just as Kakashi still holds guilt about (their) deaths. Howevrer, Obito has essentially transcended those types of physical connections when he gave up his own identity in order to achieve the goals he's looking to accomplish. I'm sure that he feels that pain still, it's just eclipsed by the sense of purpose he feels in his current task.


Here're some more things I wanted to mention:

I thought that the flashbacks in the chapter worked well (even if it made it feel a little too short). It's especially well-constructed, because there're tons of giant boulders falling in both of them, which seems like it'd be a pretty big trigger for Kakashi, and is really appropriate for Obito's proper reappearance.

This storyline's final conflict may not be the same as the end of the ENTIRE story in the manga, especially since Sasuke & Orochimaru are off to something new. If someone can find a raw of the manga, I'll look over the original quote and see if I can offer an opinion.

Also, Naruto's just a TOTAL badass in Kurama Chakra Mode. Let's not let that go without mention.



Here's my big question about what's to come next week:

Are Obito and Madara really working towards the same end still? It's always felt like The Moon's Eye Plan was just a part of Obito's ambition, and Madara may be here to step in and change things, especially since he's A FUCKING IMMORTAL NOW he may not WANT to go live in a fantasy world, when his new lease on life is essentially a dream come true for him.

More than anything, I think that Madara HAS to show up, in order for the connection between Madara-Tobi and Obito-Tobi to finally be addressed. This feels like it's the point where we FINALLY get an unmasked looks at who was doing what behind the scenes that orchestrated all of these events in motion (The three points I mentioned earlier).

As far as whether he's a clone or not, it's hard to say, but it's pretty intense either way.



Lastly, here's a question that my buddy Paul & I were speculating about. It'd be cool to hear everybody's opinion on it.


What if the main war arc ends with the defeat of Tobi, and the villages re-consolidate in order to defend their own territories against Madara, like they used to have to do before the Biju were sealed. At that point, we skip forward ~6 months or so, and give everyone some time to mentally adjust to post-war life.

We were discussing how it feels like it's hard to judge the passage of age with the maturation of characters over the course of a manga, especially as the audience grows with it. Would this be an appropriate time to let some official promotions take place, let the younger generation OFFICIALLY take over some real roles in the village, let Sasuke solidify his new motivation, and set the stage for a slightly different type of conflict?



X

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Spoiler: Also, for the lulz...

(Best when read in an 80's sitcom voice).





X

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Are Obito and Madara really working towards the same end still? It's always felt like The Moon's Eye Plan was just a part of Obito's ambition, and Madara may be here to step in and change things, especially since he's A FUCKING IMMORTAL NOW he may not WANT to go live in a fantasy world, when his new lease on life is essentially a dream come true for him.

Very scary thought. Three way fight of Naruto and Co. vs. Obito vs. Madara? Yikes! Especially if Madara wins. Interesting how Orochimaru, Kabuto (and Sasuke?) probably know how to undo Edo Tensai. If he knows they're alive they'll be the first people on his hit list. Unfortunately (fortunately?) no one knows where they are or that they're even alive/dead? (in Orochimaru's/Kabuto's case).

Thought: Zetsu. and Yamato... these guys haven't been mentioned in a while. We still have to deal with them before this arc can be completed.

Lastly, here's a question that my buddy Paul & I were speculating about. It'd be cool to hear everybody's opinion on it.

What if the main war arc ends with the defeat of Tobi, and the villages re-consolidate in order to defend their own territories against Madara, like they used to have to do before the Biju were sealed. At that point, we skip forward ~6 months or so, and give everyone some time to mentally adjust to post-war life.

We were discussing how it feels like it's hard to judge the passage of age with the maturation of characters over the course of a manga, especially as the audience grows with it. Would this be an appropriate time to let some official promotions take place, let the younger generation OFFICIALLY take over some real roles in the village, let Sasuke solidify his new motivation, and set the stage for a slightly different type of conflict?

That would be cool. And yeah, you're right, one of the weaknesses of the manga medium is that it's hard to show the passage of time. That would be a good way to do it.

We'd also get half a dozen new plotlines given how Kishimoto's characters don't just do nothing during timeskips. But with the re-introduction of Madara and Orochimaru and Sasuke finally getting his head straightened out that's pretty much a given anyway.

 

[Drax]

Hearing some pretty good theories that Zetsu was used to revive Obito by taking his crushed half, taking it in and turning it into the black zetsu, then giving Obito his good half.

Would explain why Tobi loses limbs without flinching, referring to himself as nameless, why black and white zetsu sides have 2 personalities that talk to each other, etc. They've fused.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Thought: Zetsu. and Yamato... these guys haven't been mentioned in a while. We still have to deal with them before this arc can be completed.

I really can't possibly overstate how bothered/worried/anxious I am about still knowing jack shit about Zetsu. It's been bothering me FOREVER. Bringing up Yamato is another good observation, and one that I hadn't thought of.

Hearing some pretty good theories that Zetsu was used to revive Obito by taking his crushed half, taking it in and turning it into the black zetsu, then giving Obito his good half.

Would explain why Tobi loses limbs without flinching, referring to himself as nameless, why black and white zetsu sides have 2 personalities that talk to each other, etc. They've fused.

I had a very different take on this, but it's interesting to see other theories. I think that Black Zetsu is something completely unique, especially because of the ability that he possesses to record battles. I'm still of the opinion that Black Zetsu is a totally unique beast of some kind.

It's also worth noting that while Obito's right side was crushed, and his left side was fairly intact in its original form during Kakashi Gaiden, this was before the boulders completely collapsed on him.

In chapter 502, he sustains an injury to his left arm while battling Minato, causing it to start to break apart, and drips little fluidy tendrils of Senju-like biomatter, in addition to bleeding. Later, when facing off against Danzou in Chater 475, his arm gets contaminated by Torune, and he breaks it off before escaping. He replaces his arm in chapter 486 at the Lotus Flower made from Senju Hashirama's DNA (which we first see in chapter 512). In chapter 509 he loses his right arm again in the battle against Konan, when she blows it up while he's attempting to absorb her. Then in chapter 597, we finally get to see his full right arm is a patchwork of normal skin and pale Senju biomatter.

Spoiler: Image of all of Obito's Injuries as Tobi

While his right side/arm is most often the one that's shown to be damaged, this isn't always the case, so I doubt that Black Zetsu was formed from rescuing Obito, as it appears that more than just that side of him would have been replaced with Hashirama's biomatter. It's also worth noting that Danzou and Madara both show Hashirama's faces on their Senju tissue transplants. The Lotus Flower displays most of Hashirama, up to his torso, and it's clear that this object has a direct connection to the White Zetsu's biomatter, because implanting Yamato into it caused them to grow spines on their limbs, and get tougher.

All of the White Zetsu's biomatter comes from the same location and maintains a link with this structure, as shown when they gained increased strength/durability from Yamato's implantation into the Lotus. I assume that Hashirama's body growing from the Lotus flower prevents his face from appearing on the Zetsu, because they're all essentially sharing a single linked body, and the Lotus is an outlet for that side-effect.

While this may potentially affect/enhance Obito as well, it's still hard to say for sure, since we haven't seen his whole body, but his right hand to the elbow has been seen, and his shoulder doesn't appear to have Hashirama's face like Danzo did, but it may still be hidden like Madara's is. It also lacks any spikes like the Zetsu possess, even though it appears to come from the same source (as seen in chapter 486). Despite the lack of spikes, Obito takes a direct hit from Naruto's Rasengan, but his right arm didn't break off or deform like we've seen happen in previous battles. I'd assume that the reason for this is due to the fact that his Senju tissue was strengthened by Yamato's presence.


This DOES beg the question about the nature of Obito & Zetsu's partnership, and interconnection. It's clear that Zetsu would have known his true identity the entire time, and they've had a partnership since Tobi was introduced. I'm curious if Obito's personality is at all responsible for White Zetsu's often child-like persona. I'm also wondering if/when the Lotus will become a target to stop/weaken them.


...I'll keep thinking about this, but for now, I'm gonna drop in this post that I've been writing at work, and go home. XD



Oh- and if they do a timeskip, this would let the 12 main Konoha Shinobi form into 3 new Four Man Cells, since they'd have no teachers leading them. This would be my ideal setup:

• Naruto, Lee, Hinata, Sakura.
- Naruto & Lee perpetuating Kakashi & Gai's rivalry relationship (especially if one or both of their teachers falls during the war's climax). Naruto & Hinata feelings/relationship development. Lee & Sakura friend relationship development. Strong team from a character-specific point of view and provides some good room for development for everyone.

• Ino, Shikamaru, Choiju, Sai.
- Ino & Sai relationship development. Sai being an asset to a highly cohesive unit where he can take commands from Shikamaru, and where're his long-range and sealing jutsu fill a good niche.

• Neji, Kiba, Tenten, Shino.
- Close range, Mid-range, Long-range, AoE. Two older & two younger, two animal users & two non-animal users, two quiet & two talkative, two who went after Sasuke & two who were left out. Kiba fills in for Lee's antics. Also, they have a lot of different sensory types to make them tactically versatile.



X

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Nice idea for the four man cells.

My concern with what could happen during the timeskip involves the Uchiha massacre. Naruto, Kakashi, and Yamato are the only people who know what really happened. What are they going to do about that when they get back to Konoha? Danzou and Sarutobi are conveniently dead, but Sarutobi's aids/old team-mates aren't and they were in on the whole thing as well. Kinda have to wonder what Tsunade and the rest of the ninja are going to think when Naruto comes out and says that Uchiha massacre was planned. The implications change the relationship between the ninja (especially the clans) and leaders a ton. And if what really happened gets out to the rest of the ninja villages... that can't be good. Kinda wonder what Kiri would think of it with their whole bloodline war.

And then we have all of Root who is now without a leader. That's going to be complicated. As with the Uchiha massacre, it's going to change how the ninja view their leaders as Root was supposed to be disbanded, but it wasn't. I'm thinking the knee-jerk reaction of some people will be to cover it up, only we know by now that's the last thing that should be happening.

Ninja politics is crazy.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Nice idea for the four man cells.

Thank you!

My concern with what could happen during the timeskip involves the Uchiha massacre. Naruto, Kakashi, and Yamato are the only people who know what really happened. What are they going to do about that when they get back to Konoha? Danzou and Sarutobi are conveniently dead, but Sarutobi's aids/old team-mates aren't and they were in on the whole thing as well. Kinda have to wonder what Tsunade and the rest of the ninja are going to think when Naruto comes out and says that Uchiha massacre was planned. The implications change the relationship between the ninja (especially the clans) and leaders a ton. And if what really happened gets out to the rest of the ninja villages... that can't be good. Kinda wonder what Kiri would think of it with their whole bloodline war.

And then we have all of Root who is now without a leader. That's going to be complicated. As with the Uchiha massacre, it's going to change how the ninja view their leaders as Root was supposed to be disbanded, but it wasn't. I'm thinking the knee-jerk reaction of some people will be to cover it up, only we know by now that's the last thing that should be happening.

Ninja politics is crazy.

Well, there's also this: We know that Itachi met Madara and likely Obito in coordinating the event as well. On top of the fact that the event was internally plotted and orchestrated, there's also another side of who was involved with it, which I figure we'll learn a little bit about soon with Madara showing up with Obito.

I want to see Koharu & Homura get dealt with appropriately. I want Root's leadership to be addressed, and I want to see these types of internal affairs get brought up. That being said, I think that it'd be easier to cover the specifics in a sort of glance-back recap from a changed post-reform Konoha. A sort of "here's what we did over the last X months" which would allow for an easy explanation of new teams and roles and how they work in the current environment.


X

 

[Xinda]

http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/601/3

Spoiler

Looks like Tsunade'll save everyone and die doing it.

Though, it could have her survive, too, since somehow it makes it sound like there's a chance. Despite, apparently, being in halves.

Will not be happy if Tsunade's death is because of an off screen fight. Which is why I'm hoping she'll live after "healing" the others.

 

[Alex Strife]

Whoa there nelly. It's not wednesday yet! They sure are quick this week.

Spoiler

Indeed it looks like that. BUT I have to say she may not save everyone. Possibly one or two will save, thus reducing the Kages to half (no pun intended) their strength in numbers.

 

[Xinda]

Spoiler

Yeah. Probably not the older crowd and have the younger ones survive. At least, that's what I figure as well.

 

[Alex Strife]

Spoiler

That's what would make sense, right? Mizukage and Kazekage are who I think will survive. This could put Bee and Naruto in a good position to be Raikage and Hokage...

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Why are we talking in spoliers? *Looks at thread title*

Looks like X-SOLDIER was right about the old/young Madara thing. Yey! Flash-back chapters ahead.

What Madara said about Naruto being a kage bushin. Does this mean the real Naruto (and Karama) are in Kakashi/Obito's hammer-space? I'm liking the Madara/Obito dynamic. It looks like they have two separate plans running at the same time