Remake Interviews: Catch-all Thread

[Makoeyes987]

Hey I provided plenty of reasons why he can, doesn't seem as outlandish as plot ghosts to me.

I suppose it's a matter of expectations but something tells me a significant number would classify that as "substantially different."

Well, considering Nomura recently called Cloud, Sephiroth, and Zack the three most important FFVII characters...

They most certainly are.

And I don't see Genesis among those three.

You have no imagination sir. Genesis was more or less recruited by the Planet. Now he can BE the hero he always wanted to be, and against the guy he hates so much too! Funny how that works out.

My imagination certainly isn't lacking. I can imagine all sorts of disastrous possibilities in record time. The key here is likelihood. Why would Genesis be involved in the personal and deeply rooted conflict between Cloud and Sephiroth? Thematically and narratively speaking, this is their conflict and personal grudge. Genesis isn't Sephiroth's rival. Not anymore. That Sephiroth is dead and is part of the past.

That's some really sound lore-based logic, wow. I am blown away.

Total Doylistic perspective and answer, I know, but that's what it ultimately comes down to. Sephiroth's the main villain of the story. He's the core of almost every conflict. Of course they'll write him to do new and unprecedented things to jumpstart the plot. Why would Genesis be afforded the same thing when he carries 1/10th the same level of narrative weight? Why would Genesis be given this level of importance?

Because he wears Gackt's face? Because of a secret ending movie with Gackt that served as a stinger to lead into Crisis Core? That's it?

 

[Ryeleigh]

So the Remake can be "substantially different" and still be the same thing, while simultaneously not "straying from the original", and "keeping it's toe inside the line it doesn't cause players to feel the story's very premise has changed."

Just to be fair, canon aus do exist and what I've learned from canon aus is that you can have the same characters, basically the same character arcs, the same world, hit the same story beats, and still be "substantially different".

Interestingly, whomever translated this changed "jack of all trades" (or maybe more literally, "one-stop-shop-for-everything") to "mercenary".

Tbh, this is one of my pet peeves when people have an obstinate effort to hate Zack; they take the "mercenary" thing literally. Like he's going to be a soldier for hire in wars or something, lol. Even though what they really mean with it is just a "jack of all trades". It's not just limited to "mercenaries" either, it's also "rangers" or "shinobi" or what have you, and what it boils down to in practice is basically a cool-sounding handyman who occasionally does the odd job of taking care of monsters around the neighbourhood.

 

[Odysseus]

I suppose it's a matter of expectations but something tells me a significant number would classify that as "substantially different."

I would classify the giant destiny monster we beat up as more substantially different than a pre-established character with obvious motivations appearing imo. Alive Zack is comparable.

They most certainly are.

And I don't see Genesis among those three.

He's a pretty big supporting character in Zack's story lol.

...

So you're saying Zack joining the party has a chance

The key here is likelihood. Why would Genesis be involved in the personal and deeply rooted conflict between Cloud and Sephiroth?

Why are all these other random assholes and a talking cat robot involved? Because they have their own goals and motivations. You're assuming he'd be the star if he showed up, which I don't think would be the case. I think he'd be a secondary antagonist at certain parts, such as if they visit Banora. Hell, maybe he'd only be in Zack's offshoot if that's a thing!

Thematically and narratively speaking, this is their conflict and personal grudge. Genesis isn't Sephiroth's rival. Not anymore. That Sephiroth is dead and is part of the past.

As I said, the thematic purpose would have him be something like a representative of the Planet. You have Sephiroth representing Jenova and himself, Genesis representing the planet, and Cloud and co. representing humanity I guess. Just spit-balling here.

Total Doylistic perspective and answer, I know, but that's what it ultimately comes down to. Sephiroth's the main villain of the story. He's the core of almost every conflict. Of course they'll write him to do new and unprecedented things to jumpstart the plot. Why would Genesis be afforded the same thing when he carries 1/10th the same level of narrative weight? Why would Genesis be given this level of importance?

Because the writers like Crisis Core and they like Genesis? Nojima wrote both games after all. Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, Before Crisis... it's all FF7 to them, even if fans don't always agree lol. If they want him there he'll be there. He has motivation to be there and about as much handwavy logic for how to get there as Sephiroth does. Again, he'd be a secondary antagonist not a main character. You won't see him at the beach in Costa del Sol or playing at the Gold Saucer lol. He'd serve to showcase how grand the scale of the conflict has become. All big players on the table, and our gang of weirdos in the middle of it all.

 

[Leafonthebreeze]

@KindOfBlue @Odysseus and whoever else.

Found it, it's the Gamespot interview, @cold_spirit posted it in the other thread here. Not sure where the original source is though and I'm a bit to covid-brained to go hunting.

As I said, no idea of the source, ask @cold_spirit but this is what Mako's referring to in relation to Dirge. Not making stuff up, although maybe twitter is. It really was only a page back tho.

 

[Odysseus]

Yeah I think some speculation on twitter got passed off as a part of the interview lol. No worries.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I would classify the giant destiny monster we beat up as more substantially different than a pre-established character with obvious motivations appearing imo. Alive Zack is comparable.

They're Weapons. Ethereal Kaiju protecting the planet's spacetime are still Weapons.

And yes, Zack is alive. For now.

He's a pretty big supporting character in Zack's story lol.

See that qualifier you used? That's what I'm talking about. That's why he's not one of the key central characters. Yes, he was the antagonist in Zack's story. Which is over.

So you're saying Zack joining the party has a chance

Eh, temporarily? It's possible. The likelihood is more than zero, yes. I don't think he will, but it's possible he could show up at a certain key moment that would be climactic to the story. But joining the party permanently would be a stretch and completely absurd.

As I said, the thematic purpose would have him be something like a representative of the Planet. You have Sephiroth representing Jenova and himself, Genesis representing the planet, and Cloud and co. representing humanity I guess. Just spit-balling here.

And why would this be necessary? Why would a stand-in for the Planet even be present when the Weapons already exist for this purpose and they only served as glorified kaiju enemies who spread chaos and mayhem after Sephiroth cast Meteor, all in a vain attempt to stop him and all threats to the planet?

Because the writers like Crisis Core and they like Genesis? Nojima wrote both games after all. Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, Before Crisis... it's all FF7 to them, even if fans don't always agree lol. If they want him there he'll be there. He has motivation to be there and about as much handwavy logic for how to get there as Sephiroth does. Again, he'd be a secondary antagonist not a main character. You won't see him at the beach in Costa del Sol or playing at the Gold Saucer lol. He'd serve to showcase how grand the scale of the conflict has become. All big players on the table, and our gang of weirdos in the middle of it all.

Citation needed. Since when do the writers
like Genesis in a unique or memorable fashion?

They like Cloud. They like Zack. They like Sephiroth.

They're featured prominently in numerous works. Where in the world did they say or feature Genesis like them?

Yeah, the writers love the Compilation and their work, but we can look at Nero and Weiss for precedent. Are they now suddenly the new villains of this story? Were they shoehorned into the plot or did they get carefully crafted within the proper instance of the story where they would best fit according to the overachieving narrative? And then moved on from once their part was played?

And they're just as big, if not bigger than Genesis.

 

[Odysseus]

They're Weapons. Ethereal Kaiju protecting the planet's spacetime are still Weapons.

And yes, Zack is alive. For now.

And Genesis is basically shittier Sephiroth.

See that qualifier you used? That's what I'm talking about. That's why he's not one of the key central characters. Yes, he was the antagonist in Zack's story. Which is over.

But Zack is a key character in FF7 Rebirth, as was recently said, so his story is in fact not over. Also Genesis already appeared in Dirge, long after Zack died, so his presence is not contingent on Zack.

Eh, temporarily? It's possible. The likelihood is more than zero, yes. I don't think he will, but it's possible he could show up at a certain key moment that would be climactic to the story. But joining the party permanently would be a stretch and completely absurd.

For the record that was a joke and I'm not looking to rekindle this particular discussion at this time. We can wait until the next trailer for that lol.

And why would this be necessary?

We're reaching "I don't know I'm not writing this game" territory here lol.

Why would a stand-in for the Planet even be present when the Weapons already exist for this purpose and they only served as glorified kaiju enemies who spread chaos and mayhem after Sephiroth cast Meteor, all in a vain attempt to stop him and all threats to the planet?

My guess would be that whatever the bad man is up to this time warrants more intervention than the last time. I assume Genesis would be set up via Zack's flashbacks before making a surprise appearance at a pivotal moment. Weapons probably won't appear until the final game so the two concepts wouldn't overlap if he appears in Rebirth.

Citation needed. Since when do the writers
like Genesis in a unique or memorable fashion?

They fucking made him?? He's a piece of FF7 still sitting unresolved on the table and they would probably like to resolve his story??

They like Cloud. They like Zack. They like Sephiroth.

God fucking DAMN, I can't believe they included all these other other characters besides those three then. Fuck.

They're featured prominently in numerous works. Where in the world did they say or feature Genesis like them?

Why do I need to provide proof for this lol.

Yeah, the writers love the Compilation and their work, but we can look at Nero and Weiss for precedent. Are they now suddenly the new villains of this story? Were they shoehorned into the plot or did they get carefully crafted within the proper instance of the story where they would best fit according to the overachieving narrative?

Weiss and Nero were resolved, Genesis was not. He's still active and unaccounted for. And I gave you a reason why he'd be involved that makes sense within established rules. Given Dirge's secret ending, I'd expect Weiss to be involved with his return as well. He's near Deepground in an underground cavern, and I'm betting more on a consciousness transfer than physical time travel, so he'd probably pass by lol.

And they're just as big, if not bigger than Genesis.

Not to anyone but us Dirge-heads lol.

 

[Makoeyes987]

And Genesis is basically shittier Sephiroth.

So why would we need him?

We're reaching "I don't know I'm not writing this game" territory here lol.

Fair enough, but I do think it's a fair question why we need a Genesis shaped Weapon from the future. That's just a big deal to me!

Why do I need to provide proof for this lol.

Because you said they "love" him. As if that's somehow unique or indicative of special treatment or focus.

They fucking made him?? He's a piece of FF7 still sitting unresolved on the table and they would probably like to resolve his story??

They like a lot of characters, Ody. Are they coming through a time tunnel from the future too??

Weiss and Nero were resolved, Genesis was not. He's still active and unaccounted for. And I gave you a reason why he'd be involved that makes sense within established rules. Given Dirge's secret ending, I'd expect Weiss to be involved with his return as well. He's near Deepground in an underground cavern, and I'm betting more on a consciousness transfer than physical time travel, so he'd probably pass by lol.

See that's what I'm talking about.

Genesis wasn't "resolved?"

According to whom?

You think a stinger secret movie scene from 2006, which was made to promote Crisis Core, has all this weight when it's nothing. It's just that. A movie meant to lead into and hype Crisis Core. There's nothing there!

Consciousness transfer? I mean, I guess? You're right. They can do anything, but I feel pretty confident that they are not giving that scene nearly as much thought as so many Genesis superfans seem to.

This is almost like fixation. That isn't some great unresolved plot. They said so in the Crisis Core Ultimania. It was stinger meant to lead to CC and subvert the expectations of the audience. That's all.

Not to anyone but us Dirge-heads lol.

 

[Roundhouse]

Genesis went to sleep and prepared to return for a 'future crisis'. The remake is the final part of the entire compilation. There is no other future crisis but this one, where Sephiroth has somehow gained even more powers including the ability to create time portals. Genesis is returning, and nothing will forestall it.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The "future crisis" is the one in your imagination.

That was a statement to explain and contextualize his meeting with Minerva and why he chose not to actually help his fellow SOLDIERs freeing themselves within Deepground. Why do you think a statement from 2007 somehow translates into the key motivation or understanding of the Remake? You really think THAT'S the guiding principle of this project?

A Gackt cameo?

 

[Odysseus]

So why would we need him?

We're here now Mako, we're here now lol. I would totally upend Crisis Core's story if I could.

Fair enough, but I do think it's a fair question why we need a Genesis shaped Weapon from the future. That's just a big deal to me!

Because he can have more of a voice than a giant rampaging monster and sort of serve as a counterpoint to Sephiroth as such.

They like a lot of characters, Ody. Are they coming through a time tunnel from the future too??

Elfe and all the BC Turks could appear in the present day lol.

Genesis wasn't "resolved?"

According to whom?

You think a stinger secret movie scene from 2006, which was made to promote Crisis Core, has all this weight when it's nothing. It's just that. A movie meant to lead into and hype Crisis Core. There's nothing there!

The friggin guy woke up, according to a book written like two years afterwards, because of an "impending crisis to the planet". Are you not at all curious to know what that was? Genesis appearing was in the short term a CC teaser, but that doesn't mean him appearing in-universe years later doesn't matter lol. You're clearly no SE fan if you think they wouldn't pick up a thread from years and years earlier lol.

Consciousness transfer? I mean, I guess? You're right. They can do anything, but I feel pretty confident that they are not giving that scene nearly as much thought as so many Genesis superfans seem to.

It's what Aerith is doing kind of so it seems more plausible to me.

This is almost like fixation. That isn't some great unresolved plot. They said so in the Crisis Core Ultimania. It was stinger meant to lead to CC and subvert the expectations of the audience. That's all.

"Another Side, Another story" was a CG trailer for KH2 in 2002 that ended up being much more relevant to 358/2 Days in 2009. Just because it was made for one reason doesn't mean it's irrelevant to other things.

 

[Roundhouse]

I don't think he's going to take over the narrative or anything, or be hugely significant, but it's really not unreasonable to predict him returning to aid them in this final crisis.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I beg to differ. He can return as a combat simulator boss or even a cameo as a shade via the Whispers like other future enemies.

But I don't get this idea Genesis literally woke up in year 0010 just time travel to year 0007 to somehow insert himself into FFVII.

WHY DIDNT HE JUST WAKE UP THEN?

He was THERE. Just asleep. Do you realize how insane that is??

 

[Roundhouse]

 

[Tetsujin]

WHY DIDNT HE JUST WAKE UP THEN?

didn't set the alarm, whoopsie

 

[KindOfBlue]

@KindOfBlue @Odysseus and whoever else.




As I said, no idea of the source, ask @cold_spirit but this is what Mako's referring to in relation to Dirge. Not making stuff up, although maybe twitter is. It really was only a page back tho.

Yeah I didn’t think it was made up, I know there was another quote about no current plans to remaster BC or DoC but this particular quote seems to describe specifically DoC in the context of remake

 

[Makoeyes987]

Elfe and all the BC Turks could appear in the present day lol.

See, but the difference is, is that Elfe and the BC Turks are out in the world. They exist outside and have freedom to move.

Genesis is asleep below Midgar. He is sleeping. So why would he wake up when the whole crux of his existence is he's a huge secret who chose to seal himself away after getting bodied by Zack and wanting to turn away from Deepground?

The friggin guy woke up, according to a book written like two years afterwards, because of an "impending crisis to the planet". Are you not at all curious to know what that was? Genesis appearing was in the short term a CC teaser, but that doesn't mean him appearing in-universe years later doesn't matter lol. You're clearly no SE fan if you think they wouldn't pick up a thread from years and years earlier lol.

That was Omega!

Omega woke him up.

And Omega is done. So why would there be another crisis? If the writers want to make a new story post Dirge of Cerberus, then they're more than welcome to use Genesis in that capacity.

But we're in year 0007 now. Genesis slept through that. Why would he need to time travel to the past when he could've just woken the hell up?

"Another Side, Another story" was a CG trailer for KH2 in 2002 that ended up being much more relevant to 358/2 Days in 2009. Just because it was made for one reason doesn't mean it's irrelevant to other things.

Okay and that movie was the conceptual trailer for the sequel, KH2. Of course that was important. That was meant to be the next game.

There is no other game after Dirge of Cerberus. That's where the Compilation chronologically ended. Unless they make a new game that takes place further into the future, that is over. There's no other game past DC in the Compilation. Except maybe Ever Crisis. Because that's in the Compilation.

Maybe they'll do something with Genesis there!

 

[ForceStealer]

to predict him returning to aid them in this final crisis.

Lines like this are why I think you just started trolling people about Genesis, couldn't stop, and accidentally convinced yourself that you like him, lol. Why would he be on OUR side?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Lines like this are why I think you just started trolling people about Genesis, couldn't stop, and accidentally convinced yourself that you like him, lol. Why would he be on OUR side?

That's EXACTLY what happened and I'm glad someone FINALLY SAID IT! LOL Thank you!

 

[Roundhouse]

Oh, I don't actually like Genesis. I mean he's okay, I guess? I don't have a strong love or hate for him.

As for him being on our side, because he's hopefully learned his lesson after CC and becomes a true hero! But if he's still a villain, sure, that would be fun too.

 

[Roundhouse]

I normally argue that Genesis is returning, which doesn't equal actually liking him. Usually when I try and 'praise' him it is so obviously ludicrous* that I'd hope people can catch the tongue in cheek tone.

* https://thelifestream.net/forums/th...e-to-see-him-handled.22949/page-6#post-927266

 

[Makoeyes987]

Genesis was okay in CC, but he's nowhere near capable of carrying a large story as the villain like Sephiroth can. He served as an effective foil to Zack. And that's all he can do.

Like, there's a reason he's a prototype of the Jenova Project. And Sephiroth is the perfect monster from it. Like, I don't hate Genesis, but I also don't pretend he's somehow this great character on par with Sephiroth as an antagonist. He's lacking in numerous ways that I think everyone who's not a Genesis superfan can see.

Hell, his design and concept artwork from DC was way cooler than how he actually looked in CC, and he carried far more menace in that one artwork than he actually ever manifested in his actual game. He doesn't carry that bite or menace in CC and he just can't. His character is too grounded in petulant jealousy, spite and desperation to save his own life.

So him taking any distracting role in the Remake is like... So bizarre to me. Especially time traveling from the future to do it.

 

[Roundhouse]

If I'm 100% serious, I didn't even have any big reaction to Genesis after playing CC. He was the antagonist, and that was that. What made a WAY bigger impression on me was that the fanbase loathed him, so it really is funny to tease them about him coming back. Some of that probably has actually made me more fond of him than I was before, but nah, definitely not a legit big fan or anything.

Genesis coming back in remake, if I actually take this idea seriously, would be brilliant ONLY for the fan reaction. In terms of the game itself, I don't think it would do much for it -- he's obviously not needed in this narrative. Maybe it would be fun to see him back somehow at the very end though, for the big Seph battle.

 

[ForceStealer]

Yeah I don't actually feel strongly about him either (at least, I didn't...lol). His appearance would represent further distractions from the plot I want to see, of course, but also: assuming they do still want this game to flow into the sequels, bringing him in in a significant way is going to have the feel of recent Star Wars midquels. Where we take the toys out of the drawer and bang them into each other for a few hours and then make sure to contrive them back into the drawer just so, so we can pretend the later bits still make sense

 

[Makoeyes987]

In terms of the game itself, I don't think it would do much for it -- he's obviously not needed in this narrative.

WOW. We actually agree on something! Thank you for that honesty.

THANK YOU.

Some actual real talk. Amazing.