So is Sephiroth the strongest dude in FF7 or what

[Makoeyes987]

As I said earlier in the thread - search on YouTube, I promise you for every final boss in the series, you'll find someone insane/good enough to fight and defeat them with a single character. :p

Good point

 

[Roger]

I know they have names, but to my knowledge they were parts of Kefka. You stand in front of Kefka, say it's over, the fight starts, these guys are in the screen.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

As I said earlier in the thread - search on YouTube, I promise you for every final boss in the series, you'll find someone insane/good enough to fight and defeat them with a single character. :p

gameplay/etc

First, who really cares?

Cop out answer, man. You can't just dismiss a complaint about the setting/consistency as WHO REALLY CARES??? I do, at least enough to call them out on it.

Second, why is it beyond the scope of believability that the heroes would also be in turn, stronger as well? Did that ever cross your mine as a possibility as to why they're able to now fight with their villains one-on-one as well?

Well, why are the heroes suddenly so powerful enough to fight their foes one on one? Was that explained in Dissidia? If it was, that's fair.

It's the same reason Cloud was able to hold his own against Sephiroth in ACC in the first place, and you were more than able to accept and argue the fact of his sword prowess within that department too.

Like I said, I though, and think, AC(C) was and is stupid. However it's not completely unsalvagable, and Cloud and Sephiroth fighting one on one is more believable because they're both stronger and time has elapsed between their last battle. The other FF heroes/villains have no such thing. Terra and Kefka, or Squall and Ultimecia didn't have any timeskip where Squall or Terra could 'catch up'. They're both fighting as is.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I know they have names, but to my knowledge they were parts of Kefka. You stand in front of Kefka, say it's over, the fight starts, these guys are in the screen.

That would of course make you think of that, it's an understandable misconception. But if you pay attention to the bestiary, they all have different names and are not part of Kefka's actual final boss entry.

Furthermore, notice how after you beat them, Kefka himself swoops down from the heavens, to face you himself. He wasn't actually apart of the connected tier/tower of villains you actually defeated. He was above you, looking down as you fight. It's only until you kill them all that Kefka decides to fight you himself.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Furthermore, notice how after you beat them, Kefka himself swoops down from the heavens, to face you himself. He wasn't actually apart of the connected tier/tower of villains you actually defeated. He was above you, looking down as you fight. It's only until you kill them all that Kefka decides to fight you himself.

To be fair though, fighting 'aspects' or 'parts' of god like entities isn't unheard of. In Breath of Fire IV, you had to fight different parts of Fou Lu (and they all had different names) in the final battle three times because he's a god and he can not only be in more than one place at one time, but he can be more than one thing at one time.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well, why are the heroes suddenly so powerful enough to fight their foes one on one? Was that explained in Dissidia? If it was, that's fair.

I ask "who cares" because it's such an unnecessary and arbitrary pigeonholing of the characters.

Do you think the characters would just stop growing and getting stronger in terms of their fighting ability? Don't you think that after their adventures while being thrust into an eternal cycle of conflict, they'd actually be getting stronger? None of the heroes of FF are ordinary people, at all.

Like I said, I though, and think, AC(C) was and is stupid. However it's not completely unsalvagable, and Cloud and Sephiroth fighting one on one is more believable because they're both stronger and time has elapsed between their last battle. The other FF heroes/villains have no such thing. Terra and Kefka, or Squall and Ultimecia didn't have any timeskip where Squall or Terra could 'catch up'. They're both fighting as is.

Bullpies. It doesn't matter. You've argued how its perfectly acceptable that Cloud is a better swordsman and fighter in AC, and capable of killing Sephiroth since he was a natural genius with a sword. That Cloud was a better fighter. Now you're saying its stupid?

And the heroes didn't catch up? I don't ever remember Squall being able to run up walls and shit, or having an attack called "Revolver Drive" or "Aerial Circle" or any of the new shit he's able to pull in Dissidia. Nor do I remember Terra having innate "Doublecast" to tie into her knowledge of every high-tier spell imaginable. They're hardly "as-is" at all in Dissidia. Every character has new abilities along with their old ones.

 

[Makoeyes987]

To be fair though, fighting 'aspects' or 'parts' of god like entities isn't unheard of. In Breath of Fire IV, you had to fight different parts of Fou Lu (and they all had different names) in the final battle three times because he's a god and he can not only be in more than one place at one time, but he can be more than one thing at one time.

They may be "aspects" or "parts" but they aren't him proper. Kefka isn't attached to that tower of monsters you fight. He isn't literally those creatures. So they wouldn't be considered part of his ultimate form.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I think what's being said is that Kefka is a God, he wouldn't *have* to be attached to that tower to be those creatures. He's a God of Magic, he can do whatever he likes. Why can't he craft lesser monsters in his own image and fight the party through them?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Do you think the characters would just stop growing and getting stronger in terms of their fighting ability? Don't you think that after their adventures while being thrust into an eternal cycle of conflict, they'd actually be getting stronger? None of the heroes of FF are ordinary people, at all.

What are you talking about, man? I'm talking about how Cloud actually got time to get stronger in between the end of FFVII and AC, and had a better leg to stand on to fight Sephiroth one on one as opposed to the help of his friends like before. None of the other FF heroes got sequels (except for Cecil) to have that luxury of getting more powerful over time. Their original games and their power displayed in those are the only installments we see them in. That's why it's easier to accept Cloud taking on Sephiroth in AC.

Also, I think the 'eternal conflict' and the silly little story they put in Dissidia is pretty stupid as well.

Bullpies. It doesn't matter. You've argued how its perfectly acceptable that Cloud is a better swordsman and fighter in AC, and capable of killing Sephiroth since he was a natural genius with a sword. That Cloud was a better fighter. Now you're saying its stupid?

I think AC was stupid and a pretty bad movie to begin with, but I tried to defend at least some of it. Like I said above, Cloud/Sephiroth was an easier fight to defend because they both got stronger in between FFVII and AC.

And the heroes didn't catch up? I don't ever remember Squall being able to run up walls and shit, or having an attack called "Revolver Drive" or "Aerial Circle" or any of the new shit he's able to pull in Dissidia. Nor do I remember Terra having innate "Doublecast" to tie into her knowledge of every high-tier spell imaginable. They're hardly "as-is" at all in Dissidia. Every character has no abilities along with their old ones.

I am willing to accept that they're able to take on their foes in Dissidia because they got some new powers by Cosmos or whatever. Is this the case? I asked you this before. Where did their new abilities come from?

 

[Roger]

Yes they did. It's on the front page of our site.

And it's not stupid dude. It's fantasy. It's fighting. Again. You seem to be pigeonholing the abilities of the characters, when the creators are under no such misgivings of their powers, at all. No one cried about it being stupid that Cloud was facing off against a stronger version of Sephiroth mono-a-mono and able to win with holes in his chest, so why the hell is it an issue now? Cloud's not the only strong hero in Final Fantasy.

Terra is for one, not just a mortal. She's not even fully human. She's an Esper hybrid.

No one? You have any idea how much time I have spent defended this?

First, who really cares?

Second, why is it beyond the scope of believability that the heroes would also be in turn, stronger as well? Did that ever cross your mine as a possibility as to why they're able to now fight with their villains one-on-one as well?

It's the same reason Cloud was able to hold his own against Sephiroth in ACC in the first place, and you were more than able to accept and argue the fact of his sword prowess within that department too.

Kefka abosorbed all magic and then took it with him. Terra is not in the same position as Cloud. And Cloud had a hard time. He was obviously outmatched. Sephiroth only used his swordsmanship skills, not his superpowers.

In Dissidia, things are very different. Kefka can be said to be more of an aggressive fighter then Terra, but that's about it. If he was presented to be superior then her, then I missed it. As far as I'm concerned they were equals. Terra edging out if she tapped into her true potential.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

They may be "aspects" or "parts" but they aren't him proper. Kefka isn't attached to that tower of monsters you fight. He isn't literally those creatures. So they wouldn't be considered part of his ultimate form.

Neither was Fou Lu. He's a god, why would he have to be physically attached to them? In BOF IV Fou Lu literally has conversations in human form standing with his arms crossed with his foes as he's breathing fire as a dragon at them five feet away, being in two places at one time. Granted, before you say 'well this isn't BOFIV', the concept itself is as old as dirt.

 

[Makoeyes987]

What are you talking about, man? I'm talking about how Cloud actually got time to get stronger in between the end of FFVII and AC, and had a better leg to stand on to fight Sephiroth one on one as opposed to the help of his friends like before. None of the other FF heroes got sequels (except for Cecil) to have that luxury of getting more powerful over time. Their original games and their power displayed in those are the only installments we see them in. That's why it's easier to accept Cloud taking on Sephiroth in AC.

Where does it say Cloud was training to get stronger during the time before FFVII and AC? He was doing deliveries and trying to live a normal life with Tifa. Not going out on planet buster adventures.

I am willing to accept that they're able to take on their foes in Dissidia because they got some new powers by Cosmos or whatever. Is this the case? I asked you this before. Where did their new abilities come from?

I'd say Cosmos is the reason why certain characters like Terra and Cecil are able to use powers they once lost before, but all in all, the characters are using skills they've had from within and newly gotten.

Granted, before you say 'well this isn't BOFIV', the concept itself is as old as dirt.

Just because the concept has been done in some way before, doesn't make it the same in every single work of media it's shown in. So that doesn't really matter. FFVI and Kefka are...FFVI and Kefka. Those beasties he sics at you aren't part of him. It's not one long continuous battle.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Explanation for everything in Dissidia: A wizard Cosmos and Chaos did it.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Where does it say Cloud got stronger during the time before FFVII and AC? He was doing deliveries and trying to live a normal life with Tifa. Not going out on planet buster adventures.

Didn't he have to fight monsters sometimes? Fuck it, I don't know, I guess. More reason to think that AC is fanservice. Blah!

I'd say Cosmos is the reason why certain characters like Terra and Cecil are able to use powers they once lost before, but all in all, the characters are using skills they've had from within and newly gotten.

I liked it better when fighting games weren't canon and just fun little excuses to have one character beat the snot out of another.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Didn't he have to fight monsters sometimes? Fuck it, I don't know, I guess. More reason to think that AC is fanservice. Blah!

He probably did.

I liked it better when fighting games weren't canon and just fun little excuses to have one character beat the snot out of another.

...Cry moar?

You should probably let go and have more fun with your stories. You'd save yourself a lot of trouble.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

You should probably let go and have more fun with your stories. You'd save yourself a lot of trouble.

Dissidia is a fun game and it should be considered as such. It's one thing not to take vidya game stories as serious business, but expecting quality (or at least subjective opinion on it) shouldn't be compromised or apologized for. I'm not crying rivers about it, but I can still think it's stupid.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Yeah, it sucks how fighting games have, you know, plots these days. Why can't we go back to Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter where we just beat the shit out of each other and ogled Cammy's asscheeks without caring why it was happening?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Yeah, it sucks how fighting games have, you know, plots these days. Why can't we go back to Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter where we just beat the shit out of each other and ogled Cammy's asscheeks without caring why it was happening?

Well, I'm not saying that fighting games can't have quality plots. But games like Tekken, King of Fighters, and Street Fighter have taken amazing care into organizing their plots and characters. Not that I'm expecting Dissidia to have that level of quality (which would be unfair), but just saying.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Dissidia is a fun game and it should be considered as such. It's one thing not to take vidya game stories as serious business, but expecting quality (or at least subjective opinion on it) shouldn't be compromised or apologized for. I'm not crying rivers about it, but I can still think it's stupid.

I don't know how you can see it's story as stupid at all. It's probably one of the best nods to the original vein of storytelling in FF we've gotten, especially for a damn handheld.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I don't know how you can see it's story as stupid at all. It's probably one of the best nods to the original vein of storytelling in FF we've gotten, especially for a damn handheld.

It's not exactly an unpopular opinion, man. Especially among people who aren't FF fans. It ain't top notch quality stuff. It's just a silly little story, at least in my opinion.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's not exactly an unpopular opinion, man. Especially among people who aren't FF fans. It ain't top notch quality stuff. It's just a silly little story, at least in my opinion.

You must really don't know the story then. Seriously.

Again, for a handheld with its spacial limitations, its good.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

You must really don't know the story then. Seriously.

No, I know the story. It's interesting. It's not boring. It gets me through the game. But it's not like, really quality writing or anything. It's like paperback pulp fiction. I can enjoy stuff that wouldn't really be considered all that, but that doesn't make it quality.

 

[Roger]

Well I like it. I just think that having a guide that compounds the fact that the villians are really still totally gods takes away from the supposed balance between good and evil that finally tipped after 12 wars.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Again, for a handheld with its spacial limitations, its good.

It's alright, I think. Silly, a bit stupid, but it's interesting enough to keep me from skipping every scene.

 

[Makoeyes987]

No, I know the story. It's interesting. It's not boring. It gets me through the game. But it's not like, really quality writing or anything. It's like paperback pulp fiction. I can enjoy stuff that wouldn't really be considered all that, but that doesn't make it quality.

Pulp fiction is fucking awesome and quality reading. What's wrong with you?

Well I like it. I just think that having a guide that compounds the fact that the villians are really still totally gods takes away from the supposed balance between good and evil that finally tipped after 12 wars.

The villains were kicking the asses of the heroes before