So is Sephiroth the strongest dude in FF7 or what

[Makoeyes987]

Not entirely relevant I admit, but what about Yuffie and Vincent?

Yuffie and Vincent are specifically stated as being present during the final battle with Sephiroth too.

See, there's been some confusion regarding DC's opening.

That takes place AFTER the fight with Sephiroth. Not before. Yuffie and Vincent coordinated the rescue efforts and evacuation after the battle in the Northern Crater. So yes, they were there.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Yuffie and Vincent are specifically stated as being present during the final battle with Sephiroth too.

See, there's been some confusion regarding DC's opening.

That takes place AFTER the fight with Sephiroth. Not before. Yuffie and Vincent coordinated the rescue efforts and evacuation after the battle in the Northern Crater. So yes, they were there.

Ah, ok. Yeah, that's why I was asking, thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Roger]

What? What are you talking about? Everyone was there in the final battle. Epsecially Tifa...





No, they didn't. Kefka absorbed the Warring Triad into himself. That's the name of his special ability. That's the source of all of his power now in Dissidia. Why do you think he takes on his angelic appearance?

What you said works both ways, that can just be gameplay representation. And he takes his angelic appearance.




This guy was oddly absent.

And yeah, I meant Yuffie and Vincent. But if it's stated that it took place afterwards then I'll take your word for it. It was mighty quick of them though, considering the Meteor was still in the sky at the time.

There are only a few villains who have their plot devices taken out.

Ultimecia isn't the universal being now as she was in FFVIII, in the midst of Time Compression. ExDeath isn't the Void possessed Neo-ExDeath.

Sephiroth is still himself, as he absorbed that spirit energy and added to his own. He's achieved his Reunion. And yes, the Emperor does have hell on his side. Have you not seen his powers and abilities?

I saw some smallscale magic tricks, Hell? I missed that.

And again, we only see human Sephiroth or Sephiroth with a wing.





These guys, the guys that it took the entire party to take down, weren't in Dissidia.

 

[Makoeyes987]

What you said works both ways, that can just be gameplay representation. And he takes his angelic appearance.

Not really, considering we see EX forms in several cutscenes, and Terra's own unique esper form, which is her EX mode, is referenced several times within the plot. As is Cecil's, and Bartz's, and etc. Not only that, but they're referenced in the Dissidia Ultimania as well.

This guy was oddly absent.

...That's not Kefka. And that's not even one villain. Those are several monsters you have to fight your way through, to *get* to Kefka.

And again, we only see human Sephiroth or Sephiroth with a wing.





These guys, the guys that it took the entire party to take down, weren't in Dissidia.

Because those weren't Sephiroth's completed or "perfect" forms. Reverse Sephiroth is merely a cocoon for Sephiroth's regeneration. Safer Sephiroth is a lopsided angel who's full ascension hadn't been completed, seeing as how he hadn't fully utilized his plan to absorb the entirety of the lifestream. It was only a first step. He doesn't even have his legs. Sephiroth's Ex Form is more of a reference to his perfection in ACC after the realization of the Reunion, than his final form in FFVII. That's why it's called "Reunion" in the first place, see?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I heard Safer Sephiroth *was* going to be Sephiroth's EX Mode, but the different model would have forced the game to pause and load it each time he entered and exited EX Mode.

I don't know if it's true, but I don't buy it. They would have put Safer Seph in if they really wanted too. They got Kefka's wings in, they could have used a texture swap of Sephy's coat to make them wings, and just kept his legs. Picture KH2 Seph, with his wings fluttering under the coat, to see what I mean.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I heard Safer Sephiroth *was* going to be Sephiroth's EX Mode, but the different model would have forced the game to pause and load it each time he entered and exited EX Mode.

Naw, that's from a fake interview that floated around gamefaqs awhile ago. It was said to have been posted on 2ch but it was a fabrication. They never said that.

I don't know if it's true, but I don't buy it. They would have put Safer Seph in if they really wanted too. They got Kefka's wings in, they could have used a texture swap of Sephy's coat to make them wings, and just kept his legs. Picture KH2 Seph, with his wings fluttering under the coat, to see what I mean.

Yeah, it makes no sense at all. It's a lie

 

[Cat Rage Room]

...That's not Kefka. And that's not even one villain. Those are several monsters you have to fight your way through, to *get* to Kefka.

I have heard very knowledgeable people in FF6's community have very heated arguments about this. I'm going to have to say 'I don't know'.

 

[Roger]

They gave Dissidia it's own Ultimania Omega Guide?

Anyway, the point still stands. the Bossfights that required a full party weren't fought in Dissidia. Kefka and Sephiroth are just single beings in this. But if it is as you say and the difference between Kefka and Terra was still that of an outright god and a mortal and it just never came up because Terra's motives were just so correct then I agree with Laubholtz, it's stupid.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

The tiers aren't Kefka, they're just monsters he made to fight the party. They may be intended as representations of Kefka, but they aren't him.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I have heard very knowledgeable people in FF6's community have very heated arguments about this. I'm going to have to say 'I don't know'.

No, they're all different monsters with different names. They aren't Kefka himself.

They're Visage, Machine, Magic, Power, Lady, and Rest. You fight all of them, and Kefka descends to finally fight you.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

No, they're all different monsters with different names. They aren't Kefka himself.

They're Visage, Machine, Magic, Power, Lady, and Rest. You fight all of them, and Kefka descends to finally fight you.

I know that much, man. I know their names, but the debate is whether or not they're aspects, or 'parts' of Kefka, along with the whole thing that the series of final battles is symbolic to Dante's Divine Comedy and other works. Not to mention a lot of them look like him. They're not 'him', but they're almost like his 'appendages', sort of.

 

[Makoeyes987]

They gave Dissidia it's own Ultimania Omega Guide?

Anyway, the point still stands. the Bossfights that required a full party weren't fought in Dissidia. Kefka and Sephiroth are just single beings in this. But if it is as you say and the difference between Kefka and Terra was still that of an outright god and a mortal and it just never came up because Terra's motives were just so correct then I agree with Laubholtz, it's stupid.

Yes they did. It's on the front page of our site.

And it's not stupid dude. It's fantasy. It's fighting. Again. You seem to be pigeonholing the abilities of the characters, when the creators are under no such misgivings of their powers, at all. No one cried about it being stupid that Cloud was facing off against a stronger version of Sephiroth mono-a-mono and able to win with holes in his chest, so why the hell is it an issue now? Cloud's not the only strong hero in Final Fantasy.

Terra is for one, not just a mortal. She's not even fully human. She's an Esper hybrid.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

And it's not stupid dude. It's fantasy.

Uh, it can be both, man.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I know that much, man. I know their names, but the debate is whether or not they're aspects, or 'parts' of Kefka, along with the whole thing that the series of final battles is symbolic to Dante's Divine Comedy and other works. Not to mention a lot of them look like him. They're not 'him', but they're almost like his 'appendages', sort of.

If they were him, they'd be labeled as such in the bestiary of the game. They're not identified at all with Kefka. They're just monsters that were thrown at the party before Kefka himself appeared to dispose of the characters. When you make it to the top, Kefka swoops in to deal with you. It makes no sense that they'd all be him at once, and he'd fly in to fight you unconnected.

And unless you believe Kefka's transgendered, the fact some of them resemble him, is irrelevant since some of them look like women too

 

[Makoeyes987]

Uh, it can be both, man.

You've missed my point.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

If they were him, they'd be labeled as such in the bestiary of the game. They're not identified at all with Kefka. They're just monsters that were thrown at the party before Kefka himself appeared to dispose of the characters. When you make it to the top, Kefka swoops in to deal with you. It makes no sense that they'd all be him at once, and he'd fly in to fight you unconnected.

And unless you believe Kefka's transgendered, the fact some of them resemble him, is irrelevant since some of them look like women too

Like I said, not Kefka himself, but 'appendages' or aspects of him.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Like I said, not Kefka himself, but 'appendages' or aspects of him.

That's possible, but that's still not him proper. They're magical beings he created. But they're independent of his true final form which you fight in the actual last battle.

So those things appearing in Dissidia would make no sense.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I know that much, man. I know their names, but the debate is whether or not they're aspects, or 'parts' of Kefka, along with the whole thing that the series of final battles is symbolic to Dante's Divine Comedy and other works. Not to mention a lot of them look like him. They're not 'him', but they're almost like his 'appendages', sort of.

How do they look like him? Visage looks entirely different, the second tier has no real "face"....I guess Rest looks a bit like him. But at the end, *that's* Kefka. There's no evidence at all that the tiers before the final battle are other forms of Kefka. You could see them as monsters made in his image, but that's about it.

And yes, the Divine Comedy thing is my favorite part of the battle. Taken from FF Wiki in a section I original wrote (of course it has since been changed):

The final battle against Kefka draws strong symbolism from Dante Alighieri's Divine Comedy, an epic poem in which Dante travels through Hell, Purgatory and Heaven. The first tier in the battle is represented by a demon, and in the Divine Comedy the first tier is Hell where Satan is entrapped up to his waist. The second tier of the battle contains beasts, people and machinery, which collectively represent Purgatory, the second tier in the Divine Comedy. The third tier is inspired by Michelangelo's Pietà, a sculpture of Jesus' body lying in Mary's lap after he is crucified. This represents the third tier in the Divine Comedy, Heaven, with Rest and Lady in the positions of Jesus and Mary in the Pietà. The final tier in the Divine Comedy is when Dante comes face-to-face with God, who explains to him the meaning of life. This again reflects Kefka, who has become the God of Magic and tells the Returners that life is meaningless.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

And it's not stupid dude. It's fantasy. It's fighting. Again. You seem to be pigeonholing the abilities of the characters, when the creators are under no such misgivings of their powers, at all. No one cried about it being stupid that Cloud was facing off against a stronger version of Sephiroth mono-a-mono and able to win with holes in his chest, so why the hell is it an issue now? Cloud's not the only strong hero in Final Fantasy.

Terra is for one, not just a mortal. She's not even fully human. She's an Esper hybrid.

Personally, I thought AC was stupid, and more or less fanservice from jump street. And I also think the concept of a canonical fighting game where all of the heroes and villains from FF square off each other and the fact that it's an actual entry into the universes of their respective games is stupid, also. It's a fun game, but stupid. Not unacceptable, but stupid. I have more or less accepted the fact (or rather, my opinion) that S-E isn't really that responsible with the levels of power in it's characters and at this point I just take it as it is.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

That's possible, but that's still not him proper. They're magical beings he created. But they're independent of his true final form which you fight in the actual last battle.

So those things appearing in Dissidia would make no sense.

I dunno, I can dig that.

How do they look like him? Visage looks entirely different, the second tier has no real "face"....I guess Rest looks a bit like him. But at the end, *that's* Kefka. There's no evidence at all that the tiers before the final battle are other forms of Kefka. You could see them as monsters made in his image, but that's about it.

Besides for the monster thing and the woman, they all have blond hair and ponytails and they have his facial structure.

Uh, I noticed that much when I was like 10, man.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Personally, I thought AC was stupid, and more or less fanservice from jump street

See also: the rest of the Compilation.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Personally, I thought AC was stupid, and more or less fanservice from jump street. And I also think the concept of a canonical fighting game where all of the heroes and villains from FF square off each other and the fact that it's an actual entry into the universes of their respective games is stupid, also. It's a fun game, but stupid. Not unacceptable, but stupid. I have more or less accepted the fact (or rather, my opinion) that S-E isn't really that responsible with the levels of power in it's characters and at this point I just take it as it is.

It seems more silly that there has to be a power level chart that restricts who can fight whom, and shit. Why do you care so much that villains remain untouchable unless its in groups of 3 or 4...?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

It seems more silly that there has to be a power level chart that restricts who can fight whom, and shit. Why do you care so much that villains remain untouchable unless its in groups of 3 or 4...?

Because it really isn't consistent since Dissidia is canon (which was a stupid move, I think). In the original games it took the entire party to defeat the antagonist, but now they can take them on one on one? Come on, one or the other, man.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Because it really isn't consistent since Dissidia is canon (which was a stupid move, I think). In the original games it took the entire party to defeat the antagonist, but now they can take them on one on one? Come on, one or the other, man.

As I said earlier in the thread - search on YouTube, I promise you for every final boss in the series, you'll find someone insane/good enough to fight and defeat them with a single character. :p

 

[Makoeyes987]

Because it really isn't consistent since Dissidia is canon (which was a stupid move, I think). In the original games it took the entire party to defeat the antagonist, but now they can take them on one on one? Come on, one or the other, man.

First, who really cares?

Second, why is it beyond the scope of believability that the heroes would also be in turn, stronger as well? Did that ever cross your mine as a possibility as to why they're able to now fight with their villains one-on-one as well?

It's the same reason Cloud was able to hold his own against Sephiroth in ACC in the first place, and you were more than able to accept and argue the fact of his sword prowess within that department too.