So is Sephiroth the strongest dude in FF7 or what

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Garland is the being that it was sent back in time, as in, the Cornelian knight, Chaos is after he send back as in, the God of Discord.

Barely a difference at all, off course, but quite relevant all the same.

Well that's the funny think about a time loop. It can allow the same person, from different time periods, to exist and see each other in a single point in time.

Chaos is "Garland" from the past, and the original entity that created Garland in the first place. Garland, is from the present and future. Chaos is a god from the past, who, when his memories got wiped, created Garland as a first place, who went into a time warp, and thus became the individual we know of now. He then sent himself into a time loop of the past, to become Chaos *again* and thus, plot of FF1, begins.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Typically, however, Mog, when a main installment is not in canon/continuity W/regards to the rest of of the series, it is specifically noted. The presumption is generally that all the things are canon, and things are taken out, as opposed to the other way around.

In this case, Dissidia is a Superstory on top of all the other ones, mildly influencing several, and directly influencing the world of FF1 and FF5. It's simply another logical step in the by now undeniable many worlds understanding of the various Final Fantasy games and how they relate to each other.

The creators are endorsing it as officially a 'Final Fantasy' game first and foremost- not Dissidia: something else, but Final Fantasy: Dissidia.
All the characters are supposed to be their original counterparts- torn from their worlds a la Cloud in FFT and Gilgy in 8, 9, and 12.
All the cosmos and chaos reports are indicative that the world of FF1 and all other worlds got dragged into this mess. That was the story they wanted to tell. They wanted to explain things with this story. So why, if they wanted all of things understood with their story, would they want it not to count?
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
Well that's the funny think about a time loop. It can allow the same person, from different time periods, to exist and see each other in a single point in time.

Chaos is "Garland" from the past, and the original entity that created Garland in the first place. Garland, is from the present and future. Chaos is a god from the past, who, when his memories got wiped, created Garland as a first place, who went into a time warp, and thus became the individual we know of now. He then sent himself into a time loop of the past, to become Chaos *again* and thus, plot of FF1, begins.

Still the Garland that we fight in Dissidia, is the one that is still called Garland and not Chaos. As in, This guy:
Boss #1: Garland
Location: Chaos Shrine
Suggested Level: 3
Status:
HP: 212 | ATK: 15 | ACC: 27 | DEF: 8 |
AGI: 6 | INT: 12 | EVA: 12 | MDF: 64 |
Gil: 250 | EXP: 130 | Treasure: Longsword |

You understand how hilarious I consider it that this guy is considered on par with any endboss of the following games.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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Smooth Criminal
Still the Garland that we fight in Dissidia, is the one that is still called Garland and not Chaos. As in, This guy:
Boss #1: Garland
Location: Chaos Shrine
Suggested Level: 3
Status:
HP: 212 | ATK: 15 | ACC: 27 | DEF: 8 |
AGI: 6 | INT: 12 | EVA: 12 | MDF: 64 |
Gil: 250 | EXP: 130 | Treasure: Longsword |

You understand how hilarious I consider it that this guy is considered on par with any endboss of the following games.

You're just mean :monster:

He can knock down ANYONE if he puts his mind to it. :awesome:

Honestly, considering the guy's importance and all, it's cold that'd he be made into a pansy, like in FF1. He's the first villain of all FF. He's getting the same treatment WoL got in Dissidia. WoL didn't have any of the badass attacks and abilities in FF1, he had in Dissidia. He got more fleshing out, just like WoL. And seeing how he's Chaos, it doesn't make sense for him to be weak. I'd say his abysmal stats and weak difficulty is just a testament to the gameplay, since he's the first boss. Not the plot itself.
 

Roger

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AKA
Minato
All the characters are supposed to be their original counterparts- torn from their worlds a la Cloud in FFT and Gilgy in 8, 9, and 12.
All the cosmos and chaos reports are indicative that the world of FF1 and all other worlds got dragged into this mess. That was the story they wanted to tell.

Honestly, I have to disagree.
Chaos Report 5
Harmony and discord are both created beings.
While observing how they acquired pawns to
fight in their conflict, I found that a great
number of the consciousnesses had drifted to
this world from other dimensions.
I wondered if I might be able to give those
consciousnesses physical form. After countless
experiments, finally my testing reached success.
Taken from this one could figure that the characters as we know them now started out as just conciousnesses, then the Great Will gave them shape and as much power as he cared to give them. These powers manifested in ways familiar to the conciousnesses, ability to lift things several times their own weight for some, the power to summon small meteors to others or the ability to transform into furries for the really exceteric ones. People with strong wills like Mateus and Sephiroth grew more powerful then others, Garland who is actually a different being, sought out by the Great Will himself, was special. Still their powers remain at relatively the same scale.

This is the "The Great Will did it" explanation that I could accept.
But it seems that's not the case, Dissidia Ultimania apparantly states that nearly everyone retains all powers they had at the end of their respective games (or two years later and five minutes into for Sephiroth and Garland respectively) and over the last 12 conflicts the good guys and the bad guys more or less evened out.
If that is the way of it, I would have preferred clear mentions of how the Choas side Aizenstomped the Cosmos side in the first conflicts. that's the problem I have with it.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Honestly, I have to disagree.

Taken from this one could figure that the characters as we know them now started out as just conciousnesses, then the Great Will gave them shape and as much power as he cared to give them. These powers manifested in ways familiar to the conciousnesses, ability to lift things several times their own weight for some, the power to summon small meteors to others or the ability to transform into furries for the really exceteric ones. People with strong wills like Mateus and Sephiroth grew more powerful then others, Garland who is actually a different being, sought out by the Great Will himself, was special. Still their powers remain at relatively the same scale.

This is the "The Great Will did it" explanation that I could accept.
But it seems that's not the case, Dissidia Ultimania apparantly states that nearly everyone retains all powers they had at the end of their respective games (or two years later and five minutes into for Sephiroth and Garland respectively) and over the last 12 conflicts the good guys and the bad guys more or less evened out.
If that is the way of it, I would have preferred clear mentions of how the Choas side Aizenstomped the Cosmos side in the first conflicts. that's the problem I have with it.

First off, The Great Will is
Cid of the Lufaine.

And you're off base there with your assertion. The consciousnesses he gave form, are the manikins. That's whats being referred to in that Chaos Report. Not the heros and villains of Dissidia. The gods restored them to fight for their cause. Not Cid.

And the game hints as to how the Cosmos side lost, for example, Terra got mind controlled by Kefka to fight against her allies.
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
First off, The Great Will is
Cid of the Lufaine.

And you're off base there with your assertion. The consciousnesses he gave form, are the manikins. That's whats being referred to in that Chaos Report. Not the heros and villains of Dissidia. The gods restored them to fight for their cause. Not Cid.

And the game hints as to how the Cosmos side lost, for example, Terra got mind controlled by Kefka to fight against her allies.

I dunno how letting me in on that spoiler effects the argument.

I thought the failures were the manikins. We know that Terra fought on the Chaos side. The game itself doesn't hint towards mindcontrol.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
I thought the failures were the manikins. We know that Terra fought on the Chaos side. The game itself doesn't hint towards mindcontrol.

Again. Dissidia Ultimania. It confirms that she was an unwilling combatant for the side of Chaos through mind control. Why would she willingly join the side of Chaos? Where's the logic in that?

And how would Cid of the Lufaine be able to give the heroes and villains shape? They are not his experiments he sealed up in the Rift. Read again.

While observing how they acquired pawns to
fight in their conflict, I found that a great
number of the consciousnesses had drifted to
this world from other dimensions.

I wondered if I might be able to give those
consciousnesses physical form. After countless
experiments, finally my testing reached success.
The failures were sealed in the Interdimensional
Rift.

Now. This is saying Cid was observing how the gods acquired pawns for their conflict. Past tense. Going by that, the relevant fighters have already been acquired and are fighting. So Cid didn't have anything to do with the actual hero/villain fighters themselves. He's acquiring the other consciousnesses that he apparently used for experiments and thus they formed into the manikins that were sealed in the rift. I think in the end, they all became failures, since we're never shown any sort of "success" from his experiments with them.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
That's silly. Just because one game is connected to it, that alone isn't enough to convince anyone that 'what the hell, let's assume ALL the games are too'! Something can be one but not the other.

Yet, what points to it being otherwise? Given all the references to these characters' pasts (Dissidia Ultimania, Dissidia website, in-game profiles, dialogue within the story itself), what is there to suggest that FFVII isn't part of Cloud's past, VIII part of Squall's, etc.?

It's obvious even without looking at the developers' comments, but should be even more so when you do.

As for that quote about Dissidia not being directly tied to any of the games these characters come from, obviously that was said before the game came out and before its Ultimania did as well. Given that the later quotes refute it, I'd go with the newer ones.

Furthermore, the game itself proves that wrong with regard to FFI at the very least, if not also FFV.

I'd agree that it's not "directly tied" to the rest of them in the sense that it's altogether dependent on them; as well, it doesn't impact them in any way.

But, really, the creator intent is obvious here, and is repeatedly made evident by the game itself. It's not like Kingdom Hearts, where the settings and histories are completely different, and where you have developers commenting that it's all an alternate universes.

Besides, it's not even like Dissidia influences the plot of any game but FFI. It's not a big deal that it's canon.

Laubholz said:
That is a decent point, but little to do with Dissidia itself.

Agreeing with Mako here. Has everything to do with Dissidia itself given that the very concept in question -- the Interdimensional Rift -- plays a huge part in Dissidia's plot.

ShikamaruNara said:
Taken from this one could figure that the characters as we know them now started out as just conciousnesses, then the Great Will gave them shape and as much power as he cared to give them.

I have to agree with Mako again. The Great Will didn't bring those guys here. Both the Chaos Report you quoted and the opening of the game itself state that Chaos and Cosmos dragged them there.

As for the drifting consciousnesses in question, those may well be the unfortunate residents of the worlds that got squished together. But it's definitely not the heroes and villains.

ShikamaruNara said:
But it seems that's not the case, Dissidia Ultimania apparantly states that nearly everyone retains all powers they had at the end of their respective games (or two years later and five minutes into for Sephiroth and Garland respectively) and over the last 12 conflicts the good guys and the bad guys more or less evened out.
If that is the way of it, I would have preferred clear mentions of how the Choas side Aizenstomped the Cosmos side in the first conflicts. that's the problem I have with it.

If I'm understanding you correctly, the issue you've taken is that the heroes -- who once defeated these villains -- have lost to them in previous rounds of the Dissidia conflict. Is that correct?

If so, I'd just point out that the heroes had help when they beat these guys before. And we know Terra is one reason they lost the previous round anyway.

But your comment here raises a good point: If it can be established that Dissidia is a continuity clusterfuck, then I'd say it's more than fair to not treat it as in-continuity. But I'd still say it's canon as far as the developers are concerned -- which is really what the word "canon" applies to anyway.

Besides, establishing that it is such a clusterfuck would be a hard sell anyway in a game where the premise involves a host of dead villains being brought back to life.

If something like Kefka and Terra still having magical powers seems too outside continuity for you, then alright. It doesn't bother me, though, given the aforementioned resurrected villains, as well as the idea that all these worlds have been mashed together. Not to mention that the two gods were clearly capable of taking elements from different periods in time and combining them into one place.

So you've got Squall and Ultimecia -- both from the same world, but different eras -- fighting in this conflict, while you also have the duos of Tidus and Jecht along with Cloud and Sephiroth -- same universe, different eras -- fighting.

I can't really see any continuity issues that jump out at me.

Aside from Terra, one other thing I've heard brought up is Cecil switching between Dark Knight and Paladin. I don't see that as a problem either -- if Cecil really wanted to conquer his darkness completely, would he spend the rest of his life hiding from it and denying what is part of him? Why wouldn't he try to negotiate a balance between his own light and darkness?

For that matter, such a balance is a key element of Dissidia, and is something of an ongoing theme from SE lately. That fit right in thematically.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
Yet, what points to it being otherwise? Given all the references to these characters' pasts (Dissidia Ultimania, Dissidia website, in-game profiles, dialogue within the story itself), what is there to suggest that FFVII isn't part of Cloud's past, VIII part of Squall's, etc.?

The stance I was taking before was this one; something non canonical can reference events, give background information, give new background information, flesh out relationships, and all that, and still be non canonical. The information gained can be canonical, but the events themselves can be non canonical.

For example, if Batman fought Captain America in a non canonical Marvel/DC crossover, and that issue referenced old information (Batman's past and background), and even gave new background info (say, revealing Bruce Wayne's middle name in said issue, for example), the information can be canonical, but in the grand scope of things, the events aren't. Bruce Wayne's middle name (new information) can be considered canonical, but the event that it occurred in (him fighting fighting Captain America) can be non canonical and can be considered to have 'never really occurred' in Batman's main timeline for the character.

I am aware that Dissidia is canon.
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
If I'm understanding you correctly, the issue you've taken is that the heroes -- who once defeated these villains -- have lost to them in previous rounds of the Dissidia conflict. Is that correct?

No, you misunderstand what I'm trying to say here. The issue I have is, yes, the villains as they are brought to this game were defeated before, but not by just the one hero. In gameplay it took four but in storywise Kefka was probably faced by 10 playable characters. And it was always seen as a great accomplishment. Now if you take Kefka as he was in that final battle and just Terra as she was then and put them in a seperate world to duke it out Terra would be reduced to a smoking hole in the ground. The same would probably be true of most heros here.

The good guys lost the previous conflict, I know. But so far as I know we aren't told that the first six conflict were complete onesided massacres. Which by all means, they should have been.

I mean, there's still the possibility that the Chaos side won nearly every conflixt and it's been an uphill battle for the Cosmos side but even if so, the villain definitely don't act like it.
When they came to this realm they each individually considered themselves near godlike, right? Skip to the 13th conflict where they feel the need to resort scrubby tactics, teamwork, ganging up, and any one-on-one with the heros isn't seen as a done deal. By all means their egos have slowly been destroyed. But despite having newfound respect for the strength of their nemesises they don't seem to bothered or frustrated by it. It seems to me that this game does not actually acknowledge how powerful the villains actually were in their own worlds.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
I see your point now. But didn't the villains all have power-ups of one sort or another in the final battles? In Kuja's case, Zidane was said in-game to be more powerful if not for the souls Kuja absorbed. It was also implicit that Terra was more powerful than Kefka. The others may not have been too terribly far apart in ability.
 
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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
ShikamaruNara said:
The good guys lost the previous conflict, I know. But so far as I know we aren't told that the first six conflict were complete onesided massacres. Which by all means, they should have been.

Why does the game have to explicitly tell you it was a onesided massacre? That sounds utterly ridiculous. You seem to think of the heroes as nothing more than helpless sheep going towards the slaughter, failing to take into consideration that none of them are anything close to normal, and they have immense capacity for growth and power as well. The villains were stronger, but the heroes weren't pussies either. They'd be more than capable of putting up a fight. Terra's a powerhouse of an Esper and FFVI states she's one of the most powerful beings in terms of magic.

When they came to this realm they each individually considered themselves near godlike, right? Skip to the 13th conflict where they feel the need to resort scrubby tactics, teamwork, ganging up, and any one-on-one with the heros isn't seen as a done deal. By all means their egos have slowly been destroyed. But despite having newfound respect for the strength of their nemesises they don't seem to bothered or frustrated by it. It seems to me that this game does not actually acknowledge how powerful the villains actually were in their own worlds.

Because each and every time, their memories of the past conflict were wiped. Only recently were they able to fully remember their lives in the previous cycles of combat, and thus decide they want to end it completely and be free to do whatever is they wish. And they're not stupid enough to think that this would not require them to at least for an alliance to free themselves from the shackles of gods who are more powerful than them.

And when the game says that Sephiroth had more than enough power to destroy the world, I fail to see how the game doesn't acknowledge how much power the villains had in their respective universes.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
In the original game? No. Hell no.

I think he's talking Kefka sans-Warring Triad absorption. Because yeah, Kefka's magic is artificial. In terms of original, true magic potential, Terra was stronger because she's an Esper. Only by sucking up the powers of other Espers, and then the Warring Triad themselves, was Kefka made into the magical powerhouse he is now. Terra's growth is all innate.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
Yeah, I agree. Before his WT power boost, Terra would have turned him into a smear on the pavement, but as far as raw power, period, post WT? Kefka was almost literally Terra's daddy. No single individual was stronger than him.

But yeah I see what he means.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
In the original game? No. Hell no.
She's half-Esper. He's been enhanced with some Espers' power like Celes, whom Terra definitely outclasses. At whatever stage of strength Kefka was when revived and pulled to the Dissidia conflict, it obviously didn't put them as far apart as they would have been in FFVI's final battle. By the way, replying on cell phones sucks. EDIT: Really sucks.
 
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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
I'd attribute their closer gap in power to the fact Terra's been fighting again and again and again in the cycle, to be honest. Kefka is exhibiting all of the same abilities he had before when he finally did absorb the Warring Triad. So either he got lazy, or Terra got stronger. Which going by the actual evidence, seems to support the latter.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
i don't know. I don't feel like any of the heroes could have fought Kefka solo if he was using the power of the Triad. Granted, their power to literally rip the world open may not have applied in the conglomerate world that serves as the stage for the conflict, but he was still presented as only being in a position to lose in FFVI because he chose to let the world die slowly and because he wanted the Returners to reach him. Resorting to traps in Dissidia would be a little out of place given that level of power. As well, none of the other villains seem to have their various power increases in Dissidia. I don't think the EX forms are related to the story itself.
 

Makoeyes987

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AKA
Smooth Criminal
I don't think the EX forms are related to the story itself.

Terra, Cecil, Bartz, and the other characters who've had their Ex Modes featured in the Ultimania would like to have a word with you :monster:

Their Ex forms are very much part of their character and abilities. Wouldn't make sense to make completely contradictory and non-related Ex forms and then present certain ones as part of the plot.
 
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Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
Why does the game have to explicitly tell you it was a onesided massacre?

It doesn't, really. But they are most definitely, most assuredly not even either. I gave a possible explanation. But that's not what the prologue says. The battle has gone on endlessly and has ended in Chaos' favor. A battle between all of the villians combined and each of the main characters of each game would not go on endlessly. The game gives you an idea that a balance was broken. There should not have been balance between these two sides to begin with.

You seem to think of the heroes as nothing more than helpless sheep going towards the slaughter, failing to take into consideration that none of them are anything close to normal, and they have immense capacity for growth and power as well.

I don't, stop putting words in my mouth. But in their own games, you needed to build a team. It was always very clear that the main hero would be an idiot to face the villain all by himself. Only the Onion Knight has the good grace to respect that reality.

The villains were stronger, but the heroes weren't pussies either. They'd be more than capable of putting up a fight. Terra's a powerhouse of an Esper and FFVI states she's one of the most powerful beings in terms of magic.

And if the heros had always "put up a fight", I would not have a problem with it. But they couldn't uphold an even balance against them. as they evidently have.


Because each and every time, their memories of the past conflict were wiped. Only recently were they able to fully remember their lives in the previous cycles of combat, and thus decide they want to end it completely and be free to do whatever is they wish. And they're not stupid enough to think that this would not require them to at least for an alliance to free themselves from the shackles of gods who are more powerful than them.

Well they used to be. Sephiroth is fully content on letting WEAPONS designed to destroy beings like himself roam free and Kefka makes Statues that could fry him like he was nothing obey him by shoating and calling them names.

And when the game says that Sephiroth had more than enough power to destroy the world, I fail to see how the game doesn't acknowledge how much power the villains had in their respective universes.

When Bartz showed that jogging in the opposite direction is an effective way of escaping the combimed force of Ultimecia, the Emperor and Sephiroth my opinion dropped of them.

I think he's talking Kefka sans-Warring Triad absorption. Because yeah, Kefka's magic is artificial. In terms of original, true magic potential, Terra was stronger because she's an Esper. Only by sucking up the powers of other Espers, and then the Warring Triad themselves, was Kefka made into the magical powerhouse he is now. Terra's growth is all innate.

Terra has innate magical power, that's where the potential that is spoken off in this game lies. but her growth wasn't all natural. In the actual story you team, including Terra, owed a lot to Magicite.
 

DrakeClawfang

The Wanderer of Time
For the EX Modes, for some characters it's not a big deal. Firion, Squall, Cloud and Tidus, just pull out their better weapons. Kuja, Zidane, Terra, Bartz and Onion Knight have the ability to change into their "EX Modes" in their original games. Sephiroth has shown the ability to sprout his wing at will. Ultimecia can call Griever and Junction it whenever she likes, Jecht appears in human form before turning into the Final Aeon inside Sin, and Exdeath's Tree Form is his true form. Shantotto just puts on a new costume.

So the only times an EX Mode *needs* an explanation is the following:

Garland and WoL - they class-change, how?
Emperor - how can he change into the Hell Emperor at will?
CoD - consider her EX Mode is more or less her original form, more like we need to know where her normal mode comes from
Cecil - he pulls out his better weapons sure, but how he is able to change *back* to Dark Knight once a Paladin?
Golbez - how does he fuse with Shadow Dragon?
Kefka - how is he able to turn God at will? You could perhaps argue in the original game, though, he appeared human at the end of the game before the battle.
Gabranth - the whole reason why he needs the power of Mist to just put his helmet on is beyond me

In terms of power, Terra was stronger than Kefka at the beginning of the game, since she's half-Esper she'd have more power than any artificially infused human, including Kefka. But once he got the Triad, Kefka surpassed her in sheer power, he got the power of the creatures that created the Espers in the first place. Still, due to her Esper powers, it wouldn't be unfair to say Terra was the strongest person in the world *after* Kefka. Certainly she was the strongest among the Returners, who all needed Magicite to use Magic. Except Celes, but as we all know her magic was artificial.

Also just a point - remember in Dissidia, Kefka is trying to sway Terra to join him because he wants to use her power. Even if he could destroy the world on his own (not stated but possible), Kefka clearly considers Terra being on his side helpful for achieving that goal.
 
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Makoeyes987

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AKA
Smooth Criminal
It doesn't, really. But they are most definitely, most assuredly not even either. I gave a possible explanation. But that's not what the prologue says. The battle has gone on endlessly and has ended in Chaos' favor. A battle between all of the villians combined and each of the main characters of each game would not go on endlessly. The game gives you an idea that a balance was broken. There should not have been balance between these two sides to begin with.

The balance was broken when Chaos lost his memories, Cid made his bargain with Shinryu, and they created this cycle of eternal conflict.

The battles go on endlessly because that's what Shinryu and "The Great Will" wishes. They keep resetting it. It has nothing to do with it being a stalemate. It's cycled and repeated endlessly.



I don't, stop putting words in my mouth. But in their own games, you needed to build a team. It was always very clear that the main hero would be an idiot to face the villain all by himself. Only the Onion Knight has the good grace to respect that reality.

Bear in mind, Onion Knight was also being a coward.



And if the heros had always "put up a fight", I would not have a problem with it. But they couldn't uphold an even balance against them. as they evidently have.

I think you're missing the context of what the true balance was. Originally, Chaos and Cosmos ruled everything together. That was the true balance. Then they started fighting. And they fought, and fought, and fought again. That's the truth, and its the plot twist.




Well they used to be. Sephiroth is fully content on letting WEAPONS designed to destroy beings like himself roam free and Kefka makes Statues that could fry him like he was nothing obey him by shoating and calling them names.


......



When Bartz showed that jogging in the opposite direction is an effective way of escaping the combimed force of Ultimecia, the Emperor and Sephiroth my opinion dropped of them.

Are you actually trying to take a moment of the game doing something humorous for comedic effect, seriously? Especially when Emperor Mateus stated that they didn't really even care about Bartz, and they'd just sic ExDeath on him? Especially since in accordance to their plan, they wanted Bartz to face off against ExDeath and win, so he could gain his crystal, and thus weaken Cosmos further?


Terra has innate magical power, that's where the potential that is spoken off in this game lies. but her growth wasn't all natural. In the actual story you team, including Terra, owed a lot to Magicite.

You don't need Terra to equip magicite or even use it, since she inherently learns magic on her own. Same goes for Celes.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
You don't need Terra to equip magicite or even use it, since she inherently learns magic on her own. Same goes for Celes.

You know, that's true, but it doesn't invalidate what he said, either.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
So the only times an EX Mode *needs* an explanation is the following:

Garland and WoL - they class-change, how?

Through the power of Light and Darkness. :monster:

Emperor - how can he change into the Hell Emperor at will?

Because he is the Emperor of Hell.

CoD - consider her EX Mode is more or less her original form, more like we need to know where her normal mode comes from

Taken from the Dissidia Ultimania Alpha:

A member of the faction within the troops of Chaos who wishes to "Destroy the world." A being who appears when the balance between light and dark is undone, The Cloud of Darkness takes the form of a beautiful woman, but her true self - including her gender - is wrapped in mystery.

Basically, she shapeshifts and enjoys being sexy.

Cecil - he pulls out his better weapons sure, but how he is able to change *back* to Dark Knight once a Paladin?

Cecil has embraced the light and darkness within him, allowing him to fully utilize both. It's not hard at all to believe given the fact that to fully be a true warrior of light, you must accept that darkness is always apart of you.

Golbez - how does he fuse with Shadow Dragon?

Who says he fuses with it...? He just summons it.

Kefka - how is he able to turn God at will? You could perhaps argue in the original game, though, he appeared human at the end of the game before the battle.

Pretty much that. Apparently he can call upon that immense magical power once he reaches "full power."

Gabranth - the whole reason why he needs the power of Mist to just put his helmet on is beyond me

...You're a smartass. :monster:



Also just a point - remember in Dissidia, Kefka is trying to sway Terra to join him because he wants to use her power. Even if he could destroy the world on his own (not stated but possible), Kefka clearly considers Terra being on his side helpful for achieving that goal.

Exactly. He also has a hard on for her. Which is more than understandable. :awesome:
 
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