So is Sephiroth the strongest dude in FF7 or what

[Lord Noctis]

My point being is that decades of different sporting events and athletes will tell you that fans cheering for them has an extremely powerful role in team morale and performance. Hell, even in stuff like high school football games, having your mom or your girlfriend there cheering for you in the stands is enough to overcome a hell of a lot. So are you telling me none of that counts?

Maybe its the fact that the only people cheering for my team were strangers, but I just didn't feel it. Of course, I'm not much a sporting type to begin with.

But the point is, both teams normally have fans cheering away, while only Cloud did. Sephiroth had jack shit in the way of encouragement. Therefore, Cloud had an advantadge Sephiroth did not, thus rendering the playing field unequal, so he loses half a point.

But seriously, can we just agree to disagree, then talk about something we do agree on.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Hell, how doesn't it count? I really don't understand this.

Join the club, we've got jackets.

But the point is, both teams normally have fans cheering away, while only Cloud did. Sephiroth had jack shit in the way of encouragement. Therefore, Cloud had an advantadge Sephiroth did not, thus rendering the playing field unequal, so he loses half a point.

Okay, now you're pulling bullshit. If you're gonna start calling the match unequal because Cloud had people cheering for him, I get to call it unequal the other way because Sephiroth can fly while Cloud cannot.

Let's not pull any lame excuses like "the win doesn't count because people encouraged him". Because that's what it is, a lame excuse.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Join the club, we've got jackets.

Never said it didn't count, just that Sephiroth didn't have it.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

That is completely backwards. That's not an unequal advantage, that's Cloud winning and Sephiroth losing. That's not what it means to have an unequal playing field.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Never said it didn't count, just that Sephiroth didn't have it.

Cloud also doesn't have the ability to fly, or to control portions of the Lifestream, or to shapeshfit Jenova's cells, or to use the Black Materia.

If fights don't count when the two combatants don't have equal abilities, then none of these fights count. You're just trying to invent excuses by claiming Cloud had an advantage, when if you look at the facts Sephiroth had the advantage.

No double standards, kthx.

 

[Lord Noctis]

That is completely backwards. That's not an unequal advantage, that's Cloud winning and Sephiroth losing. That's not what it means to have an unequal playing field.

No, thats Cloud winning cause he had some dude to encourage him back into the fight, a benefit Sephiroth did not have. Seriously, lets say you got the shit beat out of you in a fight with somebody you hate, one day. Broken bones and heavy bruising.

Then, asusming that, in which scenario would you say you are more likely to get up and fight back.

A.You realize you are alone against your attacker, who is gloating over you.

OR

B.Someone you know and care about arrives cheering you on, thus reminding you that you aren't alone, while your opponent gloats.

As you said, the motivation can have an extremely powerful effect.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

No, thats Cloud winning cause he had some dude to encourage him back into the fight, a benefit Sephiroth did not have. Seriously, lets say you got the shit beat out of you in a fight with somebody you hate, one day. Broken bones and heavy bruising.

Then, asusming that, in which scenario would you say you are more likely to get up and fight back.

A.You realize you are alone against your attacker, who is gloating over you.

OR

B.Someone you know and care about arrives cheering you on, thus reminding you that you aren't alone, while your opponent gloats.

Except the entire scenario happens in Cloud's head. You realize that similar scenarios probably do, and have occurred in real life, right?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

No, thats Cloud winning cause he had some dude to encourage him back into the fight, a benefit Sephiroth did not have.

Are you bothering to read my posts at all? Sephiroth had a shitload more advantages than Cloud did, yet once Cloud gets an advantage of some sort the fight is invalid?

When a stipulation only applies to one side but not the other, that's a double standard, comrade. And as George Carlin said, "one standard will do just fine".

EDIT - Nevermind, guess you just needed time to catch up.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Cloud also doesn't have the ability to fly, or to control portions of the Lifestream, or to shapeshfit Jenova's cells, or to use the Black Materia.

If fights don't count when the two combatants don't have equal abilities, then none of these fights count. You're just trying to invent excuses by claiming Cloud had an advantage, when if you look at the facts Sephiroth had the advantage.

No double standards, kthx.

I'll concede that, so Cloud regains half a point.

Cloud-4

Sephiroth-0

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I'll concede that, so Cloud regains half a point.

Cloud-4

Sephiroth-0

Wouldn't it be 3.5 then?

Tomorrow I'll pick up the "mental battle" thread again. :p

 

[Lord Noctis]

Are you bothering to read my posts at all? Sephiroth had a shitload more advantages than Cloud did, yet once Cloud gets an advantage of some sort the fight is invalid?

When a stipulation only applies to one side but not the other, that's a double standard, comrade. And as George Carlin said, "one standard will do just fine".

Where did I debate this? I simply said Cloud had a benefit Sephiroth did not. And if you bothered to read my response to your last post before posting to something that doesn't even contradict what you said, you would see I already conceded that point.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Except the entire scenario happens in Cloud's head. You realize that similar scenarios probably do, and have occurred in real life, right?

Cloud's head or not, it still would have been a huge boost in confidence. The effect is the same.

 

[Kai Schulen]

Oh yeah, Cloud totally had an unfair advantage over Sephiroth despite having being stabbed through the torso, tossed up into the air only to be sliced at 8 times and dumped on the roof of Shinra Building, broken and bloody. Yeah.

B.Someone you know and care about arrives cheering you on, thus reminding you that you aren't alone, while your opponent gloats.

Except that Zack doesn't show up in the battle at all, it's all in Cloud's mind. Maybe you should change scenario B to "You think about the person who knows and cares about you and think about what they would say to encourage you to stand up and keep on fighting".
Thinking about someone you cared about and their words of encouragement =/= person physically being there to lend a hand and suddenly make it a 2 on 1 fight.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Where did I debate this? I simply said Cloud had a benefit Sephiroth did not. And if you bothered to read my response to your last post before posting to something that doesn't even contradict what you said, you would see I already conceded that point.

You mean your post that appeared after I posted the post you're now replying to, ie, your post that I hadn't yet read when you posted this message in response to my post?

....the word "post" has officially lost all meaning to me.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Cloud's head or not, it still would have been a huge boost in confidence. The effect is the same.

THINKING ABOUT ENCOURAGING THINGS IS CHEATING

YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST

 

[DrakeClawfang]

THINKING ABOUT ENCOURAGING THINGS IS CHEATING

YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST

Yes. The next time you're in a sporting event and get a boost of confidence by thinking of your friends and family, this is an unfair advantage. Report yourself to the ref you filthy cheat.

 

[Lord Noctis]

You mean your post that appeared after I posted the post you're now replying to, ie, your post that I hadn't yet read when you posted this message in response to my post?

....the word "post" has officially lost all meaning to me.

The point is you should have, you know, waited to see what I had to say, as opposed to basicly repeating yourself in a more agressive manner to something that did not actually contradict your own claim.

And to Climhazzard, I'm just saying that Cloud had one benefit Sephiroth did not. Unless of course, theres a scene I missed where Jenova pops into Sephiroth's mind and says "You can do it!" Seriously, Zack actively entered Cloud's mind and gave him the motivation he needed. I already conceded that that alone did not elevate him above Sephiroth's advantadges.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Yes. The next time you're in a sporting event and get a boost of confidence by thinking of your friends and family, this is an unfair advantage. Report yourself to the ref you filthy cheat.

Did I not just get done informing you that I conceded that Sephiroth's advantadges outweighed the pep-talk. And I never said it was unfair, only that it helped.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I never said it was unfair.

Uuuuuuh......

Cloud had an advantadge Sephiroth did not, thus rendering the playing field unequal

Hmmm......let me check my thesaurus....

Did I not just get done informing you that I conceded that Sephiroth's advantadges outweighed the pep-talk.

If Sephiroth's advantages outweigh Cloud's, then how does Cloud getting an advantage suddenly make it unequal? It's already unequal in favor of Sephiroth, any advantage Cloud gets can only help make it more equal!

 

[Lord Noctis]

Uuuuuuh......

Hmmm......let me check my thesaurus....

If Sephiroth's advantages outweigh Cloud's, then how does Cloud getting an advantage suddenly make it unequal? It's already unequal in favor of Sephiroth, any advantage Cloud gets can only help make it more equal!

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I made that post BEFORE I conceded?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I made that post BEFORE I conceded?

So you made the post contradicting your earlier post before your post where you admit, or amend, your earlier contradictions in....huh?



It's a quarter past three here, someone unravel this web of logic before I wake up please.

 

[Lord Noctis]

So you made the post contradicting your earlier post before your post where you admit, or amend, your earlier contradictions in....huh?



It's a quarter past three here, someone unravel this web of logic before I wake up please.

No, I conceded period that you were right about the equality of the fight and I was not. The only point I contradicted myself on was whether I ever accused Cloud of having an unfair advantadge, which I only did cause I have not slept more than four hours in the last three days, and its just turned morning here, so now its four days.

Put simply, you win this round. Not sure I can make it anymore clear than that.

 

[OWA-2]

Remember guys, when Sephiroth decided to fight with everything he had(end of FFVII), Cloud needed help from the whole party to beat him. Different of ACC, where Sephiroth fought with his sword only.
FFVII itself is proof enough that Cloud alone isn't stronger than him.

I think the real question here is:

Is Sephiroth more powerful than the Mako Cannon?

You are probably joking with this question but... Actually, he is. The cannon destroyed the barrier created by him, but did not penetrate it. Meaning you would need two shots to hurt(or kill) him: One to destroy the barrier around him, and another to actually hit him. And that's assuming he would stay still after his barrier was destroyed, and not dodge the next shot.
...And he did cut the cannon in pieces in CC.

People forget Sephiroth was able to block a super-shot from the Sister Ray. They forget he is insanely powerful, the final boss of a FF game, and compare his strength with Cloud's only because of a fan-service movie.
Guys... Wake up.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

How could have the barrier possibly have hit Sephiroth when he was deep in the planets core? He didn't block a shot from the Sister Ray because Shinra wasn't stupid enough to try to shoot him with it, they just wanted to take down the barrier.

 

[OWA-2]

How could have the barrier possibly have hit Sephiroth when he was deep in the planets core? He didn't block a shot from the Sister Ray because Shinra wasn't stupid enough to try to shoot him with it, they just wanted to take down the barrier.

It was an example. If Sephiroth wasn't in the planet's core, but right there, Shinra would need two shots to hit him(if he didn't decide to move and dodge the second shot, I mean).

My point is, Sephiroth was able to create a barrier strong enough to protect him of a super-shot from the Sister Ray.