So is Sephiroth the strongest dude in FF7 or what

[Cat Rage Room]

Oh sure, but that doesn't quite mean he's stronger than the Sister Ray or able to take a hit from it. It's very impressive that he was able to take a barrier from it, but even then, that's because getting hit from it would fuck him up.

 

[OWA-2]

Oh sure, but that doesn't quite mean he's stronger than the Sister Ray or able to take a hit from it. It's very impressive that he was able to take a barrier from it, but even then, that's because getting hit from it would fuck him up.

True. But it doesn't change the fact he was able to block a shot from it, with his own magic power. And if it was his own power, we can say he blocked it.

 

[aniron]

Didn't read the whole thread, but answering the original question...

Does strongest equal unbeatable? Because Sepg IS beatable and Cloud proved that. Seph couldn't do anything against his omnislash and was defeated.
Then again there are Genesis (Seph kicked his ass in CC, but we still don't truly know what Genesis is capable of) and Minerva (who I would expect to be at least at equal with Sephiroth in terms of spiritual power).

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Strongest never means unbeatable.

(well, it can, but not usually)

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Has there ever been an unbeatable villain in any game? Not a rhetorical question - M.O.G. got me wondering. How would you win a game like that?

 

[Loxetta]

Has there ever been an unbeatable villain in any game? Not a rhetorical question - M.O.G. got me wondering. How would you win a game like that?

Cutscene battle?

Talk about sucking all the enjoyment out of the gameplay.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I have an example sort of; within the story and setting, Id from Xenogears is quite impossible to defeat by pretty much anyone in that games universe. He routinely mops the floor with your characters in ever fight (and anyone else who fights him), and does other fun stuff like dropping a warship on one of the main characters with his mind and singlehandedly blowing up a country.

Given the interesting nature of Id, its interesting how he's finally 'subdued'. But he's never defeated in an actual fight, ever.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Giygas from Earthbound/Mother 2. The only way Giygas is defeated is by the party literally praying for a miracle.

It was unbeatable and beyond comprehension in terms of its sheer power and evil.

 

[Cthulhu]

I was gonna say God, but then remembered that both Science and Logic pwned him ages ago.

 

[Smaddy]

Giygas from Earthbound/Mother 2. The only way Giygas is defeated is by the party literally praying for a miracle.

It was unbeatable and beyond comprehension in terms of its sheer power and evil.

Giygas is up there in terms of freakiest/craziest final boss.

Another I could think of was Deathevan from Breath of Fire 2. Even after you beat him, the cave he lives in has to be blocked off, because he will eventually re-awaken.

And what about Lavos?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Lavos doesn't really count because he is eventually beaten. Neither does Deathevan, really. Of course, that's because when I think of 'unbeatable', I mean quite literally unbeatable.

 

[Roger]

Define unbeatable. I mean, a villain that can't be beat in combat, and isn't defeated in cutscene would be sparse. It makes for a rather poor story where not only do the good guy lose, but they never physically had a chance of winning either,

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Unbeatable, as in said person never gets beat in a fight ever, permanently or temporary. There is no 'You beat me but I'll be back'. It's more like 'You absolutely cannot beat me at all. Good luck trying.'

I mean, a villain that can't be beat in combat, and isn't defeated in cutscene would be sparse. It makes for a rather poor story where not only do the good guy lose, but they never physically had a chance of winning either,

Id from Xenogears.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I have a related question, which I thought I'd put here rather than start a new thread.

Before he went to the bad Sephiroth was the face of Shinra; he had the biggest and most exclusive fanclub, and must have been the most famous person on the planet. So why does practically nobody recognise him when he's wandering around Gaia, dressed in his very distinctive outfit, hotly pursued by both Shinra and AVALANCHE?
(please mods forgive me if this has been asked before)

 

[Super Mario]

he's not the strongest. He was curb stomped countless times. Cloudy is the superior. End.

 

[aniron]

he's not the strongest. He was curb stomped countless times. Cloudy is the superior. End.

I second this.

If Seph indeed was the strongest being, that would mean he's unbeatable at his best, ie Seph AHB > Cloud AHB. Then again Cloud defeated him twice, which means that either Seph isnt the strongest after all or he simply didn't try hard (which is bollocks).

 

[Max Payne]

Nothing is unbeatable short of an omnipotent God that is incapable of dying.

 

[Cthulhu]

Nothing is unbeatable short of an omnipotent God that is incapable of dying.

As I stated before, Logic and Science trump God at all times, . Besides, who said anything about dying?

 

[Super Mario]

But like all Cthulhu's, if they exist, they can be punch'd.

 

[OWA-2]

Could Ex-Death be considered unbeatable? After all, he is quite impossible to defeat by pretty much anyone in that games universe, routinely mops the floor with your characters in every fight (and anyone else who fights him), and is only beaten by the Void itself.

I have a related question, which I thought I'd put here rather than start a new thread.

Before he went to the bad Sephiroth was the face of Shinra; he had the biggest and most exclusive fanclub, and must have been the most famous person on the planet. So why does practically nobody recognise him when he's wandering around Gaia, dressed in his very distinctive outfit, hotly pursued by both Shinra and AVALANCHE?
(please mods forgive me if this has been asked before)

I think you are confusing him with his Clones.


And guys, please, Cloud isn't stronger than Sephiroth. The same way Zidane isn't stronger than Kuja, or Terra isn't stronger than Kefka, or etc. They all needed help of the party and/or a plot-device to beat their main villains.

 

[Roger]

Cloud has beaten Sephiroth at least 4 times to my knowledge without any plot device beyond plain incompetence on Sephitoths side.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I think you are confusing him with his Clones.

Yes, I could be. I think I'm pretty comprehensively confused now. Maybe someone can point me in the direction of an article that explains this. Thanks.

 

[Roger]

Yes, I could be. I think I'm pretty comprehensively confused now. Maybe someone can point me in the direction of an article that explains this. Thanks.

When the towns people mention seeing a guy in a black cape, they aren't talking about Sephiroth but about the guys in the Black capes that you see hunching around Nibelheim and getting killed off at the Northern Crater. Sephiroth, or his likeness, left Midgar, blitzed past Kalm, had tasty tasty Midgar Zolom, was most definitely recognised as he murdered his way through Junon, you fight him the ship, he hides on it by passing through walls, then went to the Golden Saucer to have drink with Dio, and sped towards Gongaga.

He changed his mind and decided to go to Nibelheim instead, his schemes only saved by particularly convenient map design but there you have it.

 

[OWA-2]

Cloud has beaten Sephiroth at least 4 times to my knowledge without any plot device beyond plain incompetence on Sephitoths side.

It doesn't change the fact he needed help from his friends and Materia. There is no FF main-character stronger than the main-villain of his/her respective game. They all had help of some sort to beat their enemies.

And remember that Sephiroth was multi-tasking in FFVII: fighting the party, holding back Holy, and using the BM to summon Meteor. IMO that's a way of making things easier for the heroes, and can be considered a plot-device.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

It doesn't change the fact he needed help from his friends and Materia.

I must have missed the friends and Materia usage in AC/C. And if you want to count them, remember KH, KH2, Dissidia....

There is no FF main-character stronger than the main-villain of his/her respective game. They all had help of some sort to beat their enemies.

It ultimately depends entirely on the playstyle of the player. With every FF game, you can find someone on YouTube insane enough to kill the final boss with a single character.

And remember that Sephiroth was multi-tasking in FFVII: fighting the party, holding back Holy, and using the BM to summon Meteor. IMO that's a way of making things easier for the heroes, and can be considered a plot-device.

I consider it an excuse. Seems every time Sephiroth loses, there's a convenient explanation, including my favorite, "he held back, he didn't use his full strength". They're excuses plain and simple. And besides, how do we know Cloud is using his full strength? For all we know he could be able to slice the planet into pieces and is just "holding back" before he pwns Sephiroth for the 147th time.