So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Dashell]

Weren't you leaving for the night?

Don't make her go away, she hasn't replied to my stuff yet

 

[Celes Chere]

That's more than Tifa and Cloud. What I'm saying is Square gives NO EVIDENCE in-game/movie that they're anything but good friends.

Does Cloud saying he'll be okay with Tifa by his side, starting a new life with her, and raising a family with her mean nothing to you?

Wait, how are flowers NOT Aerith-centric? Even in AC they're Aerith-related. They're the exact same flowers as her flowerfield and as the ones in the church, I'd say they're Aerithtastic.

They aren't Aerith centric in the Dissidia game. And flowers don't always mean Aerith. For instance, flowers placed on Zack's grave, unless you're a closet Zerith fan, my dear. In Dissidia, they don't talk about Aerith at all, just about a dream with flowers. How does that equal Aerith, I'm totally dying to know!!! <33

He was only a wreck for two years after she died.

OMG, he was sad when someone close to him died? CLACK IS CANON.

It doesn't have to BE AERISTHS AKTUAL MATERIA to be a nice reference to her.

Fine, let the fucking materia represent Aerith. Sephiroth said it's something Cloud despises.


​

Aerith in their other games when they don't have to, amirite?

No... you are terribly wrong. There's some foam on your lip. Might want to wipe that off.

</SPAN>
​

 

[Ryushikaze]

It's the LTD.

And that excuses your hypocrisy, how?

Wakka and Lulu had a baby.
Cid and Shera got married.

Cloud and Tifa adopted a child.

etc.

That's more than Tifa and Cloud. What I'm saying is Square gives NO EVIDENCE in-game/movie that they're anything but good friends. Whereas in other games, they give a lot more.

RAISING A CHILD TOGETHER is not evidence they are more than good friends?

ffff I was kidding she and Shinji made out even though they aren't consenting adults GOD WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY SENSE OF HUMOR

Your humor was an obvious attempt to destroy a point that failed miserably. That you presented is as a joke does not change this fact.

 

[Winter]

His mind shattered. Fiat QED.

You're trying to say what is explictly true isn't.

What? I'm saying I don't think his mind shattered, I think it already WAS shattered. Of COURSE Zack's death affected him, I just feel that it gave him a bizarre sense of purpose that was yes, completely insane, but his mind wasn't shattered.

Not when they're sanctimonious hypocrites who accuse others of doing exactly what it is they are doing.

Oh, so now I'm declaring my pairing is THE MOTHERFUCKING CANON even though there's a fuckton of evidence that it isn't?

And do we SEE them doing anything? No. We don't NEED to? SO WHY DO WE NEED SO FOR FFVII?

But we DID see them doing stuff HOW DO YOU PURPOSELY MISUNDERSTAND WHAT IS SAY FFFFF

... What is absurd about a couple deciding to have kids?

Because usually in canon couples DON'T have kids. They generally only come out in the form of badly drawn fanon creations. Which is rather funny, I think.

I would, were she not a coward.
In the future, attribute your quotes of others.

Huh? When have I quoted any of you?

She's a sweetheart, yes. SOMEONE'S sweetheart.
The definition of sweetheart that coincides with the actual meaning of the original word.
Don't hide behind your ignorance like it's actually a shield.

In american english the most common meaning of "sweetheart" is "kind person". If it isn't attached to anything it's unnatural to assume that she's someone's girlfriend.

You misunderstand the end of the world and overhwelming emotions and the definition of risque and hell, everything.

I just made reference to Evangelion and you think I don't understand the meaning of RISQUE? AHAHAHA. No seriously though, I know what the word means, I know what the end of the world makes people do (see: Evangelion) but I also know Cloud and Tifa and know they wouldn't fuck outside.

And I know Red XIII sure as fuck wouldn't watch.

Weren't you leaving for the night?

No sir, I was just saying I'm tired. I've got a little fight left in me.

 

[Dashell]

In american english the most common meaning of "sweetheart" is "kind person". If it isn't attached to anything it's unnatural to assume that she's someone's girlfriend.

I realized there's like 5 of us and one of you, so I'm gonna post this again cause I think you missed it

That's a sense of someone translating and using the correct term, incorrectly in English. Someone might describe her as their own 'sweetheart'. Like barbershop quartet style. It does not mean 'sweetheart' in the endearing sense, "Awww, aren't you a sweetheart." And that can easily be misconstrued the sense it's used in.

An appropriate translation would be "...a lover..", since it's talking about the roles she's assumed.

also:
http://www.nihongodict.com/w/54063/koibito/

IT MEANS LOVER! Yes it also means sweetheart but again *points above*

 

[Vendel]

Oh, so now I'm declaring my pairing is THE MOTHERFUCKING CANON even though there's a fuckton of evidence that it isn't?

If your declaring Clerith then you are correct.

Because usually in canon couples DON'T have kids. They generally only come out in the form of badly drawn fanon creations. Which is rather funny, I think.

I'm sure we had a point here somewhere.

In american english the most common meaning of "sweetheart" is "kind person". If it isn't attached to anything it's unnatural to assume that she's someone's girlfriend.

Except the word is Japanese. And one of the definitions of sweetheart fits with that word.

but I also know Cloud and Tifa and know they wouldn't fuck outside.

You know Cloud? YOU JUST STATED CLOUD IS NOT HAPPY WITH TIFA. Even though the creators have specifically told everyone that he is.

But yeah you know the fuck out of him.

And I know Red XIII sure as fuck wouldn't watch.

They didn't watch them have sex. They saw them in the morning. Sleeping cuddled next to each other.

 

[Winter]

Does Cloud saying he'll be okay with Tifa by his side, starting a new life with her, and raising a family with her mean nothing to you?

Doesn't he leave the next day? :|

Also, friends can do that stuff together too

OMG, he was sad when someone close to him died? CLACK IS CANON.

oh please they were so gay for each other that they couldn't even see straight BUT SERIOUSLY Square has said repeatedly that Aerith was special to Cloud.

No... you are terribly wrong. There's some foam on your lip. Might want to wipe that off.

But Square loves Aeris. :C

Cloud and Tifa adopted a child.

That Cloud kept because he felt it was a responsibility Aerith left to him?

Either way, it said over nine thousand motherfucking times that while they were family Cloud wasn't THE FATHER and Tifa wasn't THE MOTHER. That's making assumptions.

Your humor was an obvious attempt to destroy a point that failed miserably. That you presented is as a joke does not change this fact.

ffff it was hilarious

 

[Dashell]

Doesn't he leave the next day? :|

no o.o

Either way, it said over nine thousand motherfucking times that while they were family Cloud wasn't THE FATHER and Tifa wasn't THE MOTHER. That's making assumptions.

After the bar was closed, the usual three people sat around the table. It wouldn't be odd if you said it was a young father with his two children

It wouldn't be odd if you said it was a young father with his two children

a young father with his two children

father

 

[Winter]

If your declaring Clerith then you are correct.

This is where your assumptions are incorrect:

There's tons of evidence for both sides, but I don't think either is canon. Yes, I'm one of the very few C/A shippers that feel this way.

I'm sure we had a point here somewhere.

Point: I wasn't trying to take a swipe at your pairing, I was making fun of fandom habits.

You know Cloud? YOU JUST STATED CLOUD IS NOT HAPPY WITH TIFA. Even though the creators have specifically told everyone that he was.

But yeah you know the fuck out of him.

I SAID EARLIER THERE IS A FUCKLOAD OF TIMES THAT HE IS VERY HAPPY BEING WITH HER. There, have some caps.

And that was hypocritical because ALL OF YOU talk about Aerith and don't know her character for shit.

They didn't watch them have sex. They saw them in the morning. Sleeping cuddled next to each other.

She had her head on his shoulder. Just like she had all night.

That's a sense of someone translating and using the correct term, incorrectly in English. Someone might describe her as their own 'sweetheart'. Like barbershop quartet style. It does not mean 'sweetheart' in the endearing sense, "Awww, aren't you a sweetheart." And that can easily be misconstrued the sense it's used in.

An appropriate translation would be "...a lover..", since it's talking about the roles she's assumed.

If they had wanted to say lover in English, I'm sure they would have. Translations mean something too.

except in the original FFVII lololol

father

Again, what others see is =/= reality. In FFVII people would have seen two hookers. :|

But sauce on that I haven't read that yet!~~~

 

[Dashell]

If they had wanted to say lover in English, I'm sure they would have.

They did actually, cause someone's sweetheart is also someone's lover

She had her head on his shoulder. Just like she had all night.

What did he do when he had to pee? o.o

 

[Celes Chere]

Doesn't he leave the next day? :|

What Que said, and not to be with Aerith.

Also, friends can do that stuff together too

Riiight. I would totally raise a family of kids with my childhood crush who I share mutual feelings with. That's totally what ALL friends do.

se they were so gay for each other that they couldn't even see straight BUT SERIOUSLY Square has said repeatedly that Aerith was special to Cloud.

I never said Aerith wasn't special to Cloud- she certainly is. Not in the romantic way like Tifa, however.

And Nomura likes Terra more than Celes, but that doesn't make LockeTerra canon. Hey, Drake, Nomura likes Terra most... So SHE should obviously be with Cloud. Wow, you make tons of sense hun!

oud kept because he felt it was a responsibility Aerith left to him?

-facepalm-

 

[Vendel]

Doesn't he leave the next day? :|

Or nearly two years after that point. Either/or.

Also, friends can do that stuff together too

Yes they can. But unless specified that two people living together raising a family are just friends. you can't assume they are.

That Cloud kept because he felt it was a responsibility Aerith left to him?

"Tifa says to bring you home kid"-Cloud ACC

Also both Cloud and Tifa think that Aerith brought Denzel to them.

Either way, it said over nine thousand motherfucking times that while they were family Cloud wasn't THE FATHER and Tifa wasn't THE MOTHER. That's making assumptions.

Really? WHERE AND WHEN?

The present Tifa isn’t just Cloud’s childhood friend, but also the mother of the ‘family’ they were forming in Edge.

Denzel clearly thinks of Cloud and Tifa as mom and dad. They even resemble his real parents.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Fourth from the left, top row. Looks pretty dark to me.

And the other side looks pretty light. In game, it looks pretty normal, like the FFIV crystals typically do.

True, but they have equivalents - Materia and spheres.

And FFVIII Has draw points.

A bit off-topic too, but has anyone figured out yet what the hell Squall's Crystal is? It's been months and I still don't know. I've heard it's feathers, a draw-point, a Gunblade....

Pretty sure it's a draw point. I'm working my way through his segment, so I shall weigh in shortly.

What? I'm saying I don't think his mind shattered, I think it already WAS shattered. Of COURSE Zack's death affected him, I just feel that it gave him a bizarre sense of purpose that was yes, completely insane, but his mind wasn't shattered.

And I'm saying that interpretation is wrong as the Ultimania says that his mind shatters upon the death of Zack.

Oh, so now I'm declaring my pairing is THE MOTHERFUCKING CANON even though there's a fuckton of evidence that it isn't?

No, you're twisting and manipulating things.

But we DID see them doing stuff HOW DO YOU PURPOSELY MISUNDERSTAND WHAT IS SAY FFFFF

We see Cecil and Rosa doing physical things together?
Point these out to me, because FUCK DAMN I don't know how I missed this. They hug at one point, but C/T gets to sleep together, so yeah.

Because usually in canon couples DON'T have kids. They generally only come out in the form of badly drawn fanon creations. Which is rather funny, I think.

in canon there generally aren't a whole hell of a lot of sequels, nor are most couples old enough to be having kids. Again, how is the idea that the couples will eventually procreate absurd in itself?

Huh? When have I quoted any of you?

Not us. You repeated something you later said was not your words. Attribute your quotes.

In american english the most common meaning of "sweetheart" is "kind person". If it isn't attached to anything it's unnatural to assume that she's someone's girlfriend.

In American english, 'such a sweetheart' means nice person. 'Sweetheart', as a ROLE, typically means the 'someone's sweetheart' meaning.
And again, do not try and pretend that your feigned ignorance of the actual meaning of the original work will hold any water.

I just made reference to Evangelion and you think I don't understand the meaning of RISQUE? AHAHAHA. No seriously though, I know what the word means, I know what the end of the world makes people do (see: Evangelion) but I also know Cloud and Tifa and know they wouldn't fuck outside.

And the creators say that "Words aren't the only way to show how you feel" were risque words. This scene contains the classic movie pan and fade to fade in snuggling indications of sex.
You think Cloud was not happy Living with Tifa, DESPITE Explicit statements that he was. I do not think you know the characters as well as you claim to/ think you do.

And I know Red XIII sure as fuck wouldn't watch.

And you never thought the gang might just be, needling them?
Beside, if nothing happened, why the reaction?

No sir, I was just saying I'm tired. I've got a little fight left in me.

You said you'd be coming back tomorrow to deal with this, actually. That was what I was referencing.

 

[Frostwave]

Either way, it said over nine thousand motherfucking times that while they were family Cloud wasn't THE FATHER and Tifa wasn't THE MOTHER. That's making assumptions.

CASE OF TIFA wrote: After the bar was closed, the usual three people sat around the table. It wouldn't be odd if you said it was a young father with his two children

CASE OF TIFA wrote: It wouldn't be odd if you said it was a young father with his two children

CASE OF TIFA wrote: a young father with his two children

CASE OF TIFA wrote: father

LOL Quexi I love you so much right now.

 

[Dashell]

Again, what others see is =/= reality. In FFVII people would have seen two hookers. :|

Also if Cloud and Tifa aren't father and mother... who are they?

LOL Quexi I love you so much right now.

Aww thanks

 

[Winter]

What Que said, and not to be with Aerith.

I was thinking of a different quote but still, there's nothing in that particular quote that is explicitly romantic.

Riiight. I would totally raise a family of kids with my childhood crush who I share mutual feelings with. That's totally what ALL friends do.

THERE IS NO MUTUAL FFFFF that's the POINT. If they're just friends they're JUST FRIENDS.

ew, caps. Also, they aren't childhood friends, in all technicality. :|

I never said Aerith wasn't special to Cloud- she certainly is. Not in the romantic way like Tifa, however.

Really? Generally when someone is engraved in someone else's heart it's not because they were pretty good friends.

And Nomura likes Terra more than Celes, but that doesn't make LockeTerra canon. Hey, Drake, Nomura likes Terra most... So SHE should obviously be with Cloud. Wow, you make tons of sense hun!

The hell? When I said Square likes Aerith, I was talking about them putting her randomly in other games, which came from far earlier in the conversation. How much creators like the characters have nothing to do with pairings, I agree completely. I wasn't saying that.

-facepalm-

Tifa tells him later that the only reason she let him bring the kid home is because she knew she couldn't say no. Also, when she asked him why, he said LOL AERITH.

But yeah, family. That includes Barret too.

 

[Ryushikaze]

But sauce on that I haven't read that yet!~~~

YOU FAIL.

YOU FAIL IT HARD.

The source is Case Of Tifa.

The source you claim shows Cloud and Tifa wouldn't work.

That you've not read.

I have nothing more to say at the moment.

Addendum: NO. Family does NOT include Barret. Family of 3/Family of 4. QED.

Egads, child, you are MADE of fail right now.

 

[Vendel]

This is where your assumptions are incorrect:

There's tons of evidence for both sides, but I don't think either is canon. Yes, I'm one of the very few C/A shippers that feel this way.

There really isn't LV. We have creator statements and in universe statements that place Cloud and Tifa as a couple. Not to mention the whole family thing. What do you have for Cloud Aerith? A hell of a lot less than Aerith and Zack and they are both dead.

And that was hypocritical because ALL OF YOU talk about Aerith and don't know her character for shit.

Well if we don't? We have things like what the creators tell us. But then again i guess you know her better than them right?

She had her head on his shoulder. Just like she had all night.

Well her head might have been on his shoulder all night. But I wont argue that. A sitting position might be best for outdoor sex.

 

[Dashell]

Really? Generally when someone is engraved in someone else's heart it's not because they were pretty good friends.

So is the promise he made to TIFA (engraved in his heart that is)

Tifa tells him later that the only reason she let him bring the kid home is because she knew she couldn't say no. Also, when she asked him why, he said LOL AERITH.

Cloud was looking for a way to make up for his sin of letting Aerith die... Denzel came along and he thought Aerith was giving him a way to make up for it... she wasn't saying "lol here's our lovechild Cloud."

I mean I'll give you that he might have felt obligated to at least help Denzel but why take him home and begin to raise him with Tifa? Why not just take him to a hospital or find a better family for him?

 

[Frostwave]

Really? Generally when someone is engraved in someone else's heart it's not because they were pretty good friends.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the kanji for Aerith being engraved in his heart the exact same as the quote that says Cloud's promise with Tifa is etched into his mind?

 

[Ryushikaze]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the kanji for Aerith being engraved in his heart the exact same as the quote that says Cloud's promise with Tifa is etched into his mind?

Exactly the same, yes.

 

[Celes Chere]

THERE IS NO MUTUAL FFFFF that's the POINT. If they're just friends they're JUST FRIENDS.

ew, caps. Also, they aren't childhood friends, in all technicality. :|

Let me say this is a way you'll understand. The Ultimania and the creators state that there are mutual feelings, and that Cloud and Tifa realize their feelings for one another at the end of the game. Also, they refer to the two as childhood friends constantly. FFFF!!2211122111 FFFF!~!!! I use FFFFF to show how frustrated I am with you!1!!!1

Really? Generally when someone is engraved in someone else's heart it's not because they were pretty good friends.

Really? Generally when Tifa is the only woman Cloud has opened his heart to, Aerith isn't in the picture.

The hell? When I said Square likes Aerith, I was talking about them putting her randomly in other games, which came from far earlier in the conversation. How much creators like the characters have nothing to do with pairings, I agree completely. I wasn't saying that.

Ah, well it's still BS. Tifa is in just as much extras as Aerith is.

But yeah, family. That includes Barret too.

No shit, Sherlock. But a certain FAMILY OF FOUR (the Ultimania stated) form a bond all of their own.</SPAN>

 

[Frostwave]

And that was hypocritical because ALL OF YOU talk about Aerith and don't know her character for shit.

Might you trouble yourself to explain exactly what is is we've so horribly misconstrued about Aerith?

 

[Vendel]

THERE IS NO MUTUAL FFFFF that's the POINT. If they're just friends they're JUST FRIENDS.

Doing the internet equivalent of "LALALALA can't hear you" is not a great debating tactic.

Again the creators have told us your interpretation is wrong. And how can they declare mutual feelings of friendship? They were already friends. Maybe, just maybe. Now stick with me here. Maybe they declared those unspoken feelings that they were each holding in?

I know it's wild considering they start living together almost right after that.

ew, caps. Also, they aren't childhood friends, in all technicality. :|

Because you know better. Despite being told repeatedly that they are. In game and by the creators.

Tifa tells him later that the only reason she let him bring the kid home is because she knew she couldn't say no. Also, when she asked him why, he said LOL AERITH.

In CoT both Cloud and Tifa think Aerith brought Denzel to THEM

But yeah, family. That includes Barret too.

Despite Barret not living at 7th heaven anymore. And the family being constantly described as a family of 4.

 

[Winter]

And I'm saying that interpretation is wrong as the Ultimania says that his mind shatters upon the death of Zack.

ffffff fine it shattered. Why is this relevant again? We were pretty much saying the same thing anyways?

We see Cecil and Rosa doing physical things together?
Point these out to me, because FUCK DAMN I don't know how I missed this. They hug at one point, but C/T gets to sleep together, so yeah.

SHE WAS IN HIS ROOM AND LIKE HAY CECIL SUP THEN IT WENT BLACK AND THEY SURE WEREN'T PLAYING SCRABBLE. And it wasn't outside, and Cecil wasn't emotionally fucked up.

in canon there generally aren't a whole hell of a lot of sequels, nor are most couples old enough to be having kids. Again, how is the idea that the couples will eventually procreate absurd in itself?

FANON IS FUNNY. That is all. Quit analyzing my opinions, it's giving me too many things to reply to.

Not us. You repeated something you later said was not your words. Attribute your quotes.

The fuck? Where did I say KOIBITO DESCRIBES HER PERSONALITY OMG?

In American english, 'such a sweetheart' means nice person. 'Sweetheart', as a ROLE, typically means the 'someone's sweetheart' meaning.
And again, do not try and pretend that your feigned ignorance of the actual meaning of the original work will hold any water.

Yeah, but in the way it's used, it does not suggest that she IS someone's sweetheart.

And the creators say that "Words aren't the only way to show how you feel" were risque words. This scene contains the classic movie pan and fade to fade in snuggling indications of sex.
You think Cloud was not happy Living with Tifa, DESPITE Explicit statements that he was. I do not think you know the characters as well as you claim to/ think you do.

In that interview they were talking about ideas for that scene. Some shit got left in.

If we were talking about everything that the creators were GOING TO DO, we'd debate in circles.

And I have stated many times that in MANY WAYS Cloud was happy living with Tifa, fucking read my posts. You're the one who's claiming two emotionally unstable and shy characters OUT AND OUT FUCKED IN PUBLIC and then NEVER SPOKE OF IT AGAIN.

I mean seriously, creators can imply shit without showing it. This wasn't the case here.

And you never thought the gang might just be, needling them?
Beside, if nothing happened, why the reaction?

She had her head on his shoulder. Cloud usually isn't that affectionate with someone unless they're a dead body. lololol

Well if we don't? We have things like what the creators tell us. But then again i guess you know her better than them right?

I've read the stupid shit you say about her being a clingy bitch all over Zack, and you misunderstood her character badly.

Z/A was actually canon at one point, unlike C/A or C/T. So uh... that's irrelevant.

That you've not read.

I have nothing more to say at the moment.

FFF IS IT NOT CONSTANTLY BEING UPDATED I have read as ABSOLUTELY MUCH OF IT as I thought existed.

Jesus fuck, I have a REAL LIFE to contend with too.

And yeah, my debating's shit because I can't pull up quotes or sources without falling so far behind I wouldn't be able to come back. There's one of me and like 6 of you, I can only do so much.

I'm actually a fairly good debater, seeing as most of the C/A shippers won't touch this place because most of you lack the capacity to be polite to people who don't agree with you. I'm sorry, but you always want people to debate with and then you TREAT THEM LIKE SHIT. Despite the LTD constantly being drama fucking central, it IS possible to debate and not make personal attacks and be ugly.