So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Ryushikaze]

I never said that's not what initially made her take interest in him. I do agree with that sentiment. But it's really not because she's harboring secret love for Zack, and it doesn't mean she wasn't ever close to cloud

It's not a 'secret love for Zack', but 'lingering emotions' And we are told the reason she acts as she does towards Cloud in FF7 are revealed in CC, and we see in CC.
She repeats Zack's flirtations verbatim, and lies about how serious they were (89 letters, one a fortnight isn't "It wasn't serious" no matter how you spin it), so the idea that she was subconsciously chasing the phantom of her first love even as she tried to move on both fits the clues and is a well understood occurrence.

I was talking about Dissidia. There is no reference to Aerith.

There's one, actually. And it's a reference to Zack, too.
In any case, the VII Crystal is just a materia. Same as I- IV's are just a crystal of their worlds, VI's is just a Magicite, V's is just a crystal shard, 10 is just a sphere, etc. Until otherwise, I'm sticking to the idea they're all generic, not specific examples.

 

[KissTheRain]

Okay, okay I skimmed across the last 10 pages from last night and even though this is like necroying old points i'm gonna do it anyway. /:

Fine, let the fucking materia represent Aerith. Sephiroth said it's something Cloud despises.

Honestly, I don't think the materia represented Aerith, but if it did maybe he hates the materia because it reminds Cloud of her death and that upsets him. ;o;

nor are most couples old enough to be having kids.

Hello, Ryu teenage pregnancy much?

Ah, well it's still BS. Tifa is in just as much extras as Aerith is.

Yeah, but people like Aerith more. http://stars.ign.com/articles/861/861824p1.html

Despite Barret not living at 7th heaven anymore. And the family being constantly described as a family of 4.

Yes it's Tifa, left breast, right breast, and maybe uhm...Cloud?

I have such a low tolerence level right now.

Happeh nao?!

Can someone just seriously debate the fucking facts

That facts are Clod and Aeristh are in KH together and meet so it's the end of the stury and the yare cununzz. T_T

 

[Makoeyes987]

LOL Aerith's "secret love for Zack."

Wow.

gb2/CC

Anyways,

Spoiler

Cloud's crystal is not something he despises for one. Sephiroth only said that to make him waver and fuck with him. It was a statement that if Cloud moved forward, he'd suffer more, so he should just accept his role as a puppet and not embrace his own destiny. I wouldn't use Sephiroth's words to Cloud as proof of anything.

That said, the crystal is not Holy, nor is it stated as being connected to ANYONE. It's a giant piece of materia. Period.

The flowers are more indicative of a reference to Aerith, but again. How does that stack up to anything?

Spoiler

Especially when Squall's standing in the same damn flower field with him?

You know, while you folks keep talking about those flowers, why don't you grab one of these?

 

[Isabella]

You know Mako, I asked that last night and my post was ignored. So what if there's a reference to Aerith in there? There are references to Zack, maybe Tifa, and a shitload of references to the game in general. What does it have to do with the LTD? I mean, is the "train" quote in there? If so, wouldn't that be a reference to Barrett? And would that be evidence of Cloud's hidden love for Barrett then?

 

[Makoeyes987]

The train quote was in there but good ole' S-E USA buggered the translation up

That's my fucking point. So it's a reference to Aerith, just like everything else. You're seriously gonna try to label that as proof positive for something? Because if you do, then you've just undercut your own argument seeing as how the entire story references other people too. So yeah, c'mon...

 

[Ryushikaze]

Okay, okay I skimmed across the last 10 pages from last night and even though this is like necroying old points i'm gonna do it anyway. /:

Honestly, I don't think the materia represented Aerith, but if it did maybe he hates the materia because it reminds Cloud of her death and that upsets him. ;o;

No, it's 'what he despises' because it means more unceasing battles without clear reason.

Hello, Ryu teenage pregnancy much?

Yes, and? They are physically capable of having kids, but I still say they are too young for it.

Yeah, but people like Aerith more. http://stars.ign.com/articles/861/861824p1.html

IGN is not the entire fandom.
Unless you want to allow that their statement that Tifa is Cloud's girlfriend to stand...

Yes it's Tifa, left breast, right breast, and maybe uhm...Cloud?

Cloud's wang, actually.

That facts are Clod and Aeristh are in KH together and meet so it's the end of the stury and the yare cununzz. T_T

Dephoneticize that nonsense, because it's proving impossible to parse. Addendum: Nevermind. Snark parsed.
Besides, KH2, natch.

LOL Aerith's "secret love for Zack."

Wow.

gb2/CC

Anyways,

Spoiler

Cloud's crystal is not something he despises for one. Sephiroth only said that to make him waver and fuck with him. It was a statement that if Cloud moved forward, he'd suffer more, so he should just accept his role as a puppet and not embrace his own destiny. I wouldn't use Sephiroth's words to Cloud as proof of anything.

Well, I think it's a true statement, just phrased manipulatively.

That said, the crystal is not Holy, nor is it stated as being connected to ANYONE. It's a giant piece of materia. Period.

Pretty much.
Except it's a fake, even then.

The flowers are more indicative of a reference to Aerith, but again. How does that stack up to anything?

Spoiler

Especially when Squall's standing in the same damn flower field with him?

Lerith. TTLY.

 

[Vendel]

I think our new Clerith got pissed and went on youtube to vent. (jk of course)

Why must you people always fucking spam up a fucking god damn fucking video with your god damn shitty pieces of shit spam "Love Triangle Debate" comments. Fuckin' a, man. Quit it the fuck out already, please!
You don't have any clue how big of a douchebag you all are making yourselves out to be. For your sakes, stop arguing over a god damn video game love story already. Arguing this won't change a damn thing. SO STOP!
...............
Guys, it's pretty damn clear that Cloud's love interest is Aeris/th.

Sorry to say it but, anyone claiming he loves anyone else are just in denial. I mean, I fucking hate both the damn girls in this fucking game but I can at least admit Cloud loved Aerith.

But srsly, does it even fucking matter?

*Srsly get off the internetz dudes.*

I think we can all figure out the real reason for this rant. Do not go gentle into that good night. RAGE RAGE against the dying of the light youtard!

 

[Makoeyes987]

Guys, it's pretty damn clear that Cloud's love interest is Aeris/th.

Sorry to say it but, anyone claiming he loves anyone else are just in denial. I mean, I fucking hate both the damn girls in this fucking game but I can at least admit Cloud loved Aerith.

I just love how they make these assured assertions but are chicken shit when it comes to just saying why. I mean, wow. That's just great.

 

[Ryushikaze]

And if it's denial to say he didn't romantically love Aerith, I'm sure they can point to oodles of indicators that he did, right.


RIGHT?

[crickets]

Thought so.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Ryu, remember. It's all up to interpretation. There's just as much evidence for Tifa as there is Aerith, that's why there's no real conclusion to the LTD and Aerith is the one Cloud truly loves. S-E is just gonna milk the LTD and there will be no conclusion, because Cloud loves Aerith and that's a fact. Cloud and Tifa are not happy together and they aren't even fit for each other. She's like a woman who's been left by her man, because Cloud and Tifa were never together and he's with Aerith. Koi Bito means a sweet person, and Cloud is Aerith's koibitio and lover. Tifa's a LIKE a lover, which really doesn't mean lover but nice person.

There's no conclusion to the LTD. Cloud loves Aerith.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Ryu, remember. It's all up to interpretation. There's just as much evidence for Tifa as there is Aerith, that's why there's no real conclusion to the LTD and Aerith is the one Cloud truly loves. S-E is just gonna milk the LTD and there will be no conclusion, because Cloud loves Aerith and that's a fact. Cloud and Tifa are not happy together and they aren't even fit for each other. She's like a woman who's been left by her man, because Cloud and Tifa were never together and he's with Aerith. Koi Bito means a sweet person, and Cloud is Aerith's koibitio and lover. Tifa's a LIKE a lover, which really doesn't mean lover but nice person.

There's no conclusion to the LTD. Cloud loves Aerith.

Yep. That sums up the double standard pretty handily, yes.

C/T necessary evidence must be Notary signed and sealed in triplicate under the eye of a judge, a priest, and a lebanese talking monkey.

C/A necessary evidence- Cloud says the word Aerith. Or doesn't. Or she appears. Or doesn't. Or flowers appear. Or she's called a comrade, or anything, really. It's about winning, not coherency.

 

[Vendel]

Yep. That sums up the double standard pretty handily, yes.

C/T necessary evidence must be Notary signed and sealed in triplicate under the eye of a judge, a priest, and a lebanese talking monkey.

C/A necessary evidence- Cloud says the word Aerith. Or doesn't. Or she appears. Or doesn't. Or flowers appear. Or she's called a comrade, or anything, really. It's about winning, not coherency.

I'm epically fond of the "C/T living together with children means nothing" argument. Of course normally followed up with or preceded by "Cloud loves Aerith". It causes my logic circuits to short out.

 

[Makoeyes987]

You don't LIVE with people you love!!!

You go visit them. You visit them in the wilderness and flowers while they're DEAD and go talk to them and never ever get to touch them because they're DEAD and everyone knows TRUE LOVE is found in DEATH not LIFE. You don't actually TOUCH people you love and stuff. That's just sex and sex isn't love.

...Or maybe you do touch them and fuck their ethereal brains out. Which ever works. As long as they're DEAD.

 

[Reith123]

now im upset c/t was never meant to be! wahh! im crushed!

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

Aw, I missed shit...

I'm not sure if Like Vines will come back, because there've been Cleriths who've popped up and then disappeared before, but if she does, I have a few things to say:

And yeah, my debating's shit because I can't pull up quotes or sources without falling so far behind I wouldn't be able to come back.

I think the quality of your arguments would help your position more, rather than the speed or quantity of your replies. No one will respect your "good" debating skills when you say stuff like

lololol okay. I'll come back with quotes when I feel like it but suffice to say: NO.

Basically, you don't respect the debate at hand enough to come armed with points and quotes (you don't "feel" like it, yet you hang around to argue) - but you demand the respect of people who are better informed about the topic than you are, and are debating here seriously.

And finally,

Really? Generally when someone is engraved in someone else's heart it's not because they were pretty good friends.

Really? Generally, when a man lives with a woman he's not related to, and they raise two children together, it's not because they were pretty good friends.

 

[Makoeyes987]

If there's one thing you can always bank your money on...

It's that they never come back. They come, they "debate" (if you can call it that) and then....make a "strategic retreat" to "gather evidence" or "deal with IRL."

They're worst than the Turks.

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

They're worse than the Turks.

At least the Turks come back.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Hence them being worst.

At least Reno and Rude would come back and try again.

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

Hence them being worse.

At least Reno and Rude would come back and try again.

I agree. I can see Rude as a Clerith, though.

I, for one, am torn; I'd like a good debate, but it doesn't help the discussion much if they come back and all they're going to say is "cloud loves aerith lololol i cba to prove it but i say he does lololol and i will conveniently ignore posts that prove otherwise while saying unfounded things like 'squex has proven time and time again that cloud and tifa aren't together.' "

...

lololol

 

[Ryushikaze]

I agree. I can see Rude as a Clerith, though.

He has a stake in Tifa being single, natch.

I, for one, am torn; I'd like a good debate, but it doesn't help the discussion much if they come back and all they're going to say is "cloud loves aerith lololol i cba to prove it but i say he does lololol and i will conveniently ignore posts that prove otherwise while saying unfounded things like 'squex has proven time and time again that cloud and tifa aren't together.' "

...

lololol

That's actually not debate. It's just screaming your claim over and over, which is the antithesis of debate.

 

[Madame Mayor]

At least any doubt I ever had in Cloud and Tifa being canon is wiped away by the fact that the most devoted fans of the opposition can't even come up with evidence or an argument that makes any sense.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Aw, I missed shit...

I'm not sure if Like Vines will come back, because there've been Cleriths who've popped up and then disappeared before

And there's Cleriths like me that get converted to neutral. :p

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Well now... I've read a bunch of pages that have amounted to exactly squat in terms of proving Cloud loved Aerith. At all. In fact, it seems the majority of the Clerith arguments are to debunk Cloti. It's not: "Cloud loves Aerith and this is why and how [insert facts]..." It's "Cloud doesn't love Tifa cuz I say so, so Aerith wins! lol ffff and pffffft"

I mean, how hard can it be to come up with ONE creator statement or ONE scene that shows ROMANTIC interest on Cloud's part. ONE? Is that too much to ask for? **sigh**

Apparently.

I do, however, love the "I have a real life" retreat.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

And there's Cleriths like me that get converted to neutral. :p

There is nothing wrong with being "Clerith" or preferring that pairing. But as far as the narrative and compilation go, the romantic couples are clearly defined. It doesn't take away from the other pairings as far as liking them goes, but there are people that just can't accept that.

The fact that you are willing to consider the narrative and compilation as a whole is awesome!

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Well now... I've read a bunch of pages that have amounted to exactly squat in terms of proving Cloud loved Aerith. At all. In fact, it seems the majority of the Clerith arguments are to debunk Cloti. It's not: "Cloud loves Aerith and this is why and how [insert facts]..." It's "Cloud doesn't love Tifa cuz I say so, so Aerith wins! lol ffff and pffffft"

I mean, how hard can it be to come up with ONE creator statement or ONE scene that shows ROMANTIC interest on Cloud's part. ONE? Is that too much to ask for? **sigh**

Apparently.

I do, however, love the "I have a real life" retreat.

I know, that's a total cop-out. No one who posts on these forums is allowed to have a life, it's in the forum rules when you register.