So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Dashell]

Oh ... well it was just that... you said evolution... and... sorry yeah you're right, forget I brought it up. It's just something I found interesting.

In fact I"m gonna edit my post so no one gets offended.

 

[paoo]

Your not neccisarly rabid for interpreting the scene different. Yes you could be dilussional, possibly slow, or maybe just have a different opinion doesn't always make them "rabid".

What do you mean by different, then? That Tifa got rejected? That Cloud really hates her? All I see is denial here.

I don't know how many times I have said this, but when I say rabids, I mean the rabids. Not all the Clerith fans. Don't... compare me with Vendel or something

And I'm sorry if someone saw it different than me and alot of others.. I just don't know how you can see it as Tifa getting rejected when they are sleeping together in that pose, and it fades to black.

 

[Vendel]

Because most of the other couples aren't engaged in a heated ltd that has been nothing encouraged the past decade, and that the rival pairing has had enough evidence to be considered an official pairing as well, if the other hadn't existed?

Cloud/Aerith never had enough evidence to be considered a real pairing. I think years of fan wank have gotten to you Splint.

And just because this this particular 'ship' war has been going on longer than the tard fest that are the Harry potter or Avatar fandoms does not make it any less tarded.

In fact with everything that has come out compilation wise it makes it more so.


Edit:This post was so epic it broke the forum.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

This arguement really just boils down to, what do you think SE is trying to say, and do you take the interviews with a grain of salt. Personally, I take whatever they dish out drowned in a sea of salt.

Then ignore the interviews. **shrug** Because compilation speaks for itself.

Definition time, kids:

Canon, in terms of a fictional universe, is a body of material that is considered to be "genuine" or "official", that can be directly referenced as, or as if it were, material produced by the original author or creator of a series...

So yes, there IS a canon pairing. A couple of them. And they ARE canon by the very fact that they exist within the canon material. SE does NOT ever need to confirm that in an interview, because that's irrelevant. In fact, I think it's hilarious that anyone thinks SE and Co. give a rats ass about the ltd. They don't. Really, they don't have stake in it, and it's honestly NOT a profitable margin for them. LTDers are by and large a very, VERY small section of the FFVII fandom.

It's not like I don't get what you guys are saying. I really, really do. But I guess it just takes more for me.

What I gleaned from your posts is that you love the idea of Cloti, somehow think Cloud had a hard-on for Aerith and that there's some SE reluctance to make the "big reveal"...which was pretty much done in the Lifestream event, Crisis Core and ALL of ACC. **shocking**

I, for one, have these things called "comprehension skills" and I use them. It saves me from needing to be spoon fed the answers.

 

[Vendel]

It made it seem that they developed a strong familial structure, but it could have happened without them actually becoming boyfriend/girlfriend or what have you.

I mean, it's probable that they did. But you can't disagree that it's ENTIRETY out the realm of possibility that they didn't.

I missed this earlier.

But just because there is the mere possibility of something does not mean that very existence overrides what is plainly laid out.

We have been over this several times. But for two people in Cloud and Tifa's situation the burden of proof is on someone saying they are not in a relationship. You don't have to prove that they are.

If I see someone sitting down on a chair I will assume they are sitting in it. Not hovering just above it. Sure they could be doing that. But I wont say that I can't prove they are siting down because of it. And I don't have to try and put my hand under their ass either.

 

[Eerie]

@Splint: I used to be like you. I used to think that SE stayed vague on purpose and would never solve anything - however, that was before I became aware of the compilation.

I personally think that the compilation gives you a clear answer as to who Cloud loves and is romantically with. There's no possible way to misinterpret this when you put all the clues together. For example, the little chat between Barret and Cid in Case of Barret about Barret who helped Cloud and Tifa build THEIR home, and Cid commenting how they moved on together, and how Tifa wore the pants in their relationship... that didn't have to be there if it wasn't SE saying 'hey look, Cloud and Tifa ARE together'. This is typically a natural conversation between friends commenting on the blooming relationship of two other friends. There's nothing to twist around, it's just there, being commented - and if there was nothing to be said about it, then Nojima wouldn't have put it in. But he put it in to be sure that the readers would know, just by reading those lines, that yes, Cloud and Tifa were together.

And that's just one clue amongst others; the risqué scene, how they belong together, Tifa being someone's lover and the mother of Cloud's family, where Cloud is the father [and not some brother for Denzel], etc, etc. And paralleling that, SE developping Zack/Aerith so much that many fans fell in love with it.

I don't think a lot of people need a PhD to add 1 and 1, just like you definitely don't need one to understand that whithin the compilation, yes, Cloud and Tifa are romantically involved.

The funny thing is that one of my best friends is a Clerith/Zerith [she loves Aerith] and it upsets her a lot when people deny that CloTi is canon [and she hates CloTi and Tifa lol!].

 

[paoo]

But there are actually Clerith quotes that are there for a reason, too.

"I believe, for those who formerly traveled with her as comrades and for the viewers, each carries their own feelings and loves for Aerith. In this story, Cloud also carries his own undying feeling for Aerith even to this very day."

Alright, they seperate Cloud's feelings from the others. But the others also carries their own feelings for Aerith, as Cloud does. Expect that they added "undying" on Cloud's part. But.. Cloud have his own feelings for Aerith, so that doesn't have to mean friendship.

Or...? This is so confusing. o_o

 

[Ryushikaze]

But there are actually Clerith quotes that are there for a reason, too.

Alright, they seperate Cloud's feelings from the others. But the others also carries their own feelings for Aerith, as Cloud does. Expect that they added "undying" on Cloud's part. But.. Cloud have his own feelings for Aerith, so that doesn't have to mean friendship.

Or...? This is so confusing. o_o

Corrections-
1. It is the fans, not the allies who carry the love and the feelings.
2. Cloud's feelings are just that, feelings. This is odd given the usage of love- specifically, Ai- from the fans, if it these feelings meant to indicate a greater emotion than the specified, to refer back to the generic and (as is assumed through most languages, lesser and less important through their not being worth actual mention) unspecified emotions.
3. This is a Nomura teaser quote. It neglects to include the bit 'As for what his meeting in the church will bring, I'll let the movie show that...' bit at the end.
It can probably be seen along the same lines as Kairi and Namine have no connection, since it tells us nothing, especially not that what these feelings are, much less that they are romantic. The movie and various other sources would tell us these undying feelings 'to this day' are those of his guilt, and his meeting brings alleviation, as he is zen koaned into forgiving himself.

Further, Syne brings up a decent point- which I will now make blunt and crude.
FUCK PREFERENCE.
It's about the canon. Not what you like, not what you prefer, but what is THERE.

 

[Tennyo]

I guess it's not enough evidence because it doesn't convince everybody?

In the same way that evolution doesn't convince everybody?

Oh snap.

How about the fact that some peeps deny the Holocaust and that Obama is a US citizen. IN YOUR FACE REAL LIFE FACTS TO BACK THIS STUFF UP and yet a few people somehow missed the memo on the truth.

Or how about it took me a very, VERY long time to understand the plot of Total Recall. I thought that it was all in his head and that he wasn't really a spy whose buried memories were dug up. In fact to this day I'm still not 100% on it all. Doesn't mean that if someone explained it to me with facts or director statements that I could just deny it or twist it to suit whatever idea I had in the past if it is negated.

People confuse stuff all the time and fail to miss facts, and sometimes interpret facts differently. But this doesn't mean that every thing is up for interpretations and that we can just all walk around willy nilly believing whatever we want about everything. Sometimes there really is just a right and a wrong.

 

[Celes Chere]

Cloud have his own feelings for Aerith, so that doesn't have to mean friendship.

They have a special bond. More than friends, less than lovers.

 

[A]

Believing that a certain pairing is canon does not make the person rabid. Pushing other people and belittling them for whichever pairing they think is canon is being rabid. It's really, not hard to get.

Alright, they seperate Cloud's feelings from the others. But the others also carries their own feelings for Aerith, as Cloud does. Expect that they added "undying" on Cloud's part. But.. Cloud have his own feelings for Aerith, so that doesn't have to mean friendship.

Or...? This is so confusing. o_o

Actually, because of the word "also," they have added in on Cloud's part, it's highly possible that all of them carry undying feelings for Aerith, but they don't necessarily have to be romantic feelings. Unless it's proved that these 'undying feelings' are feelings of love, I don't think the word itself should automatically be used to show that Cloud ever had romantic feelings for Aerith.

They have a special bond. More than friends, less than lovers.

Cloud and Sephiroth are said to have a special bond as well.

 

[Tennyo]

That's because Clephiroth is canon. I concede, you all win. *shudders*





























but I'll always love Clack

 

[paoo]

Ah, thanks all for correcting. I guess I'm a little brain-washed.. <_< Do you blame me?

What the hell. WHAT THE HELL. SephirothxAerith is canon, haven't you seen the Amano pic?!

Spoiler

FOREVAAAAAAAAAAAAH! Actually, that looks like Cecil and Rosa.

 

[Eerie]

It's a bit OT, but... am I the only one who's really freaked out by Amano's art? XD I'm used to Japanese traditional art, but when I see his own art, every time, I'm freaked out lol XD

 

[Fairheartstrife]

^ Glad I'm not the only one.

 

[looneymoon]

Sometimes... his people can look like manequin people and not always like people, people :|

 

[KissTheRain]

Believing that a certain pairing is canon does not make the person rabid. Pushing other people and belittling them for whichever pairing they think is canon is being rabid. It's really, not hard to get.

That's exactly what I think, thanks for putting it simply, A.

 

[Splintered]

People confuse stuff all the time and fail to miss facts, and sometimes interpret facts differently. But this doesn't mean that every thing is up for interpretations and that we can just all walk around willy nilly believing whatever we want about everything. Sometimes there really is just a right and a wrong.

Agreed, so let's for the moment accept that Cloud/Tifa is canon, or as close to canon as anything Cloud is going to get.

What say about Cloud's relationship before Aerith's death? Surely at least that's up to interpretation, right? Especially since you get to chose your own way you interact. Or Cloud's feelings for Aerith to be as simple as guilt?

If we are talking about reading comprehension, there were obvious hints all around that there was something more than platonic there even if it was "more than friends, less that lovers." I agree with Isabella said previously that Aerith was a red herring, but then it wouldn't make at least Cloud/Aerith seem possible to lots of fans?

tl;dr:
If Cloud/Tifa is not up to any interpretation, absolutely positively it must be this way and we neutrals are all fools that obviously have secondary comprehension skills for not accepting this stone hard fact, then is Cloud/Aerith predeath like this or was there room left for fans to speculate

I, for one, have these things called "comprehension skills" and I use them. It saves me from needing to be spoon fed the answers.

oic.

It's a bit OT, but... am I the only one who's really freaked out by Amano's art? XD I'm used to Japanese traditional art, but when I see his own art, every time, I'm freaked out lol XD

No, definitely not. I remember when I first stumbled into an ltd and had no real knowledge about FF, and people starting spamming the Cloud/Aerith Amano art to prove it was canon and I went, "lol, what's going with that guy?"


I tried hard to make this post sound as not snooty as possible, but eh.

 

[Hinata Hyuga]

What I think is that, like SE said, both Aerith and Tifa have feelings for Cloud, but Cloud on disc 1 is 'none the wiser' to them. But as for Cloud's affections, I think the player is given some sway on his feelings while he is under Jenova's influence, so he could have affection for one or both of them based on the options you choose.

And I guess if the player was nicer to Aerith, then it would make sense for him to have some lingering affection for her that wasn't just guilt or him thinking of her as just a friend.

But the fact that SE says Cloud was unaware of either girls' feelings early on and speaks of Cloud/Aerith as a completely hypothetical relationship means there is no way there was ever a confession or a relationship between Cloud and Aerith.

And regardless of whether you choose to flirt and be sweet to Aerith, he still loves Tifa and starts a relationship/begins a life with her.

 

[Dashell]

What say about Cloud's relationship before Aerith's death? Surely at least that's up to interpretation, right? Especially since you get to chose your own way you interact. Or Cloud's feelings for Aerith to be as simple as guilt?

I concur with this very much but only while Aerith was alive. After the lifestream event, it's no longer up for interpretation.

 

[Smaddy]

It's a bit OT, but... am I the only one who's really freaked out by Amano's art? XD I'm used to Japanese traditional art, but when I see his own art, every time, I'm freaked out lol XD

I'm a fan of Amano's work, but yes he does have some strange-looking stuff. The faces can tend to look alike- that pic of Aeris/Seph for example, that looks almost like Setzer and Terra from FF6.

But my personal standpoint- I think Amano's work has a lot more feeling and action to it than Nomura's. Nomura's seem to be very cold and stiff. I guess that's the kind of art they needed to do the 3D graphics and all, but still...

And in regards to the topic at hand, I try to let people have their opinions on the LTD, but I have to say- to say Cloud x Aeris is canon because Amano drew them together is a bunch of crapola. I hope they know there's also a lot of Amano art of Cloud with Nanaki. So by the same token, does that make them some kind of couple, too?

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Edgar/Celes Amano art. That is all.

 

[KissTheRain]

The question really is is Nomura or Amano hotter, people? My vote is for Amano he has facial hair. (:

 

[Splintered]

I'm a fan of Amano's work, but yes he does have some strange-looking stuff. The faces can tend to look alike- that pic of Aeris/Seph for example, that looks almost like Setzer and Terra from FF6.

But my personal standpoint- I think Amano's work has a lot more feeling and action to it than Nomura's. Nomura's seem to be very cold and stiff. I guess that's the kind of art they needed to do the 3D graphics and all, but still...

Nomura's art is more boring and plain, but concept art is suppose to be I guess. For the most part, Amano's people have always been strange to me, but I think he draws the female characters better than the males. Sephiroth looks like he's on crack, but I think he does Terra beautifully.

Spoiler

 

[Smaddy]

I think Amano's illustration of Sephiroth there is pretty awesome, actually. Better than Nomura's, IMO.