So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[KissTheRain]

I like Amano more really because I think he is more original and artistic. Not saying I don't like Nomura's designs, but he is a bit of a rip off, lol.

For example, lets compare FFIX the game by Amano that came just before Nomura's game FFX.

IX-Upbeat hero, and proper main heroine that apologizes frequently.
X-Upbeat optimistic character(compared to his usually emo ones), and go figure a proper main heroine that apologizes frequently.

IX-Focus of game is around main heroine and everyone wants to save/please her sorta kinda
X-all of the above

IX-Summoner main heroine
X-^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

IX-Suspected gay villian (Kuja)
X-^That (Seymour)

And there is more. O:

Okay, okay now LTD. So I was flipping through my Game Informer today and I stumbled across a Cloud statue in his VII outfit standing over flowers, ZOMG CLERISTH FEREVER!!!111. Yea...

 

[Makoeyes987]

...You do realize Amano didn't do the character designs for IX, right?

They were done by Toshiyuki Itahana. And he didn't write the character or make them up. And you do realize there we upbeat heroes since FFV. And summoners have been main characters since FFIV. You're making no sense there.

And Kuja is not even close to gay, given the fact he flirts with Garnet. Same goes for Seymour trying to marry Yuna. Anyone who thinks they're gay is stupid. Seymour's not even effeminat like Kuja.

Just...wtf?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Maybe for a creator to finally stop being so passive aggressive and go, "Hey, they are together. They are in a mutual romantic relationship." Or a truly definitive scene that shows their relationship in a truly romantic light post FFVII.

Too bad Nojima and Nomura already did that.

I'm not arguing that there isn't romance between them, there's clearly that sexual tension and evidence. But like I said, everything is so vague, and the vagueness is done intentionally so fans can infer what they wish. Or at least wrote in a way that there is wiggle room for varying interpretations.

There's nothing vague about Tifa being equated to a lover of Cloud, Cloud and Tifa raising a family together, or Nojima stating he wrote Case of Tifa with his thoughts of love, family, and marriage in mind between the two. There is nothing vague at all about that. How much more does it have to be slammed into your head? What is vague or unclear about the dynamic of their relationship?

It's not like I'm intentionally closing my eyes screaming "NO I DON'T WANNA SEE IT!!11" and then pressing back button, and going to strange websites with huge essays to reaffirm my beliefs. I love Cloud/Tifa, if Nomura came out tapdancing and saying "Yes, Cloti is canon" (tap dancing because who wouldn't want to see that) that would be awesome. Internet fucking party. But it hasn't happened yet, we've got passive aggressive bullshiting answers and a couple of novels that have the word "koibito."

Again. Nomura said Tifa is Cloud's lover. Period. Where's the tapdancing?

 

[Dashell]

You need to stop taking KtR's post so seriously XD (or do I need to start taking them more seriously?)

oh and there's another post. Yeah good post Mako... I mean it's one thing when the Cleriths come up with their own set of evidence, but I just don't get these people that see Cloti evidence, acknowledge it, say it's legit, wave off the Clerith "evidence" and still say "There isn't a canon couple."

It confuses Quexinos it does

 

[I Am Not Me]

...You do realize Amano didn't do the character designs for IX, right?

They were done by Toshiyuki Itahana. And he didn't write the character or make them up. And you do realize there we upbeat heroes since FFV. And summoners have been main characters since FFIV. You're making no sense there.

And Kuja is not even close to gay, given the fact he flirts with Garnet. Same goes for Seymour trying to marry Yuna. Anyone who thinks they're gay is stupid. Seymour's not even effeminat like Kuja.

Just...wtf?

Pretty much this.

IDK what you're on KTR, but that was just silly.

I, for one, like Nomura's designs (illustrations) better. Maybe because they're simpler and more straightforward (aka easier to copy ). Amano's is a bit more...er...not. He's more intricate and brushy and artistic and stuff. Not to say they're not awesome, they're just not my kind of thing. This is coming from a 13 year old fangirl who can only draw in anime style with a mechanical pencil, so yeah.

Sephiroth looks like he's on crack

Yeah, he does. But he looks pretty cool in that pictar.


Why are we discussing Amano's artworks here anyhow? Did someone claim the canon for Amano's art again? Did anyone bring out the RedxCloud pic yet?

 

[Vendel]

What say about Cloud's relationship before Aerith's death? Surely at least that's up to interpretation, right? Especially since you get to chose your own way you interact. Or Cloud's feelings for Aerith to be as simple as guilt?

That is kind of a point a lot of people don't get. Your actions on the first disk are meaningless. You could name Cloud Jack Mehoff, date Barret and never even meet Vincent or Yuffie.

And yes it can be as simple as guilt. All of Cloud's failures weigh heavily on him. Since childhood.

If we are talking about reading comprehension, there were obvious hints all around that there was something more than platonic there even if it was "more than friends, less that lovers."

From Aerith maybe. From Cloud? Not so much.

I agree with Isabella said previously that Aerith was a red herring, but then it wouldn't make at least Cloud/Aerith seem possible to lots of fans?

It can't be a red herring and possible. You either comprehend that or you don't. Clerith's don't.

 

[Dashell]

It can't be a red herring and possible.

The problem is, as you said some people don't understand that it was a red herring. That's the point I think Splintered was trying to make.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I like Amano more really because I think he is more original and artistic. Not saying I don't like Nomura's designs, but he is a rip off in many ways imo.

For example, lets compare FFIX the game by Amano that came just before Nomura's game FFX.

IX-Upbeat hero, and proper main heroine that apologizes frequently.
X-Upbeat optimistic character(compared to his usually emo ones), and go figure a proper main heroine that apologizes frequently.

IX-Focus of game is around main heroine and everyone wants to save/please her sorta kinda
X-all of the above

IX-Summoner main heroine
X-^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

IX-Suspected gay villian (Kuja)
X-^That (Seymour)

And there is more. T_T /rant

Okay, okay now LTD. So I was flipping through my Game Informer today and I stumbled across a Cloud statue in his VII outfit standing over flowers, ZOMG CLERISTH FEREVER!!!111. Yea...

I know you're joking, but how come people actually try and throw that one as ZOMFG True proofs, but ignore the statues where C/T and Z/A having paired bases?

...You do realize Amano didn't do the character designs for IX, right?

They were done by Toshiyuki Itahana. And he didn't write the character or make them up. And you do realize there we upbeat heroes since FFV. And summoners have been main characters since FFIV. You're making no sense there.

He's listed as a concept designer, so it's at least an understandable mistake, but I think he did monsters not characters.
And Edge was fairly upbeat in 4, as were the OK in 3, and as mentioned, Bartz in 5.

And Kuja is not even close to gay, given the fact he flirts with Garnet. Same goes for Seymour trying to marry Yuna. Anyone who thinks they're gay is stupid. Seymour's not even effeminat like Kuja.

Oh. Kuja's gay. She's just... okay obvious joke is obvious.
But yeah, Seymour's no Kuja. He acts nothing like the guy.

It can't be a red herring and possible. You either comprehend that or you don't. Clerith's don't.

No, but it can SEEM possible without being the case. It's the definition of a red herring, a misleading, seemingly genuine clue.
The problem is that a lot of people refuse to realize they've been hit with a fish.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

There's nothing vague about Tifa being equated to a lover of Cloud, Cloud and Tifa raising a family together, or Nojima stating he wrote Case of Tifa with his thoughts of love, family, and marriage in mind between the two. There is nothing vague at all about that. How much more does it have to be slammed into your head? What is vague or unclear about the dynamic of their relationship?

While this is absolutely correct, I think that whoever you're addressing this to means more of vague within the frame of the original game that said couple is featured in. To be fair, there aren't many games where the love interests acts like an established, grounded couple like in real life, as in doing stuff like, going on dates, talking about their anniversary, how long they've been together, having sex (I give props to Xenogears for doing this), having sex more than once (which can still be presented in a mature, non tacky way), kissing and physical displays of affection and so on, discussing stuff like ex boyfriends, cheating, or whatever.

Actual, real life, relationship stuff that established couples do. Not everything I listed would have to happen all at one time in the same game with the same couple, but I haven't seen it too much.

 

[Vendel]

To be fair, there aren't many games where the love interests acts like an established, grounded couple like in real life, as in doing stuff like, going on dates, talking about their anniversary, how long they've been together, having sex (I give props to Xenogears for doing this), having sex more than once (which can still be presented in a mature, non tacky way), kissing and physical displays of affection and so on, discussing stuff like ex boyfriends, cheating, or whatever.

Well thank goodness for Baldur's Gate 2 and it's expansion. Nothing says relationship like knocking up the impressionable circus girl.

 

[KissTheRain]

...You do realize Amano didn't do the character designs for IX, right?

Oh really? I wasn't aware actually. I believed there was someone else that did that designs, but I thought he was the main one. /dumbass needs to read more about FFIX. U_U

And the rest of my post I was just being a douche bag, not serious just a bad form of me stating that I think Nomura is losing some of his originality, no offense to anyone.

But yeah, Seymour's no Kuja. He acts nothing like the guy.

Lawlz, I know I know just they've both come off as a bit effeminate in some parts imo that's all. Only kidding really though!

You need to stop taking KtR's post so seriously XD

THANK YOU QUE!

And so a big chunk of you know many won't think that Cloud/Tifa is canon until a)They are married b)She is knocked up with a blonde baby. For me it's the latter.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

And so a big chunk of you know many won't think that Cloud/Tifa is canon until a)They are married b)She is knocked up with a blonde baby. For me it's the latter.

or c)When he is knocked up with a brown eyed and brown haired baby.

 

[Dashell]

That would be little Reith

 

[Ryushikaze]

What if they adopt a kid? Or if Denz is referred to as 'their/our kid?' And must it be marriage? What about a kiss?
Why must the standard be so high?

 

[KissTheRain]

Because the whole idea of AC is a family full of friends imo so until Cloud pops the question he is still at friend status.






But a kiss would do too.

 

[Dashell]

I love how the creators of the series saying that they're a couple does nothing for some people

 

[Madame Mayor]

I think that whoever you're addressing this to means more of vague within the frame of the original game that said couple is featured in.

The impression I've been getting is the opposite actually, that with everything we've been given, creators statements and all, we still haven't been told Cloud and Tifa are together. That is what was being argued, right?

Maybe for a creator to finally stop being so passive aggressive and go, "Hey, they are together. They are in a mutual romantic relationship."

Inside, I felt one thing was for sure: Cloud and Tifa would be together.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Because the whole idea of AC is a family full of friends imo so until Cloud pops the question he is still at friend status.

No... the whole idea of AC is NOT 'a family full of friends'
Where did you get that from?

But a kiss would do too.

How about doing something risque the night before the end of the world?

 

[KissTheRain]

No... the whole idea of AC is NOT 'a family full of friends'
Where did you get that from?

No, I know it's not, but my interpretation of AC's theme was family. Along with maybe forgiveness and such.

How about doing something risque the night before the end of the world?

Extreme naked Twister does not always equal canon.

 

[Dashell]

You missed this:

Inside, I felt one thing was for sure: Cloud and Tifa would be together.

I felt one thing was for sure: Cloud and Tifa would be together.

Cloud and Tifa would be together.

And I swear that's the last time I'll do that

No... the whole idea of AC is NOT 'a family full of friends'

I've seen this... I should try and find it there's a quote from CoT that they're using to say this.

 

[Dashell]

Friends were a necessity to me so that I could live on without being supressed by the sins in my consciousness. Even if they were fellow companions that had the same wounds. Even if they were fellow companions who were burdened with the same sins. We couldn’t live without comforting each other and encouraging each other.

Maybe you could call that family. We just had to keep the family together and do our best.

I think that's it... she says "friends blah blah blah and maybe you can call that a family." I think that's where the family of friends comes from.

OH and then:

Tifa thought she could get over anything while being with friends that she could call her family.

 

[Vendel]

I think that's it... she says "friends blah blah blah and maybe you can call that a family." I think that's where the family of friends comes from.

OH and then:

This was right after Barret left. To me it seems like she is talking about Avalanche. Didn't they all live at the old 7th Heaven?

Tifa had been living with friends for awhile. But when she says this it will just be her, Cloud and Marlene. Maybe she is just worried that she wouldn't be surrounded by lots of people?

 

[I Am Not Me]

I'm starting to hate that stupid "interpretation" word. Some people just take it to a whole new level. When they're starting to lose a debate, the Interpretation Card is drawn and played. OHLOL Our own interpretations will always be valid against established facts. No point in debating then.

I'm talking about you YTards I know you can see this. Repent for your sins or I'll Renzokuken you. By that, I mean, post your nonsense here.

And I swear that's the last time I'll do that

DO IT AGAIN

Extreme naked Twister does not always equal canon.

It's totally in character with Cloud and Tifa to play this game without feelings for each other, AMIRITE? I mean, Cloud and Tifa are pretty much sex-deprived adults. That time under the Highwind was just the only time they could do it, on the grass (and pointy rocks), under the stars, near their deaths... Never mind that they had all those other times in various inns to do it (with Aerith, no less).

It was only for recreation. It explains everything.

SEX DISPROVES CLOTI! Take that, rapids! POINT FOR THE CLERITH SIDE!

Spoiler

For the Blue Side, I firmly believe that Zack and Cloud were having sex under the Highwind through Tifa. Blame FHS for this.

 

[Celes Chere]

I'm starting to hate that stupid "interpretation" word. Some people just take it to a whole new level. When they're starting to lose a debate, the Interpretation Card is drawn and played. OHLOL Our own interpretations will always be valid against established facts. No point in debating then.

And sadly, no matter how many times you drill it into their heads that opinions don't outweigh the facts, they will always say,
"Well, according to my interpretation" or "The creators left it up to interpretation" no matter how many facts showing the obvious you provide. You will never be met with facts in return, just ideas that waste your time.

With the Highwind thing, some people act as if sex is a sinful dirty act that is too 'icky' to have happened. I'm still not one hundred percent sure of it, but seriously grow the fuck up and stop saying it's gross. I've seen the Clerith pron- don't act so innocent.

 

[Vendel]

With the Highwind thing, some people act as if sex is a sinful dirty act that is too 'icky' to have happened.

Funny...that's why I like it.

I'm still not one hundred percent sure of it, but seriously grow the fuck up and stop saying it's gross. I've seen the Clerith pron- don't act so innocent.

But sex with lifestream parasites is not some filthy thing with fluids and such. It is more like....soul fusion ("where do you want this lifestream shot baby!"). Even if you did just call her your mother.