So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Frostwave]

Does anyone have that quote about Zack and Aerith?

It seems pretty weird that they'd be saying they were just really great friends, and put multiple quotes up saying they were "in love".

edit: Is that the quote that talks about their relationship being chaste or some such? Eh, can't remember...

 

[KissTheRain]

They attract to each other by mutual feelings similar to friendship, because they're both juvenile, if you call it love...
~Crisis Core Ultimania

 

[Frostwave]

That's kinda Engrish-y...

And yet.... they DID call it love. More than once. Aerith's love with the SOLDIER who fell from the sky, Aerith sincerely loves Zack, her first love that's always by her side, Aerith gets jealous of Zack being friendly to other girls, etc.. Zack writes home about a girlfriend, and there's no doubt this girl is a special partner...

And I guess now that Zack and Aerith are just friends, her explained-by-Zack feelings for Cloud in VII are ones of eternal BFF.

 

[KissTheRain]

Oh they were defiantly in love I know that, just pointing out places that Cleriths get the idea that they weren't really in love.

If they still are or not, you decide either way works for me.

 

[Zee]

~backtracking this thread~ lol dissidia (moar like disSHITdia amirite)

What exactly is the harm in admitting SE made a small, simple refrence to Aeris through Cloud? Oh, that's right, because THIS. IS. SPARTA and if you admit that they did make a harmless refrence, then holy fuck that's just as bad as admitting you think they loved each other! And oh god, upon that realization, all your Advent Children copies have rewritten themselves to show an ending where Cloud doesn't live with Tifa and raise kids-- no no, this new ending revives Aeris and she and Cloud drive off into the wild pink yonder! Jesus Christ how will you live with yourself when everything you've ever known is a lie

 

[Frostwave]

I missed the Dissidia stuff...

Where is Aerith referenced?

 

[Celes Chere]

They just bounce back and forth between half-baked arguments. Whatever they think debunks Cloti in one scene, no matter how little sense it makes as a whole, they run with it.

Notice that Cloti responses tend to be the same solid argument- Clerith arguments are ever-changing. At least, that's my experience.

If they still are or not

They are. Inseparable relationship, destiny, and irreplaceable existence to one other-- are pretty defining of eternity, imo.

What exactly is the harm in admitting SE made a small, simple refrence to Aeris through Cloud?

Lol, there is no harm, I just really don't see any references to Aerith, except for one which Ryu reminded me of. =P Sorry I don't have the exact quote, Frosti.

 

[Kikyou]

Yeah, it's hilarious that they went from Tifa being a desperate, clingy ho panting after Cloud like a lapdog, to having purely maternal feelings after reading that paragraph in CoT.

And then they say that she pushes Cloud to choose between her and Aerith in AC, even while they say they have a brother/sister, mother/son relationship.

They just bounce back and forth between half-baked arguments. Whatever they think debunks Cloti in one scene, no matter how little sense it makes as a whole, they run with it.

I would like to debunk that. HO SHIATE IT'S A CLERITH THROW THE TOMATOES. /zomg

But anyway, I don't think it is a matter of bouncing back and forth between arguments but a generalization of what all Cleriths think. Tifa loves Cloud, it's as obvious as... I dunno, "the sun is bright". And it is pretty damn bright down here in Arizona. I think every damn person who plays this game can acknowledge that. But what kind of love it is, differs if you ask the person. For me, it is (not past tense, because I do believe she still loves him in AC and DoC) a romantic love. To someone else, its a mother/son, brother/sister love. To someone else, it may not be a serious love. The only opinion ALL Cleriths share, is, at least, that Cloud and Aerith loved each other during FF7. For what reasons, why, what about Tifa, what about Zack depends on the Clerith you ask. Leading to this...

No, I'd rather have an explanation on how Zack and Aerith are a brother sister relationship, and how it's shown that Zack and Cissnei had more interest in one another. Really, if a chunk of Cleriths think that, I can see how CloudxTifa having a bro/sis relationship would spread like wild-fire.

It's dumb, and doesn't make any sense. No offense, but really... >>

I don't really dig the compilations. I never played CC, I never played DoC, I didn't read any novellas except for Case of Tifa and Case of Barret, so my opinion is different. I'm cheap and dirt poor to buy and play games. DDDD: So I don't know what CC Zack and Aerith are like but I have heard things. I'm not sure if they are accurate but w/e.

I don't know many Cleriths who think like that. Actually, this is the first time I've heard that ZxA was a brother/sister relationship. But then again, I don't LTD that often. If I do, I just lurk around, read, and MAYBE respond. My personal opinion, (lol if you care): I always thought they loved each other but it was a first love. And a lot of first loves IRL don't really last long. In this case, it wasn't because of a break up. But I do think she moved on, and kept that love in her memories. Most people do; some don't. As for why people consider them "Just-friends" status, it's just how some relationships end up as (if bf or gf don't kill each other, steal personal belongings, etc.) when things don't work out because people change or they like other people. But as for the sibling deal, I have a brother and I've seen how other siblings act, and it ain't that intimate.

lol, fuck I wrote a lot.

 

[Zee]

I missed the Dissidia stuff...

Where is Aerith referenced?

At the end Cloud is shown in a field of flowers holding a materia that's almost identical to Aeris' Holy one.

Somehow this does not represent her int he slightest though, idk

There's also some quote about a flower but fuck if I know what that's about.

 

[Frostwave]

Spoiler

Oh, yeah. I've heard about the materia one.

Are they really similar, though? Aerith's white materia was tiny, not like that fist-sized one in Dissidia. The color's wrong. The crystal looks green, Aerith's was kind of milky white looking, and would glow a very pale green when Holy was summoned(so is Holy being summoned there or something?).

What does everybody else's crystal look like?

I got nothing against Aerith being referenced, but I don't see much similarity at all between Aerith's materia and the crystal. I don't know about flowers, either.

 

[Celes Chere]

HO SHIATE IT'S A CLERITH THROW THE TOMATOES. /zomg

Ew, gtfo. Jk, welcome. Seriously, it's great to have another Clerith in here willing to say something.

I don't really dig the compilations. I never played CC, I never played DoC, I didn't read any novellas except for Case of Tifa and Case of Barret, so my opinion is different. I'm cheap and dirt poor to buy and play games. DDDD: So I don't know what CC Zack and Aerith are like but I have heard things. I'm not sure if they are accurate but w/e.

Ah, now you've reminded me of something that really irks me. A lot of Cleriths I've seen in the LTD, haven't played games like Crisis Core, Dissidia, or watched Last Order. They haven't read the Ultimanias, or the novellas. And yet they insist on making a point about them. They insist that what they say is right, when they haven't even experienced the games/works of writing. Now, that's what I call a waste of time. There is no point debating with someone that doesn't even know all of the facts, and builds off of hearsay. For instance, I noticed that Susan thinks that she knows for sure that Aerith is referenced and there is no hint of Tifa ANYWHERE and is very quick to call the lot of us dumbasses for it. Fabulous, but she admits she hasn't even played the game.

I also recall a lot of Cleriths saying they didn't play Crisis Core because it has nothing to do with Cloud and Aerith. Now, that's a little bit obsessive, don't you agree?

lol, fuck I wrote a lot.

It was nice. And, I respect your opinion of thinking it's first love. How then do you feel about quotes saying that Zack and Aerith are inseparable, and how do you feel about Aerith wearing pink and a ribbon for Zack? Just curious.

At the end Cloud is shown in a field of flowers holding a materia that's almost identical to Aeris' Holy one.

Now, that is something I believe doesn't represent Aerith. Cloud, Firion, and Terra spoke of a world filled with flowers. They said the flower Cloud liked most would be there also. I believe these flowers (like the crystal) reference the FFVII world and have nothing to do with just ONE character. The Dissidia Ulti didn't even include the flowers as a reference to FFVII at all, so hey, maybe they're just going off of the Dissidia plot which makes perfect sense.

That Materia is Cloud's crystal. If you want it to be a reference to Aerith, by all means. Like I said before, Sephiroth says it's something that Cloud despises anyway. Seriously though, this is just a crystal. Play the game and find out, is my suggestion.

 

[Frostwave]

Spoiler

Cloud hates the crystal? I don't think SE would make something that Cloud hates be a reference to Aerith, then.

Urgh, I want my damn copy of Dissidia to get here already I'm sick of messing around on just the demo. *grumblegrumble*[

 

[Celes Chere]

It's not that Cloud hates it. Sephiroth says that the crystal is also the thing he most despises, and that he will have to continue to fight battles with no end. Cloud says that if that's his destiny, he'll accept it and that he lives in his own reality, not Sephiroth's.
This has absolutely nothing to do with Aerith.

 

[Zee]

I'll need the full quote, but tbh I'd take Sephiroth's analysis on what Cloud love/hates just as seriously as I'd take Caith Sith's fortune telling skills. Not very.

I also recall a lot of Cleriths saying they didn't play Crisis Core because it has nothing to do with Cloud and Aerith. Now, that's a little bit obsessive, don't you agree?

I think it's less to do with Cleris than the actual characters. Most of the shippers favorite characters are Cloud and Aeris respectivley so... it makes sense not to be interested in a game where your favorite characters kinda take a backseat.

What does everybody else's crystal look like?

Here, you can see for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkH37SyjVaI

Specifically, Zidane's looks like a Garnet (for the princess), and Squall is holding the same feather Rinoa does in the opening of VIII. Tidus' has a sphere...and so on. Each person seems to hold something that represents not just their world, but a person in it. So it'd be really random for Cloud to just be holding like, Fire materia in a flower field-- the flower scene Cloud is standing in looks significantly different to the field they were just in, and the lilies are the same that grow in Aeris' church.

 

[Frostwave]

Spoiler

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs38/f/2009/001/7/2/Dissidia_Crystals_by_BalthierBunanza.png

I found a pic of 'em all. Zidane's is a garnet?

So, who does everyone's crystal represent, going from I on down?

 

[Tennyo]

I see unmarked Dissidia spoilers in this thread. Yay way to go, people.

 

[Frostwave]

oh noez! Sorry Tenny.

Mine are marked now!

 

[Celes Chere]

it makes sense not to be interested in a game where your favorite characters kinda take a backseat.

I definitely disagree that Aerith takes a backseat in Crisis Core. Besides, that doesn't make much sense anyway, if you actually like to play video games and are a fan of a certain series. Wouldn't you at least give it a chance, especially since Aerith and Cloud appear? I'd have to disagree that Cloud takes a backseat as well. They aren't the main playable characters, but they are in it well enough. They have their own moments, especially Cloud towards the end. That's a very defining part of his character. I'd actually say that Tifa is the one who takes the backseat role.

Specifically, Zidane's looks like a Garnet (for the princess)

Yikes, that's not what Zidane's crystal is at all. Have you ever played FFIX? (not trying to sound bitchy, really just wondering. XD) The crystal looks just like the one in FFIX, it has nothing to do with Garnet.

and Squall is holding the same feather Rinoa does in the opening of VIII.

The Dissidia Ultimania actually said that was a reference to Rinoa though.

Tidus' has a sphere...and so on. Each person seems to hold something that represents not just their world, but a person in it.

Tidus is holding a sphere, yeah. You know the ones that he had to find in the game... called Jecht spheres? That has nothing to do with Yuna, lol. If the flowers have to represent a person, I'd say they represent both Aerith and Zack. But I really do believe they just represent FFVII as a whole.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

See, I disagree that the crystal is in anyway anything other than a "materia" representation. Materia is a reference to the FFVII world, not a specific character. Although the flowers I can see as being a nice "Aerith" reference, if one chooses to view it as such. Romantic? Not so much, but definitely nice, and definitely not outside the scope of logical insertions. IMO.

 

[Isabella]

I think it's less to do with Cleris than the actual characters. Most of the shippers favorite characters are Cloud and Aeris respectivley so... it makes sense not to be interested in a game where your favorite characters kinda take a backseat.

I'd say it's more about the lack of C/A interaction, and even worse, it shows Aerith in love with another man. Otherwise, KH, Tactics, Itadaki Street wouldn't be so embraced. They aren't exactly the stars of those games.

 

[Makoeyes987]

At the end Cloud is shown in a field of flowers holding a materia that's almost identical to Aeris' Holy one.

Somehow this does not represent her int he slightest though, idk

There's also some quote about a flower but fuck if I know what that's about.

Like I said earlier, I'm not gonna try to say or doubt that it was a reference to Aerith.

Okay. So what? What does that prove or do for proving Clerith canon? Explain please.

This LTD is truly like the war between the gods. The forces of Cosmos Cloti have battled the forces of Chaos Clerith for eons, with each conflict repeating in a vicious cycle that always resets, no matter what gain each side my have. You can kill the forces of ChaosClerith but discord brings them back, repeating the same attacks again and again. It's a never ending cycle of hatred and conflict. Deep despair reigns down on all.

 

[Zee]

I see unmarked Dissidia spoilers in this thread. Yay way to go, people.

pfft, it's a shiny fighting game, it's like spoiling the ending to Soul Calibur. But lol you might not want to read these posts, then.

I found a pic of 'em all. Zidane's is a garnet?

So, what does everyone's crystal represent, going from I on down?

Lawl, it looked redder when it was glowing.

tbh I've only played 7, 8, 9, and some of 10, so I couldn't tell you what all of them meant. But it seems those that didn't have literal crystals in their respective games just had things that took the shape of something familiar. Squall's feather is pretty obvious. Rinoa. Tidus seems to have Jecht's sphere. And Cloud is holding onto a materia. here is a pic of the Holy materia. It looks even more alike in that picture with the other crystals.

Okay. So what? What does that prove or do for proving Clerith canon? Explain please.

When the hell did I say it made anything canon? Where did anyone? All anyone ever said what that it was a reference to her and all hell broke loose.

This LTD is truly like the war between the gods. The forces of Cosmos Cloti have battled the forces of Chaos Clerith for eons, with each conflict repeating in a vicious cycle that always resets, no matter what gain each side my have. You can kill the forces of ChaosClerith but discord brings them back, repeating the same attacks again and again. It's a never ending cycle of hatred and conflict. Deep despair reigns down on all.

Less like a war between the gods.

More like two monkeys flinging shit at each other.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Specifically, Zidane's looks like a Garnet (for the princess), and Squall is holding the same feather Rinoa does in the opening of VIII. Tidus' has a sphere...and so on. Each person seems to hold something that represents not just their world, but a person in it. So it'd be really random for Cloud to just be holding like, Fire materia in a flower field-- the flower scene Cloud is standing in looks significantly different to the field they were just in, and the lilies are the same that grow in Aeris' church.

Zidane's crystal is the Crystal of existence from the Crystal World. It has nothing to do with Garnet. It's the shape of the crystal that spawned every single memory.

Cecil's crystal is just one of the crystals you see from the game. Firion's crystal is the Crystal Rod that's used to obtain the ultimate magic "Ultima" which was used to fight Palamecia's forces. FFIII's is the Wind Crystal. So no. The crystals do not all represent people the characters know.

The crystal Cloud's holding is a materia. Again, if it were Holy, it'd be a lot smaller.

 

[Celes Chere]

Lawl, it looked redder when it was glowing.

Lol... it's more like an amber or auburn color. Which yeah, is kind of redish in the light.

tbh I've only played 7, 8, 9, and some of 10, so I couldn't tell you what all of them meant. But it seems those that didn't have literal crystals in their respective games just had things that took the shape of something familiar. Squall's feather is pretty obvious. Rinoa. Tidus seems to have Jecht's sphere. And Cloud is holding onto a materia. here is a pic of the Holy materia. It looks even more alike in that picture with the other crystals.

Well, at least I can see more where you're coming from. However, my opinion is still the same. All of the characters from all of the FFs in the game, don't all have their crystals representing one person in particular.

 

[I Am Not Me]

Although the flowers I can see as being a nice "Aerith" reference, if one chooses to view it as such. Romantic?

Yes.

Spoiler

FirionxAerith, anyone? Firion wants to fill the world with flowers, you know. This ttly means he wants to fill the world with Aerith!

...now I'm off to sleep. Look at me being awake at 3:40am!