So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Tennyo]

Must have still been cached, then. I commented as soon as I clicked the link and saw it, which would have been after you changed it if my logic serves me.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

No, that link was a previous revision, it had already been removed by that point

 

[Ryushikaze]

You mention Wakka and Lulu for marriage yet fail to mention that they have a kid, too? D:

I did mention it, actually, before it was again paired down. I also mentioned Yang's daughter, C and T raising kids, and Terra raising orphans.

Must have still been cached, then. I commented as soon as I clicked the link and saw it, which would have been after you changed it if my logic serves me.

No, the link he gave the thread is a record of the previous edit.

 

[Tennyo]

Oh I see.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Gah, not LT but another one.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/index.php?title=Aerith_Gainsborough&diff=639032&oldid=639009

Just...really. We get some damn idiots at the Wiki. At least once a day, I promise you we get someone editing a FF7 character page to change their weight and/or height. Usually Cloud, but other people often pop up too. It's to the point I've lost track of it and don't care anymore.

There's also a bit spat between editors over if Terra beat Cloud in her storyline or not. I can't find the links, but a couple weeks ago it was worded in such a way to say "Cloud let her win because he wasn't trying, he was fighting to help her so it doesn't count it was a draw, and blah blah"....I put an end to that a week or so ago.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Victory depends on the goal. Even if Cloud got the snot beaten out of him, his goal was met.

Addendum: PRESUMED deceased? Um... No.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Victory depends on the goal. Even if Cloud got the snot beaten out of him, his goal was met.

I go by the fight itself. Terra's storyline, Terra won the battle. Like Squall's story, he fights WoL, and wins. Regardless of the cinematics after the fight, if you win the fight, you won the fight. It's like the Kuja fights in FF9, Kuja wins due to the plot only, but technically he lost the actual fights.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Victory depends on the goal. Even if Cloud got the snot beaten out of him, his goal was met.

Addendum: PRESUMED deceased? Um... No.

Well, you know. Very few people die from being stabbed by Sephiroth, I mean, Tifa and Zack are still alive and they got stabbed. Clearly, they just assumed Square Enix was just playing the drama up for all the tears they could get. ()

 

[Ryushikaze]

I go by the fight itself. Terra's storyline, Terra won the battle. Like Squall's story, he fights WoL, and wins. Regardless of the cinematics after the fight, if you win the fight, you won the fight. It's like the Kuja fights in FF9, Kuja wins due to the plot only, but technically he lost the actual fights.

Kuja 'lost' the mechanic battle, but won the story battle, killing, or nearly so, the whole party. The battle != the story.

 

[Roger]

Well, you know. Very few people die from being stabbed by Sephiroth, I mean, Tifa and Zack are still alive and they got stabbed. Clearly, they just assumed Square Enix was just playing the drama up for all the tears they could get. ()

Well let's be fair, Aeris, President Shinra, Tifa's dad, several Nibelheim townpeople vs Cloud, Zack, Tseng and Tifa. Sephiroth has fifthy-fifthy record.

 

[Splintered]

Ahahah, "presumed deceased." Cloud drowns live women in FFVII

Kuja 'lost' the mechanic battle, but won the story battle, killing, or nearly so, the whole party. The battle != the story.

It doesn't have to be. If you are just talking about beating him in a fight, she beat him in a fight. It doesn't necessarily mean they are stronger. Cloud killed or "beat" Sephiroth in the reactor. That didn't mean he was a better fighter at that time, it was a mixture of Sephiroth being distracted by his increasing sanity and Cloud's fury and willpower+ convenient walkway to fall off of.

A wins a win, even if the battle doesn't equal the war.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Well let's be fair, Aeris, President Shinra, Tifa's dad, several Nibelheim townpeople vs Cloud, Zack, Tseng and Tifa. Sephiroth has fifthy-fifthy record.

NPCs die by the dozen in any good FF game, they don't count.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Ahahah, "presumed deceased." Cloud drowns live women in FFVII

It doesn't have to be. If you are just talking about beating him in a fight, she beat him in a fight. It doesn't necessarily mean they are stronger. Cloud killed or "beat" Sephiroth in the reactor. That didn't mean he was a better fighter at that time, it was a mixture of Sephiroth being distracted by his increasing sanity and Cloud's fury and willpower+ convenient walkway to fall off of.

A wins a win, even if the battle doesn't equal the war.

True, but my point is that combat mechanics and results don't equal the story.
Steiner is supposed to be Beatrixes Equal in terms of swordplay, but as per the battle mechanics, she is leagues ahead of him for quite a good deal of the game.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I go by the fight itself. Terra's storyline, Terra won the battle. Like Squall's story, he fights WoL, and wins. Regardless of the cinematics after the fight, if you win the fight, you won the fight. It's like the Kuja fights in FF9, Kuja wins due to the plot only, but technically he lost the actual fights.

That really doesn't make any sense, unless you believe Zidane beat the tar out of Garland, although afterwards Garland looks unhurt and Zidane's the one breathing hard, asking him what he's made out of.

And of course there's Jecht vs. Firion, and Kefka vs. Zidane. Just because you win the fight in the gameplay doesn't mean in the storyline's script that's what happened.

It doesn't have to be. If you are just talking about beating him in a fight, she beat him in a fight. It doesn't necessarily mean they are stronger. Cloud killed or "beat" Sephiroth in the reactor. That didn't mean he was a better fighter at that time, it was a mixture of Sephiroth being distracted by his increasing sanity and Cloud's fury and willpower+ convenient walkway to fall off of.

A wins a win, even if the battle doesn't equal the war.

It's not about a battle equaling a war, its confusing gameplay mechanics with actual plot outcome. You may "beat" Kuja in FFIX but he still defeats you in the storyline, no matter how strong you are, because that's what the plot states.

 

[Splintered]

True, but my point is that combat mechanics and results don't equal the story.
Steiner is supposed to be Beatrixes Equal in terms of swordplay, but as per the battle mechanics, she is leagues ahead of him for quite a good deal of the game.

Really? I haven't played XI in forever (here's to hoping it comes on psn with the other classics) but I remember Beatrix rocking my team's ass, canonicly, more than once. I thought that it was suppose to show that she was very much above Steiner. Then again, it's been way too long and I could be wrong.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The game, and Ultimania state they're peers, and previously, Steiner was able to beat Beatrix in a duel, and that's why Beatrix feels such a strong rivalry towards him.

 

[Splintered]

The game, and Ultimania state they're peers, and previously, Steiner was able to beat Beatrix in a duel, and that's why Beatrix feels such a strong rivalry towards him.

I stand corrected. Curse you Ultimania's, and your confusing plot correcting ways.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

That really doesn't make any sense, unless you believe Zidane beat the tar out of Garland, although afterwards Garland looks unhurt and Zidane's the one breathing hard, asking him what he's made out of.

And of course there's Jecht vs. Firion, and Kefka vs. Zidane. Just because you win the fight in the gameplay doesn't mean in the storyline's script that's what happened.

If there were the case, then the plot would change it. Winning the fight in terms of plot =/= winning it in terms of gameplay. Kuja won due to the plotline, but he still lost the fight in terms of gameplay.

But in Dissidia, that never happens. Sure there's fights where the cinematic after shows the player character got the worst of it, but none that challenge the player's victory in terms of story. They could have easily made a battle where you're meant to lose, like the Beatrix and Kuja fights, you fight until say, you get the enemy to 1 HP, at which point they EX Burst and kill you. If they wanted to have a fight the player loses in terms of plot, they could have done that. But they didn't.

At no point in Dissidia does the game say "you technically didn't win that". There's instances where it shows it was a close victory in terms of story, and sometimes it shows that even if you won the enemy isn't killed, but that's it.

 

[Ryushikaze]

If there were the case, then the plot would change it. Winning the fight in terms of plot =/= winning it in terms of gameplay. Kuja won due to the plotline, but he still lost the fight in terms of gameplay.

But in Dissidia, that never happens. Sure there's fights where the cinematic after shows the player character got the worst of it, but none that challenge the player's victory in terms of story. They could have easily made a battle where you're meant to lose, like the Beatrix and Kuja fights, you fight until say, you get the enemy to 1 HP, at which point they EX Burst and kill you. If they wanted to have a fight the player loses in terms of plot, they could have done that. But they didn't.

At no point in Dissidia does the game say "you technically didn't win that". There's instances where it shows it was a close victory in terms of story, and sometimes it shows that even if you won the enemy isn't killed, but that's it.

Technically, it does. After WoL 'beats' Sephiroth, Seph compliments WoL's skills, but then says Cloud is the only person who can beat him, implying that even though there was a 'combat win' there was a 'plot stalemate'

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Technically, it does. After WoL 'beats' Sephiroth, Seph compliments WoL's skills, but then says Cloud is the only person who can beat him, implying that even though there was a 'combat win' there was a 'plot stalemate'

In terms of plot it was a draw, in terms of fighting it was a win. But when does Dissidia actively show the opponent beating you in a cut-scene after a battle? I can think of only one instance, Tidus vs Emperor. All the other times it's as you said, a draw.

 

[Tennyo]

Crisis Core: You win the fight against Sephiroth only to have your ass handed to you after the fact.

 

[Dashell]

Here's something LTD related. On this "Family" thing and how some people say Barret is the family and this and that are the family. Well in the Ultimania we know it refers to Marlene, Cloud and Tifa as a family of three. Then later Denzel joins Cloud's family... some people ignore this and might try to say that we don't know who Cloud considers his family. Others say it's Barret's family or just a family... but it really is Cloud's family. He says so himself in ACC....

"Tifa I'm not fit to help anyone, not my family, not my friends... nobody..."
I hadn't even thought about that until now. Cloud himself says it's his family and separates them from 'his friends' in the same breath. There really should be no disputing over this anymore. ... but I know there will be... just something I read off another forum I thought up all by myself

So even if at times Tifa thought they might not be a family or said they weren't a REAL family, Cloud thinks they are.

... or will I just be countered with another Tifa is the mother thing ...?

 

[Isabella]

Tifa is Cloud's mom. Duh.

 

[Dashell]

Curses, foiled again

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Tifa and Aerith are both referred to as motherly in some way. So obviously, they're lesbians together because it's disgusting for any sig other to have motherly feelings for their boyfriend/girlfriend and they never call each other mom. So clearly, they're having some spirit lovings.