So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[TheMadHatter]

I don't see any more pages...

I'll read em tomorrow. I have to head to bed, apartment's owner hates it when I stay up late.

Later!

 

[Ryushikaze]

Just looked at the link and than the clerith's link....this was short. Hm, thought it was a monster sized essay. LoL

Where he said the player could pick or whatever, is that true? I've played the game and I just skipped pass the mushy-lovey parts to play the actual game. I remember giving the flower to Marlene -is that how you spell it?- and than saving Tifa at the fat guys house and than the circus part with Aerith. But I didn't really think they -the players- had the chance to pick the side. Also, I never knew the Playstation had that kind of power, you know, pick a part and it affects the story.

What he means is that you can pick, early on, whether Cloud has an interest in the new girl, or if he reaffirms his feelings for Tifa. Not that you have a choice in the end.

I think SE will solve everyone's problem by either giving Cloud someone new or old. But canon is such a big word for a couple such as clerith and cloti. I mean, the makers never showed anything relevant enough to any of the couples. Its as SoS said, "preferred relationship" and "player’s own choices influence who Cloud’s affection".

I guess what I'm saying is, as fans of FFVII, maybe we should drop the debating and focus on our preferred couple until SE states which is canon.

What I'm saying is how does 'Cloud belongs with Tifa' 'I guess the woman wears the pants' in relation to C/T, and the two of them living together and raising kids NOT a way that they say C/T is canon? How is that NOT giving Cloud someone?

I hope I didn't make enemies saying that...I'll edit this if I find errors...but I'll be tired, so it will probably remain the same LOL

Enemies, no, discussion, yes.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Also..

This is epic. Looks like a lying confused guy

You don't know the Nostalgia Critic? For shame!

 

[Dashell]

Okay I just did this tonight:
http://www.killthemongoose.com/interview.php

It took way longer than I meant for it to but w/e
... uhm is it any good? Did I cover everything? There's other quotes I want to put in there obviously but this is the one that was on my mind and bugging me for a while.

EDIT:
you know I'm sorry that conclusion sucks... I'll write a better one later... when my brain isn't so fried.

 

[Isabella]

About that quote, what it comes down to for me is this: If Nojima is operating on the assumption that Cloud and Tifa are friends who live together, there is absolutely no reason for the "love, marriage and family" thought to pop into his head. It would be as random and out of place as me saying, "you know, Quex and Ryu have communication problems. I don't really intend to go about my views on love or marriage or family." Your response would rightfully be, "WTF? What do those things have to do with Quex and Ryu?" That those things were top of mind for him when talking about Cloud and Tifa is very telling.

 

[Dashell]

About that quote, what it comes down to for me is this: If Nojima is operating on the assumption that Cloud and Tifa are friends who live together, there is absolutely no reason for the "love, marriage and family" thought to pop into his head. It would be as random and out of place as me saying, "you know, Quex and Ryu have communication problems. I don't really intend to go about my views on love or marriage or family." Your response would rightfully be, "WTF? What do those things have to do with Quex and Ryu?" That those things were top of mind for him when talking about Cloud and Tifa is very telling.

Shit ... why didn't I just say that?
Can I use that in my conclusion? It's better than what I have. I felt I might have beat around the bush too much but I'm trying to make a point.

EDIT:
is it too... much what I wrote? Should I shorten it? I'm trying to attack every single point of view I heard but maybe it's too much.

"you know, Quex and Ryu have communication problems. I don't really intend to go about my views on love or marriage or family." Your response would rightfully be, "WTF? What do those things have to do with Quex and Ryu?"

Me and Ryu have communication problems... oh this makes me sad

 

[Isabella]

You can use it if you like. But beyond that, I don't really want to tell you what to say on your page. It should be a reflection of how you feel on the matter. A tip, though: brief and to the point tends to have more impact.

Me and Ryu have communication problems... oh this makes me sad

I wanted to use Jem and Null, since they're archenemies and all, but sadly neither is around much anymore.

 

[Dashell]

Well I mean I did KINDA say that

"First off there's the premise that things won't go well between Cloud and Tifa as friends. Clearly this means that a romantic relationship or a family between them is a bad idea. Never mind that they all ready have a family that they consider their own and they're still together years later raising two children. Oh BTW, Aerith might have been a better lover for Cloud (laugh)"

But maybe I should shorten it a bit. Also.. YAY me and Ryu are the new Jem and Null (whoever they were)

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

Wow Quexinos, you really tried... hats off...

Though I can see why many Cleriths wouldn't want to put up an essay on TLS. That would give people the opportunity to point out all the logical failings and whatnot, leaving them without a leg to stand on - in short, it would be suicide.

They've worked hard and put up a pink fortress to hide behind, and they don't accept avatars, signatures, handles or heretics who Do Not Worship at the Altar of Aerith; one can hardly expect them to step outside of their Pink Vault and have their rosy-colored little world ripped apart for them.

 

[Dashell]

Wow Quexinos, you really tried... hats off...

Okay wait what is that? "I give you an A for effort but it sucks."? XD

Though I can see why many Cleriths wouldn't want to put up an essay on TLS. That would give people the opportunity to point out all the logical failings and whatnot, leaving them without a leg to stand on - in short, it would be suicide

Still, it would have been the more mature thing to do.

 

[aniron]

Though I can see why many Cleriths wouldn't want to put up an essay on TLS. That would give people the opportunity to point out all the logical failings and whatnot, leaving them without a leg to stand on - in short, it would be suicide.

And why would they indeed? Their DF essays are full of bias.
They should write an essay that would actually make sense to post it in here.

 

[Vendel]

Now now people. Let's not be so hasty shall we. I am sure they are making many well thought out and reasoned arguments.

In fact I will go and look now.
.
.
.

W..well I just got done and I...uh.....

Spoiler

 

[Max Payne]

Even though you got it spoilered, you might want to remove that gif, seeing as how last time someone posted it someone whined about it and a guy got warned for it.

Just sayin

 

[Dashell]

Even though you got it spoilered, you might want to remove that gif, seeing as how last time someone posted it someone whined about it and a guy got warned for it.

.... why?

 

[Max Payne]

it was too gross or some bullshit, and it's not like the spoiler tag is going to keep chumps from lookin

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

Okay wait what is that? "I give you an A for effort but it sucks."? XD

You know what I mean!

I'm not saying your effort sucked. But I honestly thought from the start that they were just she-dogging about not getting their essay on TLS because they assumed they wouldn't be allowed to do so. They thought they were safe. You know how one guy tells his friends to hold him back, then pretends to struggle against them in a fight?

Then once they got the go ahead... ... Actually I almost feel a little sorry for them now.

And is Darth Malak dead? His head just exploded. Groovy.

 

[Dashell]

But I honestly thought from the start that they were just she-dogging about not getting their essay on TLS because they assumed they wouldn't be allowed to do so. They thought they were safe. You know how one guy tells his friends to hold him back, then pretends to struggle against them in a fight?

I guess I felt they honestly thought their essay wouldn't get put up. I can't believe when I gave them the go ahead that they still wouldn't do it. I just don't get their resolve... at all.

I'm almost tempted to write a Clerith essay myself just so it gets put up... I just honestly don't know if I could write such a thing though. So... anyone have any good Clerith points?... anyone?

 

[Roger]

I guess I felt they honestly thought their essay wouldn't get put up. I can't believe when I gave them the go ahead that they still wouldn't do it. I just don't get their resolve... at all.

I'm almost tempted to write a Clerith essay myself just so it gets put up... I just honestly don't know if I could write such a thing though. So... anyone have any good Clerith points?... anyone?

Beyond what you haven´t heard a million times already? Well, here's one I thought out of nowhere. In AC Cloud called Aerith mother, and she called him to big to adopt. Now obviously this was in contrast to Kadaj, barely a week old and his brothers. But after Crisis Core, it's a reference to Zack too. He called Aerith mother and is in the Lifestream with her now. That sheds a different light on ZackxAerith, who already weren't equals, Aerith being the Cetra that pretty controls the Lifestream, Zack being not much more then an agent of the Lifestream now.
Cloud is in a similiar position. By far and wide the only person that the Planet can depend on. As such Cloud and Aerith are two sides of coin and are isolated from the rest in the conflict against Sephiroth. And only have each other to relate too.

NOT SUPPORTING THIS, just thought I'd mention it.

 

[Makoeyes987]

That sounds crazy enough for the rabid pinkers to use. Good job giving them new ammunition

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Are his feelings of friendship for the rest of Avalanche invalidated then? After all, he got to know them while he was in his mixed-up state.

Why couldn't he have been falling for Aerith but still end up with Tifa?
----
In love with Aerith, no, but I think the game gives you the freedom for him to be attracted to her or even starting to fall for her.

I really don't think the Cloti side of this argument does itself any favors by denying any possibility of a mutual attraction between them. It doesn't change how the LT ends.

It’s not that he was in his mixed-up state and then everything is wiped clean. As I understand it, the game deliberately creates a bond between Aeris and Cloud that always cloud be interpreted as romantic (during Disk1), but is still never outright so. However, being in love with Aeris is at odds with the rest of the storyline, and as such when Disk 1 ends the game sweeps away any choice you had in interpreting their interactions as romantic on the grounds that PLAYER CONTROL/PREFERENCE was Cloud acting under the influence, so to speak.

That’s why it doesn’t matter who he goes on a date with in the end.

The game allows for the possibility, up to a certain point. Then it shows you why you were wrong. That’s the twist. It’s not Cloud falling for Aeris and then still ending up with Tifa, because the game never really shows romantic interest in her beyond player control.

It’s not as simple as Disk 1 he was falling for Aeris, Disk 2 ended up with Tifa. No, it’s a continuous story and the illusion in Disk 1 is not any more valid than saying Cloud was a Soldier in Disk 1, but not in 2. No, he never was. He was messed up, had forgotten shit, and whatever interaction the player forced (that may later seem at odds with actual story), the storyline dismisses as Cloud under the influence.

I give up, I can’t express myself today. I’m going in circles. LOLz
Need sleep

 

[Roger]

Like I said before it's all Zacks fault. Recap, Cloud leaves town to become a famous SOLDIEr 1st Class just like his hero Sephiroth to impress Tifa, Cloud apparantly succeeds, he's a SOLDIER 1st class, he's best buds with Sephiroth no less and after two years he's coming back to his village. Getting head with Tifa is a sure thing.

But then Cloud gets to Nibelheim and Cloud's memory doesn't remember looking for Tifa in particular and when they do meet they don't really talk. And Tifa current day (during the two months between Tifa finding him and the start of the game that is) isn't particularly willing to talk about it with him. Huh, guess I sorta got over her. That's more or less what Cloud must have as an idea of their feelings toward each other at the start of the game. In Disc 2 those feelings get cleared up and Cloud pretty much confesses to Tifa.

There's a real reason for getting free reign in Disc 1 and there's a real reason for losing control at the start of Disc 2. Cloud's feelings to Tifa are very important to the plot.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Like I said before it's all Zacks fault. Recap, Cloud leaves town to become a famous SOLDIEr 1st Class just like his hero Sephiroth to impress Tifa, Cloud apparantly succeeds, he's a SOLDIER 1st class, he's best buds with Sephiroth no less and after two years he's coming back to his village. Getting head with Tifa is a sure thing.

....Either I'm missing you making a joke or...?

Are you seriously saying Cloud became a SOLDIER? Because he didn't. He never did. And nothing is Zack's fault at all. Cloud wasn't best buds with Sephiroth either.

But something tells me you're joking.

But then Cloud gets to Nibelheim and Cloud's memory doesn't remember looking for Tifa in particular and when they do meet they don't really talk. And Tifa current day (during the two months between Tifa finding him and the start of the game that is) isn't particularly willing to talk about it with him. Huh, guess I sorta got over her. That's more or less what Cloud must have as an idea of their feelings toward each other at the start of the game. In Disc 2 those feelings get cleared up and Cloud pretty much confesses to Tifa.

What? I don't get what you're saying at all.

There's a real reason for getting free reign in Disc 1 and there's a real reason for losing control at the start of Disc 2. Cloud's feelings to Tifa are very important to the plot.

Well yes, that's very true.

 

[Roger]

....Either I'm missing you making a joke or...?

Are you seriously saying Cloud became a SOLDIER? Because he didn't. He never did. And nothing is Zack's fault at all. Cloud wasn't best buds with Sephiroth either.

But something tells me you're joking.

What? I don't get what you're saying at all.

No duh, I'm saying that's how he remembered it. Him thinking he's Zack is the inconsistency. He remembered somehow making SOLDIER, he mentioned how he and Sephiroth were warbuddies.

None of that actually happened for him but how that is relevant for his feelings in Disc 1 is beyond me. He has recollections of his dreams coming true... But since it was Zack actually doing this stuff it wouldn't really impress Tifa now would it. So in Cloud's memory he remembers it all going exactly as he hoped it would and more... until he got to Nibelheim where he and Tifa were friendly to each other and that's about as far as it goes. Thus his feelings toward Tifa in Disc 1 are sketchy. We're lucky Zack never bothered to mention having girlfriend to Cloud once or...

 

[Vendel]

So apparently EVERYONE was wrong about this whole 'wearing the pants' thing.
Now we know Barret and Cid were talking about Cloud and Tifa and being together (LOCATION ONLY) and Cid said it's da womens who wear the pants.

Well now we know why.

Spoiler

Most people who are reading this are also familiar with jokes. Between the two of them (Cloud and Tifa), who do you think is in charge of Seventh Heaven? Who do you think is the more emotionally strong? Who do you think makes all the decisions? Tifa, of course. Everyone knows that she is the one in charge there. She is even shown scolding Cloud like his mother in CoT. Cloud has to ask permission for everything like a little kid. So, hell, yes, she's the one wearing the pants around there! Cloud's a friggin' head case, so there's no way he'd be the decision-maker around there.

So to recap. Cid and Barret were joking. Because Tifa is Cloud's mother. Which is why Barret immediately brings up Shera who has geostigma RIGHT AFTER THIS.
"HAHA Tifa is Cloud's mom"
"So how is you dying girlfriend?"

Well after avoiding the subject for some time I am glad they finally put that to rest.

 

[Raquelborn]

Most people who are reading this are also familiar with jokes. Between the two of them (Cloud and Tifa), who do you think is in charge of Seventh Heaven? Who do you think is the more emotionally strong? Who do you think makes all the decisions? Tifa, of course. Everyone knows that she is the one in charge there. She is even shown scolding Cloud like his mother in CoT. Cloud has to ask permission for everything like a little kid. So, hell, yes, she's the one wearing the pants around there! Cloud's a friggin' head case, so there's no way he'd be the decision-maker around there.

I don't see how this negates how the 'wears the pants' line is probably refering to a romantic relationship. Even if Cid is joking he's still playing on how Cloud and Tifa are in a relationship or at least, in order for this to be a joke Barrett would actually get, it is obvious to both Barrett and Cid that they are at least very much like a couple.