So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[The Twilight Mexican]

Because fandoms will ship ANYTHING. Hell I bet someone out there is shipping Diamond WEAPON with the Mako Cannon.

That one was confirmed in an interview with Nojima, actually. The Sister Ray's been giving Diamond WEAPON its money shot since '97.

But isn't Marlene like his sister? That seems like incest to me.

Ah, so you do see the appeal.


So, I expect your essays on why DxM or DxMG is the OTP a.s.a.p.

¡Andale!

 

[Mantichorus]

But isn't Marlene like his sister? That seems like incest to me.

Nah, cousins at most. Marlene's staying with Auntie Tifa and Uncle Cloud while Papa's away working. She still refers to Barret as Papa (in ACC, at least).

 

[Vendel]

Nah, cousins at most. Marlene's staying with Auntie Tifa and Uncle Cloud while Papa's away working. She still refers to Barret as Papa (in ACC, at least).

I think she considers Tifa, Cloud and Denzel as a bit closer than Aunt, Uncle and Cousin.

And I don't know why people are hung up on this "Barret is her father". Somehow that keeps Cloud from holding a father role in her life?

And it's less "while papa is away working" and more "permanent adoption". Certainly since Denzel came around.

 

[Ryushikaze]

You mean they changed it from 8 to 9 recently?

I think he meant that Denzel's birthday may have been right before AC/C.

That is what I meant, yes.

I think she considers Tifa, Cloud and Denzel as a bit closer than Aunt, Uncle and Cousin.

Big Sis, Bro in Law, and Cousnephuncremoved.
Really though, it's not a cut and dry 'mom and dad and brother' but Father figure, Mother figure, and fellow child thingy.

And I don't know why people are hung up on this "Barret is her father". Somehow that keeps Cloud from holding a father role in her life?

Not at all. It just means Cloud's not her poppa to her. But it doesn't make Barret part of 'the family' either. You can't see this in utter black and white terms.

And it's less "while papa is away working" and more "permanent adoption". Certainly since Denzel came around.

Semi-permanent, at least, yes.

 

[Dashell]

I like how they always point out that Cloud isn't at 7th heaven a lot so I guess he can't be the father figure/Tifa's lover/whatever.. .but apparently Barret can be...

Or he's never shown with Tifa so he can't be her lover... but he can be Aerith's lover XD

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

You damn Saphocannon shippers and your lies! Clearly the Cannon loves Diamond because it's beam went right through Diamond's heart! Also they raised a family together at some point

Isn't it common knowledge that raising a family together means that the parent figures are just friends, and absolutely nothing more? We all know Diamond WEAPON sneaks off to have spirit sex with its true love

Spoiler

who just happens to be dead

, Sapphire WEAPON.

I like how they always point out that Cloud isn't at 7th heaven a lot so I guess he can't be the father figure/Tifa's lover/whatever.. .but apparently Barret can be...

Or he's never shown with Tifa so he can't be her lover... but he can be Aerith's lover XD

First off, I agree with the points you raise regarding the blatant logic gaps in the 'Cloud's not a daddy!' argument. I don't see how Cloud leaving for a couple weeks is proof he loves no one but Aerith, but when Barret left to settle his past for much longer and he's still a crucial part of Marlene's life. Both Barret and Cloud are important to Marlene.

Also, you gave me the funny image of Marlene introducing herself to Denzel by exclaiming, "I have two dads!" ...at which point Denzel assumes that she has gay parents.

 

[Mantichorus]

And I don't know why people are hung up on this "Barret is her father". Somehow that keeps Cloud from holding a father role in her life?

Cloud can be a father figure, certainly. But a lot of people seem to think he and Tifa are her 'parents' now, while Marlene still refers to Barret as "Papa". Also, she calls Cloud, "Cloud" and Tifa, "Tifa".

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Cloud can be a father figure, certainly. But a lot of people seem to think he and Tifa are her 'parents' now, while Marlene still refers to Barret as "Papa". Also, she calls Cloud, "Cloud" and Tifa, "Tifa".

Yeah, they're more like the nice auntie and uncle who take care of the kid while mommy/daddy has a mental breakdown. Hey, it happened to me!

Though Denzel definitely seems like 'their' kid, since his parents died and Tifa and Cloud are now taking care of him. AND FOR THE RECORD I AM NOT DECREASING HIS PARENT'S IMPORTANCE BY SAYING OH THEY'RE DEAD NOW THEY DON'T MATTER I AM JUST SAYING THAT TIFA AND CLOUD ARE NOW PROBABLY VERY IMPORTANT TO HIM AND COULD DEFINITELY BE SEEN AS PARENTAL FIGURES.

 

[Mantichorus]

Yeah, they're more like the nice auntie and uncle who take care of the kid while mommy/daddy has a mental breakdown. Hey, it happened to me!

Though Denzel definitely seems like 'their' kid, since his parents died and Tifa and Cloud are now taking care of him. AND FOR THE RECORD I AM NOT DECREASING HIS PARENT'S IMPORTANCE BY SAYING OH THEY'RE DEAD NOW THEY DON'T MATTER I AM JUST SAYING THAT TIFA AND CLOUD ARE NOW PROBABLY VERY IMPORTANT TO HIM AND COULD DEFINITELY BE SEEN AS PARENTAL FIGURES.

Well, exactly. Barret tells him to "look after Mom", referring to Tifa.

Hell, maybe Tifa and Cloud are whatever the Planet's alternative to Godparents to Marlene.

 

[Tennyo]

Yeah, they're more like the nice auntie and uncle who take care of the kid while mommy/daddy has a mental breakdown. Hey, it happened to me!

Though Denzel definitely seems like 'their' kid, since his parents died and Tifa and Cloud are now taking care of him. AND FOR THE RECORD I AM NOT DECREASING HIS PARENT'S IMPORTANCE BY SAYING OH THEY'RE DEAD NOW THEY DON'T MATTER I AM JUST SAYING THAT TIFA AND CLOUD ARE NOW PROBABLY VERY IMPORTANT TO HIM AND COULD DEFINITELY BE SEEN AS PARENTAL FIGURES.

Also Denzel's dad was blond and his mom was brunette, kinda like Cloud and Tifa.

 

[Raquelborn]

But a lot of people seem to think he and Tifa are her 'parents' now, while Marlene still refers to Barret as "Papa". Also, she calls Cloud, "Cloud" and Tifa, "Tifa".

I call my grandma "Pat". Does that stop her being my grandma or grandmother figure?

I like how they always point out that Cloud isn't at 7th heaven a lot so I guess he can't be the father figure/Tifa's lover/whatever.. .but apparently Barret can be...

Barrett did shoot his gun at Bahamut to protect her. Considering this, it's a perfectly reasonable suggestion that they're in love with each other.

Both Barret and Cloud are important to Marlene.

I imagine that Marlene sees Cloud as a kind of uncle, while Barrett is still her proper father. Tifa's just the closest thing she has to a mother.

Though Denzel definitely seems like 'their' kid, since his parents died and Tifa and Cloud are now taking care of him...TIFA AND CLOUD ARE NOW PROBABLY VERY IMPORTANT TO HIM AND COULD DEFINITELY BE SEEN AS PARENTAL FIGURES.

Especially since in Case of Tifa and ACC there is lots that hints at a very father-son relationship between Denzel and Cloud.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yeah, they're more like the nice auntie and uncle who take care of the kid while mommy/daddy has a mental breakdown. Hey, it happened to me!

Though Denzel definitely seems like 'their' kid, since his parents died and Tifa and Cloud are now taking care of him. AND FOR THE RECORD I AM NOT DECREASING HIS PARENT'S IMPORTANCE BY SAYING OH THEY'RE DEAD NOW THEY DON'T MATTER I AM JUST SAYING THAT TIFA AND CLOUD ARE NOW PROBABLY VERY IMPORTANT TO HIM AND COULD DEFINITELY BE SEEN AS PARENTAL FIGURES.

Denzel's parents are his parents.
Cloud and Tifa are also his parents. Several very obvious parallels are drawn between his biological parents and C/T, not the least of which is the way Tifa holds his hand in the revised Monument sequence. There's also the hair thing, which is totally naff on its own, but when taken in consideration with other things, could be seen as another nod.
Another major one is that we get an image of the family photo sitting in the wreckage of Midgar just prior to Cloud's discovery of the boy. Blatant thematic linking of old and new family.
Plus his putting the photo of his parents beside his bed alongside the picture of himself, Marlene, and Cloud, natch.

 

[Mantichorus]

I call my grandma "Pat". Does that stop her being my grandma or grandmother figure?

Well, no, and one of my friends calls his parents by their first names. My point is, since AC, a lot of people seem to have the opinion that Cloud and Tifa have more or less adopted Marlene. However, Marlene refers to Barret as "Papa". She doesn't call him Barret, or Mr T., but Papa.

 

[Vendel]

Well, no, and one of my friends calls his parents by their first names. My point is, since AC, a lot of people seem to have the opinion that Cloud and Tifa have more or less adopted Marlene. However, Marlene refers to Barret as "Papa". She doesn't call him Barret, or Mr T., but Papa.

And them adopting her would somehow make Barret not her father?

And how many years does she have to live in the 7th Heaven family for it to be official to you?

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Why does it matter? Even if Marlene doesn't view Cloud as a father figure (and it stands to reason that she DOES, but let's say she doesn't for argument) that in no way negates how Cloud views himself in relation to her and the family unit as a whole. Tifa views him similar to a 'young father' and certainly Denzel idolizes him, and Marlene refers to him as her family, so again, I'm wondering HOW exactly this is relevant to the LTD...?

As for Tifa...she introduces Marlene AS HER DAUGHTER, it's pretty safe to slap the MOM title on Tifa, even though Marlene still calls her "Tifa".

My nephew was adopted by my aunt because my sister was unable to take care of him, but he's still my nephew and still is referred to as such even though 'legally' he's now my cousin. And he's called brother to both my aunt's children and my sister's other child.

Adoption doesn't negate all other familial ties--especially when done so within an already established family unit. It doesn't work like that. Trying to black and white that situation is stupid and limited in perspective.

Apparently pink glasses aren't only sparkly, they narrow the vision as well.

 

[Mantichorus]

And them adopting her would somehow make Barret not her father?

And how many years does she have to live in the 7th Heaven family for it to be official to you?

Look, maybe I'm not explaining myself properly. I have a headcold, it's not outside the realms of possibility.

The impression I got of the group in AC was that of an extended family - i.e., not just siblings and parents, but aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandpa Vincent.

Marlene reacts to Tifa and Cloud in AC much how I react with some of my aunts and uncles. When Barret calls Cloud shortly after Cloud's first encounter with Kadaj's gang, he seems to just be saying "everything's going fine, let Marlene know I'll be home soon".

This suggests to me that Marlene is staying with Cloud and Tifa while Barret is away on business. This doesn't mean she doesn't look at Cloud and Tifa as parental figures - regarding authority, care, influence - but that she doesn't consider them her parents. Hell, my godmother and grandmother helped raise me as much as my mother, but I don't consider them my parents.

Why does it matter? Even if Marlene doesn't view Cloud as a father figure (and it stands to reason that she DOES, but let's say she doesn't for argument) that in no way negates how Cloud views himself in relation to her and the family unit as a whole. Tifa views him similar to a 'young father' and certainly Denzel idolizes him, and Marlene refers to him as her family, so again, I'm wondering HOW exactly this is relevant to the LTD...?

Y'know, this is what I'm wondering. I came in to make a reply to TresDias' joke, now everyone's treating me like I suggested Hitler was an alright bloke.

 

[Vendel]

The impression I got of the group in AC was that of an extended family - i.e., not just siblings and parents, but aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandpa Vincent.

Except the 7th heaven family is specifically pointed out as 4 people. Barret is not included. Nor is anyone else. That is Cloud and Tifa's family. Anyone else would be under the category of friends in C/T's mind. That doesn't stop Barret from being Marlene's dad. Nor thinking of him as such. But she is a part of the C/T family unit now.

This suggests to me that Marlene is staying with Cloud and Tifa while Barret is away on business.

And how long does daddy have to be "away on business" before he is no longer living there and she is unofficially adopted? Because compilation time it has been the better part of 3-4 years. He visits when he can and calls. But Barret does not live there.

This doesn't mean she doesn't look at Cloud and Tifa as parental figures - regarding authority, care, influence - but that she doesn't consider them her parents.

If she considers anyone her mother at this point it is Tifa.

Hell, my godmother and grandmother helped raise me as much as my mother, but I don't consider them my parents.Y'know, this is what I'm wondering. I came in to make a reply to TresDias' joke, now everyone's treating me like I suggested Hitler was an alright bloke.

No. I am just curious why you seem to want to put this space between Marlene and the rest of her family. According to you Marlene is not really a part of the 7th heaven family unit. They are just babysitting her for an extended period.

 

[Mantichorus]

Except the 7th heaven family is specifically pointed out as 4 people. Barret is not included. Nor is anyone else. That is Cloud and Tifa's family. Anyone else would be under the category of friends in C/T's mind. That doesn't stop Barret from being Marlene's dad. Nor thinking of him as such. But she is a part of the C/T family unit now.

Hmm... is this in one of the OTWTAS entries, or are you referring to the photos in AC/ACC?

I know some people who have actually taken such family photos with close friends of the family also in shot. I've never seen the point, TBH, but it does happen. And as Marlene's closer than just a family friend... *shrug*

And how long does daddy have to be "away on business" before he is no longer living there and she is unofficially adopted? Because compilation time it has been the better part of 3-4 years. He visits when he can and calls. But Barret does not live there.

AFAIK, at the point of AC (the latest point in the Compilation we see Marlene staying there), it's been two years since the original game. How long has Marlene supposedly been staying there?

As for how long... *shrug* How long's a piece of string? My mum divorced my dad when I was three. Her current partner has lived with us since I was sixteen. I wouldn't think of him as a father figure. But then, Marlene's a wee bit younger. XD

If she considers anyone her mother at this point it is Tifa.

Unofrtunately, there's not a lot of competition in that area. But then, Tifa acted as a big sister/mom for the entire party in the original game - even for Barret, Cid and Vincent, who are all older than her by a decade upwards.

No. I am just curious why you seem to want to put this space between Marlene and the rest of her family. According to you Marlene is not really a part of the 7th heaven family unit. They are just babysitting her for an extended period.

I wasn't referring to you specifically Vendel. Maybe it's just I'm feeling out of my normal territory in the forums, so I'm extra sensitive to inquisition. I never expected it. (First person to make the relevant Monty Python reference gets Thanked.)

Really, I just never saw Marlene as actually living there 24/7, 365. If it's stated as such in a OTWTAS, then I apologise and stand corrected (haven't read all the OTWTAS entires yet... really should).

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

Really, I just never saw Marlene as actually living there 24/7, 365. If it's stated as such in a OTWTAS, then I apologise and stand corrected (haven't read all the OTWTAS entires yet... really should).

Do you mean living at the bar with Teef, 24/7, 365? I think she does. IIRC, Cloud, Barret, Tifa and Marlene move in there after the events of the original game, then Barret leaves Marlene to Tifa (and Cloud) before going off to settle his past. Check out Case of Tifa. If I misunderstood/misread, apologies.

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

Btw, my Clerith ex-housie insists that Zack's voiceover as Cloud is shown dragging the Buster Sword towards Midgar can be interpreted as him "not minding" if Cloud dates her (as he is "commending her to his care" + he is Zack's "living legacy"). " Thoughts?

 

[Ryushikaze]

Hmm... is this in one of the OTWTAS entries, or are you referring to the photos in AC/ACC?

OTWTAS and the U10.

I know some people who have actually taken such family photos with close friends of the family also in shot. I've never seen the point, TBH, but it does happen. And as Marlene's closer than just a family friend... *shrug*AFAIK, at the point of AC (the latest point in the Compilation we see Marlene staying there), it's been two years since the original game. How long has Marlene supposedly been staying there?

Two years.

As for how long... *shrug* How long's a piece of string? My mum divorced my dad when I was three. Her current partner has lived with us since I was sixteen. I wouldn't think of him as a father figure. But then, Marlene's a wee bit younger. XDUnofrtunately, there's not a lot of competition in that area. But then, Tifa acted as a big sister/mom for the entire party in the original game - even for Barret, Cid and Vincent, who are all older than her by a decade upwards.

Sister sure, Big sister, to those three, no. The other three members of original AVALANCHE, sure.

I wasn't referring to you specifically Vendel. Maybe it's just I'm feeling out of my normal territory in the forums, so I'm extra sensitive to inquisition. I never expected it. (First person to make the relevant Monty Python reference gets Thanked.)

The first person? So that's Neutron Ronnie and Mysel- First TWO people. Ronnie, Myself, and A fanatical devotion to the pope- first THREE People!...

Really, I just never saw Marlene as actually living there 24/7, 365. If it's stated as such in a OTWTAS, then I apologise and stand corrected (haven't read all the OTWTAS entires yet... really should).

She does, you should.

Do you mean living at the bar with Teef, 24/7, 365? I think she does. IIRC, Cloud, Barret, Tifa and Marlene move in there after the events of the original game, then Barret leaves Marlene to Tifa (and Cloud) before going off to settle his past. Check out Case of Tifa. If I misunderstood/misread, apologies.

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

Btw, my Clerith ex-housie insists that Zack's voiceover as Cloud is shown dragging the Buster Sword towards Midgar can be interpreted as him "not minding" if Cloud dates her (as he is "commending her to his care" + he is Zack's "living legacy"). " Thoughts?

"And before I die, I want you to know that if you want to tap my grlfriend you've never met, feel free."

In short, no.

 

[Raquelborn]

Do you mean living at the bar with Teef, 24/7, 365? I think she does.

She has been for at least 3 years and that's not even considering the years prior to the events of the original game. That's about ages 2-5 of Marlene's life? As the only caring grown woman around Marlene at such a young age (when child-mother bonds finish forming), I think it's safe to say she certainly does view Tifa as pretty much her own mother. Cloud's the boyfriend.

(Though Marlene seems to be taking care of Tifa in AC/C. Bless.)

Btw, my Clerith ex-housie insists that Zack's voiceover as Cloud is shown dragging the Buster Sword towards Midgar can be interpreted as him "not minding" if Cloud dates her (as he is "commending her to his care" + he is Zack's "living legacy"). " Thoughts?

I think that's interesting actually. Zack wanted Cloud to take his sword, carry on his honour, live out his dream of being a hero; so why not take Aerith too? I doubt the scene itself is trying to convey *nudge nudge go get my girlfriend* though.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Just an off-note, I've read a couple of fanfics that mention Marlene starting to call Tifa "mama" or "mom", etc, after the events of AC. And I just can't see it, TBH. I can't see Marlene calling Tifa "Mom". Tifa takes care of her sure, but....I just can't see the actual word being used for Tifa. I'll await someone making a "milf" joke now....

 

[Eerie]

It reminds me of Barret telling Denzel to "stay here and protect your mother" in ACC [at 1:11:59], despite Denzel still calling her "Tifa" And also him wondering who are the other members of Avalanche because obviously, despite him living there for some time, he never saw them [for the "extension of the family"].

As for Cloud being Zack's legacy and thus having the thumbs up from Zack to make out with Aerith... OLOLOL I'm sorry, but WHUT? So now being asked to live, to become a hero [the hero you've always wanted to become, for another girl may I add], to carry on his memory = lol make out /w my gf since I'm dead

 

[Raquelborn]

Just an off-note, I've read a couple of fanfics that mention Marlene starting to call Tifa "mama" or "mom", etc, after the events of AC. And I just can't see it, TBH. I can't see Marlene calling Tifa "Mom".

I can imagine Denzel doing it though. He seems very attached to her like that.

EDIT:

being asked to live, to become a hero [the hero you've always wanted to become, for another girl may I add], to carry on his memory = lol make out /w my gf since I'm dead

If Zack can give Cloud his sword, the symbol of his dreams, honour and memories of Angeal (something very precious to him) and then ask him to live on as his legacy, falling for Aerith could be considered a part of that.

Now I'm not saying he did want Cloud to get with Aerith. I can just see where Neutron's friend is coming from to an extent.

 

[Makoeyes987]

When I die, I'm totally going to tell my best friend to tap my girlfriend. Because that's what best friends too.

In other news, I'm going to close this thread soon, as soon as I find out another premise to make a new LTD thread. So FYI don't be surprised.