So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Isabella]

So... basically she had romantic feelings for him then right?... YES probably from seeing Zack in him, but the feelings were there right?

Of course she had feelings for him. I'd never deny that. Though I do think Cleriths are too quick to toss aside the Zack factor. I think there are several factors involved, but I won't dispute she had feelings.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

If Cloud is allowed to move on from Aerith, why can't Aerith move on from Zack? Especially in the span of, I don't know... six years?

I think Aerith could move on to love Cloud, but it's sort of sad because she never got to know the real person Cloud was underneath it all, and she clearly wanted to. Can you fall in love with someone if you don't know the real them?

 

[Dashell]

Of course she had feelings for him. I'd never deny that. Though I do think Cleriths are too quick to toss aside the Zack factor. I think there are several factors involved, but I won't dispute she had feelings.

Okay... good, that's all I wanted to hear. Thank you

 

[Vendel]

So... basically she had romantic feelings for him then right?... YES probably from seeing Zack in him, but the feelings were there right?

Probably because of Zack? PROBABLY?

 

[Fighter]

Call me a rabid cloti or whatever but to me the idea that Aerith had always loved Zack and her love for Cloud has never been real makes for a richer, complex and far more compelling characterization. They have both been pretending something that's not true, the final revelation in the lifestream holds up so much better this way. None of that she wuvs Cloud stuff. But this is me.

 

[Dashell]

Probably because of Zack? PROBABLY?

err okay yes, because of Zack. The thing is I thought you were trying to say Aerith never had romantic feelings for Cloud at all and... regardless of why they were there, they were there.

Call me a rabid cloti or whatever but to me the idea that Aerith had always loved Zack and her love for Cloud has never been real makes for a richer, complex and far more compelling characterization. They have both been pretending something that's not true, the final revelation in the lifestream holds up so much better this way. None of that she wuvs Cloud stuff. But this is me.

You rabid cloti or whatever

 

[Ryushikaze]

If Cloud is allowed to move on from Aerith, why can't Aerith move on from Zack? Especially in the span of, I don't know... six years?

Five years, and she can, and I think she was trying to, but she hadn't yet, and the appearance of ZaCloud only compounded the issue.

 

[Dashell]

Acutally going back I'm not sure why Vendel and I were arguing... we were pretty much saying the same thing, he were just using... better words.

...

Oh yeah I said let the Cleriths have the koibito thing, NM. That's why.
Frankly I just think it'd be more fun to let them use that in an argument and then say, "But I thought koibito just meant 'person who loves'"

 

[Isabella]

Oh yeah I said let the Cleriths have the koibito thing, NM. That's why.
Frankly I just think it'd be more fun to let them use that in an argument and then say, "But I thought koibito just meant 'person who loves'"

Except I think the argument has mutated yet again to, "it doesn't mention Cloud's name. She could be a koibito to anyone."

 

[Fighter]

If Cloud is allowed to move on from Aerith, why can't Aerith move on from Zack? Especially in the span of, I don't know... six years?

I think we've taken this concept a bit too far. It's not about can or can't. She didn't move on from Zack. Not only was she waiting and writing him letters for all these years, she followed a guy who stole part of Zack's identity and had been chasing that image all the to the date scene and then she died shortly after. So if people want to think she moved on to Cloud in that time... fine... but she never even knew him. She wasn't there with him in those defining moments when his personality finally unraveled.

Same way Cloud had never moved on from Tifa in the first place.

 

[Isabella]

Exactly, Fighter. We aren't saying they can't, we're saying they didn't. Because that's what all the evidence indicates.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Except I think the argument has mutated yet again to, "it doesn't mention Cloud's name. She could be a koibito to anyone."

To which the obvious counter is obviously "Yeah, and it doesn't say the woman is Aerith, either, so anyone could think Cloud was their koibito."
And unless that's snark, it's just as stupid as 'could be a koibito to anyone.'

Exactly, Fighter. We aren't saying they can't, we're saying they didn't. Because that's what all the evidence indicates.

It's fun speaking of definitives in a canon. That's why I try and stick to that as much as possible.

 

[Shadowfox]

If Cloud is allowed to move on from Aerith, why can't Aerith move on from Zack? Especially in the span of, I don't know... six years?

Sure she can. But the thing here is that her actions and behaviour during much of the game don't indicate that she had moved on yet. And when she finally showed that she may have been ready to start the moving on process (after her date), she dies soon after.

EDIT: Gah. Responded to already, several times. Curse my slow typing.

 

[Tennyo]

Another ltd gripe that I have is how clerii have this notion that Cloud drops everything and comes running to save Aerith always and naturally they try to contrast that with his behavior in CoT/AC with Tifa. Despite the fact that he's just as scared to go after Aerith when she leave and only goes after Tifa tells him to.

THIS! I never thought to make this point before. Cloud didn't seem very gung-ho to go after Aerith since it meant me might have to be near Sephiroth again. This was right after he already lost it at the temple. Sephiroth is messing him up. He didn't trust his own mind or self and he was scared. Tifa was the one who seemed more adamant that they go save Aerith then, not Cloud.

That's not to say that Cloud wouldn't eventually have come around and done it, but he didn't leap up immediately and was a bit flaky about it at first.

 

[Dashell]

Well they went after her twice. Once when she was kidnapped by Shinra and the other time in the Forgotten City. When she was captured by the Shinra, yeah he wanted to rescue her but I mean they all did. I seem to remember him running off and Barret says, "Where's he going?" and Tifa says, "Oh, Aerith."

I guess that's dropping everything... though I don't think there was much to drop at the time

 

[Tennyo]

Yeah. I mean Shinra did have her held captive, and they did just destroy Sector 7 which had them all pissed off anyway. To not go after Aerith then would have made no sense in the context of the story.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Plus, she had just saved Marlene's life. Among other reasons, they owed her.

But yes, editorializing/ making up the story has never been an issue with a certain group of slavering fangirls.

 

[Dashell]

Yeah as I said, nothing to drop, what else are they gonna do?

Cloud: Well Aerith's been taken captive. She saved Marlene's life, that was great of her. Now, sector 7 is destroyed and all our friends are dead... let's go fishing!

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

Cloud: Well Aerith's been taken captive. She saved Marlene's life, that was great of her. Now, sector 7 is destroyed and all our friends are dead... let's go fishing!

Which reminds me of...

Cloud: Well, Sephiroth messed with my mind and made off with the black materia, he wants to destroy the world. Aerith is currently sleeping with the fishes, she gave up her life to cast Holy, and that's great of her...

... Let's go snowboarding!


That aside though, yeah... I agree with everyone. There's a parallel here, though maybe I'm looking too hard... Aerith loved Zack, she tried to forget about that, got distracted by Cloud, but now she and Zack are together again.

Cloud loved Tifa, he DID forget about that - through no fault of his own, he got distracted by Aerith (questionable, this), but now he and Tifa are together again.

Then again... according to Cleriths, existing in the Lifestream together (Zack is said to be constantly at Aerith's side), and living in the same house, bringing up children (which is obviously what Tifa and Cloud are doing) are NOT romantic. Not romantic at all.

Oh, but putting a bunch of flowers next to a photograph is super-romantic.

I think I'll go tell my mom I'm gonna move in with my best friend and bring up a family with him. That'll be all right, because it's totally unromantic, you know.

 

[Dashell]

Here's something I thought of all by myself


What do you guys think? ...

...
oh yeah I forgot to ask the question..

Here it is:
How confident are you in your pairing? This is more for people who aren't neutral. I mean if Nomura or Nojima said in a magazine that in a future issue they'd reveal the answer to the FFVII Love Triangle (it's hypothetical, work with me ) and it was going to be one girl or the other, how confident are you that they'd say which ever one you voted for?

Honestly there's not a doubt in my mind that he'd say Tifa. I mean at this point with saying they belong together and the promised land and marriage thing, Aerith walking off with Zack in AC/C, no doubts what so ever. But I wonder if anyone else has any doubts... do you? If so, why?

 

[Isabella]

I think the love triangle is much more complicated than "Cloud loves A or B." But if the question were, "Are Cloud and Tifa in a romantic relationship?" I have absolutely zero doubt the answer would be yes.

 

[Dashell]

I think the love triangle is much more complicated than "Cloud loves A or B."

Point taken, I guess I meant the answer in the current situation of the present as in Case of Denzel.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Ja, I know the rest replied, but the whole "it's in the past" thing is so stupid and bothersome.

It's not a matter of "if A can do it, so can B"

Even in the original game, without having the added information like the fact that Zack and Cloud crash through her roof in exactly the same way, or that the ribbon she wears is a gift from Zack etc. etc., Aeris' affections for Cloud were always on some level touching back to this ex boyfriend of hers.

Cloud was a Soldier like him. Acted like him. Was just like him. Aeris herself says she wants to meet the real Cloud -- meaning the Cloud she doesn't know.

So really, it was always kind of fishy and I thought it was clear that Aeris wasn't as free of Zack's memory as she thought she was. The Compilation just kinda really takes that and whacks you over the head with it.

It is clear in the game itself, without any added crap, that she is not fully over it. She is distraught and shaking when she finds out Zack wrote home about a girl he was serious about. She brings him up several times in conversation. She immediately follows Cloud around because he looks like her ex.

How is this indicative of moving on? Yes, the new additions to the compilation have completely destroyed even the possibility, but my point is that even the original did not really leave it up to interpretation.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Not to mention, there's never any indication that Aerith wasn't herself at any point in the Compilation. Whereas the original game whacks you over the head that Cloud, on the first disc, is not Cloud. The dichotomy between the two cases is just about as stark as can be even in the original game.

 

[Vendel]

But don't you understand. She said she was over Zack. And Aerith could never be lying. Not even to herself. She is perfect.