So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Ⓐaron]

But don't you understand. She said she was over Zack. And Aerith Sue could never be lying. Not even to herself. She is perfect.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Neutron Ronnie]

I agree. Aerith would've totally told Cloud "Oh it WAS serious, and I'm stalking following you around because you remind me strongly of my ex-boyfriend" if it was true. But she didn't say that... so it isn't true.

 

[Dashell]

Cloud was a Soldier like him. Acted like him. Was just like him. Aeris herself says she wants to meet the real Cloud -- meaning the Cloud she doesn't know.

Whilst I understand she saw some Zack in him, I really don't think Cloud acted that much like Zack. It was a cross between Zack and... whatever the hell Jenova was doing.

I mean Zack was always happy and bouncy, and originally Cloud was, but after the Jenova thing he just seemed... well he wasn't very nice and didn't wanna help people. I'm not sure even he knew what he was doing. A SOLDIER he thought he was, but Zack he was not.

 

[Tennyo]

Oooooohhhh let us all not forget that Cloud dressed up as a WOMAN of all things just so that he could infiltrate Don Corneo's mansion for the sake of rescuing TIFA. XD *is replaying FFVII and just did that part* lol

And don't try to tell me he did it because it was Aerith's idea. The whole point of their wanting to get into the mansion was to get to Tifa to make sure she was fine. That's what Cloud wanted to do. lol

I just wanted to throw that out there.

Also, does anyone understand what Cloud and Aerith said to each other at the Honeybee Inn? "Hmm... so that's how you'll fool them." "Hhhmmmmmmmm... so that's how you fooled them." I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT!!!!!!

 

[Dashell]

Oooooohhhh let us all not forget that Cloud dressed up as a WOMAN of all things just so that he could infiltrate Don Corneo's mansion for the sake of rescuing TIFA. XD *is replaying FFVII and just did that part* lol

And don't try to tell me he did it because it was Aerith's idea. The whole point of their wanting to get into the mansion was to get to Tifa to make sure she was fine. That's what Cloud wanted to do. lol

HAHA good point. Talk about dropping EVERYTHING to save someone... I think his dignity took a pretty big drop from that
Oh hell who am I kidding, I know he loved it

 

[Frostwave]

Also, does anyone understand what Cloud and Aerith said to each other at the Honeybee Inn? "Hmm... so that's how you'll fool them." "Hhhmmmmmmmm... so that's how you fooled them." I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT!!!!!!

http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=30

 

[Tennyo]

Ah, yes, now I remember. I do believe I have read that thread before. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Whilst I understand she saw some Zack in him, I really don't think Cloud acted that much like Zack. It was a cross between Zack and... whatever the hell Jenova was doing.

I mean Zack was always happy and bouncy, and originally Cloud was, but after the Jenova thing he just seemed... well he wasn't very nice and didn't wanna help people. I'm not sure even he knew what he was doing. A SOLDIER he thought he was, but Zack he was not.

To whit, Quexi, the less like Zack Cloud acts, the more Aerith bringing Zack up indicates how much of the Zack she was focusing on.
It's not that Cloud = Zack 100%. It's that Aerith SEES the Zack.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

I never got that Cloud was 100% Zack, but I did get that Aerith saw her ex in him. It's one of the very first things she reveals to Cloud, for crying out loud. It's a direct: "Here, this is why she likes this guy". She asks about his rank, makes comments on his eyes, and then shuts down the moment Cloud asks for elaboration. Denial is a beautiful thing.

I also found it funny that when Cloud spends the night at Aerith's he gets the memory of his mother telling him he should settle down with an older girlfriend that can take care of him and he's all "Not interested." Maybe I'm just giving the creators (and definitely the players) too much credit in assuming these lines are INTENTIONAL and giving us insight without hand-holding us through the narrative...

Of course, I could be wrong...

 

[Raquelborn]

But the word "koibito" implies an actual, serious relationship.

Well it's the kind of word you can use for an unofficial affair too. But the underlying meaning is the same, two people are intimate and very much mutually together.

I also found it funny that when Cloud spends the night at Aerith's he gets the memory of his mother telling him he should settle down with an older girlfriend that can take care of him and he's all "Not interested." Maybe I'm just giving the creators (and definitely the players) too much credit in assuming these lines are INTENTIONAL and giving us insight without hand-holding us through the narrative...

What I find funny is when Cloud's "not interested" line is ignored and only his mother's recommendation to get with an older woman is given any attention.

Actually, how old was Cloud in that flashback? He was in Shinra uniform so he must of been 16/17 before he was experimented on. Maybe he visited his mother when he returned Nibelheim with Sephiroth and Zack and that's when the scene occured.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Seems likely to me @ Raquelborn. I don't think there's anything saying he never visited his mother when he went back to Nibelheim.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Apparently some people don't remember the flashback sequence in Kalm as well as they should. Yes, the 'not interested' happened at the start of the Nibleheim incident.

 

[Tennyo]

Yup. Go to Cloud's house and his mother dotes and fawns over him like any mother whose kid was just gone for two years. She says Cloud needs and older girl and he tells her he isn't interested.

This of course does make me think about how planned the flash of memory in Aerith's house was. Were the creators trying to screw with us? His mom saying get an older girl while he says no all while he's sleeping in Aerith's house? Is it a hint to us that his relationship with Aerith is nothing more than a red herring because in the end we find out he has feelings for another girl?

OR was Cloud just remembering, like his subconscious implies, the last time he slept in a nice comfy bed like this, which just so happened to be at his mom's house in Nibelheim before it all burned down? Maybe it as all just a coincidence?

Stuff to ponder.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yup. Go to Cloud's house and his mother dotes and fawns over him like any mother whose kid was just gone for two years. She says Cloud needs and older girl and he tells her he isn't interested.

This of course does make me think about how planned the flash of memory in Aerith's house was. Were the creators trying to screw with us? His mom saying get an older girl while he says no all while he's sleeping in Aerith's house? Is it a hint to us that his relationship with Aerith is nothing more than a red herring because in the end we find out he has feelings for another girl?

OR was Cloud just remembering, like his subconscious implies, the last time he slept in a nice comfy bed like this, which just so happened to be at his mom's house in Nibelheim before it all burned down? Maybe it as all just a coincidence?

Stuff to ponder.

It's both, and more. In narratives, Flashbacks and prequels are always important, as they alter how we view the 'present'
So anyone telling you that the past doesn't count or something is entirely in the past in a narrative is categorically wrong.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Tentacle rape > supposed LTD

 

[Tennyo]

It's both, and more. In narratives, Flashbacks and prequels are always important, as they alter how we view the 'present'
So anyone telling you that the past doesn't count or something is entirely in the past in a narrative is categorically wrong.

I guess what I meant was, is that memory important to the LTD or is it just all part of trying to show us how messed up in the head Cloud was?

 

[Isabella]

I guess what I meant was, is that memory important to the LTD or is it just all part of trying to show us how messed up in the head Cloud was?

In terms of the LTD I think it's another red herring, similar to when Cloud seemed like he wasn't interested in the promise in the beginning. At the time, it could lead people to think he's thinking about Aerith, but when we understand the context in hindsight we release he had nothing but Tifa on his mind.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'm so amused by the fact that people are still trying to say that because Aerith called called her "koibito" that it's representative of the fact despite it being third person limited restriction. This amuses me greatly.

Honestly, I feel that the whole argument about which point of view it is to be fundamentally flawed. While point of view can be revealing about a story, many writers will stretch the traditional boundaries if not flout them completely. The traditional definitions don't dictate the point of view that the writer uses; they describe patterns used in writing. Literary terms aren't a set of rules that writers follow.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is nothing in the piece to suggest that the statement "Cloud is the woman's friend, lover" is anything but an objective narration, regardless of whether or not the narrator is solely following Aeris. As a writer, I wouldn't put in something like that, state it so factually, and give no indication that the reader shouldn't trust the description. And as a reader, I wouldn't pick up on that either.

and

That's a simplification though. Limited narrators can also switch viewpoints. Harry Potter, for example, has a narrator limited most of the time to Harry's perspective. Sometimes, however, it switches to follow a character like Snape. But even when it's following Snape, it's still limited because it's only following that one character's thoughts. However, the third person limited narrator usually doesn't reveal information the followed character doesn't know.

Personally, I think of third person limited being characterized as the narrator vociferating the followed character's thoughts and feelings. It's a way of getting a closer understanding of the character without it being told from the first person. This emphasized difference is essential since it means that the third person limited narrator CAN stretch the boundaries of knowledge beyond just the followed chracter.

Either way, the context doesn't have much impact on this quote. Even if we take the statement "Cloud is the woman's friend, koibito" as being ONLY Aerith's understanding of their relationship (regardless of the fact that this same narrator notes when something is Aerith's thoughts versus what IS), they can't possibly make the further assumption that Aerith would have no justifiable reason to refer to Cloud as her koibito other than her sentiments towards him? "Oh, I WISH this guy was my boyfriend, so I'm just gonna call him that." Seriously?

 

[Dashell]

Thank you for not quoting my post in there because I know I really fucked it up

 

[Makoeyes987]

 

[Isabella]

Is the Bothan Spynet at work again? Who wrote all that?

 

[Makoeyes987]

You know we don't give names out to who posts what.

We'll just call her "literary interpretation and analysis Clerith"

 

[Isabella]

We'll just call her "literary interpretation and analysis Clerith"

Is that her official title? I guess I can't compete with that. I'll take my master's in lit and go home.

 

[Dashell]

I was kind of surprised. Someone made a topic about what people on the forum think is canon. Cloti, Clerith or neither... they have a lot of neither there. In fact even ... the two head admins voted neither and I thought for sure they'd go Clerith.

 

[Hinata Hyuga]

I'm not surprised at the 'neither' votes. It seems like a way for them to get out of showing evidence that Clerith is canon, because it doesn't exist.

So instead of "Clerith is canon because..", it's "neither is canon because it's all interpretation".

Whatever.