So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Makoeyes987]

You don't seem to be aware of most of the official guidebooks and creator commentary regarding the Compilation of FFVII, so I'd like to direct you to our frontpage and have you take a look at our exclusive translations.

I'd like to point out that Tifa's place in Cloud's heart has been pointed out numerous times by the creators. The AC Reunion Files refers to her as Cloud's lover/koibito, for one.

The Crisis Core Complete Guide lists Cloud and Tifa as a special unique keyword, and outlines them being together.

The profile for Tifa in the CC Ultimania talks about Cloud and Tifa "realize their feelings for each other in the end of the story, and living together in AC and DC."

Case of Tifa's Revised Edition has several new additions that feature Cloud and Tifa becoming closer to each other and them being equated as a mother and father together.

And Nojima, in regards to "Case of Tifa" stated:

"Episode Tifa"... first off, there's the premise that things won't go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same. I don't really intend to go about my views on love or marriage or family (laughs). After ACC, I guess Denzel and Marlene could help them work it out. Maybe things would have gone well with Aerith, but I think there is a great burden from Aerith. Oh, I just remembered. I wanted to write Cloud as a person, seen through Tifa's eyes. But he really isn't the type to open up (laughs).

Notice how he speaks of Cloud and Tifa. He put his views of Love and Family, in regards to their relationship. And Cloud and Aerith are spoken of as a hypothetical. Meaning it never happened but is a "what if."

The FFVII Ultimania Omega clearly states that Cait Sith's fortune telling skills are nothing special and usually wrong, since he's just a robot. And that commercial image that states "love" was done by the US advertising department of Square. It has no official backing from the creators or anything.

And yeah, the alternate universe of Kingdom Hearts isn't relevant to FFVII. Those are different people. Maybe Cloud and Aerith could have a thing going on there, but do keep in mind that in KH Tifa is Cloud's light as well.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

And I don't believe what you said disproves of any of the romantic implications for Cloud and Aerith in any of those games.

KH: He's looking for Sephiroth in KH1, and Aerith leans in and looks at him in the ending credits. ZOMG CANONZ.
KH2: Cloud makes several non-committal answers to Aerith and in the end promises to come back, but receives light from Tifa in the end unless you believe Cloud has inner light or any other completely over thought and convoluted theory.
FFT: Cloud sees Aerith. ZOMG STILL CANONZ.
Itadaki: You see him in the opening, but he talks more to Tifa in-game.

I can see how this all is very romantic. But I don't know how it effects the original game.

 

[Vendel]

Notice how he speaks of Cloud and Tifa. He put his views of Love and Family, in regards to their relationship. And Cloud and Tifa are spoken of as a hypothetical. Meaning it never happened but is a "what if."

You mean Cloud and Aerith are spoken of as hypothetical right? We don't want any confusion here.

 

[Makoeyes987]

You mean Cloud and Aerith are spoken of as hypothetical right? We don't want any confusion here.

I have no idea what you're talking about Vendel

Thanksforpointingthatout

 

[Vendel]

I have no idea what you're talking about Vendel

Thanksforpointingthatout

 

[Eerie]

I think Caitsith telling Cloud and Aerith their stars are perfect for each other and then predicting a marriage for the both of them together means a lot.

So you think a stuff plushie that's a fake and can't predict shit actually said the truth, right before the game pulls a 180 on you? ._. That's interesting, to say the least.

And I've always looked at Aerith and Cloud's date as, well, romantic. That is what dates are for, for people who are romantically involved;

Cloud being uninterested in Aerith telling him she knows he's not the real him is more romantic than Cloud being interested in what Tifa is telling him, and being interrupted by the fireworks as the song that plays at that moment? How? ._.

This means a lot too.
"A girl with the blood of the Ancients flowing through her veins who is engraved in Cloud's heart for the rest of his life." - DoC Manual

So is Zack. The dead stay in the hearts and memories of the living. It's not as romantic as it sounds in Japanese than what it sounds in English, if I must follow what teh evil hito says.

As for the pic, how should Cloud put her in the water? Throwing her? \o/ I mean, come on, it was supposed to be a sad moment for the players AND for the characters. If this is love, then why is it that a few days after, he asks Tifa to start living with him, in a different way than before?

And it seems like Cloud is always looking for Aerith. He was in the KINGDOM HEARTS series. He was in FFVII. He was in Dissidia. And I find it incredibly romantic that both of them wish and promise to meet each other and come back to one another in the story and in every other Square Enix game.

Nuh-uh. He was looking for Sephiroth in KHI and II, if I follow what the creators say. I fail to see the clerith in Dissidia, when he talked about Zack, if I understood that right?

I'll clue you in: AU games don't make a pairing canon.

No disrespect to anyone here but, I honestly have never seen anything that leads to Cloud loving Tifa romantically. Or that they're in a relationship at all. So I'm not sure why everyone says Cloud and Tifa are together romantically if it has not been stated. I think the only girl that can have any chance of actually saying they are or were romantically involved or just in a realtionship with Cloud would be Aerith. After all, Cloud and Aerith are the two that actually went on a date.
Or should I say dates. I believe Mr. Nomura or one of the creators said that when Cloud and Aerith are in the park (before they see Tifa on the wagon) that you can call it a "date."

I don't think Cloud and Tifa have ever been on a date before have they? And I don't believe they've been said to be dating. And I don't think they're married yet, so I guess they're not in a relationship.

Barret helps Cloud and Tifa to build THEIR home. They are a family. Tifa wears the pants. Cloud wants to start over with her in a different way. Tifa is someone's beloved [AC/C]. Cloud is like a father, Tifa is like a mother. Tifa is in love with Cloud. Cloud has been in love with Tifa since they were kids and nothing has changed since that time. Cloud and Tifa share a risqué scene under the Highwind. Cloud and Tifa realized their mutual feelings during the game. At the end of AC/C, Cloud finds his own promise land [and that's with Tifa and his family, to whom he comes back to]. Cloud and Tifa belong together. Nojima, when talking about CoT, talks about Cloud and Tifa's problems and associate them with the problems a couple can have.
Oh and, the Cloud and Tifa date IS also OFFICIAL stuff. So don't brush it off because you don't like it. Just like the Cloud and Aerith date is official.

All of these are quotes from the creators, stuff from the game, AC/C, etc.

Well, it is a Fantasy world. Everyone of the other Final Fantasies always have true love or soul mates. Look at Tidus and Yuna. Or Squall and Rinoa. Why would a fantasy world deal with magical and mythical creatures and storyline then have a normal realtionship?
It's not like the Final Fantasy.... tradition, if you will, to have a "normal" realtionship.

If you're into this stuff, then, Cloud/Tifa and Zack/Aerith certainly scream more soulmates/true wuv than Cloud/Aerith.

• Cloud and Tifa have been childhood friends; Cloud always had a crush on Tifa, and Tifa was also very interested in him until she build a love for him. It never changes until Cloud goes gaga and lose 4 years of his life. He's changed back into the ZaCloud we know thanks to Tifa. He made a promise etched in his heart to Tifa. He wants to become a Soldier to impress her. And when finally he lose his mind, it's Tifa who saves him. And then, we discover that his whole little world revolved around her. Years later, they're still together, raising a family.
• Zack and Aerith also share a promise; he's always by her side and she sent him many letters. She still wears pink for the day when they'll meet again, and she still wears his ribbon. They are together again in AC/C, and the ending clearly gives away that they are indeed reunited lovers beyond death [and melted in the Lifestream peacefully like that].
• Cloud and Aerith: meet up on day, while she's trying to forget about her boyfriend. Know each other for about 15 days, but Cloud wasn't truly himself, rather the image of her dead boyfriend that she loved deeply, and thus she began to fell in love with this Cloud that wasn't truly him. Meanwhile, Cloud was wiser to neither her or Tifa, during Disc One. How does that spell out true wuv and soulmate, please? All Cloud needs from her in AC/C is forgiveness - I haven't seen him pursuing her at all.

Also, I've left out some comments because my memories of the game are blurry; I need to be reminded of the context. Sorry for that.

 

[Hinata Hyuga]

Where did Cloud say that unfreezing Aerith's smile was the most important thing to him? Sorry, I don't remember that. :/

And how does the word 'love' appearing on a screen with Cloud and Aerith in it in a commercial that says "a love that can never be, and a hatred that always was" prove anything?

Was this commercial made by people who even played the game, much less created it? Because they got a pretty big detail wrong - that Cloud admired and looked up to Sephiroth. He didn't always hate him.

Wouldn't that mean Caitsith's fortunes aren't wrong?

How does Cait Sith predicting a bright future for them and a wedding that never happens prove his predictions are right?

 

[Splintered]

Oh shi- a clerith! I haven't seen one since I've come to this forum. A differing opinion is kind of refreshing.

Well I have few reasons that prove Cloud loves Aerith and Aerith loves Cloud.
I think Caitsith telling Cloud and Aerith their stars are perfect for each other and then predicting a marriage for the both of them together means a lot.

Well, I don't remember him predicting marriage. He just said they could be happy together, and if he did predict a marriage- wouldn't that be counterintuitive to your arguement, considering he just made a false prediction- proving that he can be wrong.

That aside, I personally don't think he was wrong. They were compatible. But that's just it, compatible. They maybe could have fallen in love, but she died before anything could happen. Compatibility isn't limited between just two people, and it certainly doesn't mean soul mates.

imo, they were a potentially blossoming relationship that never came to be. I saw Cloud flirt, with both girls, but there was nothing ever intense enough to call love. There was guilt, sadness, and attraction. But he didn't know her long enough for them to establish anything, Aerith barely knew who the real Cloud was, and he wasn't in a mindset to really understand his own feelings until disk two.

And when Cloud says unfreezing Aerith's smile is the most important reason to fight Sephiroth, it comes off as if he is in love with her.

-Cloud: "Even so, I have to fight. So, I can leave my past behind me. So I can be myself. And above all--- to unfreeze her smile."

That seems more like loyalty and less as romantic love. Even more so, it seems like trying to close up loose ends, Aerith's death was the biggest impact in FFVII for the entire party. The entire game probably. They all know that they had to avenge her so that her memory can be set at peace. It has less to do with love than it has to do with honoring and respecting.

And I've always looked at Aerith and Cloud's date as, well, romantic. That is what dates are for, for people who are romantically involved;
- In Aerith’s case, if you play the game normally, the partner that generally comes will be Aerith.

Well, yeah. It helps finish her story. She promised a date, they had one, and so there story is a little more concluded than before. Also, it doesn't prove much on Cloud's side. All things considered, he didn't seem to want to go on a date with anybody.

This means a lot too.
"A girl with the blood of the Ancients flowing through her veins who is engraved in Cloud's heart for the rest of his life." - DoC Manual

You honestly didn't think it wouldn't be? When people you love, be it friends-family-or romantic wise, they always get "engraved in their heart." No one is contending Aerith isn't important to Cloud. But that's a vague common sense statement.

Also, I'm not sure what people make of this;

I think it clearly shows who Cloud is in love with.

I honestly... don't get what that's suppose to show. I mean besides the sadness of the scene. Someone slapping on the word love on the sad scene doesn't make it more canon. If that's so I've got tons of fanart proving that Cloud and Tifa are official.

And it seems like Cloud is always looking for Aerith. He was in the KINGDOM HEARTS series. He was in FFVII. He was in Dissidia. And I find it incredibly romantic that both of them wish and promise to meet each other and come back to one another in the story and in every other Square Enix game.

He wasn't looking for her in Kingdom Hearts.She wasn't his light, he met her once and then left. Tifa is much more interlaced with his story that Aerith is. Nor is he looking for her in Dissidia. wat.

No disrespect to anyone here but, I honestly have never seen anything that leads to Cloud loving Tifa romantically. Or that they're in a relationship at all. So I'm not sure why everyone says Cloud and Tifa are together romantically if it has not been stated. I think the only girl that can have any chance of actually saying they are or were romantically involved or just in a realtionship with Cloud would be Aerith. After all, Cloud and Aerith are the two that actually went on a date.
Or should I say dates. I believe Mr. Nomura or one of the creators said that when Cloud and Aerith are in the park (before they see Tifa on the wagon) that you can call it a "date."

Cloud and Aerith might have gone on some lukewarm dates, but Cloud and Tifa have two character changing, intense, and potentially romantic scenes that meant more to Cloud than 1. sitting in a playground with a girl he barely knew, and 2. Going to goldsaucer. The highwind scene and the memory scene not only meant more to Cloud as a character than any other "date" he had with Aerith, but it also focused heavily on the relationship between Cloud and Tifa.

Tifa is just as central to Cloud as Aerith is. The only difference is, Aerith means more in her death, while Tifa means more in her living and growing with Cloud.

I don't think Cloud and Tifa have ever been on a date before have they? And I don't believe they've been said to be dating. And I don't think they're married yet, so I guess they're not in a relationship.

I guess the "family" is a relationship, though. A platonic one, Tifa says so herself in Case of Tifa. But other then a family made of friends type of relationship I don't think it's been said to be anything more then just friends.

One couple in the canons of FF main couplings, have ever gotten married and that's in IV. Tifa and Cloud don't have to be married to love each other. A ring on the finger is not the only indication of a relationship.

Well, it is a Fantasy world. Everyone of the other Final Fantasies always have true love or soul mates. Look at Tidus and Yuna. Or Squall and Rinoa. Why would a fantasy world deal with magical and mythical creatures and storyline then have a normal realtionship?
It's not like the Final Fantasy.... tradition, if you will, to have a "normal" realtionship.

Well. Penelo/Vaan have a pretty normal childhood relationship turned romantic. And I'm not entirely unsure that Cloud/Tifa don't have a bit of that starcrossed romance in them.

And quite frankly, Zack/Aerith have tons more "epic romance" than Cloud/Aerith and Cloud/Tifa put together. Instant attraction, having her as his last thoughts, Aerith continuing on his memory by wearing her ribbon and pink. And it's blatant that they loved each other, moreso than Cloud ever showed.

 

[Strangelove]

How many adverts have mislead people about things in the past? Mixing up scenes and dialogue, making things seem different from how they actually are.

Where did Cloud say that unfreezing Aerith's smile was the most important thing to him? Sorry, I don't remember that. :/

That was from the FFVII Kaitai Shinsho/Dismantled book, the little diaries/thoughts for the characters (written by Maiden's Benny Matsuyama ) but not actually from the game.

But I won't trust that. I hear the person who translated it was a real biased cracker who can't be trusted

How does Cait Sith predicting a bright future for them and a wedding that never happens prove his predictions are right?

He knew what was going to happen and was trolling them.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9004/caitsith.jpg

This is from the Ultimania Omega, Cait Sith's profile (page 41). The last line says that most of his fortures aren't accurate, and calls his fortunetelling skills dubious.

 

[Reith123]

thanks to syneiam and tyrant, we can all rest peacefully thank you for proving CloTi

 

[Splintered]

That was from the FFVII Kaitai Shinsho/Dismantled book, the little diaries/thoughts for the characters (written by Maiden's Benny Matsuyama ) but not actually from the game.

What is this? I've never heard of it D:

Is there a linku? Even if it was written by the same guy that wrote Maiden, it would be kind of interesting to read.

But I won't trust that. I hear the person who translated it was a real biased cracker who can't be trusted

 

[Hinata Hyuga]

Well, I don't remember him predicting marriage. He just said they could be happy together

He offered to be their preacher, and to tell him when it all happens, so I think that when he was expecting them to marry in the future.

(I do agree that they could have been compatible, though. But yeah, it doesn't prove that SE saw fit to make them an actual couple. I'm pretty sure that any given person will meet up with more than one person they mesh well with. )

That was from the FFVII Kaitai Shinsho/Dismantled book, the little diaries/thoughts for the characters (written by Maiden's Benny Matsuyama ) but not actually from the game.

Okay, it wasn't in the game, or written by someone who holds any sway in the matter. lol. That's why I didn't remember.

But I won't trust that. I hear the person who translated it was a real biased cracker who can't be trusted

edit: O wow Splintered, you win with that emoticon!

 

[Alice Kingsley]

Cloud and Tifa have been childhood friends; Cloud always had a crush on Tifa, and Tifa was also very interested in him until she build a love for him. It never changes until Cloud goes gaga and lose 4 years of his life. He's changed back into the ZaCloud we know thanks to Tifa. He made a promise etched in his heart to Tifa. He wants to become a Soldier to impress her. And when finally he lose his mind, it's Tifa who saves him. And then, we discover that his whole little world revolved around her. Years later, they're still together, raising a family.

I Was trying to avoid this thread but that won't be possible for long It never says that cloud still has a crush on her, Do you have a quote saying Tifa was interested as a Teenager? The promise was Etched in his MIND, Not his heart. He wanted to when he was young how does this reflect on the Cloud we know now? Tifa saved him with Aeriths Help. The little world revolved around the pain she caused him. They aren't together Cloud's letting himself Die and Tifa is pushing ultimatums on him.

Zack and Aerith also share a promise; he's always by her side and she sent him many letters. She still wears pink for the day when they'll meet again, and she still wears his ribbon. They are together again in AC/C, and the ending clearly gives away that they are indeed reunited lovers beyond death [and melted in the Lifestream peacefully like that].

Its stated she loves Cloud Seriously move on.

Cloud and Aerith: meet up on day, while she's trying to forget about her boyfriend. Know each other for about 15 days, but Cloud wasn't truly himself, rather the image of her dead boyfriend that she loved deeply, and thus she began to fell in love with this Cloud that wasn't truly him. Meanwhile, Cloud was wiser to neither her or Tifa, during Disc One. How does that spell out true wuv and soulmate, please? All Cloud needs from her in AC/C is forgiveness - I haven't seen him pursuing her at all.

She already forgot about him, You can't for sure say it was 15 Days. So that really wouldn't affect how Cloud Remembered her, and Aerith could get to know him from the Lifestream, She already knew the real him and was very Interested. They have their own Promised Land a private place they share where Tifa neither can be or even exists. He was letting himself die, and if Cloud loved Tifa so much why was it difficult for him to let a "memory" go and be with his Beloved Family?

 

[Fairheartstrife]

I Was trying to avoid this thread but that won't be possible for long It never says that cloud still has a crush on her, Do you have a quote saying Tifa was interested as a Teenager? The promise was Etched in his MIND, Not his heart. He wanted to when he was young how does this reflect on the Cloud we know now? Tifa saved him with Aeriths Help. The little world revolved around the pain she caused him. They aren't together Cloud's letting himself Die and Tifa is pushing ultimatums on him.

Its stated she loves Cloud Seriously move on.

She already forgot about him, You can't for sure say it was 15 Days. So that really wouldn't affect how Cloud Remembered her, and Aerith could get to know him from the Lifestream, She already knew the real him and was very Interested. They have their own Promised Land a private place they share where Tifa neither can be or even exists. He was letting himself die, and if Cloud loved Tifa so much why was it difficult for him to let a "memory" go and be with his Beloved Family?

All of this... BWuahahahahahahahahaha... **wipes eyes** Oh, thank you for that. I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.

Suicidal depressed Cloud, angsting over rotting Aerith and bitchy Tifa... NOW we have a Clerith. **slow clap** You do your boots proud.


ps. Also, you do know your "Meeting her" quote is bogus, right?

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

]She already forgot about him, You can't for sure say it was 15 Days.

The Ultimania says they knew each other for about 2-3 weeks, Don't remember the exact time because I cba to look it up, but the entire game takes place in all of a month or two.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I don't know who that crazy asshole is who did the Dismantling translations but I'd take them with a pound of salt. He's biased as hell, and has no clue what he's talking about.

He's just a biased flunkie. <3

@Alice Kingsley

I love how you say that Tifa was the one pushing him away and the creators stated Tifa was the catalyst that helped Cloud move forward and find the strength to fight. Wow. Looks like you missed something.

And considering Cloud is back together with Tifa at the end of AC and in DC, you make no sense saying he's off in some "Promised Land" with Aerith. What the heck are you talking about?

 

[Dashell]

There's... a debate?... HELL YEAH!
Don't hog it all guys, I want some

It never says that cloud still has a crush on her, Do you have a quote saying Tifa was interested as a Teenager? The promise was Etched in his MIND, Not his heart.

In that case Aerith is also only in Cloud's mind in the DoC because the same kanji was used in regards to both statements.

The little world revolved around the pain she caused him.

uhm.. what?

He was letting himself die, and if Cloud loved Tifa so much why was it difficult for him to let a "memory" go and be with his Beloved Family?

Have you ever been so depressed you just.. give up? I have and that's where Cloud was. Let me tell you, the people who were the most important to me got cut off first. I didn't want anything to do with them or anybody else. I shut everyone off and lived in my own little world and I wanted to be away from everyone.

Tifa's not a therapist, she did what she could... eventually she got through to him. She was the catalyst for getting Cloud back on track. If anything she and Aerith helped Cloud together, but it wasn't just Aerith.

They have their own Promised Land a private place they share where Tifa neither can be or even exists.

Except that it was stated that Cloud's promised land was with his family

.... this is fun... I wanna do more

 

[Alice Kingsley]

though this isn't to all of you...

I should take the words of C/T Shippers who sit on this exact forums all day and Insult people at a whole other forum? Nay you take screencaps and talk about exactly what they talk about, you are so NOT fine with just liking youR ship that you have to do that? and look now a Clerith comes to debate with you and they get laughed at? I saw some people suffering from delusions here that's how desperate it seemed you needed a real debate. Can you even call it a debate when its just a bunch of Rabid fans insulting/Stalking some Cleriths on their own personal forum?

And now I'm a shipping Nazi? and because you see a quote you don't like all you can say is that its "not real!" "not real!" "not real!"

The Ultimania says they knew each other for about 2-3 weeks, Don't remember the exact time because I cba to look it up, but the entire game takes place in all of a month or two.

Proof please why should I take this Quote you speak of and believe its Canon? So love knows no time, Cloud didn't even speak with Tifa (With the Exception of their promise) and supposedly he's not allowed to love any other woman. Love at First Sight. I know another ship that the two characters only knew each other for exactly two months doesn't stop people from shipping it. Bleach's IchiRuki.

In that case Aerith is also only in Cloud's mind in the DoC because the same kanji was used in regards to both statements.

Oh, well I have never heard of that sources I know say its 'mind', and sorry I wouldn't take this forums word for it...No offense though.

uhm.. what?

Clouds world in his mind, basically consisted of Tifa and him as children, and her never noticing him.

Have you ever been so depressed you just.. give up? I have and that's where Cloud was. Let me tell you, the people who were the most important to me got cut off first. I didn't want anything to do with them or anybody else. I shut everyone off and lived in my own little world and I wanted to be away from everyone.

Tifa's not a therapist, she did what she could... eventually she got through to him. She was the catalyst for getting Cloud back on track. If anything she and Aerith helped Cloud together, but it wasn't just Aerith.

True. But wasn't he still depressed over Aerith? hadn't he said since FFVII that he wanted to meet her? not get forgiveness.

Except that it was stated that Cloud's promised land was with his family

.... this is fun... I wanna do more

Actually it said where he awakens is his promised land.

I love how you say that Tifa was the one pushing him away and the creators stated Tifa was the catalyst that helped Cloud move forward and find the strength to fight. Wow. Looks like you missed something.

And considering Cloud is back together with Tifa at the end of AC and in DC, you make no sense saying he's off in some "Promised Land" with Aerith. What the heck are you talking about?

Looked like Tifa and Barret were together to me They are in the Same Car...

 

[Frostwave]

Tifa saved him with Aeriths Help.

In Maiden. Y'know the funny thing about Maiden...

The little world revolved around the pain she caused him.

... /facepalm

Tifa is pushing ultimatums on him.

Hmm, I wonder if SE agrees with this statement.. Let's ask them.

She gives encouragement to Cloud, who is unable to shake off his doubts, and creates the catalyst for him to regain the will to fight.

Tifa is a strong woman. She doesn't like what Cloud is doing, but instead of lecturing him about every little thing, she's been waiting for him to realize for himself what his actions are doing. She's remarkably strong, not only emotionally, but physically as well. I think that using words to lead Cloud to his own conclusions, instead of constant lecture, is a defining quality of Tifa's character.

So, sorry. You got that wrong.

Actually it said where he awakens is his promised land.

And where was that, again? Puddle of water or sumthin'?

 

[Splintered]

I Was trying to avoid this thread but that won't be possible for long It never says that cloud still has a crush on her, Do you have a quote saying Tifa was interested as a Teenager? The promise was Etched in his MIND, Not his heart. He wanted to when he was young how does this reflect on the Cloud we know now? Tifa saved him with Aeriths Help.

Cloud's nervous, "please don't tell Tifa" in Crisis Core and Before Crisis is not a hint? Or the way he raged over her stabbing?

And quite honestly, rather than mind and heart, the promise was etched in his soul. It was a poignant part of the essence of who he was as shown by the lifestream memory scene.

Third Cloud: ......a sealed up secret...... wish...... Tender memories......no
one can ever know.........

The memories he has, they don't sound very platonic the way he describes them.

The little world revolved around the pain she caused him. They aren't together Cloud's letting himself Die and Tifa is pushing ultimatums on him.

No, his world stopped moving because he felt an extreme amount of guilt that was amplified when he couldn't help Denzel. It reminded him that he couldn't help Aerith and he ran away. He confirms it in ACC.

And are you seriously faulting Tifa for telling him to stop running away? The ultimatum she "pushed" on him was not just symbolic. It was real. He was scared and he couldn't move forward, even when she knew he could. And that he was the only person that could defeat the three. But because he opted to be scared, Denzel could potentially die, the boy that's practically their son. So yes, it was either wallow in uncertainty, or the family. Because they were in a life or death situation.

Its stated she loves Cloud Seriously move on.


She already forgot about him,

I wasn't aware that people could only love one person. It took her 89 letters and four years before she stopped writing to him, that sounds a lot like love to me. For a girl who forgot about Zack, she wore the ribbon he bought for her, wore pink in his memory, and even asked for a date the exact same way Zack did.

You can't for sure say it was 15 Days. So that really wouldn't affect how Cloud Remembered her, and Aerith could get to know him from the Lifestream, She already knew the real him and was very Interested.

Aerith says it herself, she wants to get to know the real him, signifying that she didn't. I'm not saying she didn't love Cloud, or she wouldn't love Cloud if she knew the real him. She obviously does love him and was interested. But the Cloud then and now was extremely different.

They have their own Promised Land a private place they share where Tifa neither can be or even exists.

wat. You mean that place he imagined for about three seconds, and then snapped back to reality? That's a huge stretch.

He was letting himself die, and if Cloud loved Tifa so much why was it difficult for him to let a "memory" go and be with his Beloved Family?

He didn't do that out of love. He did it because he was weak at the time, because he failed his family. He only succumbed to it because he worked so hard for Denzel, got the same disease, and lost all his spirit. Not because of just Aerith. He felt guilty about that yes, but his conversation with Marlene expands on why he ran away.

And he did let go of his memory and went to be with his beloved family at the end of AC/ACC.

EDIT:

You guys can't seriously debate a fictional love interest without insulting each other.

Come on now :/

 

[Dashell]

Oh, well I have never heard of that sources I know say its 'mind', and sorry I wouldn't take this forums word for it...No offense though.

But... you can take my word for it, can't you?

Clouds world in his mind, basically consisted of Tifa and him as children, and her never noticing him.

Oh I see what you're saying. Well remember that Cloud was the one picking the fights. So if these people Tifa hung out with were hurting him, it was kinda his own fault for picking fights all the time. And really I think Tifa's group just didn't notice him and he never approached them. When he finally did, she responded positively and they got along just fine.

True. But wasn't he still depressed over Aerith? hadn't he said since FFVII that he wanted to meet her? not get forgiveness.

The "meeting her" quote was a mistranslation. It's supposed to be about how Cloud and Tifa can meet all their lost ones someday. Though I guess that does include Aerith. And I think the reason Cloud started feeling guilty was because he had to make that delivery to the Forgotten City and it opened up his wounds again. Thus the depression began.

Actually it said where he awakens is his promised land.

But if his promised land was meant to be with Aerith wasn't he just IN his promised land?

 

[Fairheartstrife]

though this isn't to all of you...

No, no, this I believe is directed at me. **sits up and reads**

I should take the words of C/T Shippers who sit on this exact forums all day and Insult people at a whole other forum?

Can't speak for everyone, but I'm not a shipper. I'm a canon elitist, but not a shipper. I also work all day...so I don't have time to stalk the land of pink and pure. Moving on...

Nay you take screencaps and talk about exactly what they talk about, you are so NOT fine with just liking youR ship that you have to do that? and look now a Clerith comes to debate with you and they get laughed at?

For reference, I'm not laughing at you, but at your horrible comprehension of the source material. 'Tis nothing personal.

I saw some people suffering from delusions here that's how desperate it seemed you needed a real debate. Can you even call it a debate when its just a bunch of Rabid fans insulting/Stalking some Cleriths on their own personal forum?

Uhm...wha...? Seriously, no one here is rabid...with the exception of Vendel, so I fail to see where you get that impression. And believe me, we have waaaaaaay more lurkers/stalkers here than anywhere else.

And now I'm a shipping Nazi?

I don't know, are you? You seem pretty staunch in your Tifa's a bitch, Cloud and Aerith have the spiritsmex special place... That's a bit fanatical... Just sayin'

and because you see a quote you don't like all you can say is that its "not real!" "not real!" "not real!"

No. I said it's not real because it's NOT REAL. It's not anything from the creators, or the movies, game or ANY of the source material in any way shape or form. I'm just a firm believer in FACT and ACCURACY. Feel free to keep using it, I just thought you'd like to know.

Proof please why should I take this Quote you speak of and believe its Canon? So love knows no time, Cloud didn't even speak with Tifa (With the Exception of their promise) and supposedly he's not allowed to love any other woman. Love at First Sight. I know another ship that the two characters only knew each other for exactly two months doesn't stop people from shipping it. Bleach's IchiRuki.

Comparing ships? That's not really gonna help you in the debate. Especially with the mountain of Cloti evidence looming over your head.

Who says Cloud's not allowed--he could love someone else if he wanted: Aerith, Scarlet, Barret, but compilation shows his feelings remain unchanged toward Tifa, and those feelings are love.

And sure it was love at first sight; for Aerith. Cloud was a revisit of Zack. It's not rocket science there...

Oh, well I have never heard of that sources I know say its 'mind', and sorry I wouldn't take this forums word for it...No offense though.

Too bad, offense taken.

Clouds world in his mind, basically consisted of Tifa and him as children, and her never noticing him.

Never noticing is a HUGE difference from ignoring and bullying so you just may want to rethink your stance on that. How many oddball kids in your town/school/life are you aware of?

True. But wasn't he still depressed over Aerith? hadn't he said since FFVII that he wanted to meet her? not get forgiveness.

No. He says "I want to be forgiven." And if you're referring to the end of VII, the English translation is a bit off. Cloud is referring to meeting Aerith--but also the rest of the people they've lost. And never again does he mention this "desire", not ever.

Actually it said where he awakens is his promised land.

Which is surrounded by his family. Holy shit! AMAZING!! You know, you'd think if being with Aerith was his Promised Land...he'd have, y'know STAYED there. He was JUST with her, and yet where he wakes up is his Promised Land...

Comprehension is totally a skill. You should maybe hone it.

Looked like Tifa and Barret were together to me They are in the Same Car...

OMG CANONZ! And Aerith and Zack are in the same whitespace!! And Cloud is totally fire"balling" with Rosso! And Shelke and Nanaki FTW!! And O.O Denzel/Reed!! the SCANDAL.... Oh, Square, what have you done...what have you done...


But seriously, thanks for the giggles. I had a long day at work, this is fun.

 

[Dashell]

Uhm...wha...? Seriously, no one here is rabid...with the exception of Vendel, so I fail to see where you get that impression.

QFT

 

[Makoeyes987]

though this isn't to all of you...

I should take the words of C/T Shippers who sit on this exact forums all day and Insult people at a whole other forum? Nay you take screencaps and talk about exactly what they talk about, you are so NOT fine with just liking youR ship that you have to do that? and look now a Clerith comes to debate with you and they get laughed at? I saw some people suffering from delusions here that's how desperate it seemed you needed a real debate. Can you even call it a debate when its just a bunch of Rabid fans insulting/Stalking some Cleriths on their own personal forum?

No seriously. You're hilarious.

Get off your high horse, please. Especially in regards to defending a forum that's been notorious for its super secret section that disses people, insults them, and ridicules those they feel have the audacity to provide proof that disclaims their non-canon ship. Considering no names and shit were revealed on ANYONE who made those posts, you're pissing in an ocean of piss. If they can't be arsed to come out of their e-hidey hole and debate the points, that's their own fault. When we start dissing people personally and setting up sections where we can find the pictures of people we don't like and photoshop them, then you can complain about us being desperate, needing a life, and being rabid. Stop crying over us not validating and accepting your non-canon ship as fact when it isn't.

And now I'm a shipping Nazi? and because you see a quote you don't like all you can say is that its "not real!" "not real!" "not real!"

What quote have we said isn't real? Pony up some proof.

Proof please why should I take this Quote you speak of and believe its Canon? So love knows no time, Cloud didn't even speak with Tifa (With the Exception of their promise) and supposedly he's not allowed to love any other woman. Love at First Sight. I know another ship that the two characters only knew each other for exactly two months doesn't stop people from shipping it. Bleach's IchiRuki.

Why don't YOU offer the proof as to why it should be doubted, other than your heart bleeds at the fact it says something you don't like?

Read the official timeline of FFVII. FFVII's adventure lasted for about a month and a half. Aerith and Cloud were together at most 3 weeks. And for all that time Cloud wasn't truly himself.

Oh, well I have never heard of that sources I know say its 'mind', and sorry I wouldn't take this forums word for it...No offense though.

You only don't believe it because it says something you don't like. What other valid reason is there? You're transparent as a window.

Looked like Tifa and Barret were together to me They are in the Same Car...

...What?

 

[TheMadHatter]

I'd join this debate, but for three reasons I won't:
1: I don't think I know enough to debate on either side
2: I'm afraid that I'll get tangled up in this drama.
3: Barry White told me to, and I quote
>CloudxTerra<

"Drop it dog and dig what your feelin." ~ Barry White, me friend that knows it all

It'll be interesting to see how this thread goes. Its kinda odd that it went on for 115 pages...I highly doubt there are enough Clerith (whatever you call em) here for everyone to debate with.
Considering its 97% CloudxTifa here....

I don't mind it at all, I'm here to meet people and occasionally put my thoughts in, but it seems unfair that Alice is the only Clerith here...we need more of em so we can see a big ole debate happen! I haven't seen one in a few months, so it'll be fun to watch :>

I can tell that Quexinos (because she can understand BOTH sides and not be biased for over three seconds) is going to be the only fair debater here, considering the fact that she/he(?) can stay calm and collected all the while.
I'm rooting for both sides, but I can't wait to see which side pulls through.

"Keepin it real since 1967" ~
I'll be stalking this thread, watching and waiting for it to finally end. lol Consider me out
:bmonster: Barry White!