So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[KissTheRain]

Mmhmm, just technically they never saw it together, but yes indeed. In the CC preview there is something that Aerith says about it, which for one is beautiful, but also links to that. :3

 

[Isabella]

s for Cloti one of my favorite parts is in the beginning Cloud let Tifa fall of a cliff, but then at the very end he caught her. Talk about perfect planning.

This is an important point that a lot of people miss. Cloud catching Tifa from falling at the end closes the arc of him not catching her as a child, then promising to rescue her. That's a funny way to end the story if the promise doesn't mean much to him.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

I'd randomly like to mention that Cloud and Aerith did not know each other the entire span of the game and she died at the end of disc one. If the game takes place over the two months, then there's no way they knew each other as long as Ichigo and Rukia did.

 

[Max Payne]

I'm not so sure about that. Mr. Nomura did say somewhere that the fortune "you will lose something dear" can be seen as Aerith's death. Wouldn't that mean Caitsith's fortunes aren't wrong? And I know the side games are alternate universes but they are created for a reason, do you agree?

And I don't believe what you said disproves of any of the romantic implications for Cloud and Aerith in any of those games.

Thy Queen has edited her post:
If CloudxAerith could taste like something, I think it would be something like vanilla with cookies and cream and chocolate fudge drizzled over it.

They're smell is like flowers and water, and fresh air. Very sweet and pure. Nothing over the top.

Quote from way back I know.

You have to have the worst signature avatar combination ever on this board, and your font is an ass pain.

I would have considered your argument more seriously if your post didn't make me want to spew.

 

[Makoeyes987]

You got something against WHITE letters Dacon?

I see how it is. Reverse racist mothafucka.

 

[Max Payne]

Yes, I feel the urge to take them outside and beat the shit out of them.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Sounds like a hate crime's a brewin'. Be nice!

 

[Madame Mayor]

I wish when Clerii came to debate it was a bit calmer. They show how emotionally invested and biased they are with how offended they get at anything against their pairing.

Oh, and how they call us shippers. Because if we aren't shippers and we see Cloti as canon, that means we are neutrals with nothing to prove and perhaps that means that when you aren't trying to ship... you see Cloti.

And that would be blasphemy!

Seriously, when I first ventured into an LTD I was being called a Cloti and I thought that just meant that I was in the group that knew Cloud and Tifa were canon. Then someone informed me it meant you were a shipper. After the whole, "wtf is a shipper?", I decided to inform my opponents of how Tserith is the one true canon of FFVII.

 

[Dashell]

I wish when Clerii came to debate it was a bit calmer. They show how emotionally invested and biased they are with how offended they get at anything against their pairing.

Honestly, when if they come here and we pwn them and they wanna run off and cry and call us meanies and photoshop our pictures in their private forum, who gives a shit? I'd really rather we just debate the love triangle and not what goes on at each other's forums. This goes for both sides really, I'm sick of seeing it. Can we please just debate the mother fucking love triangle and not forum ethics?

 

[Makoeyes987]

...I think I came, hearing Quexinos cuss like that. She should do it more often.

 

[Dashell]

Can we fucking debate the mother fucking love fucking triangle fuck fuck?

 

[Madame Mayor]

Honestly,when if they come here and we pwn them and they wanna run off and cry and call us meanies and photoshop our pictures in their private forum, who gives a shit? I'd really rather we just debate the love triangle and not what goes on at each other's forums. This goes for both sides really, I'm sick of seeing it. Can we please just debate the mother fucking love triangle and not forum ethics?

Oh, I don't really care about them running off crying back at their forums. I was just saying that I wish there were Clerii out there who could debate like a human being. Attack the points, not the person. Goes for both sides sometimes but it happens on the internet.

It's just become a growing trend that Clerii who come to debate can't seem to debate without attacking the debaters right off the bat. Give me your points, I'll counter, then post my own, you counter, repeat. Is it really too much to ask? But I guess it is when most of the Clerii who want to debate are very emotionally invested shippers.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Can we fucking debate the mother fucking love fucking triangle fuck fuck?

Spoiler

*cough* Anyways. Yes. That's a good sentiment I totally agree with.

 

[Dashell]

I've seen Clotis do it too honestly (in response to Wolverine). It's like I said, I want to debate, period. That's all I want to do, it's why I view this thread. Yeah I know it goes off topic a lot but... this topic is about a love triangle from a video game, there's no reason to get all upset or start attacking people personally.

So if any Cleriths are reading this, please I would like to debate with you. I will respect your opinion, and I don't even care if you respect mine or not. But please come here and debate, I'd really like to do that, that's all

Oh and I'm glad you're getting such a kick out of this Mako XD
ANDOMG SHE'S HOT!

 

[KissTheRain]

This is an important point that a lot of people miss. Cloud catching Tifa from falling at the end closes the arc of him not catching her as a child, then promising to rescue her. That's a funny way to end the story if the promise doesn't mean much to him.

Yes, I mean the end is about solving most or all conflicts and a cliff hanger (lol pun. XD) in the story was "will Cloud fulfill his promise?" and he did in the greatest way ever as a parallel to his previous failure. Ha, this is more Cloti fanclub stuff isn't it now? :3

 

[Heart-Is-Chained]

I know debating thread and i'm not debating but i'm just pretty much posting my two cents, and that is agreeing with

It's just become a growing trend that Clerii who come to debate can't seem to debate without attacking the debaters right off the bat. Give me your points, I'll counter, then post my own, you counter, repeat. Is it really too much to ask? But I guess it is when most of the Clerii who want to debate are very emotionally invested shippers.

I think the reason why they are so emotionally invested is because they are usually the ones newer to the fandom, and so you have to deal with their immaturities and their ideals on love, not what it really is, and why can't you find mature, calm debators? Because they are the ones that don't give a shit anymore, like myself.

Not that i'm saying it's bad to debate, I just understand why alot of people don't. And it is annoying when you have to deal with someone very emotionaly involved, but the same can be said for CloTi and Zerith fans, I've had to deal with my fair share on the oh so awesome YouTube...the worst place as far as i'm concerned, for it lol.

I think rather than debating, it should be more of a discussion or even better agree to disagree but of course that won't happen lol. And i'm done

 

[Madame Mayor]

I've seen Clotis do it too honestly (in response to Wolverine).

Hence why I said, "Goes for both sides". But I see it a heck of a lot more in the Clerii. And when I see a trend like that I know there's a reason for it.

It's like I said, I want to debate, period. That's all I want to do, it's why I view this thread.

As would I when I cba. But I really can't when a Clerii comes in here with cookie-cutter Clerii points straight from Clerith.com, and then becomes very easily offended and starts to insult the entire forums because the reality is their pairing is not seen as canon by the majority of FFVII fans, shippers or not.

Yeah I know it goes off topic a lot but... this topic is about a love triangle from a video game, there's no reason to get all upset or start attacking people personally.

I concur, which is another reason why I cba to debate with most Clerii nowadays. I debated a lot in the past, a bit too much for my own good. I knew all the quotes by heart, knew counters for every argument they had. But after a while of trying to be civil, and getting, "no ur stoopid" in response, it became tiresome.

I had some really interesting discussions with some Clerii when I first came into the debate. They were more on a literary level than a canon one. That story has a bitter end that I won't get into for off-topicness.

So if any Cleriths are reading this, please I would like to debate with you. I will respect your opinion, and I don't even care if you respect mine or not. But please come here and debate, I'd really like to do that, that's all

I respect opinions (hence why I debated FFVII's LT on a literally level, it was fascinating to see how other people saw a story that I saw a completely different way), but I do wish people would remember what is canon is not something you can have an opinion on. It is or it isn't.

I don't consider knowing Cloti is canon as an opinion for example. Thinking Cloud and Aerith make a better love story is an opinion. Thinking Cloud doesn't love Tifa is an opinion that goes against canon.

(I'm not trying to argue with you, your post is just sparking things for me to say semi in response... if that makes sense)

 

[Isabella]

Thing is, I don't see a lot of people who believe in Clerith who aren't passionate about it. They're Cleriths because they ship it, most of them (yeah, I'm generalizing), not because they're disinterested and just happen to think Cloud visiting a ghost in flower fields is the most logical, reasonable conclusion. It's nice to have a chat with people like Zee once in a while, who don't take every debate point as an attack on their personal fantasy. But usually they're very young and they take it all quite personally.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Not that i'm saying it's bad to debate, I just understand why alot of people don't.

And I don't think that ever person who likes Clerith should need to debate or is obligated. When you go into a private forum and laugh at people on other forums talking about how stupid they are with their debate points... I think those people should come out of their hole and face the people they are making fun of. But if they don't, oh well. Life surprisingly goes on. XP

I think the reason why they are so emotionally invested is because they are usually the ones newer to the fandom

I've seen it for both actually. But you are right, the newer ones get very into it right off the bat while the older ones (in time in the debate, not in age) tend to be a bit more laid back.

I just think, if you truly believed Clerith was canon, and you weren't threatened by the idea that it wasn't, would it be so hard to just go and discuss it with other people?

I mean, if tomorrow it was announced Clerith was canon, well, that's what I'd support. Sure, I'd be a bit confused at first, discuss with people how it's odd they said certain things about the characters and so forth. But what is canon is canon and I'd have no problems telling people they were wrong about Cloti.

Don't see that happening, the canon has been made perfectly clear, but I don't have anything emotionally invested in the love of Cloud and Tifa. It's a sweet story, and I've thought the odd fanart was very nice, but that's as far as that goes.

 

[Dashell]

No you're right, a lot of the points presented were ones we've heard before but they weren't from clerith.com exactly. I've read a few of her essays and while I don't agree with them, they aren't too bad. And the fact that she backs up what she says with evidence and so on... so really I don't think it's bad at all...

and please do NOT come in here and start picking apart her essays, that's not the point

I mean... honestly when I first came into this thread I didn't know what it was about... I mean... I thought it was people just discussion how awesome Clerith and Cloti were and who was cuter and things like that. I had no CLUE people thought Clerith was canon. So basically my reaction when reading an LTD thread for the first time was exactly like this of the Nostalgia Critic in this fan made video:

I apologize for the cliche but that's EXACTLY what I did. (Not in response to Cleriths BTW but in response to the whole damn thing)

I concur, which is another reason why I cba to debate with most Clerii nowadays. I debated a lot in the past, a bit too much for my own good. I knew all the quotes by heart, knew counters for every argument they had. But after a while of trying to be civil, and getting, "no ur stoopid" in response, it became tiresome.

and why give a shit? If they do that, they're the ones who look bad, not you. Let them call you stupid or do whatever they want. It doesn't mean you HAVE to retaliate or get upset. I'd find it amusing myself

It's nice to have a chat with people like Zee once in a while, who don't take every debate point as an attack on their personal fantasy. But usually they're very young and they take it all quite personally.

Zee is awesome. I have seen generalizing a lot though, and ... well it hasn't happened lately but I think if it does, it needs to stop.


Bottom line:
There's no reason to take any of this personally. It's just a game. No one hates you. No one wants to hurt you. It's just internets. Have fun with it. That's all.

And I don't think that ever person who likes Clerith should need to debate or is obligated. When you go into a private forum and laugh at people on other forums talking about how stupid they are with their debate points... I think those people should come out of their hole and face the people they are making fun of.

See this is what I'm talking about! Who gives a shit if they do this? Really? Who? You? You give a shit? Why? Why let it bother you? You're just as bad as they are if you let it get to you. Let them do what they want. Seriously, if someone wants to photoshop my picture because I think Cloti is canon, you be my guest. You go right ahead and do that.

WHY I OUTTA

but seriously, just leave their forums alone. What happens at X stays at X. That's one of the rules here. Let them do what they want there. It's only going to scare them away more if we focus so much on what they do.

 

[Heart-Is-Chained]

I just think, if you truly believed Clerith was canon, and you weren't threatened by the idea that it wasn't, would it be so hard to just go and discuss it with other people?

But the thing with that is, that if you were to go in to "discuss" your thoughts on Clerith, someone will always jump at them, it always happens, I mean lol some people are good debators or friendly (?) being a better word, and then it is fun to discuss it, but there will always be the few people that will debate, and the Clerith fans aren't going to change their minds lol. I mean I prefer Cloud x Aerith, but I really like Cloud x Tifa too, but I pretty much like Cloud with most people so my oppinion shouldn't matter. off tangent but the point is that, even if they weren't threatened that clerith wouldn't be canon or something still doesn't mean they have to debate, and it's always, sadly going to happen.

I mean, if tomorrow it was announced Clerith was canon, well, that's what I'd support. Sure, I'd be a bit confused at first, discuss with people how it's odd they said certain things about the characters and so forth. But what is canon is canon and I'd have no problems telling people they were wrong about Cloti.

Don't see that happening, the canon has been made perfectly clear, but I don't have anything emotionally invested in the love of Cloud and Tifa. It's a sweet story, and I've thought the odd fanart was very nice, but that's as far as that goes.

But you'd still prefer Cloud x Tifa right? lol You aren't going to suddenly prefer Cloud and Aerith just because it was "canon".

I personally think maybe the biggest issue isn't what is canon or not, but that some people just can't support a pairing or like a pairing without it having to be canon sometimes. And so they will say it is? Does that make sense at all? lol

Better put...why can't people like a pairing and not have to worry about it having to be debated just because the other couple is canon, why must their oppinions be bashed etc just because they prefer something from others. That's all lol.

Made no sense sorry lol

Edit: sorry if anyone replies to this and I don't respond...Have to go lol stupid work

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

If someone touches you inappropriately, you don't have to support Cloti or Clerith. Just tell them "NO" and get outta there!

 

[Dashell]

If someone touches you inappropriately, you don't have to support Cloti or Clerith. Just tell them "NO" and get outta there!

You know the ONE time I make an honest post I want people to pay attention to

nah that was funny, I loled

 

[Madame Mayor]

and why give a shit? If they do that, they're the ones who look bad, not you. Let them call you stupid or do whatever they want. It doesn't mean you HAVE to retaliate or get upset. I'd find it amusing myself

I don't retaliate though, that's the point. I walk away if it gets like that, but at the end of the day, that means it wasn't a very fun debate.

No you're right, a lot of the points presented were ones we've heard before but they weren't from clerith.com exactly.

Oh, they are, you just need to know where to look. XP If more Clerii had their own unique ideas, rather than being sent out by their leaders to debate at other forums for them, they wouldn't sound all the same.

I've read a few of her essays and while I don't agree with them, they aren't too bad.

Well, first they aren't all written by one "her". Second, if you don't care at all about grammar, sentence structure, and well written arguments than, ya, they aren't bad.

And the fact that she backs up what she says with evidence and so on... so really I don't think it's bad at all...

Evidence? Is that what they are calling making stuff up nowadays?

Off-topic: I do kind of love how they claim TLS is a terrible place full of Cloti, but then use translations from the site in their "essays".

and please do NOT come in here and start picking apart her essays, that's not the point

Nah, no need. I know few people who can even get through one without their eyes bleeding a little.

There's no reason to take any of this personally. It's just a game. No one hates you. No one wants to hurt you. It's just internets. Have fun with it. That's all.

Now if only the Clerii could understand some of that we'd have some interesting debates...

 

[Dashell]

Okay I'm not gonna argue with you or anything, but I am going to have to respectfully say

to most of what you just said.