So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[KissTheRain]

There's no reason to take any of this personally. It's just a game. No one hates you. No one wants to hurt you. It's just internets. Have fun with it. That's all.

I know, but the fucked up part is i've seen fans of opposing sides telling the other team to drop dead and want them to die a sick death and shit like that. Why do people do that though? It's a video game. It's not real. You can like what you want, what's wrong with that. I mean some take it like a religion and the other side should go straight to hell because you don't have the same "belief" on a fantasy couple.

Personally I like Clerith, Cloti, and Zerith they are all different so there is something to like about each imo, but it would it's nice to have discussions with people who only like one side so I know why they don't like the others. Fun stuff like that, where people can be *gasp* oh gawds no, open minded. But, in FFVII it's hard to get security on your side when the opposing one gets facts too so you can't ever say they are right or they will change your opinion and your life will be over. O:

 

[Madame Mayor]

But the thing with that is, that if you were to go in to "discuss" your thoughts on Clerith, someone will always jump at them, it always happens, I mean lol some people are good debators or friendly (?) being a better word, and then it is fun to discuss it, but there will always be the few people that will debate, and the Clerith fans aren't going to change their minds lol.

I don't debate Clerii to change their minds. I debate them for the lurkers, so those confused and without an idea of what the canon is can base it on the debate they see, the facts presented.

I mean I prefer Cloud x Aerith, but I really like Cloud x Tifa too, but I pretty much like Cloud with most people so my oppinion shouldn't matter.

I'm the same but for Aerith. That girl is just so gosh darn pairable. XP

off tangent but the point is that, even if they weren't threatened that clerith wouldn't be canon or something still doesn't mean they have to debate, and it's always, sadly going to happen.

No, don't have to, just don't go on about how the other side is so delusional but be too afraid to confront them. Get the distinction I'm making? I don't care if I never debate a Clerith again. But I wish, for their own sakes because this attitude they have must affect them in other ways, that they'd stand up for themselves and be able to make logical conclusions when given the facts.

But you'd still prefer Cloud x Tifa right? lol You aren't going to suddenly prefer Cloud and Aerith just because it was "canon".

If I "prefer" one couple over the other it's Clerith. XP As I said I'd be a bit confused as to why they've said that Cloud and Tifa are in a romantic relationship, put them in relationship situations... but what's canon is canon.

I personally think maybe the biggest issue isn't what is canon or not, but that some people just can't support a pairing or like a pairing without it having to be canon sometimes. And so they will say it is? Does that make sense at all? lol

Perfect sense and I completely agree. I wish it wasn't like that though. I mean, do any of you think I'm less cool for thinking Tserith is the ultimate OTP? I know it ain't canon. Do I care?

Better put...why can't people like a pairing and not have to worry about it having to be debated just because the other couple is canon, why must their oppinions be bashed etc just because they prefer something from others. That's all lol.

Liking a pairing, and claiming it's canon is two different things. There is no problem with liking non-canon pairings and anyone who says otherwise is having a serious with me. XP If you like Cloud and Aerith, and want to discuss their relationship, then so be it.

But if it needs to be canon for you to like it, and you come into a debate thread swinging your fists at the entire forums, then I see a problem...

 

[Tennyo]

But the thing with that is, that if you were to go in to "discuss" your thoughts on Clerith, someone will always jump at them, it always happens, I mean lol some people are good debators or friendly (?) being a better word, and then it is fun to discuss it, but there will always be the few people that will debate, and the Clerith fans aren't going to change their minds lol. I mean I prefer Cloud x Aerith, but I really like Cloud x Tifa too, but I pretty much like Cloud with most people so my oppinion shouldn't matter. off tangent but the point is that, even if they weren't threatened that clerith wouldn't be canon or something still doesn't mean they have to debate, and it's always, sadly going to happen.

But you'd still prefer Cloud x Tifa right? lol You aren't going to suddenly prefer Cloud and Aerith just because it was "canon".

I personally think maybe the biggest issue isn't what is canon or not, but that some people just can't support a pairing or like a pairing without it having to be canon sometimes. And so they will say it is? Does that make sense at all? lol

Better put...why can't people like a pairing and not have to worry about it having to be debated just because the other couple is canon, why must their oppinions be bashed etc just because they prefer something from others. That's all lol.

Made no sense sorry lol

Edit: sorry if anyone replies to this and I don't respond...Have to go lol stupid work

The point here though is not what pairing people should like best, it's what pairing is canon. If you prefer Clerith then you prefer them. Nobody cares, or at least nobody worth a grain of salt is going to care. But so often I've seen little shippers running around like chickens with their heads cut off, spouting nonsense that goes against some of the biggest aspects of FFVII's plot. It's just irritating.

And believe me we don't only correct Clerith's. I've seen people who ship Cloti, or even other ships that involve Cloud, spout off utter crap as if it were gospel truth. I mean it's fun to pretend but don't deny the canon. That's crossing the fine line between fanfiction and fandom raep.

I come across the same thing with people who don't even care about the LTD. On YouTube a long time ago I came across a vid of the DoC ending. Someone asked why certain people hated Shelke and one girl replied, "Because Vincent is supposed to be with Yuffie!" No, Vincent is not. Neither is he supposed to be with Shelke for that matter. Stop making things up and spreading it around as truth.

At least that's my take on it.

If you like Clerith then you like Clerith. No one says you can't. No one says Harry/Hermione shippers have to stop liking them, and no one has ever been able to stop the Tidus/Rikku shippers from their own little ship. Hell there are so many fandom ships out there that I doubt it's possible to keep track of them all. Just don't make things up and tell people that it's the truth.

 

[Madame Mayor]

See this is what I'm talking about! Who gives a shit if they do this? Really? Who? You? You give a shit? Why? Why let it bother you?

Bother isn't the right word. I don't care if they make fun of me or anyone else there (actually the times someone's sent me a post from there about a CXT supporter it's made me lulz). I just think it's sad is all. I mean, back during the Alliance they couldn't even keep it up because of how much they couldn't stand those of us who thought differently.

Plus, Ryu and I and others have been calling them out of this for quite a long while now, and I think as long as they keep doing it they deserve to be called out on.

 

[Dashell]

Someone asked why certain people hated Shelke and one girl replied, "Because Vincent is supposed to be with Yuffie!" No, Vincent is not. Neither is he supposed to be with Shelke for that matter. Stop making things up and spreading it around as truth.

LOL WHAT? no no no, Yuffie goes with me, dammit!

But really yeah liking Clerith and trying to prove it canon are two different things. No one is saying you can't like Clerith but... if you're going to be in this thread you're going to have to be ready for a debate

I mean, back during the Alliance they couldn't even keep it up because of how much they couldn't stand those of us who thought differently.

Tell me more... about this alliance as I've only heard their side of it.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Tell me more... about this alliance as I've only heard their side of it.

It's a really long complicated story if you want all the details... but it would be getting off-topic in this thread so here's the short form:
There was an alliance put in place where we shunned anyone who wasn't nice to either side. You weren't allowed to come into the Cloti guild calling Clerii stupid, for example. Some Clerii did some underhanded things because of their obsession with their pairing. The alliance was broken and ended. (Though I believe Celes kept her signs up for the spirit of the thing, since we still followed the rules).

 

[Dashell]

Yeah they said the exact opposite XD

I just.. guess I wanted to know exactly what happened so I know what to avoid when I try it

 

[KissTheRain]

I'm the same but for Aerith. That girl is just so gosh darn pairable. XP

Agreed, she probably had my most pairings.

I mean, do any of you think I'm less cool for thinking Tserith is the ultimate OTP? I know it ain't canon. Do I care?

Of course not, none of my OTP's are canon and some aren't even from the same story! XD I just think how I portray their relationship is much better than the intended couple in the game. :3

Liking a pairing, and claiming it's canon is two different things.

In the LTD no it's not, usually. I've met few people who prefer Clerith over Cloti or vise versa but think the other side is canon, I suppose except you Wolverine. Idk, I suppose for it if it is canon it means that they love each other and if you like a couple you think that they love eachother and for it to be proven wrong, well I guess it sucks. /:

If Clerith or Cloti was proven (which one sorta might have been now.) I would like both because I do now when we don't know for sure 100% Cloud loves either. Love or not their interactions are still sweet. <3

 

[Dashell]

If Clerith or Cloti was proven (which one sorta might have been now. O

You think?

 

[Tennyo]

I think Quistis was better for Squall than Rinoa.

Oops that's not canon.

Also I agree with Balthea (Wolverine) that Tseng/Aerith is actually rather hot and I would greatly enjoy seeing it bloom into something more.

But oops that's not canon, either.

Also, Clack shippers are hardcore, but they carry no allusions about their pairing being canon. It's just all in good fun.

I mean really if you can't handle having there be something in the story canon that you don't like then maybe you need to leave the fandom and go out into the real world.

I hate the fact that the FFVII world is now suddenly called Gaia. I wish that it was just Planet like we all used to think. Oh well time to get over it.

 

[Ryushikaze]

So you don't like Disney? XD

Not all disney pairing are 'zomfg fairytale'
I cite Alladin and Jasmine, for one.

I have a tid bit of anti Cloti. When the quote comes up:

"Although there's a lot to Tifa's character, she's actually very much like any other woman who's been left behind by a man.

Many claim that Tifa and Cloud must have been together before he left and they had break up sex but the problem is...Cloud is not a man. They must have been referring to Barret when he left 7th Heaven because his level of masculinity equals "man" why Cloud...I don't even know what I can call him. And if you have any questions just compare a picture of him to Aerith and you will learn it is far to similar. And another piece of evidence would be Cid even stated himself in hard print that Tifa is the one that wears the pants or meaning she is the man, making Cloud not.

Hence why she's like a woman left by a man, when she's actually been left by Cloud, a woman.

So this all proves the source of Tifa's pain comes from Barret leaving her.

No, it was from Aerith leaving her. The true man of FF7. Why do you think Aerith knew all the drag queens in wall market?

KtR, you now have my undying love.

Yeah we had a discussion about that quote a few weeks ago. First off, there are official quotes from the movie in the article and they're all in quotation marks. That one is not. We don't really know where it came from just that it's not in the movie, thus it really shouldn't be regarded as anything. Unless you can somehow prove it was going to be in the movie or something else.

Further, it is randomly half in english. It is not a line from the movie.
And if the fucking SCRIPT does not count, a goddamn random magazine that they creators aren't directly involved in should not.

I'm not sure if I should put more of my LTD logic down, you guys might not agree and then i'll have to go emo. *cuts* W/e..

Cloti is a parallel to Tuna. And while i'm here Squinoa too. Why? They all had promises.

Cloud & Tifa's- Do I need to say it?
Tidus & Yuna's- Just whistle and I'll come running, I promise.
Squall & Rinoa's- If you come here you'll find me, I promise.

Or something like that for all of them. Honestly, this is my good stuff.

But it fails to analogize them to Cecil and Rosa, and is thus incomplete.

I wish when Clerii came to debate it was a bit calmer. They show how emotionally invested and biased they are with how offended they get at anything against their pairing.

I have noticed this as well. Even when you do not come out swinging, they act as if you have.

Oh, and how they call us shippers. Because if we aren't shippers and we see Cloti as canon, that means we are neutrals with nothing to prove and perhaps that means that when you aren't trying to ship... you see Cloti.

But if you see C/T, you HAVE to be a shipper, because projection.

Seriously, when I first ventured into an LTD I was being called a Cloti and I thought that just meant that I was in the group that knew Cloud and Tifa were canon. Then someone informed me it meant you were a shipper. After the whole, "wtf is a shipper?", I decided to inform my opponents of how Tserith is the one true canon of FFVII.

When I first got into the LTD, it was far, far more loud, shouty, and vehement than it is now, and I quite enjoyed it, since I was fresh off the good old fashioned Vs debates. And if you think these pairing debates got heated, please to be reading stardestroyer.net's hate mail page.

Honestly, when if they come here and we pwn them and they wanna run off and cry and call us meanies and photoshop our pictures in their private forum, who gives a shit? I'd really rather we just debate the love triangle and not what goes on at each other's forums. This goes for both sides really, I'm sick of seeing it. Can we please just debate the mother fucking love triangle and not forum ethics?

Generally, I would prefer this, but on the other hand, I'd also like the hypocrisy of it all exposed. Especially with those who get holier than thou.
I admit I can get quite, quite fucking mean. I admit that I LIKE being mean.
I can go on tirades, I can hang people out to dry. But I do not need to decide ahead of time what my position is, I don't need nor do I ever tell people 'the position', I don't make up shit and pretend it's offcial, ESPECIALLY when it's blatantly and INSTANTLY confirmable as a goddamn lie.
And no, I won't tell you who that refers to, but I do say that that person's techniques revulse me as a rational and conscientious debater.

 

[Dashell]

I admit I can get quite, quite fucking mean. I admit that I LIKE being mean.

...

please... please tell me more

 

[Frostwave]

No, it was from Aerith leaving her. The true man of FF7. Why do you think Aerith knew all the drag queens in wall market?

O my god lol!

 

[Splintered]

Eh, I think delusions of fandom persecution is all bullshit whining, useless preaching to their own choir as if it gives them extra meaning to continue the fight. It's on both CloudTifa and CloudAerith side. Asshole-ism isn't exclusive to either side, it never has been after all these years. (Not going to lie though, some assholism is a lot more amusing than others).

I'm with Quex, I'd rather not suffer pages of big lip gossip about "those others" and just debate. I'd rather not waste the energy it takes to press down on a keyboard against someone who feels superior by surrounding themselves with people who only agree with them while insulting others from afar.

I honestly, though, think it comes with the territory. Pairing wars are like this everywhere. I actually stopped debating pairings my fandom before this because of their tedious politics. I only came back because I finished playing Crisis Core and found a new love with Zack/Aerith.

It's a really long complicated story if you want all the details... but it would be getting off-topic in this thread so here's the short form:
There was an alliance put in place where we shunned anyone who wasn't nice to either side. You weren't allowed to come into the Cloti guild calling Clerii stupid, for example. Some Clerii did some underhanded things because of their obsession with their pairing. The alliance was broken and ended. (Though I believe Celes kept her signs up for the spirit of the thing, since we still followed the rules).

I tried something like this once, although not conciously. Me and another fan named Rhi-somethingorother sort of had this, "LOL PAIRINGS" campaign and started an Aerith-Tifa fans together or whatever warm hearted asshatery. It was going pretty well too, although it was mainly populated by Cloudtifa and yaoi fans. Not a lot of CloudAerith fans bothered.

To their credit, it was actually two CloudTifa fans that sort of shat on it. They joined, stirred up trouble, and drove the CloudAerith fans absolutely batshit crazy. By that time I was already getting annoyed by the FFVII fandom and left ACF.

You think?

Hahaha, never D<

 

[Ryushikaze]

...

please... please tell me more

You may ask Bella, Null, Rinoa, Anna, or anyone who ever saw me kicking ass and taking names on Gamefaqs.
There's a REASON I lament the loss of my chewtoys.

In fact, you have seen be bring a broadside to bear, but never a Base Delta Zero.

O my god lol!

Hey, makes more sense than some things I've seen people seriously suggest.
'Cetra Cloud with lifestream family' among others.
'Cold Fusion freezes things'
'Zero could be Grievous in a lightsaber fight'

Dragon's Addendum: White Queen, may I ask the relation you have to existing members AliceKinglsey and MadHatter? I must ask because of the shared IP betwixt the three of you.

 

[Dashell]

You may ask Bella, Null, Rinoa, Anna, or anyone who ever saw me kicking ass and taking names on Gamefaqs.
There's a REASON I lament the loss of my chewtoys.'

eeeeeeeee

okay... uh... back on topic... see I think it's important to note that Cloud is uhm... well... you know living with Tifa and he... does... the... and he... ..

god fuck it, brb.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

First of all, I'm sorry, I have to ask: Are you of the C/A side, or really a Cloti pulling our leg here?

Do you have a quote saying Tifa was interested as a Teenager?

Off the top of my head...
Tifa thought he was cute
She looked in papers for him
She bugged Zack about him
She dressed up for Cloud cause she wanted to impress him, like any girl would for the guy she likes blah blah blah
I didn't know that's what people do when they're not interested.

The promise was Etched in his MIND, Not his heart

And...?
What is your point here exactly?
The promise between him and Tifa was important enough for him to always carry in his mind/heart/spleen well into adulthood.
Lemme guess: promises etched in one's mind are promises you generally don't care about, right?
Cloud's heart cries out to Tifa in the game and vice versa. Not the flowergirl, despite her awesome Lifesteamy powers.

Its stated she loves Cloud Seriously move on.

LMAO!
It's also stated that she acts the way she does around Cloud because of Zack (in those words).Cereally, move on.

You can't for sure say it was 15 Days

Yes, we can. Ultimania.

She already knew the real him and was very Interested

Except not really, because Aeris was unable to contact Cloud when he was lost and his heart cried out to Tifa. He didn't hear her, he heard Tifa.
She only later got to be a spectator to the Cloud & Tifa Show in the Lifestream. That means the Cloud she was interested in wasn't the Cloud she thought she knew. That makes her feelings suspect.

They have their own Promised Land a private place they share

Please point on the map so the rest of us can see this place too.
What are you talking about? Reading too much fanfic?

He was letting himself die

...of an incurable disease.
Cloud isn't letting himself die willingly. He has accepted his death as a certainty since there is no cure.
He also thinks he's a failure and has failed everyone by dying and dying is all he deserves. Cloud is weak, what can ya do?
What does that have to do with him not loving his family?
He runs FROM happiness (Tifa et al.) the staff tell us.
That means he's not running into Aeris' outstretched arms to find happiness and peace. It means he runs from point A (family & happiness) to point B (solitude & misery).

why was it difficult for him to let a "memory" go

You do know she's referrign to his failures, right? And that it's not exclusive to Aeris?
And that is really just closely associated with that dude -- what's his face? Oh right, Sephiroth.

and because you see a quote you don't like all you can say is that its "not real!" "not real!" "not real!"

Is this in regards to your signature? Because then they'd be right. It's magazine speculation

Actually it said where he awakens is his promised land.

Yes. Surrounded by his family. That's where his family is. That's where he wakes up. They make a point to mention that.
Why doesn't anyone quote the whole damn thing? You people need to stop pulling shit out of context. It's gettign tiring.

But wasn't he still depressed over Aerith?

Why is everyone forgettign Zack and shit? He visits Zack's grave just as much. Lives his life for him. Calls himself his living legacy, blah blah blah.
Didn't know being upset over deaths you were responsible for was a sign of romantic love, or that it's something that's forgotten as soon as you get yourself a girl/boyfriend.
Cloud's always been ruled by his past. He just happens to fall back into bad habits once he is hit by a fatal illness he knows he can't recover from. That's kiiiind of a big deal. Just kind of.

@ alliance:
Pfft. Lotsa people tried similar things across the intrawebz.
I don't get it. It's never been about hating on the shippers, just separating fact from fiction.
Some people are just too attached to their fiction, but nobody cares about them. Sometimes there's an answer and if people don't like it they gotta suck it up.

 

[Isabella]

lol, Ninja OWD swoops in, stomps and leaves, as usual.

Dragon's Addendum: White Queen, may I ask the relation you have to existing members AliceKinglsey and MadHatter? I must ask because of the shared IP betwixt the three of you.

Maybe Clerith shipping runs in families?

You may ask Bella, Null, Rinoa, Anna, or anyone who ever saw me kicking ass and taking names on Gamefaqs.
There's a REASON I lament the loss of my chewtoys.

The good old days. We'll never have the quality of crazy here that we had there. Lifestream family, anyone?

 

[Madame Mayor]

You may ask Bella, Null, Rinoa, Anna, or anyone who ever saw me kicking ass and taking names on Gamefaqs.

We had some good times on FFF when the Clerii mod wasn't butting in. XP

Generally, I would prefer this, but on the other hand, I'd also like the hypocrisy of it all exposed. Especially with those who get holier than thou.

Oh Ryu, you always say it so much better than me. QFT.

I tried something like this once, although not conciously. Me and another fan named Rhi-somethingorother sort of had this, "LOL PAIRINGS" campaign and started an Aerith-Tifa fans together or whatever warm hearted asshatery. It was going pretty well too, although it was mainly populated by Cloudtifa and yaoi fans. Not a lot of CloudAerith fans bothered.

It was really less about us getting together and holding hands and more about stopping the haters, for lack of a better term. It was about warning or banning people who would attack the shippers rather than the arguments.

At least if nothing else I still feel that way, that people who would say that someone's stupid for liking Clerith need a good . I have quite a few Clerith friends, some who even believe it's canon, but they don't go really far into that and I don't debate them.

 

[Splintered]

Dragon's Addendum: White Queen, may I ask the relation you have to existing members AliceKinglsey and MadHatter? I must ask because of the shared IP betwixt the three of you.

I thought MadHatter and AliceKinglsey were siblings.

Maybe Clerith shipping runs in families?

Pfft. I have two brothers. One is a hardcore Clerith and another who is a ZackAerith that hates CloudTifa. I managed to dodge the CloudAerith genes.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

...well, Ninja OWD should leave because work starts bright and early tomorrow, but the three large steaming black coffees were too much of a temptation to resist

Dragon's Addendum: White Queen, may I ask the relation you have to existing members AliceKinglsey and MadHatter? I must ask because of the shared IP betwixt the three of you.

On the plus side, we at least know where the extra votes for C/A are coming from

 

[Ryushikaze]

Maybe Clerith shipping runs in families?

I would not be surprised.

The good old days. We'll never have the quality of crazy here that we had there. Lifestream family, anyone?

I still have an archive of that thread, just to chuckle over that bit of crazy. Same as I saved the 'cold fusion freezes' versus thread.

We had some good times on FFF when the Clerii mod wasn't butting in. XP

It seemed she needed to butt in more and more often as time went on. Until entire threads got locked archived and partly deleted and I got blamed for it despite only commenting on the poor handling of an incident and how their censorship came across to other people.

Oh Ryu, you always say it so much better than me. QFT.

Thankee.

At least if nothing else I still feel that way, that people who would say that someone's stupid for liking Clerith need a good . I have quite a few Clerith friends, some who even believe it's canon, but they don't go really far into that and I don't debate them.

Agreed. Attack the debate not the debater, but on the other hand, don't be afraid to call out a debater on their bullshit or hypocrisy.

I thought MadHatter and AliceKinglsey were siblings.

I am aware. I am inquiring as to TWQ's relation to the both of them.

 

[Reith123]

BUSTED? also thanks for making me read through each post through the 8 pages! <.<

anyway we all get it tht its cloud and tifa and thts how its always been and shall be, but something bugs me...after tifa impregnated cloud..and the shower took place..she baked cookies and cloud angrily threw them like fast balls at the kids...not a good parent in my eyes but whatever..

 

[Dashell]

Well it would appear to me that someone is busted

Yeah another thing guys, don't make dupe accounts... especially if you don't know how to use a proxy

anyway we all get it tht its cloud and tifa and thts how its always been and shall be, but something bugs me...after tifa impregnated cloud..and the shower took place..she baked cookies and cloud angrily threw them like fast balls at the kids...not a good parent in my eyes but whatever..

 

[Splintered]

Attack the debate not the debater, but on the other hand, don't be afraid to call out a debater on their bullshit or hypocrisy.