So, what do you think the LTD conclusion is? (Round 2)

[Dashell]

The 'Cloud must die' Club from Pre-AC, anyone?

Hey hey hey, that club is the bomb. Any club that allows bad stuff to happen to Cloud can't be all bad.

...
Also... what I want to know is, the "koibito" in the Reunion Files can't possibly be Cloud because his name isn't on the page... so how can it be Johnny who isn't even in the movie? XD

 

[Makoeyes987]

There it is!

That pesky thing called LOGIC again.

You know, you should save these comments for your pink friends. Why are you preaching to the choir?

 

[Dashell]

...

I don't know, why do I do a lot of things?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Btw, nice comment on the frontpage

It appeared in the wrong spot because after so many replies, Wordpress' comment system loses track of where to inline each comment and it just starts getting shoveled to the bottom.

 

[Dashell]

... *all ready forgot what she said and goes to look*...

Oh yeah.. you mean about Nojima's statement?
Well thanks... at least what I wrote makes sense to me

 

[Makoeyes987]

Your reply to Ashley regarding the Nojima statement, yes.

And I didn't really "jump the gun" regarding what Ashley said until this comment was posted:

The fact that everything still IS interpretational. I’ve seen arguements that can work for both sides very well. Not to mention, words can be turned around on themselves very easily as someone who has been in a lot of debates should know very well. (Not necessarily directed at you, just btw)
You can’t tell me that what the fan up there posted is 100% true because 1.) He’s not part of the FFVII staff, now is he? 2.) He’s had a 12 year-living opinion on the pairing already, how can you honestly tell me that his head/brain/opinon hasn’t caused him to read Nomura/Nojima/etc’s words so that it sounds perfectly Cloti no matter how he looks at it? The brain is a powerful thing.

Which is not only an utter fabrication and misrepresentation of the plot, but was an attack on the merit and analysis of the author. Sorry, but baseless attacks tend to invoke responses that don't assume good faith anymore. And even then my reply wasn't even that bad.

Afterwards however, well...you know.

The same shit arguments are still shit now, and it gets old hearing the same things parroted after they've been debunked time and time again.

 

[Dashell]

And I didn't really "jump the gun" regarding what Ashley said until this comment was posted:

Yeah I guess that was kinda mean of her to say that. At least she brought the comments here and didn't just talk about it at CxA. Also I figured you were still pissed at what they were saying over there and such.

lol, you really should just go over there. I mean... as long as you don't argue Cloti and just stand up for your friend, that's not against the rules

Of course you don't have to, but I think it'd settle things faster than just talking here.

 

[Death Sin]

I don't consider Maiden canon, but almost every Clerith does for the fact that most of them seem to think Maiden is Anti Cloti and Zerith, and pro Clerith. But I really don't see that all. I do think Aerith acted OOC to Zack, but aside from that it's more Cloti than anything in my eyes. I think it also shows Aerith's confusion, and how much she's matured... she realizes what she has to do as a Cetra.

Yeah, its definitely the Zack/Aerith interactions that I think were a bit off... Especially with Crisis Core and AC/ACC in mind. But I think that, overall, it portraits Aerith well and dwelves on quite a few important aspects like her Cetra heritage, her confusion and her role at the end of FF7. Of course there are things that are also inconsistant, namely how some events were portrayed in the novel, hence why, to be fair, we should take it with a grain of salt. I also don't consider Maiden to be canon *but* I do think it offers an interesting insight on Aerith's persona and how much she matures after the events of disk 1.

And I never saw Maiden as pro-Cloud/Aerith, to be honest. I mean Aerith entrusthing Cloud to Tifa's care and giving them her silent blessing pretty much said it all. If one of the girls admits "defeat" and acknowleges Cloud and Tifa, then who am I to disagree? XD <j/k>

Also... what I want to know is, the "koibito" in the Reunion Files can't possibly be Cloud because his name isn't on the page... so how can it be Johnny who isn't even in the movie? XD

Also... what I want to know is, the "koibito" in the Reunion Files can't possibly be Cloud because his name isn't on the page... so how can it be Johnny who isn't even in the movie? XD

Well, let's be logical here... Who else but Cloud could she be a "koibito" to? Considering Tifa and Cloud's feelings (yes, Cloud's feelings, since they are shown in the Lifestream event in disk 2) that's pretty much the logical deduction there. If it was someone (like good ol' Johnny-who's-barely-mentioned-at-all) I believe it would have been stated and properly developped already (even if only in the novels). Since we already know how Tifa feels about Cloud and how the *real* Cloud feels about Tifa, I think that's pretty much a given.

Personally, I view Cloud and Tifa as the official pairing of FF7 not because of personal preference (since I do like both Tifa and Aerith equally) but because that's the logical conclusion to what the narrative of not only FF7 but the entire Compilation tells us.

That's the way I see it, at least

 

[Tennyo]

The same shit arguments are still shit now, and it gets old hearing the same things parroted after they've been debunked time and time again.

I would like to have a philosophical discussion on the word, "debunked." When I read that one thread on CxA I saw that a lot, talking about how they've all already debunked much of what was in that article.

But...where did this debunking happen? What were their arguments, exactly?

Not trying to be funny anything. I genuinely want to know.

 

[Splintered]

Holy shit, the ltd essay comments.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

I know, I looked and was like: "WTF shitstorm did I miss?!" And then realized it was just a Clerith denouncing the site's neutrality and insisting on "interpretation" and blah, blah, blah....oh, and Mako laying some smack down.

So, same ole same ole.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I would like to have a philosophical discussion on the word, "debunked." When I read that one thread on CxA I saw that a lot, talking about how they've all already debunked much of what was in that article.

I love philosophical discussions! Here's something you should think about:

If ExDeath falls over in the Void...does he make a sound?

But...where did this debunking happen? What were their arguments, exactly?

Not trying to be funny anything. I genuinely want to know.

That's a good question. They probably think their devotion.com/clerith.com debunks all those "Cloti" lies, and thus their pairing is solid and canon. Someone should enlighten them as to what "debunked" really means and what it takes to debunk something.

SoS's essay debunks a lot of the logical fallacies and misinterpretations of the official quotes on who Cloud loves. That's..debunking. Not grasping straws and using subjective evidence to prove your pairing.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Hey hey hey, that club is the bomb. Any club that allows bad stuff to happen to Cloud can't be all bad.

...
Also... what I want to know is, the "koibito" in the Reunion Files can't possibly be Cloud because his name isn't on the page... so how can it be Johnny who isn't even in the movie? XD

And on a related matter, If it can't be Cloud in the RF Quote because he's not named, how can woman and man from COLW and COLB be Aerith and Sephiroth, since they're neve never named, either?

 

[Death Sin]

And on a related matter, If it can't be Cloud in the RF Quote because he's not named, how can woman and man from COLW and COLB be Aerith and Sephiroth, since they're neve never named, either?

What, are you implying that's not really Ifalna in COLW? Noooooo!! My hopes and dreams have been shattered ;_;

<j/k, btw >

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah I guess that was kinda mean of her to say that. At least she brought the comments here and didn't just talk about it at CxA. Also I figured you were still pissed at what they were saying over there and such.

Squall_of_SeeD told me how utterly hilarious and ridiculous it was for him to be attacked by being up front and honest from the get go. You know..doing the thing any good writer/journalist/etc does before going on about what they're discussing in an article. The guy majored in communication studies and journalism, for Christ's sake. I find it just so hilariously insulting and stupid that because he has *gasp* an OPINION on what he's writing, he's suddenly no longer qualified or worth listening to. Since when did robots write articles and give the news?

So yeah, I was a little pissed, but I give what I'm given. I calmed down once there was some actual understanding going on.

lol, you really should just go over there. I mean... as long as you don't argue Cloti and just stand up for your friend, that's not against the rules

Of course you don't have to, but I think it'd settle things faster than just talking here.

LOL, so pretty much as long as I don't rock the boat and challenge their groupthink everything's fine.

As Cloud would say, "Not interested."

Nothing would be settled by me joining and posting there. If anything, it'd be made worst.

 

[Max Payne]

Lol I love it when I'm right. sometimes.

Also, the correct answer to the question posed by the thread is Cloud is incapable of having a relationship with anyone until he has been through several bouts of extreme therapy.

Crazy chocobo head is crazy.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Not true. Tifa's magic boobies heals all!

 

[Makoeyes987]

The only healing Cloud needs is SEXUAL HEALING.

Sex therapy is the best therapy.

Although to respond seriously, that is why Nojima said that Cloud and Tifa weren't going to be an easy couple. With Case of Tifa, there's the feeling that even without Sephiroth and Geostigma, things will still be troublesome. But no one said the couple was going to be "Happily Ever After" or easy. It'll take lots of work and understanding from both parties.

 

[Max Payne]

Cloud is a 13 year old boy trapped in a 22 year old's body.

 

[Death Sin]

Well, I think we all agree it would make Cloud feel better, at the very least... heheh. But I think Tifa knows how to reach out for Cloud if he ever derails... She's the person that better understands him, after all.

And Mako, I must say that your avatar is really awesome. Barragan needs love too

 

[Isabella]

The fact that everything still IS interpretational.

Pretty sure "interpretational" is being used incorrectly. /nitpick

And yes, apparently ~debunked~ = "we twisted the quote and squinted a bit until we made it look the way we liked, and/or we sat on it and managed to squeeze out a loophole, i.e., Cloud's name not being in the quote."

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Cloud is a 13 year old boy trapped in a 22 year old's body.

Which is EXACTLY why boob therapy would work.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Pretty sure "interpretational" is being used incorrectly. /nitpick

And yes, apparently ~debunked~ = "we twisted the quote and squinted a bit until we made it look the way we liked, and/or we sat on it and managed to squeeze out a loophole, i.e., Cloud's name not being in the quote."

Some days, I think I might be in love with you.

 

[Max Payne]

Pretty sure "interpretational" is being used incorrectly. /nitpick

And yes, apparently ~debunked~ = "we twisted the quote and squinted a bit until we made it look the way we liked, and/or we sat on it and managed to squeeze out a loophole, i.e., Cloud's name not being in the quote."

How dare you throw logic onto their fallback word. INTERPRETATION IS INTERPRETATION.

 

[Isabella]

Some days, I think I might be in love with you.

LOL. I can't force the passionate to see reason, but at least I can correct their grammar.