[Spoilers] Material Ultimania Plus discussion

[Obsidian Fire]

That also confirms it's not Aerith herself that is the source of the visions, but specifically the White Materia she has.

Which has some... interesting implications given what Holy actual does. It's supposed to get rid of anything bad for the Planet. How it does that is... very nebulous.

Sending memories of the future back if oh... the Plaent's enemy went back in time himself... why not?

 

[KindOfBlue]

So how are we all feeling on the alternate timeline vs same timeline theories after the new info?

Exactly the same: I have no idea which is which lol

I was right about those flashforwards OMFG and the whispers do try to take them away from her!!

Really interesting, so that’s what that line about Aerith losing part of herself when the Whispers touch her means

 

[Makoeyes987]

Edit: OMFG

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415723751447031808

I was right about those flashforwards OMFG and the whispers do try to take them away from her!!

Edit bis: I wouldn't have guessed that it came from the white materia tho but it's really interesting~

Wow, so it's literally like I just said, damn...

That's what the Whispers are/were trying to do to her. She's an anomaly in and of herself.

But I wouldn't have guessed the White Materia itself is what is responsible for it. It must act as some sort of link or artefact to the future given its connection to her later on. So it's like an antennae or something. Actually Toriyama seems to be speaking of it triggering Cloud's visions in that scene, not in general for Aerith. But that's still interesting.

But yeah, let's be clear. Aerith isn't time traveling. She's receiving memories from the future.

Thanks to the White Materia. EDIT: Whoops, I think that's all in reference to Cloud getting those future visions in that scene.

 

[Eerie]

Dude I wrote a whole essay about it loooooool. This is how I imagined it! The materia meddling aside, that is~

 

[Odysseus]

I think you might be reading it wrong. It says the materia was the catalyst for the vision, not the cause. Given that the flash forward shows the white materia falling after Aerith is stabbed, I think it's saying that seeing the materia is what triggered the vision.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I think you might be reading it wrong. It says the materia was the catalyst for the vision, not the cause. Given that the flash forward shows the white materia falling after Aerith is stabbed, I think it's saying that seeing the materia is what triggered the vision.

You might actually be right there. Reading it again, Toriyama seems to be speaking about Cloud's visions, and yes. In that scene he looks at that materia, and then the vision of the White Materia falling into the water happens.

So yeah, it's not that it triggered Aerith having visions, it triggered Cloud having those visions.

 

[KindOfBlue]

I do prefer the “visions of the future” direction over the Aeriths;Gate “time leaping back to the past” idea so I guess this is a plus

 

[Theozilla]

The idea that Aerith in the Remake is basically a psychic space-time receiver, made me remember this FMA gag comic that Arakawa made.


The way that Aerith is being described as having/containing various future memories, is both fascinating and frustrating. They’re effectively pseudo-subconscious knowledge, but obviously the writers are going to pick and choose what knowledge will actively bleed into the the present conscious Aerith. Basically the narrative plot device equivalent of “having your cake and eating it”.

I just hope whatever they do in the future installments, they keep the conscious present Aerith at least consciously unaware of her death.
As her not knowing that she would definitely lose her life going to the Forgotten Capital I think is an important element of her death, that she wasn’t deliberately going with the intent to martyrize herself.

 

[Makoeyes987]

They could easily go Final Destination with it

 

[Theozilla]

They could easily go Final Destination with it

I never seen the films, so I unfortunately don’t get the reference in this case.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well, you've seen Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, right? Or My Hero Academia? Death Note? Batman?

Berserk?

The bond of hatred between these two is so strong that it transcends everything.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415734209562304517

This isn't exactly new, but it definitely speaks to Sephiroth's (or Sephiroths' ha ha...) hatred and obsession. And whatever this *gestures broadly at the Remake* is, clearly Sephiroth wants Cloud to help him deal with it to his liking, as shown in the Edge of Creation.

 

[Odysseus]

Fox only, no items, four stocks.

EDIT: lol @ the people complaining about "multiple Sephiroths" in the twitter thread. Three of those versions of him were already present in the original game.

 

[Shademp]

What I want to know is if the terrier potato chip bag was a terrier *before* Zack survived the battle or if it was in fact a beagle even during the "flashback" up until the moment that the Whispers got destroyed. I want to know if the TVA Whispers were already failing so hard at their job that there already was a terrier timeline or if that only happened afterwards due to the Whispers being "retired".

 

[ultima786]

Well, you've seen Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, right? Or My Hero Academia? Death Note? Batman?

Berserk?

The bond of hatred between these two is so strong that it transcends everything.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415734209562304517

This isn't exactly new, but it definitely speaks to Sephiroth's (or Sephiroths' ha ha...) hatred and obsession. And whatever this *gestures broadly at the Remake* is, clearly Sephiroth wants Cloud to help him deal with it to his liking, as shown in the Edge of Creation.

It reads obviously as one Sephiroth manifesting in different ways.
just like OG.

 

[KindOfBlue]

Fox only, no items, four stocks.

EDIT: lol @ the people complaining about "multiple Sephiroths" in the twitter thread. Three of those versions of him were already present in the original game.

Twitter is where brain cells go to die

 

[Makoeyes987]

What I want to know is if the terrier potato chip bag was a terrier *before* Zack survived the battle or if it was in fact a beagle even during the "flashback" up until the moment that the Whispers got destroyed. I want to know if the TVA Whispers were already failing so hard at their job that there already was a terrier timeline or if that only happened afterwards due to the Whispers being "retired".

I think the fact Stamp's shown as a terrier after Zack lived through Crisis Core's ending sorta answers that.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1255342772153966593

It's connected to the impossible victory Zack managed to achieve.

And Toriyama tipped his hand a bit when he said:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415573942266339331

When those Whispers were destroyed, something chaotic happened. You could say that chaos split the timeline and as a result, another world was formed. Hell, that entire CGI ending of FFVII-R could be within another world. That's something I've now started wondering about myself. Stamp might be an artefact of that new world and the symbol it's separate and differentiated from where it came from. Because of that split.

But the fact Aerith feels certain things/people from that other world means that it's still somehow connected. Which is to say, very strange and a key detail that'll probably come into play later on.

 

[KindOfBlue]

When those Whispers were destroyed, something chaotic happened. You could say that chaos split the timeline and as a result, another world was formed.

 

[Eerie]

Hence why the duplication of Midgar, as shown before... They're the ones able to do that...

 

[ultima786]

I really don’t think jessie is alive in any added timeline, in the sense that we live in world A but she lives in world B. Rather, I think it’s becoming more clear to me that Zack, Biggs and Jessie are within the Lifestream, wandering it because of the anxiety of their souls and unable to move on and dissolve with the Lifestream. the Lifestream is now their world. They see Midgar and such because those are their memories. Zack sees the church (with the plate still up!) because that’s how he remembers it. Their environments are created by spiritual projections of their own self, in the same way the monsters in the VR simulator are seemingly Mako projections.

i think they are setting up for Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith having a more intense and involved Lifestream exploration scene, especially when Cloud is trying to rediscover who he is. Zack in the Lifestream will likely help with that and his spiritual manifestation will afterwards accompany Cloud afterwards, similar to how spiritual manifestations of Aerith and Zack did in Advent Children.

 

[SilverArrow20XX]

I doubt it's the Lifestream.
The plate is still up in the original ending too, with Marle, who we know is still alive, present.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

How is a "future memory" (which seems like an oxymoron to me) different from a "premonition"?

 

[SilverArrow20XX]

How is a "future memory" (which seems like an oxymoron to me) different from a "premonition"?

Semantics really, but.....
A premonition would be a vision of the future being shown to you.
A future memory would be more like an actual memory cause your mind exists is a state of non linear time where the future already happened.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

What with the confusing drawings and the bad translation, I couldn't make head nor tail of what was going on towards the end of Attack on Titan.
Maybe the version of Aerith sending visions to herself via iMateria is the dead one floating around in the timeless Lifestream...

 

[Shademp]

Yeah I still think it's unclear whether or not a coherent FutureAerith is leaking memories into her past selves/self or if it's just a "general memory/data leak" not caused by any specific entity in the future. Plenty ways this can still go.

 

[OWA-2]

I just wanna know how a river of memories(the Lifestream) can control the flow of time itself. How are memories able to affect an aspect of reality itself(an aspect that goes far beyond the planet)?