Spoony versus FFX

[Alex]

Wakka clearly used Sleep Attack on Lulu and then moved in for the kill.

 

[Dashell]

It's called peace of mind, you absolute mong.

Oh good I'm glad we're resorting to name calling. I was worried for second there.

not to mention his dad keeps showing up as Sin in the game. OH WAIT HIS DAD BEING A HIDEOUS FLESHBEAST WHO BROUGHT HIM TO SPIRA IN THE FIRST PLACE IS NOT A REASON FOR HIM TO COMPLAIN MY BAD

Except (get this, this is really cool) that this is NOT what he complains about. He complains about how his dad was a bad father and was better at blitz ball. He doesn't complain about how his dad is slaughtering tons of people or anything like that. That I could understand really. And I'm not saying Tidus has no reason to whine about his dad, just not as much as he does and about WHAT he does. I mean a lot of people have issues in FFX or someone to hate. Wakka with the Al Bhed, Kimarhi with his ronso brothers. Lulu with... a lot of stuff But they have much more legit reasons IMO. Tidus hated his dad because his dad was a bad father, which is fair enough, but it doesn't quite fit into the story like the other people's issues do. You just don't feel as bad for him as the others.

Maybe if you paid attention you would have gathered that.

Maybe I did pay attention and assumed what you said, but didn't feel it was explained very well. For example when the group goes into the Al Bhed basement area, there are fiends there. I assumed these to be from the Al Bhed who just sacrified themselves to save them from the Guado. So that happened pretty quickly. They had to be pretty strong willed as well, so I dunno, it just seems inconsistent.

I still don't see what the rush is for everyone to be sent if some people can stay on the planet for years by sheer force of will without any problems.

This. Excellent point. How is he not a protagonist that has an affect on the story when it is his influence, his unwillingness to cope with loss (the very thing that people hate him for) that breaks a thousand-year-long massacre and worldwide cover-up?
That's bullshit.

Auron tried the same thing, but no one listened to him. Both Wakka and Lulu were ready to sacrifice themselves and even called Tidus childish for wanting to break the cycle or suggesting taking on Sin another way. It wasn't until they spoke to Lady Yunalesca and found out the teachings were shit that they realized they needed to try something else. Auron helped out too, it was the group as a whole, not just Tidus that changed things.

I disliked Tidus because he was pretty obnoxious.

Pretty much this, his whining is only part of the reason I dislike him. I also dislike him because... well he's obnoxious.

None of the other characters bother me. And FFX was my first Final Fantasy. It's a great game and I love it, but it's not without it's flaws. And I think for the most part Spoony nailed the majority of them.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Except (get this, this is really cool) that this is NOT what he complains about. He complains about how his dad was a bad father and was better at blitz ball. He doesn't complain about how his dad is slaughtering tons of people or anything like that. That I could understand really. And I'm not saying Tidus has no reason to whine about his dad, just not as much as he does and about WHAT he does. I mean a lot of people have issues in FFX or someone to hate. Wakka with the Al Bhed, Kimarhi with his ronso brothers. Lulu with... a lot of stuff But they have much more legit reasons IMO. Tidus hated his dad because his dad was a bad father, which is fair enough, but it doesn't quite fit into the story like the other people's issues do. You just don't feel as bad for him as the others.

Dear God. You really need to stop talking about a game you don't even know about or understand. You either don't remember it, or are twisting shit up. Go back and play the game.

He fucking laments the fact about his dad being Sin several damn times, and how he has to break it to Yuna. Jesus.

Auron: It depends on what you mean by "alive." He is no longer human. But
then... I saw something of Jecht there in that shell, couldn't you? You must
have felt him when you came in contact with Sin.

There was a flash.

Tidus: It can't be...

Auron: It is. Sin is Jecht.

Tidus: (PO'ed) No! That's ridiculous! No way! I don't believe you!

Auron: But it is the truth. You'll see for yourself. Come with me.

Tidus: If I say no?

Auron: Every story must have an ending.

Tidus: I don't care about your stories!

Auron: I see. Sorry you feel that way. Fine, then. Come or don't come. It's
your decision.

Tidus: (PO'ed) What am I supposed to say? You tell me it's my decision... But I
don't have a choice, do I? You're the only one who can tell me what's going on,
anyways! I have to go with you! I have to!

Auron: Irritating, I know. Or are you afraid? It's all right.

Later...

Tidus: Auron? Will I ever go home? Back to Zanarkand?

Auron: That's up to Jecht. I'm going to offer my services to Yuna. Come.

Tidus: I remembered Auron telling me. Sin is my old man. Sin is
Jecht.

Tidus: (narrating) I have no idea what I was thinking when I ran after Sin that
day. But before I knew what I was doing, there I was chasing him down like a
thief at market. Maybe I was angry, maybe I wanted to go home. I kept thinking
of Zanarkand, and my old man.

Auron: Sin is Jecht.

Tidus: Yeah, for a while there, I thought I could feel him. But that doesn't
mean I believe you.

Auron: Sin is Jecht. He came here for you.

Tidus: So he killed all those people just for a chance to see me?

Auron: That's what Sin does. He wanted to show that to you. Do you know why?

Tidus: How am I supposed to know?!

Auron: So you would kill him. As long as he is Sin, Jecht will keep killing. He
wants you to stop him.

Tidus: You gotta be kidding. How do you know all of this, anyway?

Auron walks away.

Tidus: I'm not done talking to you! Don't you run away!

Auron: You're the one running.

Yuna: Don't worry. He won't come.

Tidus: (narrating) Trying not to think about my old man made me think about
him, of course.

Yuna: See, told you!

Tidus: (narrating) He isn't here because he's not dead. He's Sin.

Tidus: (narrating) It was then I knew...that Sin really was my old man. For the
first time, I was finally able to believe it.

Tidus talks to Sin.

Tidus: The song... You were listening, too! What is it this time?

The screen switches to a flashback of Zanarkand.

Tidus: Zanarkand... You homesick, too? That's not your world anymore. You're
Sin now.

The screen shows young Tidus.

Tidus: Hey, I'm older now, you know?

The screen shows Jecht.

Tidus: I know. You want this to end. I'll find a way. Promise.

How many more quotes do I have to throw at you from the game, that shows you Tidus's conflict and struggle with the fact his father is Sin? How did you miss the point, so fucking hard? His struggle with dealing with Sin and his Father is mentioned more than the initial anger and bitterness he feels over his Dad being better than him in Blitzball. Again. What game did you play?

Maybe I did pay attention and assumed what you said, but didn't feel it was explained very well. For example when the group goes into the Al Bhed basement area, there are fiends there. I assumed these to be from the Al Bhed who just sacrified themselves to save them from the Guado. So that happened pretty quickly. They had to be pretty strong willed as well, so I dunno, it just seems inconsistent.

You didn't pay attention, which again you make perfectly clear. The game says clearly the Guado BROUGHT the fiends with them to attack Home, which ended up killing everyone. The fact you thought they all turned to Fiends in an instant is pretty laughable and silly.

It's funny how everyone else seems to have understood it quite well but you're the one asking questions that make no sense or are answered by the story you claim to be inconsistent.

I still don't see what the rush is for everyone to be sent if some people can stay on the planet for years by sheer force of will without any problems.

Because not everyone has a strong enough will to do that.

Auron tried the same thing, but no one listened to him. Both Wakka and Lulu were ready to sacrifice themselves and even called Tidus childish for wanting to break the cycle or suggesting taking on Sin another way. It wasn't until they spoke to Lady Yunalesca and found out the teachings were shit that they realized they needed to try something else. Auron helped out too, it was the group as a whole, not just Tidus that changed things.

Are you fucking serious? Tidus and Rikku were the main forces who from the get go wanted to stop the fucking pilgrimages in the first place. Tidus was the first voice of opposition who spoke out and said no, to doing the final summoning. But of course you forgot that.

Tidus: We'll break it!

Wakka: But how? What, you got a plan now?

Lulu: If one of us has to become a fayth... I volunteer.

Wakka: Me too, Yuna!

Tidus: That still won't change anything, you know? You'd bring the Calm, and
then what? That won't break the cycle!

Wakka: Listen... You wanna defeat Sin and keep Yuna alive... You don't want Sin
to come back, ya? That is just not gonna happen, brudda, you know?

Lulu: If you want everything, you'll end up with nothing.

Tidus: But I want everything!

Wakka: Now you're being childish!

Tidus: I give up. So what would an adult do, then? They know they can just
throw away a summoner, then they can do whatever they like. You're right. I
might not even have a chance. But no way am I gonna just stand here and let
Yuna go. And what Auron said about there being a way... I think it's true.

Rikku: "You'll think of something"?

Tidus: I'll go ask Yunalesca. She's got to know something.

Rikku: You really think she'll help you?

Tidus: I don't know, but I have to try. This is my story. It'll go the way I
want it...or I'll end it here.

Yeah, it was everyone who decided to challenge what Yunalesca and Yevon taught and confront her about another way to beat Sin. Yup.

Pretty much this, his whining is only part of the reason I dislike him. I also dislike him because... well he's obnoxious.

Well one could say you and Spoony's whining about plot holes and the lack of understanding regarding FFX and Tidus, which are clearly explained within the story, as being pretty obnoxious.

None of the other characters bother me. And FFX was my first Final Fantasy. It's a great game and I love it, but it's not without it's flaws. And I think for the most part Spoony nailed the majority of them.

Except NO. He didn't, and if you paid attention you'd know that.

 

[Joker]

Oh good I'm glad we're resorting to name calling. I was worried for second there.

There's only so much unwillingness to see the obvious that I can put up with in one day.

However, you're right; that's not fair to you, because it's rude. I'm sorry for that.

Now, please do feel free to counter the rest of my post. I'm interested in your take on it.

 

[Joker]

My question is more that of how the unsent Maesters/Auron/etc manage to resist The Sending.

Or why Auron has to avoid the Farplan. Would it be cause the pyreflies would be noticeable? (and why AREN'T they to begin with, anyway?)

Also, where did we land on this? =(

 

[Dashell]

However, you're right; that's not fair to you, because it's rude. I'm sorry for that.

Now, please do feel free to counter the rest of my post. I'm interested in your take on it.

Lemme look at it.

And yeah, his father treated him like shit, then disappeared, causing his mother to not want to live anymore, then die. Not at ALL a good reason to hate him.

I don't think I ever said he didn't have a reason to hate him, if I did, I didn't mean it like that. I just got tired of hearing about it all the time. There were a lot of interesting plot points that I would have rather heard more about. The whole thing about Tidus' dad just seemed out of place to me. Although it made a bit more sense when they tied it to sin and I did enjoy their high five in the end.

Also note that he wasn't whining, he looked at a giant sign of him, gave a grunt of disgust, then kept walking. *is currently playing the game*

Okay not whining per say, but it's like they went out of their way sometimes to make sure we knew Tidus hate the guy. We get it, he hates his dad, you don't need to keep bringing it up. Though to be fair I think that was probably the first time.

Mako your entire post is why I don't want to post here anymore. All you ever do is act like a total dick to me any time I disagree with you. What's worse is when you've acted like an ass to me when I've been right and you don't apologize or anything. It's like you only respond to me to be a total and complete jerk and I'm really getting tired of it. Get your head out of your ass. If you want me to tell you why I don't like Tidus and why I thought Spoony's review was funny I will. But stop with the holier than thou attitude. Just because your opinion is different than mine doesn't give you the right to act like that.

Dear God. You really need to stop talking about a game you don't even know about or understand. You either don't remember it, or are twisting shit up. Go back and play the game.

As I said FFX was my first final fantasy, and it's been a few years since I played it. I'm not going to pick up the game just to counter arguments in this thread. I did understand it, some things were confusing but saying I didn't understand the whole thing because I didn't quite get the fiend concept is a bit much I think.

and the only time I really see him lamenting about Sin killing people (which is what I said) is here:

Auron: Sin is Jecht. He came here for you.

Tidus: So he killed all those people just for a chance to see me?

Auron: That's what Sin does. He wanted to show that to you. Do you know why?

Tidus: How am I supposed to know?!

Auron: So you would kill him. As long as he is Sin, Jecht will keep killing. He
wants you to stop him.

You didn't pay attention, which again you make perfectly clear. The game says clearly the Guado BROUGHT the fiends with them to attack Home, which ended up killing everyone. The fact you thought they all turned to Fiends in an instant is pretty laughable and silly.

Glad I can amuse you.

It's funny how everyone else seems to have understood it quite well but you're the one asking questions that make no sense or are answered by the story you claim to be inconsistent.

Yeah I guess I'm just a big stupid fucking idiot, aren't I Mako? God forbid I ask question or try to clear things up. Jesus fucking christ am I ever dumb.

Are you fucking serious? Tidus and Rikku were the main forces who from the get go wanted to stop the fucking pilgrimages in the first place. Tidus was the first voice of opposition who spoke out and said no, to doing the final summoning. But of course you forgot that.

Right so Rikku helped too. It wasn't just Tidus, it was the group ultimately. Tidus of course did help persuade them, but it wouldn't have done much good without the rest of the group there. I'm not saying Tidus didn't do anything, but Tidus alone wouldn't have been able to do much. He needed people like Yuna and Rikku with him to help him out. And Auron too, know what I mean?

anyway blah blah blah and so on and so forth I don't feel like doing this anymore.

 

[Joker]

Except at that point, we didn't even know what Jecht looked like. And at that point there's been ZERO mention of him hating his father.

And what plot points would you rather have been expounded upon instead?

 

[Dashell]

And what plot points would you rather have been expounded upon instead?

They were talking about Ject though on the radio I think, right?
Anyways, I would have liked to have seen more backstory for some of the other characters like Kimarhi, Lulu and Wakka. I was always really interested in what their life was like with Chappu around and was disappointed that we didn't see more about it.

Also in B4 Mako makes a dick post saying I'm taking things too seriously and everyone thanks him.

 

[Joker]

Yeah, and they didn't say that Jecht was Tidus' father (someone you pass on the street does if you talk to them), and they didn't mention that Tidus hates Jecht, either.

What more backstory can Wakka POSSIBLY have? Lulu and Kimahri also got a lot of face time, although it didn't explore their childhoods. Lulu is a failed guardian, and Kimahri is a runt and reject who got pwned and had his horn broken - all of which is gotten into during the story.

But why would they even go into Chappu? It's not a pleasant subject for them, especially since Tidus apparently looks like him.

 

[Dashell]

Yeah, and they didn't say that Jecht was Tidus' father (someone you pass on the street does if you talk to them), and they didn't mention that Tidus hates Jecht, either.

Actually I made the connection and now that I think about it I remember why. When I first played FFX I was living with this guy and I watched him play bits and pieces of it. So I knew that was Tidus' dad they were showing. But now that I think about it, you're right that it make sense that a new player wouldn't know that.

What more backstory can Wakka POSSIBLY have? Lulu and Kimahri also got a lot of face time, although it didn't explore their childhoods. Lulu is a failed guardian, and Kimahri is a runt and reject who got pwned and had his horn broken - all of which is gotten into during the story.

They just kept talking about Chappu and I dunno, I would have liked to have seen a scene or two of him in it. I guess I'm one of those who'd rather see the scene then hear about it. The whole show not tell thing, you know?

But why would they even go into Chappu? It's not a pleasant subject for them, especially since Tidus apparently looks like him.

Yeah but he got a lot of mentions, and I just would have liked to have scene a little more of him. Maybe it would have been pointless but I think it would have helped understand the whole rift between Lulu and Wakka that was going on at the time.

 

[Dashell]

Just to point something out here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=677lY9IrqKY#t=4m05s

At this point you see pyraflies swarm around (which is what happens with dead people and all) and then a fiend appears. I thought they were showing us how a fiend is formed. To me this happened kind of quickly, which makes sense as to why they'd need to do a sending quickly. There were no Guado in that scene to have created said fiend so this is what I thought it was. Now I also know they're performing a sending and all, but I just figured that for some reason this person didn't get sent.

Also I didn't know the voice in the background was different in Japanese, interesting.

 

[looneymoon]

Tidus' daddy issues were like Jack's daddy issues during Lost. Sure they are integral to both the characters, and factor heavily towards the overall plot... I just simply don't care about those issues. It just got a little bit much sometimes. I agree that his hatred for his father was justified, but I find it to be a rather simplistic way to generate emotional turmoil character. Simplistic in the way that it was handled, that is. This doesn't apply so much to Jack because he has various other problems which were augmented by his relationship with his father.

With Tidus on the other hand, the whole Jecht-thing pretty much engulfed his whole character until way late in the game when other shit comes up (namely, not being real). His hatred was justified, but what I really want to know is how does it make Tidus how he is? How does it effect his relationship with others? His ability to form relationships? None of these questions are really answered. Heck, half of them aren't even brought up. They probably should be brought up if it's something that central to the character. All we get to really see is that he hates they guy because he's a jerk. Cool. The rest is fandom assumption.

I mean, Tidus is probably one of the most socially adjusted characters in the entire series. He complains about Jecht a lot throughout the game. Other than that? He's perfectly fine. His relationship with his dad never really bleeds into anything else (from what I recall, anyway). In that way I can understand how people could see how the effect of this hatred doesn't really match up with the conveyed importance of said hatred. Does that make sense? I bring up Jack because perhaps Tidus' arc could've been handled a little more tastefully, and I can understand the exhasperation with some fans. Ffffshhh I really hope this is all making sense.

Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who liked Tidus' character development, considering I can relate with him, having an estranged relationship with his dad.

 

[ForceStealer]

Quex you're taking things too seriously.

I can has thx nao?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

So many posts to thank and/or respond to. Times like this I hate that my phone sucks for forum posting, as I would like to have been involved in this thread during my breaks at work last night.

Just because I like the journey doesn't mean I have to like the guy taking it. How is it hypocritical to dislike someone for being a bigot, even if they "tried to make up for it"? Doesn't change the actions they took, or the results. It's commendable that he did, sure, but it doesn't change the fact that he said and did some fucked up things.

It may not be hypocritical, but it's kind of pointless and senseless. Someone who has gone through a crisis of meaning and come out the other side with a different way of thinking is a different person.

He complains about how his dad was a bad father and was better at blitz ball.

Tidus never complains about his dad being better at Blizbtall. He privately feels infuriation when memories of his dad making him feel inferior surface, but he never expresses anger about his dad being better than him at a sport at a time when one was a small child and the other was grown.

He doesn't complain about how his dad is slaughtering tons of people or anything like that.

I know Mako has already posted quotes refuting this, but he didn't mention how Tidus chased Sin into the ocean shouting "Don't you run away from me!" at the end of Operation Mi'hen, or this narration from shortly thereafter:

How many died today? People die, and Yuna dances. When will she stop dancing? When will it stop? Yuna won't stop dancing-- not until Sin is gone.

What Sin was doing was really pissing him off.

Also, remember this scene?:

Lulu: I hope that you're not too mad at Wakka.
Tidus: Hey, not at all.
Lulu: Thank you.
Tidus: Say, what do you think of Rikku?
Lulu: Me? She's...fun to be with.
Tidus: Heh! That all?
Lulu: Well, I can tell she's not a bad person.
Tidus: Yeah. You know what the problem is? She's just another Al Bhed to Wakka. Wakka's head is as hard as a rock. I bet it's because of Yevon. Or, you know, something like that.
Lulu: Well, there's more to it than that.
Tidus: Hmm?
Lulu: Wakka doesn't like the Al Bhed because of his brother Chappu.
Tidus: Oh...he used a machina weapon, right? And got killed by Sin. Killed by my old man. Damn you, Jecht.

Auron tried the same thing, but no one listened to him. Both Wakka and Lulu were ready to sacrifice themselves and even called Tidus childish for wanting to break the cycle or suggesting taking on Sin another way. It wasn't until they spoke to Lady Yunalesca and found out the teachings were shit that they realized they needed to try something else. Auron helped out too, it was the group as a whole, not just Tidus that changed things.

Auron helped by bringing Tidus along. He deliberately never made any attempt to influence Yuna's thinking, instead letting the younger generation decide for themselves what they wanted.

And it was Tidus's influence on Yuna that led her to begin questioning things. He was the reason she even considered asking Yunalesca "Might I ask something first? Will Sin come back even should I use the Final Summoning to defeat it?"

Mako your entire post is why I don't want to post here anymore. All you ever do is act like a total dick to me any time I disagree with you. What's worse is when you've acted like an ass to me when I've been right and you don't apologize or anything. It's like you only respond to me to be a total and complete jerk and I'm really getting tired of it. Get your head out of your ass. If you want me to tell you why I don't like Tidus and why I thought Spoony's review was funny I will. But stop with the holier than thou attitude. Just because your opinion is different than mine doesn't give you the right to act like that.

I'm glad that Que said this, Mako, as I was planning to bring up the matter. You really do get unnecessarily rude and irrationally upset with her. Very frequently.

And it's true that you don't acknowledge when she's right. When you find out she is your responses usually begin with "Well ... [insert reason it doesn't matter here]."

 

[Joker]

It may not be hypocritical, but it's kind of pointless and senseless. Someone who has gone through a crisis of meaning and come out the other side with a different way of thinking is a different person.

Just because someone is a repentant murderer who regrets his actions doesn't mean that the families of his victims suddenly feel better.

It's not pointless or senseless at all.

 

[ForceStealer]

Even if he risked his life to save the lives of others?

 

[Joker]

doesn't mean that the families of his victims suddenly feel better

 

[ForceStealer]

So murderers should either not reform or kill themselves, huh? Because they sure as hell aren't going to be forgiven no matter what they do.

Regardless, this barely applies to Wakka, who never actively hurt someone (that the rest of the party didn't also, anyway), he was just an insensitive jerk.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'm glad that Que said this, Mako, as I was planning to bring up the matter. You really do get unnecessarily rude and irrationally upset with her. Very frequently.

And it's true that you don't acknowledge when she's right. When you find out she is your responses usually begin with "Well ... [insert reason it doesn't matter here]."

Umm, I didn't notice there was a difference at all, to any person I debate with. I admit. I'm aggressive. I put the screws to Lord Noctis when he said the same thing and brought up points on Spoony's review that were incorrect. I get passionate. Sometimes too much, but I don't see how that makes it personal or necessitates an emotional outburst when nothing stated was ever personally directed or an insult. Christ, people say worst on the internet, and do make it personal without even making a logical point. I mean, really?

And what are you talking about? I never admit when someone's right. Everyone's wrong when against me. And so are you. See?

 

[Joker]

So murderers should either not reform or kill themselves, huh? Because they sure as hell aren't going to be forgiven no matter what they do.

Regardless, this barely applies to Wakka, who never actively hurt someone (that the rest of the party didn't also, anyway), he was just an insensitive jerk.

Correct, they won't be forgiven. Look at the way it works in the real world. Does anyone trust an ex-con, even one who DIDN'T kill someone?

And I'm preeeetty sure that words can hurt people.

 

[Dashell]

I know Mako has already posted quotes refuting this, but he didn't mention how Tidus chased Sin into the ocean shouting "Don't you run away from me!" at the end of Operation Mi'hen, or this narration from shortly thereafter:

I guess I'm thinking more about what he said to the other characters. To me saying "Damn you Ject" to himself or w/e isn't really complaining. He was pissed at Sin/Ject yeah, and I realize he couldn't tell people right away that Sin was Ject, it just kind of seemed like that was secondary to a lot of other things. And again it's not Tidus' whining that upset me, it's just that he's obnoxious. Maybe I can't really explain why but... he just is.

Also people brought up how Tidus has a reason to complain because he found out he doesn't exist... does he ever complain about that though? I don't seem to remember him even really minding when he found out XD

Anyways... basically this:

With Tidus on the other hand, the whole Jecht-thing pretty much engulfed his whole character until way late in the game when other shit comes up (namely, not being real). His hatred was justified, but what I really want to know is how does it make Tidus how he is? How does it effect his relationship with others? His ability to form relationships? None of these questions are really answered. Heck, half of them aren't even brought up. They probably should be brought up if it's something that central to the character. All we get to really see is that he hates they guy because he's a jerk. Cool. The rest is fandom assumption.

And it was Tidus's influence on Yuna that led her to begin questioning things. He was the reason she even considered asking Yunalesca "Might I ask something first? Will Sin come back even should I use the Final Summoning to defeat it?"

True but as you said Auron brought Tidus along. Without Auron doing that nothing would have changed. I just think other people should be getting credit here besides Tidus is all

I'm glad that Que said this, Mako, as I was planning to bring up the matter. You really do get unnecessarily rude and irrationally upset with her. Very frequently.

Thanks but w/e. I should probably just steer clear of this topic

 

[Makoeyes987]

In the end, that still proves Spoony doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

His bombastic rhetoric goes beyond him just not liking Tidus.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Just because someone is a repentant murderer who regrets his actions doesn't mean that the families of his victims suddenly feel better.

It's not pointless or senseless at all.

I'm just finding it weird (i.e. nonsensical) to not like someone based on traits that no longer apply to them.

Umm, I didn't notice there was a difference at all, to any person I debate with. I admit. I'm aggressive. I put the screws to Lord Noctis when he said the same thing and brought up points on Spoony's review that were incorrect. I get passionate.

Well, can we agree that you very frequently get emotional/passionate with Que, then?

And what are you talking about? I never admit when someone's right.

True dat.

 

[looneymoon]

To be honest, I find Wakka incredibley grating even despite his bigotry. That just makes hime hateful. As Diego said, I appreciate his journey and I'm glad he's reformed... but even still, I never warmed up to his personality. At the beginning of the story he is the annoying and somewhat thick, albeit well-intentioned, bigot. At the end of the story he's no longer a bigot, but he's still annoying.

 

[ForceStealer]

And I'm preeeetty sure that words can hurt people.

Come on meg, you're really gonna tell me an insensitive comment is on par with murdering a family member?

People are hesitant to trust a reformed murderer because if they relapse - they freaking kill someone. If Wakka relapses, he'll just insult Rikku. (Who's a pain in the ass anyway ) Beyond that even, I wasn't really talking about the way the "world works," I was talking about you.

@looneymoon: And that's fine, but that's not really what Omega is saying (though it may well be true), he's saying Wakka can't overcome his past failings in his (Omega's) eyes.