The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Stop spoiling FFVI and FFIV/The After for me, you bastards

Re: Moving on: Everybody gets one.

After that, you're stuck with whoever comes along next.

Where have you people been all your lives?

 

[Fighter]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Not too long ago the very idea that Cloud liked Tifa at all would have been rejected outright. Nowadays it's ok that he had a crush on her but it's all in the past. The number of times clerii have backtracked their views is impressive, one would think there is a moral somewhere in there.

 

[Lily Ella]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

They are consistent at being inconsistent~

whoever mentioned Locke/Celes and Cloud/Aeris shippers: I always found that weird aswell. I always thought Locke/Celes was similar to Cloud/Tifa, so I always found it a little weird when Cloud/Aeris obsessers ship it.

Not too, too weird. Rachel was Locke's first love/childhood sweetheart. She got hurt/fell off of a bridge, and Locke got blamed by everyone (mainly Rachel's father) for the accident. Locke's self-esteem took a hit. Locke comes home just to see his hometown destroyed.

Tifa is Cloud's first love/childhood crush. Fell off of a bridge, and Cloud got blamed for it. His guilt and self-esteem issues pretty much stem from that, don't they? Cloud leaves town. He comes back home, and his hometown gets destroyed.

So, I guess they somehow decide that Tifa = Rachel, and therefore Aeris = Celes (even though Aeris and Celes have very little, if anything, in common).

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Where's Celes' ex-boyfriend who looks/acts like Locke? I want him to say his piece.

The I-leave-you-to-protect-you shit is so cliche and overused, it makes me want to gag. We can easily come up with several lists of its appearances in all media. Books, films, games etc.

It's not that the Clerii don't get this. They seem to ahve no trouble getting it anywhere outside of FF7.
It's just that they approach anything FF7 with the intention of "hmm, how can I see this as anti-Cloud/Tifa?" That's why everythign that comes out of their circle is completely laughable. They're not conclusions anyone else would come to, because they follow no logic or common sense. It's just random disecting and inventing with the purpose of arriving at their specific destination: Cleris.

This is why they always have to backtrack and change their arguments, and come up with more absurd shit everytime something new comes out. It has to be cut, altered, modified, to fit into the pink.

For all their endless "essays" of bullshit upon bullshit, they still have no substantial answers to simple issues like the Coud/Zack identity problem (they insist Cloud only stole his sword and started gesturing like him, despite the FACT official material say Cloud adopted Zack's PERSONALITY TRAITS).

It's not even a debate anymore

 

[looneymoon]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=CelesChere link=topic=53.msg1986#msg1986 date=1229243719]
Oh, yeah. This certain person also made a reference to Locke's bandana being like Aerith's ribbon, and that show similarities to CloudxAerith. (Even though the ribbon is from Zack... weird...)
[/quote]

Because all ribbons/flowers = Aeris and all rejected love interests = Tifa

[quote author=Lily Ella link=topic=53.msg2038#msg2038 date=1229295887]
So, I guess they somehow decide that Tifa = Rachel, and therefore Aeris = Celes (even though Aeris and Celes have very little, if anything, in common).
[/quote]

Yeah, I just found it a little strange because I always saw Locke/Celes as more similar to C/T, as since many of them are so vehemently against anything resembling a Cloud/Tifa romance... I just found it a little odd. It makes more sense when trying to describe it in a C/A situatuon, even though making Aeris = Celes is iffy.

[quote author=OneWingedDemon link=topic=53.msg2040#msg2040 date=1229297829]
It's not that the Clerii don't get this. They seem to ahve no trouble getting it anywhere outside of FF7.
It's just that they approach anything FF7 with the intention of "hmm, how can I see this as anti-Cloud/Tifa?" That's why everythign that comes out of their circle is completely laughable. They're not conclusions anyone else would come to, because they follow no logic or common sense. It's just random disecting and inventing with the purpose of arriving at their specific destination: Cleris. [/quote]

This is how I see it...

The LTD: THEDOGATEMEAT
normal reasoning: The dog ate meat
rabid shipper reasoning: The do gate me at

In order to arrive at that conclusion, you have to seriously abstract normal reasoning. If that made any sense. My analogies tend to make better sense in my head.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=looneymoon link=topic=53.msg2054#msg2054 date=1229303088]
Because all ribbons/flowers = Aeris and all rejected love interests = Tifa[/quote]

Wait... Kain is Tifa? He hides being a brunette woman well, what with being a blond man.

Yeah, I just found it a little strange because I always saw Locke/Celes as more similar to C/T, as since many of them are so vehemently against anything resembling a Cloud/Tifa romance... I just found it a little odd. It makes more sense when trying to describe it in a C/A situatuon, even though making Aeris = Celes is iffy.

The Locke/ Celes/ Rachel situation only has superficial similarities to the FF7 situation. Locke lacks the identity crisis, Rachel as the first love isn't still an active part of the dynamic.
If you killed Tifa before FF7 and had Cloud still thinking about her while Aerith tried to figure it out, you'd have a situation similar to FF6. But she didn't so you don't.
Furthermore, there's an explicit "you should move on" scene with Locke and Rachel, but there's nothing to suggest Cloud ever moved on from Tifa. They even reaffirm it mid game.
Similarly, there's no overtly romantic scenes for Cl/Ae like with Lo/Ce. The two situations on bear the commonalities of a triangle, a childhood friend and a new entity, but they're all in such different configurations they aren't alike.

This is how I see it...

The LTD: THEDOGATEMEAT
normal reasoning: The dog ate meat
rabid shipper reasoning: The do gate me at

In order to arrive at that conclusion, you have to seriously abstract normal reasoning. If that made any sense. My analogies tend to make better sense in my head.

I prefer this analogy.
I helped my friend jack off a horse.
Most people this sentence as being about how I helped my friend Jack to dismount an equine.
Shippers see that sentence as being about how Jack needed aid in manually stimulating the same equine for marital purposes.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Shippers see that sentence as being about how Zack needed air in manually stimulating the same equine for marital purposes.

Oh, so that's why I thought the sentence was gross at first.


In the end, "connections" to other couples don't matter as much as the Clerii try to make it out to be. They think everything's this secret code to unlock, where it really isn't. Connections are interesting, but only when you have proof to base it on. If you think CxA is similar to SquallxRinoa (for whatever reason), it's only interesting when you can first prove these are both couples. THEN you do you comparisons for personal interest.

 

[Rinoa]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

As someone who loves pink and ribbons, I'm saddened by all the negative connotations

Besides, doesn't pink/ribbons/flowers == Zack & Aerith?

 

[Madame Mayor]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Rinoa link=topic=53.msg2070#msg2070 date=1229315130]
As someone who loves pink and ribbons, I'm saddened by all the negative connotations

Besides, doesn't pink/ribbons/flowers == Zack & Aerith?
[/quote]
1. She could just be wearing pink cause she likes the colour.
2. The ribbon is totally different in the end FMV than it is in the rest of the game. Prob got a new one.
3. She sells Cloud a flower duh!


Yes... all those things were made very Zerithy and it hurts the Clerii and makes them need to make crap up more.

 

[null.]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Balthea link=topic=53.msg2062#msg2062 date=1229311556]
In the end, "connections" to other couples don't matter as much as the Clerii try to make it out to be. They think everything's this secret code to unlock, where it really isn't. Connections are interesting, but only when you have proof to base it on. If you think CxA is similar to SquallxRinoa (for whatever reason), it's only interesting when you can first prove these are both couples. THEN you do you comparisons for personal interest.
[/quote]

I'd much rather they compare C+A to existing couples than rely on interviews in fictitious restaraunts.

 

[Celes Chere]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Balthea link=topic=53.msg2071#msg2071 date=1229315670]
[quote author=Rinoa link=topic=53.msg2070#msg2070 date=1229315130]
As someone who loves pink and ribbons, I'm saddened by all the negative connotations

Besides, doesn't pink/ribbons/flowers == Zack & Aerith?
[/quote]
1. She could just be wearing pink cause she likes the colour.
2. The ribbon is totally different in the end FMV than it is in the rest of the game. Prob got a new one.
3. She sells Cloud a flower duh!


Yes... all those things were made very Zerithy and it hurts the Clerii and makes them need to make crap up more.
[/quote]

Ahaha, that "Aerith's ribbon is different" thing makes me laugh so hard. xD Because it's a different shade of pink in the end of CC, and it's RED in KH. Goodness. And they never respond directly to you in LTD when you bring up these points. Seem to ignore them for some reason...

I wonder why.

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Her ribbon changed color wut nao? I never noticed!

You sure it isn't just in game graphics vs. FMV rendered shiz?

 

[Madame Mayor]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Tennyo link=topic=53.msg2078#msg2078 date=1229318149]
Her ribbon changed color wut nao? I never noticed!

You sure it isn't just in game graphics vs. FMV rendered shiz?
[/quote]

No! Of course not!

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Tennyo link=topic=53.msg2078#msg2078 date=1229318149]
Her ribbon changed color wut nao? I never noticed!

You sure it isn't just in game graphics vs. FMV rendered shiz?
[/quote]

The difference is age, light, and the way she's tied the thing. That's it. I mean, you wear something every day for seven years, you see how much the color fades.

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

There's also the fact that the screens they use for proof have different lighting:

http://www.clerith.com/ZARelationship.htm

Why would SE complicate the story by having her get a new ribbon that has no meaning? This has got to be the lamest argument I've ever heard.

That being said, even if it were true Aerith loving Cloud =/= Cloud loving Aerith. Sorry but it's true. The same logic that applies to Maiden applies to everything else my dearies.

 

[Isabella]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

That link made me die a little inside.

 

[Celes Chere]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

It's not tied the same way Zack tied it... I can't believe I was in denial this whole time.

Thinking that Aerith would tie her own ribbon is ridiculous! She's a weak girl that has to rely on men to do things for her. Such is the logic, I mean nonsense, presented in the link.

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Isabella link=topic=53.msg2092#msg2092 date=1229323695]
That link made me die a little inside.
[/quote]

Ain't that the truth.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[size=small]Don't forget they also use crap translations in their essays.[/size]

[size=small]Zack: Anyway Cissnei---Do you think you could talk to my mother for me?[/size][size=small]Cissnei: That's true. It'd be my pleasure.
Zack: Just don't say anything that would make them think you're my bride to be.
Cissnei: I've already told them.
Zack: How could you tell them something like that! Cissnei!
Cissnei: That isn't my real name.
Zack: Eh?![/size]

[size=small]Clerii we get it, Crisis Core is very scary, but for heaven's sake play the friggin game! [/size][size=small]As a refresher, Zack asks Cissnei to watch his parents, she says she already met them, he says they'll probably ask her to become apart of the family, and she says they already have. How is that even remotely like what this says? People who have played the game in Japanese, if you remember this scene and if it was different from the English translation, please tell us.[/size]

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Tennyo link=topic=53.msg2091#msg2091 date=1229322202]Why would SE complicate the story by having her get a new ribbon that has no meaning? This has got to be the lamest argument I've ever heard.[/quote]

Like, totally

Why make a scene of Zack buying her the ribbon, then change it without any word of warning to the audience?

Cloud possibily-because-you-can't-see-if-he-isn't wearing his arm ribbon in DC somehow is a C/A hint, but Aerith clearly wearing the possibily-maybe-the-same ribbon isn't for Z/A?

Not that I think there's going to be some, or any, posthumous epic Z/A (or anyone else) Lifestream romance complete with Cetra family. But still

That being said, even if it were true Aerith loving Cloud =/= Cloud loving Aerith. Sorry but it's true. The same logic that applies to Maiden applies to everything else my dearies.

That only applies to Tifa, sorry.

People who have played the game in Japanese, if you remember this scene and if it was different from the English translation, please tell us.

?????????(???)

The Japanese one says the same as you said. I looked it up on YouTube to double-check, where I found the video containing that translation. There's a number of minor errors in it as a whole, but this one seems like one of the more major ones.

For reference:

?????????????????????????
(Though I think they'll ask you how you feel about being a bride.)
????????????
(They already did.)
???????????????
(What did you say [in response]?!)

The translation seems to have mistook 'iwareru', which means 'to be told something [by someone else, to me]', as simply '[I/etc] said'. Maybe also mistook the 'na' at the end for the 'na' used to tell people not to do something (though that wouldn't work here), and perhaps 'nante' at the end as a 'how could you/what a ... thing to do/etc' rather than 'what [was said, etc]'.

Considering the attitude some of the people behind that site have towards 'fan translations', I'm surprise that they still have that up when the offishul English one has been out for ages.


The staff have also said that Cissinei isn't meant to be a romantic interest for Zack, just a friend who supports him. I think it was in an interview that was on AC.net, but it's lost now with the rest of it because I don't know if I saved the file. I thought AC.net would be around forever

 

[Tennyo]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I think I saw the interviews posted somewhere recently. I didn't read them though so I don't know if the one you are talking about was there as well.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I assume someone must have copied them somewhere else. I'd like the originals as well, so I can check to see if I didn't make a mistake or anything.

Not that I make mistakes, of course

 

[Rinoa]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Ah, botched translations. Nothing new here. It's like them still wishing for Cloud to die.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Translations that never leave their forums?
What's new about that?

Dude, they make up shit like Wacdonald's. Botched translation is actually a step lower. LOL

 

[Madame Mayor]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Even if lets say those were the translations, heres the issues:

1. Doesn't say or even imply that Zack has feelings for her, just that she does, or she's just messing with him.
2. If Zack's parents had met a girl who was they thought to be romantically involved with Zack, wouldn't they then know Aerith or Tifa wasn't the girlfriend he wrote home about?
3. All this Zack is a player crap is getting old. Aerith is in denial when she says she thinks he might have run off, and his parents make it very clear he wrote home about ONE specific girl who he was seeing (and doesn't the Ultimania say something implying he was going to propose to her and told his parents in the letter?)