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I Am Not Me

The Mean Clack
AKA
Mei, Koibito, Stalker, Little Dude, Nami
Man.. why do the rabid Cleri think that Tifa was a last minute addition and that Cloud and Aerith were the original couple?

I'm not a rabid Cleri and I think that way. :O At least, somewhat that way. I'm just sure I read it somewhere, and it's not a Clerith site either.

Cloud and Aerith were the original couple. At least, the slick, non-spikey, black-haired Cloud was with the Aerith-with-Tifa's-personality.

why do people make things up? when there are interviews RIGHT THERE!!

But I'm not making things up... :(
 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
- FFVII was originally planned to take place in New York (!).

Quote:
Nomura: "I still have the drawings to Sakaguchi's original story. Around that time, Cloud didn't even exist. We had a duo who were the heroes of the game. I remember that one of them had rivets on the outfit and that they were chased by the police."

"The headlights and metropolitan feel are remains from our early interpretation of New York."


- Sakaguchi rewrote the script and the city turned into Midgar.

HAH I KNEW IT I WAS RIGHT!!!! ^_______^'

@Tennyo *nods* Wasn't it in some Swedish magazine? Am I crazy? :/

Click the link in Shadowfox's post
 
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Channy

Bad Habit
AKA
Ruby Rose, Lucy
>_____>

As a Clerith I take this opportunity to diffuse your facts and substitute your reality with my own logic, and that is that I was right. :monster:
 

kelly20

Pro Adventurer
HAH I KNEW IT I WAS RIGHT!!!! ^_______^'



Click the link in Shadowfox's post

GOOD JOB

Now find the one where it mentions Aerith was supposed to be in love with some one else... that was not Cloud!! I know I read it somewhere...

@ I Am Not Me

I wasnt talking about you ;)
A lot of those rabid shippers make their assumptions and try to make it look like facts

like the Koi Bito thing...that was just whoa..

I heard the Japanese Clerith fans started to bash and insult the creators instead of making up stuff.. lols
 
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Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
I'm not a rabid Cleri and I think that way. :O At least, somewhat that way. I'm just sure I read it somewhere, and it's not a Clerith site either.

Cloud and Aerith were the original couple. At least, the slick, non-spikey, black-haired Cloud was with the Aerith-with-Tifa's-personality.

You know I've never actually heard any real confirmation on this. I remember that the staff had been going back and forth between Sephiroth being Aerith's first love to being her brother, and there was something once that said that Aerith was also from Niblehiem and that her and Cloud were childhood friends, but I've never actually read anything that states taht Cloud and Aerith were originally intended to be a couple.

Now find the one where it mentions Aerith was supposed to be in love with some one else... that was not Cloud!! I know I read it somewhere...

See above.
 

kelly20

Pro Adventurer
You know I've never actually heard any real confirmation on this. I remember that the staff had been going back and forth between Sephiroth being Aerith's first love to being her brother, and there was something once that said that Aerith was also from Niblehiem and that her and Cloud were childhood friends, but I've never actually read anything that states taht Cloud and Aerith were originally intended to be a couple.



See above.

Thankss :)

I never read the childhood friend one though..
 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
Yeah I can't remember where it was, but Aerith was going to be Cloud's childhood friend, and then Sephiroth was bouncing back and forth between being her love interest and her brother, and all that. lol
 

I Am Not Me

The Mean Clack
AKA
Mei, Koibito, Stalker, Little Dude, Nami
I wasnt talking about you ;)
A lot of those rabid shippers make their assumptions and try to make it look like facts

like the Koi Bito thing...that was just whoa..

I heard the Japanese Clerith fans started to bash and insult the creators instead of making up stuff.. lols

Oh. Well. XDDDDD Hehe.

I remember that Koi Bito thing. I ran across it while I was lurking. XDDD That was so epicly stupid, it makes fail seem epicwin. This is also magnified at how I have a lot of (real) Japanese relatives who taught me the language. KAWAII DESU LOLz

You know I've never actually heard any real confirmation on this. I remember that the staff had been going back and forth between Sephiroth being Aerith's first love to being her brother, and there was something once that said that Aerith was also from Niblehiem and that her and Cloud were childhood friends, but I've never actually read anything that states taht Cloud and Aerith were originally intended to be a couple.

Well, the fact that there is no Tifa makes the couple Clerith, right? They were the hero and heroine. But that's probably just my inner initial!Clerith speaking.

OMG LOLZ SEPHAERITH FTW I never knew that!!!! XDDDD WIN

Yeah, it was because Tifa's role was originally Aerith's. Like I said, initial!Aerith was split in half. XDD
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
All Clotis do is obsess over the LT! JEEZ it doesn't matter what time it is! xD

It's actually 4am here... For the love of Kira... I should go... *nah*

I remember that Koi Bito thing.

Who doesn't remember that nonsense?

I heard the Japanese Clerith fans started to bash and insult the creators instead of making up stuff.. lols

Yeah, I recall posting a quote of someone saying SE keeps saying things that aren't true, lol. If they declare Cloti canon, I finally know that their reaction will be:
"Square keeps lying!"


 

kelly20

Pro Adventurer
Oh. Well. XDDDDD Hehe.

I remember that Koi Bito thing. I ran across it while I was lurking. XDDD That was so epicly stupid, it makes fail seem epicwin. This is also magnified at how I have a lot of (real) Japanese relatives who taught me the language. KAWAII DESU LOLz



Well, the fact that there is no Tifa makes the couple Clerith, right? They were the hero and heroine. But that's probably just my inner initial!Clerith speaking.

OMG LOLZ SEPHAERITH FTW I never knew that!!!! XDDDD WIN

Yeah, it was because Tifa's role was originally Aerith's. Like I said, initial!Aerith was split in half. XDD

lol... REAL?? hehhehe

I still think that Tifa's role was not originally Aerith, unless someone provides me PROOFZ!! :offended:

but then again, I could just say SE was lying!! :monster:
 

I Am Not Me

The Mean Clack
AKA
Mei, Koibito, Stalker, Little Dude, Nami
LOL Sorry about that Isabella. XDDDD We can't help it.

lol... REAL?? hehhehe

I still think that Tifa's role was not originally Aerith, unless someone provides me PROOFZ!! :offended:

but then again, I could just say SE was lying!! :monster:

Yes, real. LOL I still find it funny how they re-translate stuff just to remove all Cloti proofz. KOI BITO :awesome:

Well, I can't provide any proofz, but I know what I read. I'm only new to FF7, so my mind can easily be influenced by new info... LOL

SE LIES NOOOOOO DISNEY WILL NOT CONDONE :rage:


All Clotis do is obsess over the LT! JEEZ it doesn't matter what time it is! xD

It's actually 4am here... For the love of Kira... I should go... *nah*


Mahahahaha!!! :lol: That's true. And you should up and go to sleep already :awesome:


Who doesn't remember that nonsense?

It was the biggest nonsense ever, that's for sure. No one will ever forget it. :monster:

Yeah, I recall posting a quote of someone saying SE keeps saying things that aren't true, lol. If they declare Cloti canon, I finally know that their reaction will be:
"Square keeps lying!"

It will be more like: "NO, CANON MEANS THEY ARE NOT THE REAL COUPLE" :awesomonster:
 

BWAngel

Rebel without a Cause!!!
Koibito = Love?

Okay, being one of the noobs, will someone explain to me what is up with the koibito thing, because the closest thing I've heard about it is from rapid Cloti people.
 

I Am Not Me

The Mean Clack
AKA
Mei, Koibito, Stalker, Little Dude, Nami
Koibito is basically what one would call their "lover" or "girlfriend". It's mostly lover.

While I'm not entirely sure in what exact context koibito was used wherein they completely butchered the definition, I'm pretty sure that's how it's supposed to translate.

Must be because it refers to Tifa :awesome: Whose lover could she be? HOMG Maybe Barrett's

CLOTIS HAD SE AT GUN POINT!

RITE!!!!!111 :wackymonster:
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Koibito is, in essence, Lover, or girlfriend (or boyfriend for you ladies), with the embedded implication that the relationship is a mutual one.
Even when used without mutuality, such as "Cindy Crawford is my koibito", the word is being used in error, same as if I said "Cindy Crawford is my wife". Both statements are factually untrue, but neither changes the meaning of wife or koibito. It would still be valid to say that Cindy Crawford is a wife, and she is a koibito- to her husband.

But aside from the linguistic koispacebito argument, there's the simultaneous 'and it could refer to anyone' argument, which always told me they were never quite sure about their ground WRT that word, since they're saying 'it has other meanings!' and 'She's someone else's lover!' at the same time. But let's set aside the linguistic side for a moment. Let's focus on the 'It could be anyone!' nonsense. Assuming briefly that such statements (Tifa is someone's lover) is not an utter red herring to AC, her lover would logically be one of the men- more logically one of her friends and allies- seen in the film. Now, among these options, she has expressed interest in only a single man, only one of them has expressed a romantic interest at her, only one of them is described as living with her, belonging with her, only one of them states he plans on starting his new life with her by his side (more specifically, that his new life will succeed where previously he had failed because he had her now, and would have her from that day forward), etc. etc. etc. Just apply occam's razor and cut away the extraneous elements, folks.

But this brings me to another common complaint I have with C/A arguments. Complete and utter lack of parsimony. Parsimony, if you are unfamiliar, is the logical and scientific principle regarding the usage of Occam's razor, which states, in essence, when faced with two or more competing theories which otherwise explain a given set of data, favor the theory with the fewest number of additional assumptions, so that you are left with the simplest adequate explanation.
In practice, this means that the more assumptions, guesses, and ad hocs your explanation has (more accurately, that it relies upon to support itself), the worse off it is.
The C/A is canon argument proceeds with the assumption that Cloud loves Aerith. In brief, conclusion assumption is circular logic and one of the most aparsimonious things you can do.
That, or they point to her death scene (and only her death scene) as the first indica of 'his feelings of love' for her, though I don't believe I've ever gotten a straight answer why his reaction to her death means love, though I do recall a lot of 'Oh, he cried, he said Sephy didn't matter, he didn't attack sephiroth (nor did the rest of the party. Are they also in love with Aerith?)

The other big problem they have is inventing of the ptolemian epicycles in order to avoid C/T evidence. They spend a lot of time spin doctoring C/T aligned quotes, and making up excuses for the lack of C/A aligned ones, and never seem to realize what the situation is telling them.

Then comes their double standards, and I've got a whole different harangue on that one, complete with discussion of various standards of proof and no matter how rigorous your standard, when set even, it keeps coming out more in favor of C/T.
But I've been rambling long enough. Perhaps later.
 
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I Am Not Me

The Mean Clack
AKA
Mei, Koibito, Stalker, Little Dude, Nami
AMAGAD Plain English please? :aah: I only got barely half of what you're saying. LOL


But aside from the linguistic koispacebito argument, there's the simultaneous 'and it could refer to anyone' argument, which always told me they were never quite sure about their ground WRT that word, since they're saying 'it has other meanings!' and 'She's someone else's lover!' at the same time. But let's set aside the linguistic side for a moment. Let's focus on the 'It could be anyone!' nonsense. Assuming briefly that such statements (Tifa is someone's lover) is not an utter red herring to AC, her lover would logically be one of the men- more logically one of her friends and allies- seen in the film. Now, among these options, she has expressed interest in only a single man, only one of them has expressed a romantic interest at her, only one of them is described as living with her, belonging with her, only one of them states he plans on starting his new life with her by his side (more specifically, that his new life will succeed where previously he had failed because he had her now, and would have her from that day forward), etc. etc. etc. Just apply occam's razor and cut away the extraneous elements, folks.

That 'it could refer to anyone' statement was fail. EPICFAIL.

I know this may be a n00b question, but where did they get that koispacebito thing? O__o

I do recall a lot of 'Oh, he cried, he said Sephy didn't matter, he didn't attack sephiroth (nor did the rest of the party. Are they also in love with Aerith?)

You are late with the news. Remember those pink ribbons? It's the symbol of their love. It's AVALANCHExAerith DID U NOT KNOW :monster: It also means Zack doesn't love her because he doesn't have one!!!11

Then comes their double standards, and I've got a whole different harangue on that one, complete with discussion of various standards of proof and no matter how rigorous your standard, when set even, it keeps coming out more in favor of C/T.
But I've been rambling long enough. Perhaps later.

I've seen that. When you look at it more closely, their arguments are giving CT moar proofz. Maybe they're closet Cloti fans?
 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
I know this may be a n00b question, but where did they get that koispacebito thing? O__o

They made it up.

Someone was like "Oh, and isn't it actually "koi bito"? " and ever since then they went with koi_____________________________________________________________bito.
 

I Am Not Me

The Mean Clack
AKA
Mei, Koibito, Stalker, Little Dude, Nami
Are there things that they aren't making up? Koi_bito is sad. I wonder if they're internally hitting themselves for the fail they brought onto themselves... :(
 

Alessa Gillespie

a letter to my future self
AKA
Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
Koi_bito makes me lul. They do realize 'bito' is the compound form of 'hito' right, and you cannot just have it sitting there by itself? Oh the poor, desperate other side.

And then of course there's the argument that because it's in kanji and not hiragana/katakana it is automatically NOT ROMANTIC.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Never mind that Kanji contains the meaning of words...

What, in particular, are you having trouble parsing, IANM? I'll try and go over it in a more understandable manner.
 

Alessa Gillespie

a letter to my future self
AKA
Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
Never mind that Kanji contains the meaning of words...
Precisely. Because you know if it was in kata/hira, the pinkers would say that it means Tifa has the aspect of someone who sells fish. :awesome:
 
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