The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Strangelove]

Didn't CoT not count before? I was under the impression that since it was in Tifa's POV, what was said in it was unrealiable. But now it's Aerith POV (again), it suddenly counts?

And how do we explain all the 'koibito in kanji cannot mean mutual lovers' stuff? Is that suddenly different now? Have people retracted that? Have I missed that?

 

[Ryushikaze]

You have not, Hitobito. I'm waiting for an explanation for the various backpedals the pinkers have been engaged in.

 

[Reference]

We should have a backpedaling smiley, no?

 

[Isabella]

As people have said, the two instances of "koibito" are NOT equal. One is from Aerith's POV, the other is spoken by Nomura about Tifa's role.

 

[Reference]

As people have said, the two instances of "koibito" are NOT equal. One is from Aerith's POV, the other is spoken by Nomura about Tifa's role.

Aerith > Nomura. Role = character trait.



The comment count on the the front page post is almost as much as the novella's page count.

 

[Goodbye Charlie]

As people have said, the two instances of "koibito" are NOT equal. One is from Aerith's POV, the other is spoken by Nomura about Tifa's role.

And to remind everyone, the past debate was rarely about the context of the term's use with Tifa, it was always about whether the term could be romantically applied and not simply a friend. There was a separate debate to the nuances of the sentence beyond koibito - whether the sentence was referring to Tifa's character traits or her role, but this issue - how koibito could be applied in other instances never came up.

And up until now - strangely - the "opposition" never even considered it a romantic word. How times change yet the faces remain the same.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Moreover, they said it was Two words, meaning one who loves, or that it was one word, but the meaning of the word simply wasn't present when it was written in kanji.

And yet, immediately upon the mention of it in relation to Aerith's feelings to Cloud, not only is it one word, not only is the meaning now contained in the word when it is written in Kanji, but it now means that the person's koibito must reciprocate their feelings.

Of course, even if it does, that still doesn't 'kill' C/T, since if a person's koibito must reciprocate, and we know that Tifa has only ever been interested in Cloud, then by that logic, the only person Tifa can be a koibito to is Cloud.
QED.

 

[Tennyo]

Okay, I understand now that the 'koi' part of the word carries romantic connotations over the general meaning of love. But Cloud was not Aerith's sweetheart/lover, so again I have to question the use of the word in this instance. The word seems a little strong for me, considering any romance they could have had was cut short.

Everyone else already said it within their long posts but I'll give the Cliff's Notes version. XD

In RF it was stating that Tifa was beloved by someone.
In CoLW it is stating that Cloud is beloved by Aerith.

Comp proof and creator comments infer that Tifa is the woman Cloud wants, so if Tifa is beloved by someone, why wouldn't we think that was Cloud? And we already know she definitely returns those feelings. Koibito was never what lead us to that conclusion.

It was obvious in the game that Cloud and Aerith had a special bond so why wouldn't Aerith hold him to such esteem? But the thing here is that we don't know for certain if Cloud actually reciprocates those feelings in such a romantic context. Koibito doesn't tell us that. It never has.

Different topic: I don't see how lover and beloved can't mean the same thing. It boggles my mind. :/

 

[A]

Apparently it's one-sided when the creator of the game states that Tifa is a koibito. Naturally though, Aerith > Nomura > Everyone.

 

[Masamune]

Okay, fair enough.

Thanks for the clarification, y'all.

 

[Tennyo]

lol I just made a huge edit to my post to make it longer, Masa. lol

 

[OneWingedDemon]

@ Masa:

As Fighter said, Aeris said she loved Cloud > Zack in Maiden too. Right before she found out that she focused on the Zack in him and then never said anything like that again.
So saying that Cloud is the object of her affections isn't really anythign groundbreaking, which is why the Clerii are trying their best to not have it xlated as "beloved" (hence the first page drama) to mean that it is from Aeris' POV -- that was their problem with Maiden.

And within the context that Nomura was talking about, it would be nonsensical to say Tifa is a mother (to the children we know), ally (to AVALANCHE) and a lover (to Johnny who is barely mentioned within the compilation?). Why would that need to be stated in regards to her role in Advent Children?

Within RF, where it is describing her role (as described by the director) relative to the main guys we know (and the main character), Tifa is a mother, lover and a fighter.

What we have now, is Aeris, the character, saying Cloud is the object of her affection, that TO HER Cloud is her sweeheart. This is specified. If you shove that through one of those word-for-word translators, that's what it'll give you. It is a limited narration that doesn't go beyond what Aeris knows -- and that changes its meaning. Not the word itself, just how we're meant to understand it. CoL fails to go in depth between Cloud/Aeris relationship, because then you'd get why Aeris thinks so, like you get in Maiden. But this a short piece, mostly dealing with Sephiroth and Geostigma, so that's understandable.

I'm pretty sure Fighter said everything, but you know me -- I have to open mah mouth

I was under the impression that since it was in Tifa's POV, what was said in it was unrealiable.

Only where Tifa is concerned

EDIT: Oh great, as usual I is super late

 

[Strangelove]

and a lover (to Johnny who is barely mentioned within the compilation?)

With Tifa, despite her not feeling the same way about these other people, can be koibito to Johnny, or Barret, or the kids from Nibelheim.

But now, are people saying it means they must mutually feel the same? Because it's about Aerith? Despite the ~literal~ grammar being "to the woman" and describing what Cloud is to her. Not a simple declarative sentence like "Cloud was the woman's friend and lover" or such.

Did I mention I'm a literature student as well? I'd tell you that I got full marks on my last exam, but I'm far too modest for that. But that means you can trust me on this too, srsly.

 

[Isabella]

Tifa can be a koibito to anybody because Cloud's name isn't mentioned.

Cloud can be a koibito to anybody because "the woman's" name isn't mentioned.

And judging by what sluts they both are, I daresay they really are koibitos to everyone.

 

[Celes Chere]

Sorry, catching up here... Reading the front page was awesome.

you've missed the flip-flop to end all flip-flops

OMG, those flip-flops are adorable! I want them. <33

Aerith, who didn't even need to be in that sequence anyway

She didn't need to be there, but I always thought it was really awesome that she was. There's only that one full view shot of her at the end of the film, and she really looked lovely in Calling. Ah, well. I can't say that I wasn't a little happy she was removed so that certain people would stop using it as proof.
(Actually, it really hasn't stopped them.)

Apparently hitoshura has unreliable translations now. Oh lawd.

But wait! Even though they (meaning batshit crazy rabids) hate the Forums, I thought they said TLS had the news they wanted. And, don't they continue to use TLS as a source for translations, even though they are just unreliable and flat out WRONG? All of the members are Cloti crazed, and that's all they care about like, EVER?

If any rabid pink Forum goer is reading this, please realize you're full of shit if you keep using TLS translations! (You're still full of shit, even if you don't) If Hito is so BAD at translating, why don't you get your precious Chibica and Saeki to butcher the Japanese language to suit your fancy. Or are they still on perma vacation, a ruse for "I can't translate worth a damn!"

Apparently it's one-sided when the creator of the game states that Tifa is a koibito.

In my debate on TNC, I was faced with, "Tifa could be a Koibito to a lot of people, since it's her character trait". I have never used this before, but now I'm so annoyed after reading through all of this text that I must finally go ahead and:

 

[A]

It is a bit saddening that yes, they seek information and updates from this site, and yet they try to refer to hito's translations as unreliable when they wish. They can start their own translation team if they really don't trust people who actually volunteer to contributing without being biased, unlike some out there.

And judging by what sluts they both are, I daresay they really are koibitos to everyone.

Sephiroth, Zack...

 

[ShuShu]

Lol. The frontpage was awwwesome.

Much lulz. It is abit moronic of them to use The lifestreams translations and works on their forum, which has page after page of The lifestream bashing, and all that nonesense.

What stupidity. If they want to bash the hard work that comes from this place, they can take it off their little site and stop using it, and translate themselves.

Oh wait, they cant. As much as they like to claim they do.

 

[Strangelove]

What stupidity. If they want to bash the hard work that comes from this place, they can take it off their little site and stop using it, and translate themselves.

I'm sure they will, and it'll be radically different but just what they were saying all along. Also, it'll all be in present tense.

And I'll live to twist another day. With a word that has the same bloody meaning.

 

[Celes Chere]

Hey, that's not fair, ShuShu. It takes a LOT of work to copy paste all of the information here, to post on their site! Be a little sympathetic, would you?

 

[Vendel]

Be a little sympathetic, would you?

Sympathy for the Devil?

 

[Tennyo]

lawl I speak from experience. Copypasta is hard work, yo.

 

[A]

Just as difficult as it is to copy and paste their 'proof' they've previously written on Word Document, because they're too busy with their real lives to copy and paste.

Egad, and I thought writing A FULL BLOWN OUT ESSAY two paragraphs of explaining why they can't was a lot longer than using the copy option and pasting it onto a post.

 

[Tennyo]

Silly Alise, of course writing a long post about why they have no time is quicker than copying and pasting a whole essay that they already have written out in Word. XD

 

[Danna]

I think it's very common for Japanese to leave out the subject/object being mentioned in the sentence. Even if Cloud's name isn't mentioned there, it's apparently the most logical that Nomura implied Cloud when describing Tifa's role of lover/sweetheart in AC. Who else it can be if not the protagoist, plus Tifa obviously has a feeling for Cloud.

On the koibito's topic, it clearly means Aerith-->Cloud-->Tifa in my opinion :3

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Danna... do I know you from the Bleach fandom? /random