The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[DrakeClawfang]

You know Drake, I'll give you credit for actually having the balls to post your thoughts here for us to reply to instead of just having it hidden behind a private forum where only one viewpoint is expressed.

No problem at all! My main motivation for joining here, aside from liking the translations, was to show Cleriths in a better light.

*Buzz Lightyear voice*

I am Drake Clawfang, I come in peace.

 

[A]

Cleriths are perfectly fine. We aren't generalizing. Hell, I have a close Clerith bud who helps me moderate a Cloti forum, and she supports Clerith 100 percent. And plus, we can use more Clerith members because the CloudxAerith club needs more people.



Rabid pinkers are a different story.

 

[Strangelove]

I had hoped when I started this thread that no one would feel unconfortable taking part in the thread, but it does have a habit of getting (perhaps too) snarky.

The same scene, two different translators, both of whom speak fluent Japanese, and two very different results. Which one is more correct? Who knows?

In some cases, I think you can know. Because sometimes, it's a misunderstanding of the source text. If you'll excuse me degressing a bit:

- Someone who had a crystal told me so.

Seems to have mistaken 「ある」, which is used to refer to something you aren't going to specify, as the identical 「ある」 (to have). 「ある人」 is a common expression meaning 'a certain person'. So here, I think the first is correct.

- That's why when you find your strongest feelings, it'll just come to you naturally.

There's nothing really about 'finding' your strongest feeling (which is closer to the original), 'follow' is better.


But in other cases, given the occasional vague nature of Japanese (which I digress about later), it is going to depend on the person reading it. There's time when the Japanese version might be open to interpretation, and you just have to make a choice in English.

Translating isn't an exact science. It's a series of judgment calls.

I want to give you a puppy for that.

In FFXII (in the little database thing) the generally excellent translators (from what I've heard of the dialogue anyway) apparently make a choice on the gender of a character only referenced (Ajora), which contradicts materials released later in Japanese (maybe Mako remembers this?). The original text was vague and both interpretations were possible, and in this case the ones the translators made didn't match up to the one that was there.

Translation isn't just about 'A=B' word replacing (hopefully). 'Koibito' doesn't mean 'lover', or 'beloved' and that's it. It's a word that happens to have the same uses in Japanese as those words do in English. 'Lover/girl/boyfriend/sweetheart/beloved' are approximations of this word in a completely different language.

The thing that irks us, Drake, is the immediate cry of bias, the accusation that hitoshira is deliberately spinning translations in order to mislead people. If you aren't one of the people saying this (such as our new buddy on the front page), then our snark isn't directed at you.

You're going to have a whole litter before I'm finished writing.

I'm going to quote Twelfth Night again:
"The rudeness that hath appeared in me have I learned from my entertainment."

In 2004, I was perfectly reliable to C/A fans. I could post in their forum, and I was still 'neutral' who was fluent in Japanese. Anyone who disagreed with my translations was probably just some jealous Cloti.

Now, I'm the Cloti Devil who is just 'doing the best he can' (by the same people who said fluent before). I'm a 'fake neutral' for posting in Faith or having comedic signatures about C/T. No one care's what my opinion is, because it's just going to be biased by my love of C/T which people had decided I must have.

That is where my snark comes from. I'm always told people what I disagree with. All I seem to have got in return is people telling others that I mistranslate things on purpose. I would accept people saying I've made a mistake, but people don't do that.

 

[Tennyo]

Hito can I have a puppy, too?

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Hito can I have a puppy, too?

I'll give you one.

Also, just a little side note. I was watching ACC with my hubby just a bit ago and when it was over I asked, "So...what'd you think?" (He's never played the game btw) Here's the conversation:

Him: "It was good. Not sure why you like it so much, but it was good."
Me: "Well, to be fair, you really should play the game to fully appreciate it."
Him: "Probably, but it was good."
Me: "So...if you had to say...which girl would you say Cloud loves?"
Him: "Huh?"
Me: "Between Tifa and Aerith--"
Him: "Who's Aerith?" (I tend to forget not everyone knows everything FFVII and that they never really say who she is in the film.)
Me: "Girl in pink."
Him: "Oh. Is that a serious question?"
Me: "Depends on who you ask, but yeah, it's a legitimate question."
Him: "I must have missed something because I don't see anything romantic between him and that other girl."
Me: (sigh) "Which other girl?"
Him: "The pink one." (I giggled a bit at that, I know it's lame...but I did)
Me: "So, Tifa then?"
Him: "The guy freaked out when he found her all beat to hell. Yeah, her."
(This made me realize that given Cloud's emotionless state through MOST of the film and compilation that he does indeed do the equivalent of 'freak out' when he finds Tifa... but I digress.)
Me: "So in your opinion Cloud loves Tifa."
Him: "Isn't that what I just said. It was pretty damn obvious. Why?"
Me: "Oh, no reason."

 

[Isabella]

PUPPIES!

That's interesting, FHS. On the other hand, I've seen people say that Cloud freaking out over finding Tifa is in no way romantic, but Cloud and Aerith standing back-to-back amongst flowers is. *shrugs* I guess romantic is in the eye of the beholder, eh?

To me, the most romantic scene in ACC might just be

Spoiler

Cloud's scene with Marlene. No, not in a creepy, pedo way. What I mean is, seeing Cloud want to be a better man, a better partner and father figure out of love for his family, is romantic to me.

 

[Ryushikaze]

An amusing story, though hardly influential, FHS.

However, it does sort of undercut a concept that keeps coming up in the LTD. Folks who get told the compilation favors a particular pairing- usually C/A- and then discover upon playing and watching for themselves, that it does not.

While I tend to ignore 'My X thought the movie was so in favor of Y' as the hearsay and easily faked evidence it is, the tales of folks who don't see see C/A even when they enter their interaction with the compilation being told it is there is quite interesting.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Once, I watched ACC with my SO and he said in his opinion, Cloud was in love with Sephiroth and they had buttsecks.

 

[Ⓐaron]

The Foe Yay in that particular relationship is quite obvious

 

[Edley]

Was there some sort of discussion of translations earlier? I'm sorry but I only trust the official translators Square provides.


Looks at sig...



Yes, Cloud are sick.


What do you mean out of context?

She's looking right at him!

They're lovers right?

I was told so in a TV ad.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Ah yes, Love that could never be...

Because Marketing is perfectly trustworthy, and would never lie to you.

That's why Squall spends so much time in FF8 trying to win Rinoa's heart.

Of course, even if marketing were trustworthy, it's a love that could never be. That means C/A is doomed.

 

[ShuShu]

Ah yes, Love that could never be...

Because Marketing is perfectly trustworthy, and would never lie to you.

That's why Squall spends so much time in FF8 trying to win Rinoa's heart.

Of course, even if marketing were trustworthy, it's a love that could never be. That means C/A is doomed.

Not only that, but notice the actual Japanese commercials have nothing love, or love triangle related whatsoever. Those kinds of things really cant be trusted. So some NA director watched the cutscenes and thought Cloud and Aerith were a couple and put some cheesy Romeo and Juilet spinoff tagline on it...

So thats whats really canon...North American Mistakes in marketing...

 

[Fairheartstrife]

An amusing story, though hardly influential, FHS.

Wasn't meant to influence. Was meant to amuse. I'd hardly use a conversation with someone--even MY someone-- as "LTD" evidence. Especially considering that they'd never payed the game and that I consider there to be no debate. I just found it amusing and decided to share. Hadn't realized that this kind of thing had been used as evidence before? That's just all sorts of sad.

Also, my apologies if every post is supposed to be of "influential" content. Given the number of random stuff I've seen, I guess I decided to insert a bit of my own random. From now on I'll keep my posts confined to subject at hand.

 

[Edley]

That's the kind of stuff you see on their pages. I wonder though what would happen if SE definitively closed the book on the whole mess.

 

[Isabella]

We know you weren't using that as evidence, FHS. Ryu, I think, was just using it to point out the sad fact that we've seen people do it before, in an actual debate. lol

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

It's about as silly as the idea that you MUST make it obvious to everyone what the main couple is. JK Rowling certainly didn't give two poops about Harry/Hermione or Harry/Luna when she made Harry/Ginny and Ron/Hermione canon, even if some people didn't see it. Point is, personal POV doesn't really matter, what matters is how the author/creator/artist feels about it.

 

[Strangelove]

Where I work, linguists get paid well over six figures.

You don't say...

I would hope that people don't start saying 'koibito' can't be mutual now, because I would disagree with that. Because that would be just the same as suddenly saying the LW quote means C/A is canon despite a website full of anti-koibito essays.

I've never said the RF quote means 'Cloti is canon' or 'it's definitely talking about Cloud', which I've seen people saying I have. I've always been careful not to say that. All I said was that Cloud was the most logical choice. Because honestly, Johnny? Barret? Rufus/Reno/Rude?

On the subject of RF, that sentence is in the present tense. Does that mean it can't be about Cloud's feelings in the past? Aerith's 'present tense' quote means Cloud is her current love, doesn't it?

 

[Isabella]

You tell us, man. Does Tifa being called a koibito in the present tense mean they can't be referring to her childhood, as I've seen some argue? Or is it "once a koibito, always a koibito?"

 

[Strangelove]

Love is, obviously, a Highlander mentality. There can be only one koibito.

But, obviously, Tifa must just be someone else's. Not Cloud. Because there's no way a man might have more than one love in their life. It's not like they mention Cloud, who knows who it might be.

(The only RF thing related to the past is the 'ally' bit, which modified with a past tense clause about having fought together. 'Koibito' is the same 'present tense' as LW.)

Wasn't meant to influence. Was meant to amuse. I'd hardly use a conversation with someone--even MY someone-- as "LTD" evidence.

It's okay; as long as you're not planning to use your girlfriend to get her class full of little kids to take part in some kind of LTD experiment, you're fine.

 

[Goodbye Charlie]

It's okay; as long as you're not planning to use your girlfriend to get her class full of little kids to take part in some kind of LTD experiment, you're fine.

Given some of the horrors that have been committed in the name of science, I think that experiment would be positively fluffy. Pointless, but fluffy. Like a kitten made from dandelions. That sort of fluffy.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

It's okay; as long as you're not planning to use your girlfriend to get her class full of little kids to take part in some kind of LTD experiment, you're fine.

Well, there go my plans for Thursday. Damn it. **sigh**

 

[Tennyo]

I'll give you one.

Yay!

Also, just a little side note. I was watching ACC with my hubby just a bit ago and when it was over I asked, "So...what'd you think?" (He's never played the game btw) Here's the conversation:

Him: "It was good. Not sure why you like it so much, but it was good."
Me: "Well, to be fair, you really should play the game to fully appreciate it."
Him: "Probably, but it was good."
Me: "So...if you had to say...which girl would you say Cloud loves?"
Him: "Huh?"
Me: "Between Tifa and Aerith--"
Him: "Who's Aerith?" (I tend to forget not everyone knows everything FFVII and that they never really say who she is in the film.)
Me: "Girl in pink."
Him: "Oh. Is that a serious question?"
Me: "Depends on who you ask, but yeah, it's a legitimate question."
Him: "I must have missed something because I don't see anything romantic between him and that other girl."
Me: (sigh) "Which other girl?"
Him: "The pink one." (I giggled a bit at that, I know it's lame...but I did)
Me: "So, Tifa then?"
Him: "The guy freaked out when he found her all beat to hell. Yeah, her."
(This made me realize that given Cloud's emotionless state through MOST of the film and compilation that he does indeed do the equivalent of 'freak out' when he finds Tifa... but I digress.)
Me: "So in your opinion Cloud loves Tifa."
Him: "Isn't that what I just said. It was pretty damn obvious. Why?"
Me: "Oh, no reason."

lol That's an amusing conversation.

 

[null.]

I think Aerith being in love with Cloud makes perfect sense. It also jives better with the way she behaves toward him in the movie.

 

[Celes Chere]

Just as difficult as it is to copy and paste their 'proof' they've previously written on Word Document, because they're too busy with their real lives to copy and paste.

Lol, you know I never did get that PM of that "word proof" she promised.

If this is a problem I can request the C&P be removed.

Drake, there really is no problem with copy pasting in itself. I'm just saying, that if there are people complaining about the translations here, and hating our guts for being "mean" to people who started BS in the first place, why they'd continue to use translations from this site. I mean, where's the dignity in using someone you dislike for fake translations, only to claim that it's ALL WRONG when one thing in it doesn't go your way? It's just a little upsetting, like someone said before, if they can't respect the site for how it 'acts', they can at least respect the hard work that is put into the site, and the news provided on it.

But then I forget that respect is really asking too much, when we're talking about the majority of the members that are on CxA. Sorry. (There are very nice users there too. )

I thank you for actually approaching the topic in a mature manner and actually siting a reference for why you feel the way that you do. It's very much appreciated.

I agree with this one hundred percent. I really respect your approach on things, Drake, instead of pointing fingers and playing a victim, you're actually coming here to discuss your honest feelings. That really is a very nice breath of fresh air.~

This entire ordeal is asinine and disrespectful. Hitoshura doesn't take sides. He's corrected us - read, non-Clerii - several times in the past

I agree. If he were really trying to be Cloti biased, he'd hide all of the Aerith information, and hide the entire beloved line so that no 'hints' of Clerith would be presented at all.

I think Aerith being in love with Cloud makes perfect sense.

I think so too... though I wonder about what exactly is going on with Zerith, now. =/

 

[GeoMill]

I think so too... though I wonder about what exactly is going on with Zerith, now. =/

I think so as well. I mean, after all the bull Zack went through....

SE revives a dead cow.