The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Celes Chere]

I meant bullying him in the past Ali, but it's true that some people think Tifa was being "bitchy" to Cloud in AC. That just baffles me. =/

And, I agree Isa. Tifa has the right to try knocking some sense into him.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

I'd say her absolute devotion to Cloud is almost a fault. She puts up with far too much crap from the guy.

Agreed. If it wasn't for the extenuating circumstances that we're aware of, her devotion would be rather disturbing.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I wouldn't say she bullied Cloud in AC. She was certainly harsh, but what she said had to be said.

The one thing that struck me as a bit insensitive from her at first is "a memory of us?", because it almost sounded to me like an ultimatum - Cloud's family or Aerith and Zack. Then I found out an alternate translation the original Japanese version of that line was something like "why do we have to lose out to memories", which I think made it a bit clearer she was trying to get Cloud to let go of his past in general, not just Aerith and Zack. Which is still harsh but less so, while the "memory of us" way it was phrased didn't sit well with me.

The thing is, Cloud's memories play a huge part of who he is. With the Dissidia dialogue and CoL it almost reminds me of Kingdom Hearts, how big a role memories play in explaining him and Sephiroth. I don't think he'll ever fully put his past behind him, one way or the other I think he'll always have Sephiroth's shadow over him. But that's fine - just because you can't leave your past behind, doesn't mean you can't live with it. And that's what Cloud does - he doesn't forget his past, he remembers it and lives for the present.

Agreed. If it wasn't for the extenuating circumstances that we're aware of, her devotion would be rather disturbing.

Same, lol. In KH2 I was like "is she stalking him now or something?"

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

The one thing that struck me as a bit insensitive from her at first is "a memory of us?", because it almost sounded to me like an ultimatum - Cloud's family or Aerith and Zack. Then I found out an alternate translation the original Japanese version of that line was something like "why do we have to lose out to memories", which I think made it a bit clearer she was trying to get Cloud to let go of his past in general, not just Aerith and Zack. Which is still harsh but less so, while the "memory of us" way it was phrased didn't sit well with me.

I don't know if she means he must forget Aerith and Zack, it seems more like she's telling him to stop fearing Sephiroth since he's just a memory. Coincides with his line of "I will never be just a memory." IMO, of course.

 

[A]

I wouldn't say she bullied Cloud in AC. She was certainly harsh, but what she said had to be said.

He deserved it fully, I say. He needed that moment of realization.

The one thing that struck me as a bit insensitive from her at first is "a memory of us?", because it almost sounded to me like an ultimatum - Cloud's family or Aerith and Zack. Then I found out an alternate translation the original Japanese version of that line was something like "why do we have to lose out to memories", which I think made it a bit clearer she was trying to get Cloud to let go of his past in general, not just Aerith and Zack. Which is still harsh but less so, while the "memory of us" way it was phrased didn't sit well with me.
The thing is, Cloud's memories play a huge part of who he is. With the Dissidia dialogue and CoL it almost reminds me of Kingdom Hearts, how big a role memories play in explaining him and Sephiroth. I don't think he'll ever fully put his past behind him, one way or the other I think he'll always have Sephiroth's shadow over him. But that's fine - just because you can't leave your past behind, doesn't mean you can't live with it. And that's what Cloud does - he doesn't forget his past, he remembers it and lives for the present.

What Tifa's saying to Cloud is to stop living in the past, being a pain in the ass, and live on with the present. She's not saying that he can't completely forget about Aerith and Zack and be with Tifa, but what Cloud was doing in the movie was angsting over his memories, and Tifa does what wants best for him. Hence the line, 'dilly dally shilly shally.' He wasn't forgiving himself, and Tifa stating, "a memory or us," only comes to serve that Cloud was living in the past, all these feelings of guilt for Aerith and Zack basically making him emo.
While I agree with this, I think you and I can both state that what Tifa did into saying, "a memory or us," does NOT MEAN that she wants Cloud to completely forget about his past. She's trying to get him to stop angsting and feeling guilt over his past, not forget about Aerith and Zack altogether. While one can remember their memories, it's no good feeling guilt over the past.

 

[Celes Chere]

Which is still harsh but less so, while the "memory of us" way it was phrased didn't sit well with me.

Hm, interesting. I never saw this line as harsh, I felt it was her way of asking Cloud if he's going to beat himself up and dwell in his past mistakes forever, or actually try and live and be a part of the family. I don't think Tifa would ever suggest that Cloud forget about Zack and Aerith. I also agree with Nin's: "Coincides with his line of "I will never be just a memory." IMO, of course."

And speaking of KH2, I absolutely loved Tifa telling off Sephiroth. >=)
The "But in a place you can't reach" line, is my favorite part of that scene.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I don't know if she means he must forget Aerith and Zack, it seems more like she's telling him to stop fearing Sephiroth since he's just a memory. Coincides with his line of "I will never be just a memory." IMO, of course.

Agreed. Cloud's line "stay where you belong" shows he's ready to let his past be the past and live his life. His, Sephiroth and Tifa's dialogue all go together quite well for showing that.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Same, lol. In KH2 I was like "is she stalking him now or something?"

Funny, I never thought that. I thought: "Typical Cloud behavior", and even more so when it became clear what Tifa represents.

As to the "Memory or us" speech Tifa gave, I felt it was way too light. I can't believe how many people call it harsh. I would have been like: "Look, fucker, after all the shit we've been through, all the pieces of you I've had to pick up and piece back together--you're gonna send Reno and Rude out to look for our kids? Kids you left me shackled with to care for on my own, by the way. Well, I say: Bullshit. Now, here's what you're gonna do Emo-kid. You're gonna slip on your big girl panties, get over your own insecurities and kick some bad guy ass, or so help me you are never getting any of my ass again! We clear?"

But...that may just be me again.

 

[Celes Chere]

Tifa wanted to help Cloud, not make him cry, FHS. xD

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Funny, I never thought that. I thought: "Typical Cloud behavior", and even more so when it became clear what Tifa represents.

As to the "Memory or us" speech Tifa gave, I felt it was way too light. I can't believe how many people call it harsh. I would have been like: "Look, fucker, after all the shit we've been through, all the pieces of you I've had to pick up and piece back together--you're gonna send Reno and Rude out to look for our kids? Kids you left me shackled with to care for on my own, by the way. Well, I say: Bullshit. Now, here's what you're gonna do Emo-kid. You're gonna slip on your big girl panties, get over your own insecurities and kick some bad guy ass, or so help me you are never getting any of my ass again! We clear?"

But...that may just be me again.

0_0

Cloud: "Well, Tifa....that was certainly a bit more direct than usual."

 

[Isabella]

LOL. You and I are on the same page, FHS.

 

[Goodbye Charlie]

Wait, so let me get this right: LO isn't canon, but it's official? Because LO does appear in their character profiles.

Going back a bit (as I don't think our resident Clerith needs another person countering), I do find this an interesting and common standpoint.

Does one have to be singular continuity? I think from what I read, I think LO and FF7 are like food dishes, both the same dish with a slightly different emphasis on flavours - one dish is salty, the other is more tangy. Basically, each story is emphasising different ingredients for intended effect. Neither is wrong, both just use the characters and story to create different nuances of drama.

I guess all you can do is choose which you prefer.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'd say her absolute devotion to Cloud is almost a fault. She puts up with far too much crap from the guy.

Eh, what crap? He's not bad to her or anything. He's screwed up but honestly, give him a break. If you spent almost your entire adolescence in a test tube, had no friends or educational experience and were in a vegetative state for those 4 years, AND couldn't remember who you were..

You'd be pretty relationship/socially awkward too.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

LOL. You and I are on the same page, FHS.

Page 22?

YES!

 

[null.]

Eh, what crap? He's not bad to her or anything. He's screwed up but honestly, give him a break. If you spent almost your entire adolescence in a test tube, had no friends or educational experience and were in a vegetative state for those 4 years, AND couldn't remember who you were..

You'd be pretty relationship/socially awkward too.

Abandoning her to raise two children they inherited together - one terminally ill - without so much as an apology is crap.

 

[Isabella]

It's not about Cloud being awkward. I'm sympathetic to that. It's about him abandoning her without a word, about him refusing to go after their kids who are in danger, etc.

 

[Celes Chere]

And he could have at least returned her phone calls.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Again, I'll mention the extenuating circumstances...but yes, even so, even the most patient person in the world would feel frayed and worn. You love a man, that you know loves you but is suddenly distant, you're falling in love with a child you know is dying that HE brought to you, and you're expected to be all smiles and "You can do it!".

Hell no.

 

[Ryushikaze]

The reason Cloud's hesitance (not refusal) to go save the kids is because he was worried he wouldn't be up to the task of saving them, a notion that did turn out to be true, but the point was that he couldn't be worried about not being able to do anything, since it meant, in the end, he couldn't do anything even if he tried.

As for leaving Tifa and the kids, if he is doing so as to throw himself into his work to find a cure as ACC tried to imply, it's excusable, but still not quite acceptable.

As for 'Memory or us/ lose to a memory', the memory is of losing those he cares about, and being afraid of someone like Sephiroth coming back to take them away. There's a reason his final line is a threat about never being just a memory.

 

[A]

But you know, if Tifa WERE to leave him, Cloud would just...

 

[crack]

ASPLODE!

 

[Tennyo]

That Reptar smiley works just perfect for that. XD

But anyway yes agree. I do wonder what Cloud would be like if Tifa ever did decide to kick him to the curb. Hopefully he's learned his lesson and won't do stuff like that anymore. :/

 

[Makoeyes987]

Abandoning her to raise two children they inherited together - one terminally ill - without so much as an apology is crap.

He was trying to find a cure for Denzel when he left and was researching hard to figure out a way to save him, and not only that he got Geostigma while gone. And yeah, he did apologize in ACC.

 

[A]

But anyway yes agree. I do wonder what Cloud would be like if Tifa ever did decide to kick him to the curb. Hopefully he's learned his lesson and won't do stuff like that anymore. :/

If something did happen to her, he'd probably blame himself again, especially because it can kinda relate to him.

 

[null.]

He was trying to find a cure for Denzel when he left and was researching hard to figure out a way to save him, and not only that he got Geostigma while gone. And yeah, he did apologize in ACC.

I haven't seen ACC. All I know is what's on the front page (and the changes summary doesn't mention the apology). I still gather that he still slunk out without leaving a note, and never returns any phone calls. That's a dick move and pretty much unjustifiable for someone supposedly motivated by a noble purpose. I'm glad they had him apologize, but it still qualifies as giving Tifa crap.