The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[DrakeClawfang]

You do realize that Aerith literally has to strong arm him if he does get the date with her?

So do the other three dates.

I thought of a question, to ask, just to see what replies it may get....let's say Aerith didn't die. Let's say Cloud pulled her out of the way and saved her, and she never died and was alive for the events of the game and even AC/ACC....

How do you think Cloud's relationships with her and Tifa may have developed if Aerith had survived?

I think it's pretty clear there's chemistry between Cloud and Aerith in the first disk, before her life is cut short. But if she survived that disaster, she and Cloud probably would have gotten closer. For the sake of I'm too lazy to think of a plausible alternate chain of events, Cloud still goes into the Lifestream and Tifa restores Cloud to his true self. Beyond that in the timeline, how would Cloud's relationships with them go?

 

[Celes Chere]

let's say Aerith didn't die. Let's say Cloud pulled her out of the way and saved her, and she never died and was alive for the events of the game and even AC/ACC....

How do you think Cloud's relationships with her and Tifa may have developed if Aerith had survived?

That almost needs to be a new topic entirely, imho. Also, I'll think about it and edit this with a response, most likely.

Edit:
I agree with Ali, the real Cloud has been shown to have feelings for Tifa. I don't think Aerith (especially with the idea that she's not fully over Zack in mind) and Cloud would have ever worked out, even if she had lived. Tifa would still be the only one to enter Cloud's subconscious, though I'm not entirely sure if the HW scene would still take place.

 

[A]

So do the other three dates.

I wouldn't consider Barret as a date. And also, I was coming to the statement of which Aerith promised Cloud a date. If he agreed, I don't think he would need to be strongarmed.

How do you think Cloud's relationships with her and Tifa may have developed if Aerith had survived?

The real Cloud is shown to have feelings for Tifa. It seems clear enough in the LS/Highwind scene, and there are statements to back it up, such as Cloud and Tifa revealing their mutual feelings for each other.

 

[Vendel]

I thought of a question, to ask, just to see what replies it may get....let's say Aerith didn't die. Let's say Cloud pulled her out of the way and saved her, and she never died and was alive for the events of the game and even AC/ACC....

How do you think Cloud's relationships with her and Tifa may have developed if Aerith had survived?

Honestly seeing how Cloud wasn't "Cloud" during the time he knew her I don't see how a relationship between the two could have worked.

So let's say that for some reason Cloud decides to start a relationship with Aerith. Even though he had shown no real romantic interest before.

Do you propose that Aerith would consider it healthy to continue to feed his delusion? She would decide it's fine to love a lie?

Bah...the only way a true love triangle could have happened is if the game played out the same. Cloud going batty and falling into tlifestream and sans Aeriths death. And before that he would have to fall in love with Aerith. And she decides it's fine to live that lie. But after regaining his memory he would still be obsessed with Tifa. And that would just be a cluster fuck.


So no I don't think it would have worked out.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Honestly seeing how Cloud wasn't "Cloud" during the time he knew her I don't see how a relationship between the two could have worked.

So let's say that for some reason Cloud decides to start a relationship with Aerith. Even though he had shown no real romantic interest before.

Do you propose that Aerith would consider it healthy to continue to feed his delusion? She would decide it's fine to love a lie?

Bah...the only way a true love triangle could have happened is if the game played out the same. Cloud going batty and falling into tlifestream and sans Aeriths death. And before that he would have to fall in love with Aerith. But after regaining his memory he would still be obsessed with Tifa. And that would just be a cluster fuck.

So no I don't think it would have worked out.

I think you misunderstood the question. Aerith survives and Cloud's relationship with her continues to develop alongside his relationship with Tifa. I'm not asking if he fell in love with her or had a relationship with her before her death, I'm asking what would happen if she never died at all.

 

[Vendel]

I think you misunderstood the question. Aerith survives and Cloud's relationship with her continues to develop alongside his relationship with Tifa. I'm not asking if he fell in love with her or had a relationship with her before her death, I'm asking what would happen if she never died at all.

I thought I answered that?

Best case scenario is that she tries to get to know the real Cloud and he snaps out of his delusion. But guess what all those feelings for tifa come rushing back in.

Or more likely she would press him and he would go batshit again and events would play out the same as in the game.

What I am saying is that I find it highly unlikely that a relationship between the two could have lasted through the game. Let alone after and into AC.

Once Cloud regains his true identity Aerith would either step aside or it would become a tangled mess.

 

[A]

Hypothetical questions don't necessarily matter in my opinion. It'd be like me asking what would happen if Cloud and Aerith had a baby. There are tons of possibilities/interpretations for that, and really, none of them can be proven as true unless it happens.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Pretty much, since Cloud has defined his true identity around Tifa, it's pretty much impossible to imagine her not being the centre of his existence when he comes to his senses again. So yeah, whatever happened with Aerith while he was under Jenova's control, it might've made things awkward later, but it wouldn't have changed Cloud's actual feelings. I don't really see the outcome of the LT being any different.

 

[Loxetta]

Just throwing something in here because it's bugging me (yes, I know it's a little late -- I compose slow )

"bursting into laughter with her, "

When he makes fun of her while Jenova's in control. Next.

So I was playing through this part just tonight, and the way it goes is that the two are on the Church roof, and Aerith makes a comment that maybe the Turks think she has what it takes to be in SOLDIER. Then they start traversing debris and she can't keep up with Cloud, and once he holds up and waits for her, he makes the crack of "Thought you were cut out to be SOLDIER?" and she says "Oh you're terrible!" and they both laugh. Way I see it, it's not so much him making fun of her as it is a friendly jab between two people comfortable enough with eachother to not take it seriously.
But that's just me.

 

[Celes Chere]

They're flirting. Too bad it was with Jenova, though. >XD

 

[Loxetta]

Wait, "with Jenova"? The false personality he presents during Disc 1 was Jenova's? That wasn't in the cliff notes *must have missed that*

Not that that was really my point, anyway. XD My point was that it was friendly, no matter who was talking. A couple of the responses to it the last few pages seemed to be making it out that Cloud was being snide or purposefully rude.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Minor note: Barrett does not have to force Cloud out of the room. Cloud simply relents and heads out without Barrett moving him.

But yes, if Cloud had actually agreed to the date (If you watch the scene, BTW, he waves his hand in front of his nose and his head seems to move back and forth slightly), one would expect him to not need to be shoved out of his room.

As for had Aerith lived, it's all over once he recovers his true self and recalls everything that was bearing beneath the surface.
I repeat- HIS HEART CALLED OUT TO TIFA in the lifestream, just as Tifa's called out to him.
Aerith is a lovely girl, but her only chance with Cloud is with Tifa out of the picture, or them never learning of the mutual feelings, and I just don't see her as being the type to deny Cloud and Tifa the chance if she even gets a whiff of it. She can be selfish at times, but she's not a heartless bitch.

 

[Vendel]

As for had Aerith lived, it's all over once he recovers his true self and recalls everything that was bearing beneath the surface.
I repeat- HIS HEART CALLED OUT TO TIFA in the lifestream, just as Tifa's called out to him.

Called out in friendship......can't forget the most important part. You know it is important because it was never shown.

and I just don't see her as being the type to deny Cloud and Tifa the chance if she even gets a whiff of it. She can be selfish at times, but she's not a heartless bitch.

That is how most people would see it. But then again when has character assassination/mutilation ever stopped a devo?

 

[Goodbye Charlie]

Wait, "with Jenova"? The false personality he presents during Disc 1 was Jenova's? That wasn't in the cliff notes *must have missed that*

Not that that was really my point, anyway. XD My point was that it was friendly, no matter who was talking. A couple of the responses to it the last few pages seemed to be making it out that Cloud was being snide or purposefully rude.

As I recall it was purposefully rude - which is why it was mentioned in the official media; because the trait was not that of Cloud, but evidence of Jenova's power over Cloud which, let's face it, isn't the type just to share a flirty gag with a girl. I don't really see the point of it being referenced if the whole point of Jenova's involvement was to just simply flirty in a different way to Cloud.

It's been a while since I've played that segment (a long while) and a long time since I studied the texts, but I really wouldn't see the sense in Jenova being highlighted in Cloud's motivations by the official source guides for anything other than a negative attribute.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

I see the laughing with Aerith thing is still in question. Let's examine for a moment how Cloud is--at least initially-- in FFVII. He says quite up front "I don't care what your names are," so rudeness isn't exactly foreign to Jenova influenced Cloud. The comment "I thought you were cut out for SOLDIER." delivered in Cloud's typical, flat manner is mocking and rude, but Aerith, having known the guy for five minutes and having just been saved by him and well--being Aerith (Let's not forget how she is with Barret later at the GS "It's best to be be normal") wouldn't let that bother her. So she'd laugh it off.

Also the hypothetical "What if Aerith lived" question is possibly the most ridiculous on the thread. One, because it's irrelevant. She didn't. She died. But it could be countered with "What if Zack had lived, what if Tifa had died, what if Sephiroth fell in love with the Moogle Cait rides on..." I mean, come on. That's what fanfiction is for, because the answer will depend greatly on how you viewed the game. I, for one, never saw romatic interest in Aerith from Cloud so therefore, if she lived NOTHING changes. Cloud and Tifa aren't the secondary relationship, and I see way too many Clerith's ignore that. The story was NEVER about Aerith and Cloud. Ever.

It was about Sephiroth's madness, revenge, and saving the Planet through a hero who wasn't a hero. Now if you go to the roots of the story, Cloud's roots, you discover once again that everything for him begins and ends with Tifa.

 

[Fighter]

Why is him laughing with Aerith so important?

 

[Purple]

It's not.

Anyway, does Cloud share a room with Tifa?

I remember back during the ACF days that someone said they do.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Why is him laughing with Aerith so important?

It supposedly shows romantic interest.

 

[I Am Not Me]

Why is him laughing with Aerith so important?

Because him laughing while he's all crazy is moar romantic than all the other smiles he gives Tifa.








But in truth, I really wonder about that myself. I think it's a Clerith defense mechanism, because they know Tifa is on the receiving end of Cloud's smile thus they rebut with Cloud laughing with Aerith and make it oh-so-important, regardless of the fact that Cloud was out of his mind then, because laughing is just more special than gentle, loving smiles.

 

[Fighter]

I remember back during the ACF days that someone said they do.

It's not clear.

But in truth, I really wonder about that myself. I think it's a Clerith defense mechanism, because they know Tifa is on the receiving end of Cloud's smile thus they rebut with Cloud laughing with Aerith and make it oh-so-important, regardless of the fact that Cloud was out of his mind then, because laughing is just more special than gentle, loving smiles.

I just don't think it matters if Cloud was himself or not. They had a laugh... and? The reason the Tifa one is important is not because of the smile itself, it's because he is telling her he wants to spent his life together and she catches him blush.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Gotta say the replies I got weren't even close to what I expected. Once Cloud recovered his true self, he'd want nothing to do with Aerith?

I don't think it'd be that simple. Sure, Cloud would remember his feelings for Tifa, but any feelings he would have developed for Aerith until that point wouldn't just vanish. I think it'd be fair to say he may eventually love both of them had his relationships with them both continued.

Other than the LT, I'd like Aerith to have survived simply because of where the party went right after he death - Icicle Inn. There could have been a very touching and interesting scene there in Gast's old lab as Aerith watched those tapes.

 

[namakemono]

Gotta say the replies I got weren't even close to what I expected. Once Cloud recovered his true self, he'd want nothing to do with Aerith?

Of course he'd still want something to do with Aerith. He's not some cold hearted unthankful guy. He cares for her. It's obvious from his grief for her. He wanted to protect her and he felt guilty that he wasn't able to do so. She was important to him, just like Zack and any other friend. He treasures Aerith, but it doesn't mean it's anything romantic.

I don't think it'd be that simple. Sure, Cloud would remember his feelings for Tifa, but any feelings he would have developed for Aerith until that point wouldn't just vanish. I think it'd be fair to say he may eventually love both of them had his relationships with them both continued.

Wait, did he even have feelings for Aerith to begin with?

And yes, IF she did live on, maybe he would develop something, I mean, you never now, we are talking about "What-ifs". Hell if Zack survived I'd say he might've been the one to beat Sephiroth .lol. But anyway, from what I see from what the game has shown me, it was and would always be Tifa. It's presented so many times in the compilation. Sure he cared for Aerith, but Tifa was the girl he had a crush on, his inspiration to be a famous Soldier. She was who his heart was calling out to. She was the one he opened up to.

lol. Forgive me. I'm sleepy but I couldn't resist.

 

[fainessae]

I really hate to bust bubbles in what's a purely hypothetical scenario, but let's actually take a look at Cloud's interactions with Tifa + Aerith in disc one: They're roughly equal, as far as Cloud's treatment of both goes. Cloud's treatment of Aerith on disc one is not "more" affectionate than Tifa--he treats them equally, tries to protect them equally. For every example you have of Cloud showing affection for Aerith, you can match it with Tifa.

So, if Aerith lived, we can assume that this "roughly equal" treatment of each would continue. Then we'd have the lifestream sequence, when it would reveal that Cloud's entire being revolves around Tifa's approval/thoughts of him. Thus we would have Cloud's treatment of Tifa and Aerith being equal, with Tifa now having the additional edge of being his first love that he never got over.

Tifa still would be the undisputed love interest. This would be the equivalent of the "Ragnarok" scene in FF8 (which crushed any dreams of any pairing for Squall other than Rinoa) or the kiss scene of FF10--regardless of whether you were nicer to Yuna, Lulu, or Rikku, Tidus still chooses Yuna. The Lifestream sequence, in a story where Aerith's death didn't happen, would be the same as these other two pivotal scenes, because it holds and serves the same function--cementing the relationship of the final couple before the end of the story. The end result would be the same, regardless of Cloud's affection for Aerith prior to this scene. The other love interest just doesn't get the guy, and the story moves on.

And a side note, but Cloud sees protecting Aerith as his responsibility because he "dragged her into a mess she wasn't involved in". (Of course, he always forgets that Aerith inserted herself into the mess quite willingly, but this is about Cloud's mentality rather than Aerith's.) This is the sole reason he is intent on protecting her--because she is an uninvolved party who was thrown into a conflict that had nothing to do with her. It has nothing to do with love/romance/romantic interest--Cloud protects her because he feels responsible for her. This is carried over to her death scene--when Aerith dies, Cloud has failed her. He failed the person he, the entire time, has considered an innocent bystander that he dragged into the whole mess. Had Coud not dragged her into the story, not fallen through her roof she (might) still be alive.

Hardly romantic, all things considering.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I really hate to bust bubbles in what's a purely hypothetical scenario, but let's actually take a look at Cloud's interactions with Tifa + Aerith in disc one: They're roughly equal, as far as Cloud's treatment of both goes. Cloud's treatment of Aerith on disc one is not "more" affectionate than Tifa--he treats them equally, tries to protect them equally. For every example you have of Cloud showing affection for Aerith, you can match it with Tifa.

So, if Aerith lived, we can assume that this "roughly equal" treatment of each would continue. Then we'd have the lifestream sequence, when it would reveal that Cloud's entire being revolves around Tifa's approval/thoughts of him. Thus we would have Cloud's treatment of Tifa and Aerith being equal, with Tifa now having the additional edge of being his first love that he never got over.

Tifa still would be the undisputed love interest. This would be the equivalent of the "Ragnarok" scene in FF8 (which crushed any dreams of any pairing for Squall other than Rinoa) or the kiss scene of FF10--regardless of whether you were nicer to Yuna, Lulu, or Rikku, Tidus still chooses Yuna. The Lifestream sequence, in a story where Aerith's death didn't happen, would be the same as these other two pivotal scenes, because it holds and serves the same function--cementing the relationship of the final couple before the end of the story. The end result would be the same, regardless of Cloud's affection for Aerith prior to this scene. The other love interests just don't get the guy, and the story moves on. The other love interest just doesn't get the guy, and the story moves on.

And a side note, but Cloud sees protecting Aerith as his responsibility because he "dragged her into a mess she wasn't involved in". (Of course, he always forgets that Aerith inserted herself into the mess quite willingly, but this is about Cloud's mentality rather than Aerith's.) This is the sole reason he is intent on protecting her--because she is an uninvolved party who was thrown into a conflict that had nothing to do with her. It has nothing to do with love/romance/romantic interest--Cloud protects her because he feels responsible for her. This is carried over to her death scene--when Aerith dies, Cloud has failed her. He failed the person he, the entire time, has considered an innocent bystander that he dragged into the whole mess. Had Coud not dragged her into the story, not fallen through her roof she (might) still be alive.

Hardly romantic, all things considering.

Though you're saying the same things as the other posters mostly, thank you for explaining your stance with detail.

 

[A]

Just wondering Drake, but what did you really expect? As I said, this is all just hypothetical. You can come up with tons of interpretations if Aerith had actually lived, and depending on who the person is, they'll have a different view from yours. Unfortunately, the only fact here is Aerith's death.