The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Isabella]

Anyone saying differently is a moron. Period.

Oh no, I've been exposed for the moron I am.

 

[Ryushikaze]

That shit's lit up like a lamppost, that's some creepy shit right there. If you looked down and the floor was suddenly all lampposting it up in your face, you'd be all, "shit, man, that's some creepy floor!"

I don't know where you lot were looking (oh wait, Tifa's chest), but it obviously wasn't the spooky floor.

Now I have to add music change to the stuff you wenches have spoiled for me. Leave me some surprises, plz.

Well, I didn't tell you that the music is now Hearts on Fi- Oops.

And yes, Teef, a lampost. It's less subtle than a sledgehammer

 

[Zee]

Snape Kills Dumbledore.

Fuck, now my life is over.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Anyone saying differently is a moron. Period.

Thanks for calling me a moron.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Fuck, now my life is over.

It's okay, Zee. Dumbledore still kills Harry.

And he and Ginny have several children together.

No, I'm not saying if that's gay Dumbledore or Dead Harry.

And I'm not sure 'romantic' is the best way to describe the glowy church floor bit. It's about the two of them, and their troubles, but it has more to do with the strain their family is under. The 'romantic' bits are elsewhere in the story, such as mere moments earlier with Cloud's worried rush to her, trampling the flowers in his rush to check on Tifa, . My point is simply that the scene really slaps you silly with lighting implements that Cloud and Tifa are in this entire thing together, that despite Cloud's locking himself away, he's still concerned about her and also the kids.

But yes, the focus of that scene is them being in it together, followed up in Tifa's lines in the kid's bedroom. Cloud's reaction to her injury, watching over her, that's really the romantic part. The 'Tao' itself really is about how they're in the struggle (the wolf) together.

 

[Isabella]

^That would be my point too. The music is certainly associated with Cloud and Tifa, but it isn't romantic sounding at all. It's tension-building music, emphasizing their inner and outer struggles in that moment.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

It's not that the glowy floor is romantic, hito. It's the imagery.
The framing, the way they are lying, the (new) music, the fact that we are told the staff busted theirs asses off so that Tifa & Cloud are made to complement each other.
Yeah, that's a fuckin sledgehammer considering there's no equivalent for Yuffie/Aeris/Barret.

I don't think that neutrality means that you can't see these things or where they point, even if the conclusion is C/T. It just means you can connect the dots (unless you're a Devotioner - then it just means you're rabid)

 

[null.]

Nibelheim theme? I'm only aware of one Nibelheim theme and it's associated with... Nibelheim. (And the train graveyard.)

What a random choice...

 

[Zee]

^ tbh I thought some of the soundtrack was kind of out of place anyway. My friends and I giggled over the piano version of the fight theme. Pretty rendition, but totally did not feel like something you should be listening to as people are getting their ass beat.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

I thought it was supposed to be jarring.

 

[kelly20]

Whoa.. so many posts

Anyways, I never even thought there was still debate on the LTD, until the internetz.... everywhere I go, its either Cloud loved Tifa or that he moved on with Tifa....I mean come on, if your not a shipper, the assumption is that Cloud moved on with Tifa/was with Tifa....

I agree that arguments that he DID love Aerith are not crazy, however, arguments that he STILL loves her now, wants to be with her now, won't move on from her, are crazy.. I don't understand, these opinions make Cloud a pathetic bastard and makes me feel sorry for him, he deserves to have love/happiness in his life... and don't give me that bullshit he's happy that shes still "with" him in his heart... that doesn't make any sense..Its very painful to have your loved one dead, while you live on, ALONE.. I don't care what anyone says, if he loved Aerith that much, he would commit suicide, not live/raise kids with Tifa... and even if he continues to love Aerith, why can't he be with Tifa? Why not?

Plus, C/A never were never even a couple so where did this devotion happen...

I think that its never about who Cloud loved more/wants to be with, its always a Aerith vs. Tifa thing.....

I have seen that most C/A shippers have Aerith as their favorite character.. and many of them don't like Tifa.... this is not a generalization on my part, this is ALWAYS what I've seen...I mean seriously, how many AERITH bashers do you see? Rare, if ever, but Tifa gets a lot, and most (all?) of them are C/A fans....

Also, the last few pages were about proving how Aerith does love Cloud, and like all other debates on this LTD nothing SPECIFIC on Clouds side loving Aerith..

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I'm not a Tifa basher at all. Tifa's awesome, I just don't think Cloud loves her is all.

 

[kelly20]

I'm not a Tifa basher at all. Tifa's awesome, I just don't think Cloud loves her is all.

No, I meant MOST don't like Tifa from what I have seen.. you haven't seen it at the C/A forum?

and I never quite understood why at many LTD debates some pretended to like Tifa 0_0
Was I the only one who saw this? (not aiming this at you Drake )

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Again, I do. And I know several other Cleriths do as well. Sadly it seems you met a few bad ones.

 

[Isabella]

So Drake, how do you interpret the beginning of CoT, when Cloud says he and Tifa will be together in a way that's different from the way they were together before? How do you interpret him blushing while telling her he'll be there for her?

 

[kelly20]

Again, I do. And I know several other Cleriths do as well. Sadly it seems you met a few bad ones.

No, I never said they were bad, they just don't like Tifa.. hence why they prefer C/A...

 

[DrakeClawfang]

No, I never said they were bad, they just don't like Tifa.. hence why they prefer C/A...

.........I'm just gonna give up.

So Drake, how do you interpret the beginning of CoT, when Cloud says he and Tifa will be together in a way that's different from the way they were together before? How do you interpret him blushing while telling her he'll be there for her?

It's sweet, and a good idea, Tifa can be there to support him. But it seems that doesn't pan out. For someone who says he can start a new life together with Tifa, he seems to spend a great deal of the novella *away* from her.

 

[Isabella]

And to you this is due to a lack of love on his part?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Just because someone is your emotional support doesn't mean you love them. Sometimes when I get depressed or in a bad mood I got to the Final Fantasy Wiki IRC channel to chat with the other members and cheer up. It doesn't mean I'm in love with them.

Or was that at the second part of my comment about him leaving? I think Cloud grew distant because as Tifa herself suspects, the family he had with her and Marlene wasn't enough for him. Cloud just had to go off and deal with some stuff on his own. I understand that. I mean, I'm no expert on relationships but I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that sometimes you have to handle things on your own. And sometimes, it's not that you have to, you just want to. Ultimately though, I suspect only Cloud knows the real reason why he kept leaving.

My turn - how do you interpret Cloud moving into and living in Aerith's church after he leaves?

 

[Isabella]

But you had alluded to the fact that he was gone for a lot of the novella as evidence of something. Is it your position that it's evidence he doesn't love her? And you didn't really address the question of why it's "different" now, when they were together as friends (and she was there to support him) before. What's different now?

 

[Celes Chere]

But Drake, when you talk to those people when you're depressed, ask yourself this:
-Are they the only person in your life you've opened your heart to?
-Did you say life would be okay, as long as they were by your side?
-Did you say you wanted to start a new life with them?
-Are any of them one of the people that understand you more than anyone?

Point is, Cloud only opened his heart to Tifa- it's a proven fact. He wants to start a new life with her, said she was always there for him, and she's the woman who understands him the most. Aerith has been shown as a Mother countless times throughout the compilation, while Tifa and Cloud receive their own keywords, hold a strong past and promise, were meant to live together as stated by SE, and are also a balance to one another. I believe this exceeds mere friendship. Especially since SE refers to Tifa as an important woman, aside from being Cloud's childhood friend.

My turn - how do you interpret Cloud moving into and living in Aerith's church after he leaves?

How do you feel about Cloud wanting to be with Tifa- FOR LIFE? O_o I think that beats the short down time he spent in Aerith's church, a very understandable place for him to stay considering his guilty heart.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

But you had alluded to the fact that he was gone for a lot of the novella as evidence of something. Is it your position that it's evidence he doesn't love her? And you didn't really address the question of why it's "different" now, when they were together as friends (and she was there to support him) before. What's different now?

Well if Cloud does love Tifa, his actions in CoT are a strange way to show it.

"It's different now". That is an interesting quote, except....what does he mean? Different from when? It's different now, compared to when and based on what? Let's look at the scene:

“Because this time it will be together with you, Tifa.”


"Haven't I always been together with you?"


"What I mean is kind of different."

Tifa says she's always been together with Cloud, except she hasn'. So do they mean she's always believed in him and been with him in spirit, and it's different now because she's there with him physically? Does she mean she was with him when he tried to start a new life in Midgar working as a mercenary and it's different now because he has his true personality back?



The quote could mean several things. It's like me saying "FF7 is a better game than the other one". Which other one, and better how?

 

[Isabella]

I suspect only Cloud knows the real reason why he kept leaving.

Cloud left because he was haunted by his own perceived failures. He feared he would repeat them.

My turn - how do you interpret Cloud moving into and living in Aerith's church after he leaves?

Aerith, as we've been told, has become the symbol of Cloud's failures, the very failures that drove a wedge between him and his family. It's appropriate, since he's seeking forgiveness from her, that he would go to a place where he feels he might be able to receive her forgiveness. But as we've been told, Cloud runs from comfort, not to it. He's caught in a state of self-loathing, and doesn't feel he deserves the happiness he's found.

Well if Cloud does love Tifa, his actions in CoT are a strange way to show it.

If Cloud loved Tifa as family or as a friend, wouldn't it still be a strange way to show it? Assuming his leaving has anything to do with her, that is. But as I mentioned above, it's not about her.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

But Drake, when you talk to those people when you're depressed, ask yourself this:
-Are they the only person in your life you've opened your heart to?
-Did you say life would be okay, as long as they were by your side?
-Did you say you wanted to start a new life with them?
-Are any of them one of the people that understand you more than anyone?

- Is Tifa Cloud's? No, he's also had close relationships with Zack, Aeris, hell he even has a few moments where he opens up to Sephiroth.
- Yes, Cloud did say that. So he must be a glutton for punishment if he keeps leaving.
- Again, if Cloud wants to start a new life with Tifa, why does he leave her? Nomura herself says "she's like any woman who's been left behind by a man". And yeah, Cloud did leave her.
- Tifa does understand Cloud a lot, yes. Understand him completely? No.

Aerith has been shown as a Mother countless times throughout the compilation.

So is Tifa - she takes care of Denzel and Marlene, she has a material bond with Cloud who is called a "big kid", and the "motherly" feelings in CoT, still there in the revised version I notice.

How do you feel about Cloud wanting to be with Tifa- FOR LIFE? O_o I think that beats the short down time he spent in Aerith's church, a very understandable place for him to stay considering his guilty heart.

Where is it stated how long Cloud stayed there? And yes, it is understandable, when you're grieving to go to a place connection to the person you're grieving for. Agreed entirely.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Basically, Cloud got paranoid that he was bad luck to everyone who was around him, because two of his closest friends died in his presence, the first one protecting him, the second one whom he had sworn to protect. So he left Tifa so that whatever danger chased him, wouldn't affect her. That's not him not wanting to be in Tifa's company, that's him suffering from poor self-image and not wishing to inflict an unfortunate fate on her. Not to mention, a large part of the reason he left was to find a cure for Geostigma also.

and of course Tifa doesn't understand Cloud completely. No one understands anyone completely, even themselves. People are too complex to be completely understood. It's still stated by the creators that Tifa understands Cloud better than anyone else in his life though, and that she's the only one he opens his heart to.