The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Goodbye Charlie]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I think the distinction between this "LTD" doesn't come from the actions of Cloud, Aeris or Tifa "Singing Spheres" Lockhart, but from the thematic perception.

If you see Final Fantasy VII as a romantic, blatant, simplistic Disney-esque world of innocent princesses, gallant knights, evil princesses and frogs with harbouring aristocratic homo-sapien dormant catyalzers - providing you have little to know understanding or interest in narrative logic, then I think you could see the tragic love between Cloud and Aeris being indicative of a tragic, grim fairy tale.

However, if you see Final Fantasy VII as a dark broken world, with few easy answers, few neat resolutions, filled with broken families, imperfect heroes and complicated adult themes - as well as having read the source books and garnered a rational understanding of narrative logic - then a difficult but certain romance between Tifa and Cloud seems obvious.

Question you should be asking yourself punks, is a) is Final Fantasy 7 made by SE or Disney, b) are you feeling lucky punk?

Well are you?

 

[Isabella]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

There's something familiar about Charlie ...

...

 

[Lily Ella]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Indeed, there is. I'm wondering if he's someone ~from our past~, and if someone here had extended an invite to him.

I could be wrong though. Question: do you have a fear of very large boobies?

BTW, has anyone found anyone who can tell us exactly how and where in the story do we see any ~love~ between Cloud and Aeris? There has to be 'love' before there can be a 'tragic love.' And how are they like the fairytale-esque anyway? I remember that when I was a kid, the hero was always brave, handsome, confident and suave. Cloud is... none of those things. Zack fits the role of handsome knight/prince/hero better.

 

[Purple]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Wow, last time I checked this thread it was 13 pages long, now it has ballooned to 29. Awesome!

[quote author=Lily Ella link=topic=53.msg3195#msg3195 date=1229855635]
There has to be 'love' before there can be a 'tragic love.' And how are they like the fairytale-esque anyway?
[/quote]

The closest thing they got to fairytale-esque was during the play on the Golden Saucer date. Then again that doesn't really count because that's only a make pretend scenario.

Can anyone give another scene in the game then?

 

[haichinamie]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Goodbye Charlie link=topic=53.msg3193#msg3193 date=1229854764]
I think the distinction between this "LTD" doesn't come from the actions of Cloud, Aeris or Tifa "Singing Spheres" Lockhart, but from the thematic perception.

If you see Final Fantasy VII as a romantic, blatant, simplistic Disney-esque world of innocent princesses, gallant knights, evil princesses and frogs with harbouring aristocratic homo-sapien dormant catyalzers - providing you have little to know understanding or interest in narrative logic, then I think you could see the tragic love between Cloud and Aeris being indicative of a tragic, grim fairy tale.

However, if you see Final Fantasy VII as a dark broken world, with few easy answers, few neat resolutions, filled with broken families, imperfect heroes and complicated adult themes - as well as having read the source books and garnered a rational understanding of narrative logic - then a difficult but certain romance between Tifa and Cloud seems obvious.

Question you should be asking yourself punks, is a) is Final Fantasy 7 made by SE or Disney, b) are you feeling lucky punk?

Well are you?
[/quote]

It's that one dude with highly elevated vocabulary! How are ya? You probably took AP literature in college/highschooooooool, didn't you?

 

[Shadowfox]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=anna link=topic=53.msg3140#msg3140 date=1229830798]
no whining Cleris (plural: Clerii?) makes this thread no fun then
[/quote]

You could always go to the fanfiction.net forum. There's an LTD rumbling there now. They're been at the "Koibito: Lover or Nice Girl?" stage for a while now.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I didn't know FF.net had a forum. But that's probably because I don't visit the site. But since I went looking for it

http://www.fanfiction.net/topic/23200/1134071/1/

But I don't think these people know what 'mean' actually means.

But since it's still on 'koibito means a lovely person', I'm not going to hold my breath.

For the record, I've asked about 3-4 people about it. All said the same thing, which is what I said before but cba to copypsta again But it wasn't 'a nice person'.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Tennyo link=topic=53.msg3159#msg3159 date=1229837890]
You know I sometimes wonder about this pairing. Cid was rather verbally abusive earlier in the game and Shera allowed herself to be a human punching bag. Then they get married... D:

Well, at least he named his new ship after her. But I guess Cid also comes to realize that Shera was right about the oxygen tank and that he was being a jerk during all the spaceship stuff.
[/quote]

I think it was his own unique way to show her his love and affection =D
If Shera didnt like him she could always poison his tea

Clerith `ll never give us ANY significant proofs of CloudAerith`s love.
Cloud nearly kissed Tifa in the flowerbed, but zomg! Aerith`s ribbon was watching over Cloud! Teh love!

 

[Fighter]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Welcome to old friend.

[quote author=hitoshura link=topic=53.msg3240#msg3240 date=1229866279]
I didn't know FF.net had a forum. But that's probably because I don't visit the site. But since I went looking for it

http://www.fanfiction.net/topic/23200/1134071/1/

But I don't think these people know what 'mean' actually means.

But since it's still on 'koibito means a lovely person', I'm not going to hold my breath.

For the record, I've asked about 3-4 people about it. All said the same thing, which is what I said before but cba to copypsta again But it wasn't 'a nice person'.
[/quote]

You have not eaten at Wacdonalds. : What are you even talking about?

 

[Madame Mayor]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

There's a lot of scenes but you guys played the game and didn't think so, so it would be a waste of time for me to point them out.I'll just said this when Cloud met Aerith the first thing he noticed were her eyes and he thought they were impressive. When he brought the flower from her she smiled and he thought it was worth the 1 gil that he payed just to see her smile. And that was only in their first meeting, then later on he described her smile as a flower, her laughter as innocent. All this time if he was in love with Tifa why was he paying so much attention to Aerith? I mean why would he agree to a date with a woman he has no interest in whatsoever? And when Aerith accidently blurted it out when they were captured by Shinra, Cloud didn't even bother to explain it to Tifa that it wasn't like that.

wtf?

 

[Fighter]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I want the mushrooms they are eating.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

There's a lot of scenes but you guys played the game and didn't think so, so it would be a waste of time for me to point them out.I'll just said this when Cloud met Aerith the first thing he noticed were her eyes and he thought they were impressive.

No. The first thing he noticed was that she was selling flowers.
SHE noticed his eyes, that's about it.

When he brought the flower from her she smiled and he thought it was worth the 1 gil that he payed just to see her smile.

You know what? You've never played the game, whoever you are. I said it.

And that was only in their first meeting, then later on he described her smile as a flower, her laughter as innocent. All this time if he was in love with Tifa why was he paying so much attention to Aerith?

Except none of that EVER HAPPENED.

I mean why would he agree to a date with a woman he has no interest in whatsoever?

He didn't. He turned to the Turks and addressed them instead.

And when Aerith accidently blurted it out when they were captured by Shinra, Cloud didn't even bother to explain it to Tifa that it wasn't like that.

Because he A: Did not care about the date, and B: was oblivious to the fact that Tifa had feelings for him.

wtf?

Just someone who has never played the fucking game making shit up.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I want the mushrooms they are eating.

=D

Honestly, I love it when Clerith claim that relationships of the past doesnt matter, meaning Crisis Core and Last Order had no impact on LT.

Why would SE even bother to display something unimportant or insignificant? Making games and anime with Cloti and Zerith scenes in them... Duh

Well, at least Cleriths got their `official` MOTP =D

 

[Isabella]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Person could be referring to Dismantling. Doesn't it say some of that stuff?

 

[Ryushikaze]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

If they are, Bella, they certainly aren't citing it.

I don't have that book, just snippets, so I must ask of someone who does, though I believe Rinoa does, if memory serves.

 

[Lily Ella]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

Rinoa has it, I'm sure.

their `official` MOTP

And what does that have? It has Aeris swooning over an image of Cloud that she created, and... when in Lifestream, Cloud did not hear Aeris, but heard Tifa. So ~*romantic*~!

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

And what does that have? It has Aeris swooning over an image of Cloud that she created, and... when in Lifestream, Cloud did not hear Aeris, but heard Tifa. So ~*romantic*~!

MOTP `proves` a lot of things, like `Aerith dont give a damn about Zack`, `Aerith loves Cloud`, `Cloud was left heartbroken when Aerith died` etc
Which Clerith generously use in their LT arguments.

 

[Lily Ella]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

It might "prove" that she didn't care about Zack as much as she used to (we could argue that she still did, because she 'fell in love' with another guy who had his personality & similar looks). Didn't prove that she loved Cloud much, since the Cloud that she's supposedly in love with is not the real Cloud. Cloud being heartbroken over her death doesn't mean prove anything romantic, because... gee, she was shiskabobbed in front of him. Who wouldn't be shattered?

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

There`re a great number of canon proofs against MOTP statements and most importantly - the novella was written by an outsider to please Cleriths (since the Compilation is Cloti and Zerith). Its fanservice pure and simple.

 

[pESCAbAdA]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

I don't even think MOTP is that Clerith. We see Aerith saying she loved Cloud more than Zack and then admitting she never really knew him. Then we see her helping Tifa to rescue Cloud in the Lifestream and giving them her blessing. Then Zack appears to her again and she's bitter, which makes sense considering the events of Crisis Core. She never heard from him after their promise and was in denial of his death, but as she interacts with him, you can see them falling into the same sort of relationship they had during CC. Even Zack's last words are "Doesn't it make you fall in love all over again." (That quote's from memory so correct me if I'm wrong.) And after he says that line, the next time we see her is in Advent Children, telling Cloud to move on and chillin with Zack in the Lifestream. To me, even MOTP points to Cloti and Zerith.

 

[Goodbye Charlie]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=haichinamie link=topic=53.msg3225#msg3225 date=1229861627]
It's that one dude with highly elevated vocabulary! How are ya? You probably took AP literature in college/highschooooooool, didn't you?
[/quote]

Not at all. I just hire out a glib tongue and a good dictionary from the House of Snark when slipping into the tight fitting teddy of the LTD.

Now if we can forget apparent unfearless attitude to lacto-balloons, let's have a look at MOTP.

....

Well I had a look - wasn't very good was it? However it's even worse when people subject it to bendo rays - those magical beams wrought from falling into a vat of lifestream acid, dark matter that eats away at the ability to read and digest a whole narrative leaving the sufferer with the super-power of mega-cherry picking.

It's simply a linear tale of character evolution, mapping out Aeris' initial love for Cloud as it was in FF7, and moving her to a very different place as she watches the twists in FF7 act play out. This results in giving her a very different picture of Cloud while the reader is gifted with the opportunity to see just how confused her feelings for Cloud were with her resentment of Zack - only aware of his disappearance and not the tragic reasons behind it.

How does this fit with BC? It doesn't. Get over it people-the-slight-may-concern. It's not even considered canon by the SE literature.

As far as I'm aware/care, anyhow.

Nice to be back people.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=Fighter link=topic=53.msg3250#msg3250 date=1229893698]
I want the mushrooms they are eating.
[/quote]

Actually, it's not mushrooms. All you need to do is take some yellow flowers... ANY will do, all yellow flowers will have the same affect. Wrap them tightly with a pink ribbon. Light up, and enjoy your pink fantasies.

MOTP isn't Clerith, is Cloti, and is reallyirrelevantwhen it comes to Zerith because the Maiden version of events states that they met when Aerith was 17, right before Zack left for Neibleheim, and that he was planning on starting a more serious relationship with her when he returned. From what Aerith says too, it sounds like he wasn't with her exclusively yet either.

All of this is flat out wrong, and doesn't really flow well with the original game either. Crisis Core just sealed Maiden's fate.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=pESCAbAdA link=topic=53.msg3271#msg3271 date=1229898799]
I don't even think MOTP is that Clerith. We see Aerith saying she loved Cloud more than Zack and then admitting she never really knew him. Then we see her helping Tifa to rescue Cloud in the Lifestream and giving them her blessing. Then Zack appears to her again and she's bitter, which makes sense considering the events of Crisis Core. She never heard from him after their promise and was in denial of his death, but as she interacts with him, you can see them falling into the same sort of relationship they had during CC. Even Zack's last words are "Doesn't it make you fall in love all over again." (That quote's from memory so correct me if I'm wrong.) And after he says that line, the next time we see her is in Advent Children, telling Cloud to move on and chillin with Zack in the Lifestream. To me, even MOTP points to Cloti and Zerith.
[/quote]

http://www.clerith.com/Grief.htm
Wish you good read

MOTP isn't Clerith, is Cloti

But a cry came through to her.

It wasn't the sound of her cry. If it was then she would have felt the blood gushing up through her throat and the fury that forced its way out from the depths of her soul - It was the sound of Cloud's heart cracking. It was the cry of his heart that could never be healed of the grief he had towards Aerith's death, the blame towards himself and the hatred he had for Sephiroth.

She was surprised at the great sorrow he had for her. She was a little happy that he thought so much of her but she also felt the pain that was many times greater. There was nothing she could do about Cloud's suffering and the pain ached in her heart.

~Maiden of the Planet

Teh proof for Cloud`s undying love for Aeris

 

[Madame Mayor]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

the blame towards himself

Exactly what every other source says. His sadness because of Aerith is about loosing a friend, and blaming himself for not protecting her.

And for his grief never healing and whatnot, Cloud sure doesn't even mention Aerith for a whole big chunk of the game after her death. They say a few things about having more reason to kick Sephy's butt, and then nothing until they are talking about Holy.

 

[Goodbye Charlie]

Re: Love Triangle Discussion

[quote author=spirit_chaser link=topic=53.msg3277#msg3277 date=1229899973]
But a cry came through to her.

It wasn't the sound of her cry. If it was then she would have felt the blood gushing up through her throat and the fury that forced its way out from the depths of her soul - It was the sound of Cloud's heart cracking. It was the cry of his heart that could never be healed of the grief he had towards Aerith's death, the blame towards himself and the hatred he had for Sephiroth.

She was surprised at the great sorrow he had for her. She was a little happy that he thought so much of her but she also felt the pain that was many times greater. There was nothing she could do about Cloud's suffering and the pain ached in her heart.

~Maiden of the Planet

Teh proof for Cloud`s undying love for Aeris
[/quote]

Is it? At best it shows that Cloud cared for her deeply at that point of time - some would argue romantically, depends on how you played the game, but really it only shows he cared very much for her - which no one denies.

In the long run though, this isn't even the real Cloud, but a confused Cloud, a failed Cloud and one who doesn't appear to continue any "undying love' for Aeris - unless shacking up with her best mate shortly after he's recovered his senses brings a new light on the term I was previously unaware of.

Of course, we know the guilt and pain of her loss was a constant from then on, as Advent Children really symbolises (but strangely, not her undying love - no symbolism for that. Odd).

But then, as has been said, MOTP was never considered officially canon and canon has never attempted to make room for it since it was written - so why look to it as proof of anything? If SE ignores it, shouldn't we? I think it's for the best, it really is a messy little tale.