The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Vendel]

And Vendel, seriously. Chill the fuck out. No need to tell her "F-you" dude. Be civil.

I'm completely calm. I can easily tell someone civilly to go fuck themselves.

 

[Hinata Hyuga]

She does say how similar they are, but then she goes on to say how they are two "completely different people". Then she goes on to say she wants to meet Cloud; imo, she saw a hint of who he really was and wanted to see more. Acknowledging they are different means she had to have seen something that was different.

Why would Aerith saying that she knows Cloud and Zack are two "completely different" people indicate that Aerith had any real insight into what made them so?

Does it really take anything other than common sense to observe that these two men cannot be the same person? Because they aren't?

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'm completely calm. I can easily tell someone civilly to go fuck themselves.

Seriously, cut this crap out. This isn't how you have a discussion and if you're going to be this abrasive over a damn discussion over a fictional pairing, maybe you need to take a time out. I'm not going to tell you or anyone else to remain civil here, again. I'll just start handing out warnings and suspensions. This shit's getting old.

Why would Aerith saying that she knows Cloud and Zack are two "completely different" people indicate that Aerith had any real insight into what made them so?

Pretty much this. People seem to read way too much into Aerith being able to tell something with Cloud was amiss. That doesn't mean she knows the real Cloud. That just means she knows he isn't who he said he was. There's no magic or special insight at work here.

 

[Zee]

Of course she wants to meet the real Cloud - but that's because she never actually got to meet the real Cloud. She knows that they're two completely different people, but how is it that Aerith is able to tell the difference between who's Cloud and who's Zack? She obviously can tell that he's not acting like himself, she just never had the chance to figure out who he actually was - Cloud says himself. That he was living in a disguise.

Here's the thing - it's fairly easy to tell when someone is acting strange, but I don't think you can tell if someone is acting like themselves unless you can tell what they act like normally.

Why would Aerith saying that she knows Cloud and Zack are two "completely different" people indicate that Aerith had any real insight into what made them so?

Because she would actually have to notice a difference before she went around claiming there was.

 

[Vendel]

Seriously, cut this crap out. This isn't how you have a discussion and if you're going to be this abrasive over a damn discussion over a fictional pairing, maybe you need to take a time out. I'm not going to tell you or anyone else to remain civil here, again. I'll just start handing out warnings and suspensions. This shit's getting old.

Why don't you chillax Seto.

 

[crack]

I'm thanking way too many people today...

Pretty much this. People seem to read way too much into Aerith being able to tell something with Cloud was amiss. That doesn't mean she knows the real Cloud. That just means she knows he isn't who he said he was. There's no magic or special insight at work here.

People seem to find the fact that when Aerith says, "I want to meet you," it means that she knows who Cloud is - but her desire to meet the real Cloud only signifies that she doesn't know the real Cloud. It can be regarded that she knew that Cloud wasn't acting like himself, and that he was acting like Zack. But even if Cloud was acting like himself, how would Aerith be able to differentiate between the two? Zack and Cloud are bound to have some similarities, and because she never knew Cloud before he had the Jenova cells injected to him, you can't say that she knew the real Cloud. Plus, the Jenova mimicking cells screwed over Cloud by making him come to closer contact with Aerith - thus, trying to kill her at one point. They want to abolish all Ancients. And not to mention, the mimicking cells caused him to mimic through the minds of others and copy off the memories they had of others, thus Cloud acting like Zack.

 

[A]

Here's the thing - it's fairly easy to tell when someone is acting strange, but I don't think you can tell if someone is acting like themselves unless you can tell what they act like normally.

Haven't you heard of someone acting like a fake, or disguising their real personality? It's not easy to tell who they really are when someone's acting like a fake, as there are tons of options to whom they can really be.

 

[Edley]

I think I'm going to recuse myself from this thread.

Cloud's with Tifa and Aerith's with Zack, IMO and I really don't feel like talking about it anymore.

 

[A]

I think I'm going to recuse myself from this thread.

Cloud's with Tifa and Aerith's with Zack, IMO and I really don't feel like talking about it anymore.

- Back together where they belong.

 

[Frostwave]

Woah, I accidentally posted one lone sentence from my reply(I cut a big part of it!!!), and then deleted it. I meant to edit.. Sorry, dudes. I'll just edit into this post...

Now to remember what I typed...

 

[A]

Frosty, I think you were responding to this post:

Because she would actually have to notice a difference before she went around claiming there was.

 

[Zee]

Cloud's with Tifa and Aerith's with Zack, IMO and I really don't feel like talking about it anymore.

Well the first part's true, at least.

Also

I just lost the game.


FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

 

[Alex Strife]

Piece of Script, scene at Gongaga:


Aerith
"What a shock..... I didn't know Zack was from this town."

Cloud
"You know him?"

(She turns to Cloud)

Aerith
"Didn't I tell you? He was my first love."


I think this solves the mystery

Cloud knew, since he remembers stuff from the time he was Zackified

 

[A]

Oh wow. *facepalms* I can't believe I actually forgot about that scene. Thanks Alex,

 

[Alex Strife]

You're welcome!

I wasn't completely sure Aeris had mentioned Zack's name, but then I thought: how come we knew they were toghether, if she hadn't mentioned?!

Additionally, I opened a script and simply searched for "Zack" on it, which eventually sent me there,

 

[Frostwave]

Because she would actually have to notice a difference before she went around claiming there was.

Ah well. I can't remember all of the other stuff, but about this one, what Aerith said didn't point to any deeper knowledge of Cloud than what the rest of AVALANCHE had.

 

[A]

Thanks again Alex.

So that brings us to another question: Does Tifa ever find out that Zack and Aerith were together? Or does she never find out? Is it never mentioned, like it was with Zack and Aerith?

Ah well. I can't remember all of the other stuff, but about this one, what Aerith said didn't point to any knowledge deeper of Cloud than what the rest of AVALANCHE had.

Exactly. I'm sure Tifa could tell that Cloud wasn't acting like himself as well - but the reason why Tifa and Aerith could tell that Cloud wasn't acting like himself was because:

With Tifa: She knew the old Cloud
With Aerith: She knew Zack, who he was acting like.

 

[Zee]

Does Tifa ever find out that Zack and Aerith were together? Or does she never find out? Is it never mentioned, like it was with Zack and Aerith?

I say yes. The girls often gossip together, and you can have Tifa in the Gongaga. Plus Tifa's just quicker on the uptake than Cloud.

Ah well. I can't remember all of the other stuff, but about this one, what Aerith said didn't point to any deeper knowledge of Cloud than what the rest of AVALANCHE had.

How so? I think her words on the date and in the dream sequence did show a deeper understanding of Cloud. Other characters like Barret and Yuffie think he's just being an asshole.

 

[Alex Strife]

Wow, thank you for thanking so much!!

Now this would need assumption.Two years have passed since FFVII, to FFVIIAC, and Tifa and Cloud have been living toghether, and we KNOW Cloud feels guilty about Zack and Aeris, wouldn't that lead to talking about it with Tifa? Wouldn't then make sense, during 2 years to talk about that? I believe that Tifa knows, but not so sure during FFVII...

EDIT: by the Gold Saucer scene, probably Aeris has realized Cloud is a lot like Zack, which makes her feel confused, and because he is SO much like Zack, she probably knows something's off.

On a random note, about Cait Sith's prediction...you know why he says they have a brilliant future and stuff? Because Cloud's still Zackified there!

 

[A]

How so? I think her words on the date and in the dream sequence did show a deeper understanding of Cloud. Other characters like Barret and Yuffie think he's just being an asshole.

Aerith never states that she knows who Cloud actually is, just that she wants to meet the real Cloud. Unless it shows that she comes to a full understanding that she knows who the real Cloud is, I'm afraid she never got to meet the real Cloud before she died. And even if she did meet the real Cloud before she died, she wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Cloud and Zack considering that they most likely did have a similarity or two. It's hard to tell who someone actually is when they're a fake.

Your welcome Alex.

 

[Zee]

Wouldn't then make sense, during 2 years to talk about that? I believe that Tifa knows, but not so sure during FFVII...

iirc in CoT while Cloud follows Tifa to mourn Aeris, he's too scared/ashamed/guilty to really talk about it with her.

And even if she did meet the real Cloud before she died, she wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Cloud and Zack considering that they most likely did have a similarity or two. It's hard to tell who someone actually is when they're a fake.

With Tifa: She knew the old Cloud
With Aerith: She knew Zack, who he was acting like.

My problem with this is, it's one thing to say, "Hey you act a lot like this guy I once knew" and it's another thing to say, "Hey, you act a lot like this guy I knew, but I know you're both very different." Like you said, they probably did have a similarity or two. Heck, on disk 3, Cloud jokes and does squat thrusts which could be a very "Zack like" thing if we didn't know any better. The only way to truly start separating them, as Aeris was starting to, was to notice a significant difference.

It could be something small like Cloud's awkwardness (that gets exploited at every turn), but that is a portion of the real Cloud and that would be enough to justify her acknowledgment on the date.

 

[A]

iirc in CoT while Cloud follows Tifa to mourn Aeris, he's too scared/ashamed/guilty to really talk about it with her.

That may be true, but Tifa is the only one that Cloud ever opened his heart too. Maybe he did eventually bring it up to her.

 

[Alex Strife]

True, but... not a single time in two years? I would have still thought he went around the lines of: oh, I feel guilty about Zack (how would Tifa know, otherwise?), and about Aeris, too. By the way, did you know they were bf/gf?

 

[Frostwave]

How so? I think her words on the date and in the dream sequence did show a deeper understanding of Cloud. Other characters like Barret and Yuffie think he's just being an asshole.

As for Barret, he got Cloud's history at the inn in Kalm. At least the whacked version.

I'm gonna go have a read of the date and dream sequence. brb. ^^

 

[A]

On a random note, about Cait Sith's prediction...you know why he says they have a brilliant future and stuff? Because Cloud's still Zackified there!

Well... there's that. And the fact that he's a robot who's a fake.