The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[megas_sephiroth]

some folks say that the entire scene was Cloud rejecting Tifa

Spoiler

there's a bible worthy essay just for that scene

. That's not true, but since they're so convinced of that I included it too.

For pete's sake, can you imagine:

Cloud: I kinda like the dead chick, so, yeah, it's not gonna happen between us. But we're cool right?

 

[Tennyo]

The creators said that they toned it down; for some they still did it, for others they did something but not sex and for other people it was Cloud rejecting Tifa. Now everyone should pick the one that makes more sense to them.

So long as they aren't raping the narrative and making claims that go against the story. Sex or no sex really isn't that important since the scene still has the same meaning no matter what. Cloud rejecting Tifa is quite different in that it goes against pretty much everything.

 

[A]

If Cloud rejected Tifa, he wouldn't be living with her. He wouldn't have said that he wanted to start a new life with her. If Cloud did reject her, it sounds as if Tifa's 'desperate' to have one more last time with Cloud... isn't obvious enough that what Tifa means is that they'll be fighting off Sephy-poo, so they'll never have this moment again because they might actually die in the battle? Tifa saying that in terms of 'having one last romantic moment with Cloud,' portrays Cloud as a bastard. As shown in this quote:

Tifa: Let me have this moment... it'll never come again...

Cloud: ....

And then there's the optional scenes - if Cloud was rejecting her, why would he say that his heart called out to Tifa? The optional scenes differ, but Cloud clearly shows no signs of wanting to reject Tifa. Is Cloud really such an idiot to let Tifa cling by his side as a sign of pity?

And there's the next morning where Cloud tries to cheer Tifa up; because they're off to fight Sephitroth. Instead, it's portrayed as Cloud trying to cheer Tifa up because she's been rejected - and AVALANCHE 'saw' Tifa get rejected, which is even more humiliating for Tifa. I doubt Square Enix would make Tifa look so pathetic. I mean, she gets rejected and yet she stays by her man? If she was rejected, Square Enix is just coming to make her look like a tragic character, which she obviously isn't one. Tifa is Cloud's catalyst. That should say more than enough.

 

[Tennyo]

That hardly jives with the traditional "eve before the battle let's pump ourselves up to do this," sort of thing. lol

 

[mentaz]

So long as they aren't raping the narrative and making claims that go against the story. Sex or no sex really isn't that important since the scene still has the same meaning no matter what. Cloud rejecting Tifa is quite different in that it goes against pretty much everything.

pretty much that, and the rejection part doesn't make sense at all. I mean if the guy you liked just rejected you, would you be snuggling next to him? that's pretty stupid if you ask me.

If Cloud rejected Tifa, he wouldn't be living with her. He wouldn't have said that he wanted to start a new life with her. If Cloud did reject her, it sounds as if Tifa's 'desperate' to have one more last time with Cloud... isn't obvious enough that what Tifa means is that they'll be fighting off Sephy-poo, so they'll never have this moment again because they might actually die in the battle? Tifa saying that in terms of 'having one last romantic moment with Cloud,' portrays Cloud as a bastard. As shown in this quote:

Tifa: Let me have this moment... it'll never come again...

Cloud: ....

And then there's the optional scenes - if Cloud was rejecting her, why would he say that his heart called out to Tifa? The optional scenes differ, but Cloud clearly shows no signs of wanting to reject Tifa. Is Cloud really such an idiot to let Tifa cling by his side as a sign of pity?

And there's the next morning where Cloud tries to cheer Tifa up; because they're off to fight Sephitroth. Instead, it's portrayed as Cloud trying to cheer Tifa up because she's been rejected - and AVALANCHE 'saw' Tifa get rejected, which is even more humiliating for Tifa.

I doubt Square Enix would make Tifa look so pathetic. I mean, rejection? Really?

Bad SE for making such clingy, pathetic and bastards characters.

seriously, I still fail to see where all that means rejection.

 

[megas_sephiroth]

Spoiler

If you add to all that, that they then went on to live together under the same roof, while raising two children, it really makes no sense.

Tifa would have to be incredibly stupid to accept something like that and Cloud would have to be a complete bastard.

 

[Ryushikaze]

The interesting thing with all the things you mentioned about Rejection!Tifa, is that's quite a lot of what hardline pinkers have and still do say about her. That she's stalking Cloud in KH2, that she's naggy, that she's clingy, despite the creators taking pains to try and make sure she wouldn't come off that way, etc, and all the other statements.

In a select few cases, I believe they have the rage they do because, well, deep down, they understand they lost. And just not in the argumentative sense, either. I'm speaking of the folks who wanted to BE Aerith, who self identified with her and wanted her to get Cloud because they were crushing on him, and were pissed off that she died and never came back, that the other girl got him.

Same with a lot of Zack haters, I'd bet.

I can't say that for all or even most of them, of course, but I've come across a few who fit that schema in my day, and they tend to be the most reactionary when the ship is threatened.

 

[paoo]

Spoiler

If you add to all that, that they then went on to live together under the same roof, while raising two children, it really makes no sense.

Tifa would have to be incredibly stupid to accept something like that and Cloud would have to be a complete bastard.

But u know, Tifa is such a stupid betch. She just wants to be with Cloud!!1 That's why he lives with her for tasty food and a warm bed.

NO U. What's the evidence for Cloud liking Tifa anyway? Let's see...

1. He was secretly in love with her when they were young.
2. He says it will be okay this time with his new life because he has Tifa.
3. He blushes infront of her.
4. He carresses her cheek.
5. He lets her sleep on his shoulder.
6. His desire is to be her hero.
7. He promised to rescue her whenever she was in danger.
8. He tried to save her from falling off a mountain.
9. He opened up his heart for Tifa, only.
10.

Spoiler

HE STOLE HER PANTIES!!!!!1

And some quotes:

With the support of former allies and Tifa, an important woman to him and now also part of his family, Cloud regains the courage to move forward.

A Promise to Tifa, Etched in his Memory.

He lifts a collapsed Tifa up in his arms, and upon seeing her aware of him, he smiles gently.

She and Cloud came to realize their feelings for each other in the end of the story, and live together in AC and DC.

 

[megas_sephiroth]

Is it just me, or everybody misunderstood me?

What makes no sense, to me, is the rejection theory. I meant that Tifa would not go live with Cloud if he rejected him and he would have to be a total jackass to even propose/accept such a deal.

 

[Isabella]

Over the years, I've seen some proponents of the rejection theory modify it into something like:

Cloud and Tifa have come to terms with the misunderstandings of their past, and the HW scene is where they affirm their friendship and agree to move forward as friends.

I have my own problems with this theory, but I'm curious what holes others spot in it?

 

[Cthulhu]

Hey guys, just something completely unrelated to the LTD for a bit. I just noticed that this thread is in the FFVII section, but its scope is spread over all the installments of the Compilation. As such, wouldn't this thread be more appropriate if it was in the Compilation General section?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Gosh that's some good spin. Bill O'Reilly would be impressed by it.

On another note, do you think this thread should be moved to the general Compilation section, or kept here in the FFVII one? Since this encompasses the entire compilation, I figure it should go in that section.

 

[megas_sephiroth]

I guess it would make more sense in the compilation section, seeing as nobody keeps to the original game.

 

[Isabella]

^LOL at admin repetition. Did it come up in the arrogant bastard thread or something?

I'm cool with it being moved. Just so you guys don't close our hundreds of pages of hard work.

 

[Tennyo]

lol You're right. I had forgotten what section this was in. lol

Yes, it would make more sense to move it.

 

[Vendel]

It's gotten 490 pages in the FF7 section. I think it's fine.

 

[Strangelove]

Is moved anyway

In other news, I once rejected someone with silence. And I regard it as one of the most bastardly things I've ever done

 

[megas_sephiroth]

@Isabella's:

I guess people tend to see what they want, even if it isn't there. There wasn't a rejection and one wouldn't make sense, especially before a battle that would decide the fate of their world.

 

[Cthulhu]

Actually, I think this thread is complete and utter bollocks, considering TxA is canon and all, ergo,

Spoiler: *shut*

*moved*,

.

 

[Isabella]

Is moved anyway

In other news, I once rejected someone with silence. And I regard it as one of the most bastardly things I've ever done

Did you cuddle up with her/him til morning afterward?

 

[Strangelove]

Actually, for a little bit, I did

 

[Vendel]

Over the years, I've seen some proponents of the rejection theory modify it into something like:

Cloud and Tifa have come to terms with the misunderstandings of their past, and the HW scene is where they affirm their friendship and agree to move forward as friends.

I have my own problems with this theory, but I'm curious what holes others spot in it?

Maybe they 'modified' it to make Tifa seem less pathetic and Cloud less of a bastard.

But wasn't the quote about that scene they "confirm their mutual feelings"? Didn't they already know they were friends?

 

[Isabella]

I'm curious what Tifa and Cloud were so embarrassed about the next morning if they somehow confirmed their friendship without words. (How does that work, anyway? Bear hug?)

Actually, for a little bit, I did

I knew you were gonna say that.

 

[Frostwave]

(How does that work, anyway? Bear hug?)

Sounds like an animu nod to me. Yup. ^^

You know that little nod anime characters do when there's been some sort of realization, or some big crap just went down? Two characters will look at each others faces for like eight seconds and then nod(sometimes in unison. O.o).

That's how. I think.

 

[Eerie]

They moved from friends to sex friends, obviously

But seriously, yes, even the friendship thing does mean jack, because hey, that's what happens during the Lifestream scene anyway!!!!