The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Ryushikaze]

Is it just me, or everybody misunderstood me?

What makes no sense, to me, is the rejection theory. I meant that Tifa would not go live with Cloud if he rejected him and he would have to be a total jackass to even propose/accept such a deal.

We all agree, and understand, MS. We were just elaborating.

Over the years, I've seen some proponents of the rejection theory modify it into something like:

Cloud and Tifa have come to terms with the misunderstandings of their past, and the HW scene is where they affirm their friendship and agree to move forward as friends.

I have my own problems with this theory, but I'm curious what holes others spot in it?

How is 'affirming their mutual friendship' in any way risque? How do you have trouble finding the right words to tell someone 'I wanna be your buddy?' How do you tell them, without words, of your buddyhood desire?

And why do you talk about starting a new life with them by your side (differently than before), raise kids, etc. as just buddies?

Narratively, it make-a no sense. When you reject a long understood fictive narrative of man and woman living in a house by themselves together (ie- no other grownups) and raising kids together = couple, especially when you've told us before and never negate them having feelings for each other, you have to be far more explicit that what we see is not a relationship of romantic partners, but of buddy buddies.

 

[mentaz]

How is 'affirming their mutual friendship' in any way risque? How do you have trouble finding the right words to tell someone 'I wanna be your buddy?' How do you tell them, without words, of your buddyhood desire?

And why do you talk about starting a new life with them by your side (differently than before), raise kids, etc. as just buddies?

Narratively, it make-a no sense. When you reject a long understood fictive narrative of man and woman living in a house by themselves together (ie- no other grownups) and raising kids together = couple, especially when you've told us before and never negate them having feelings for each other, you have to be far more explicit that what we see is not a relationship of romantic partners, but of buddy buddies.

because if they're not buddies it kills the slight chance

Spoiler

was there even one?

of other pairings being considered cannon.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Oh this is interesting, from the comments on that YouTube clip. Is it true?

Siamath (4 months ago)
The part between Cloud and Tifa (and even a little bit after) is slightly different in european version of the game. They don't say and do the same things. (For example, Tifa clearly confesses her love for Cloud in french version and she screams and takes her head in her hands when she learns that everybody saw them).

songmic2412 (2 months ago)
That has nothing to do with whether it's European version or not. The part between Cloud and Tifa is influenced by Tifa's affection point. (Yeah, the Gold Saucer date is not the only event that is influenced by chrs' affection point.) What you saw happen in the European version is when Tifa's affection point is high. Otherwise, you get to see a different scene.

 

[Vendel]

Oh this is interesting, from the comments on that YouTube clip. Is it true?

Not exactly. The two (3lol) versions of the highwind scene are controlled by your use of Tifa in battle. The affection values have nothing to do with it.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Wow, yeah, after actually watching (lol) the clip in question, that's radically different from the game script I have here. Maybe that's where the pink controversy comes in. Maybe they all refused to use Tifa and treated her badly, so they got the least Tifa-friendly scene that could appear. And thus everyone thinks the other side is crazy.

Are there really 3 or just 2?

 

[Strangelove]

There's just two. I don't remember anyone proving there were three, and other material for the game just mention two anyway.

 

[Vendel]

Wow, yeah, after actually watching (lol) the clip in question, that's radically different from the game script I have here.

Broken link is broken.

Maybe that's where the pink controversy comes in. Maybe they all refused to use Tifa and treated her badly, so they got the least Tifa-friendly scene that could appear. And thus everyone thinks the other side is crazy.

I'm sure they did mistreat her. And no just they are crazy.

Are there really 3 or just 2?

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Broken link is broken.

Bah. http://members.fortunecity.com/sephkatana/ff7stuff/ff7sc.html

I was trying to link directly to the Disc 2 part. Stupid FortuneCity.

NO U. ><

 

[Ryushikaze]

There are only two. Rumors of a third version are baseless and unfounded. People have gone over the game code with a fine tooth comb and found easter eggs you literally cannot find throughout the normal course of play, and there was zero evidence of any third version. Has Anastar- it was her who fronted the 3 version thing wasn't it? Or do I misremember- ever officially retracted that position and conceded she was incorrect?

As for the 'battle value controls the highwind' this is also completely true. I have dicked with the values to that Barret won the date, but the 'high' highwind still appeared because I used Tifa throughout the game.

I should see if the FFWiki still accurately reports this, come to think of. I recall someone editing it back.

 

[Tennyo]

I've come to hate Wikis when it comes to topics like this. I tried to edit the CC Wikipedia article to say that Zack was the one that bought Aerith her ribbon and that he asked her to wear pink and yet it got changed back IMMEDIATELY (true story) and the person who changed it cited the fact that I had no evidence or it was hearsay or some such. It was annoying, because what I said was true. IT HAPPENS IN THE GAME!!!!!

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Well I recieve a pretty extensive script from/for the FF7Voice project that contains seemingly removed dialogue that I have no idea how they got ahold of in the first place (game code, I'm guessing, but haven't been able to get the question answered), so I'll probably find out eventually, but we're only up to Scene 5, which is like the Sector 7 plate falling and stuff. Somehow I'd never heard about there being two versions of this scene before.

You said the "high" Highwind scene. Does which scene you get also affect how high the Highwind is hovering in the air?

I've come to hate Wikis when it comes to topics like this. I tried to edit the CC Wikipedia article to say that Zack was the one that bought Aerith her ribbon and that he asked her to wear pink and yet it got changed back IMMEDIATELY (true story) and the person who changed it cited the fact that I had no evidence or it was hearsay or some such. It was annoying, because what I said was true. IT HAPPENS IN THE GAME!!!!!

That's annoying. Did you try citing the game dialogue? There are (or were) bits of Vincent's and Lucrecia's profiles on either that one or Wikipedia that I want to edit every time I see them but cba.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Well I recieve a pretty extensive script from/for the FF7Voice project that contains seemingly removed dialogue that I have no idea how they got ahold of in the first place (game code, I'm guessing, but haven't been able to get the question answered), so I'll probably find out eventually, but we're only up to Scene 5, which is like the Sector 7 plate falling and stuff. Somehow I'd never heard about there being two versions of this scene before.

You said the "high" Highwind scene. Does which scene you get also affect how high the Highwind is hovering in the air?

No, they're commonly called high and low because a high value gets you the longer one, and a low value gets you the shorter one.
You gotta be damn low to get the low one, though. Like Cloud attacking and killing off Tifa each battle low.

That's annoying. Did you try citing the game dialogue? There are (or were) bits of Vincent's and Lucrecia's profiles on either that one or Wikipedia that I want to edit every time I see them but cba.

Sometimes, people on wikis don't want to listen to evidence. Hell, they'll refuse to budge despite clearly being in the wrong.
See also: The Fusion Swords incident.
Me: Here. Here's everything from the reunion files supporting my point.
Them: WELL WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE IT'S NOT FIRST TSURUGI?
Me: Don't have to prove a negative. Where's your evidence, BTW?
Them: Um... Well it's still First Tsurugi.
Me: ...

Not in so many words, of course.

Addendum: Holy shit we have a sighing smiley? I did not know.

 

[Frostwave]

My little sister tried to edit a few things on VII's wiki page, and it was changed back right off, too.

I think she tried to correct something wrong with a paragraph about Case Of Tifa, and one about Maiden.

I told her not to waste her time.

 

[A]

The same sister who... you know, I presume?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Don't have to prove a negative. Where's your evidence, BTW?

Bullshit.

Prove to me you don't owe me 500 dollars.

Exactly.

 

[Strangelove]

Sometimes, people on wikis don't want to listen to evidence. Hell, they'll refuse to budge despite clearly being in the wrong.
See also: The Fusion Swords incident.
Me: Here. Here's everything from the reunion files supporting my point.
Them: WELL WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE IT'S NOT FIRST TSURUGI?
Me: Don't have to prove a negative. Where's your evidence, BTW?
Them: Um... Well it's still First Tsurugi.
Me: ...

Not in so many words, of course.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/First_Tsurugi

I like how the Japanese name (&#26368;&#21021;&#12398;&#21091 on the page isn't even the right one for the already wrong name.

 

[Makoeyes987]

They can be pretty stupid there, seriously. It's so annoying.

To be fair though, that article is probably the most factual its ever been now, with them admitting they have no official name, and including the real term "First Ken" in there.

But I hate how they say the "Fan Community" have named the swords Vigilante, Vendetta, Merciless, Avenger, Ascalon, and Sidewinder. I have no fucking clue what fan community called them that, or why its a legitimate point to include in an article that's supposed to house the facts. I know of no one who seriously calls them that.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Fffff must...change...Case of Tifa in Tifa's profile...fff...

 

[Ryushikaze]

Bullshit.

Prove to me you don't owe me 500 dollars.

Exactly.

Exactly. I don't have to prove the negative- that I don't owe you money. You have to prove the positive, that I do owe you money. Somehow, this escapes people.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/First_Tsurugi

I like how the Japanese name (&#26368;&#21021;&#12398;&#21091 on the page isn't even the right one for the already wrong name.

Oh, I had not noticed that. That is kinda funny.

They can be pretty stupid there, seriously. It's so annoying.

To be fair though, that article is probably the most factual its ever been now, with them admitting they have no official name, and including the real term "First Ken" in there.

Yeah, that was a long hard fought battle of blood sweat and tears.

But I hate how they say the "Fan Community" have named the swords Vigilante, Vendetta, Merciless, Avenger, Ascalon, and Sidewinder. I have no fucking clue what fan community called them that, or why its a legitimate point to include in an article that's supposed to house the facts. I know of no one who seriously calls them that.

I recall someone calling them that once, and then everyone going 'wait, what? Where the hell does this come from? That's stupid.'
But yeah, by that standard, I could legitimately edit the Aerith page to say 'the fan community have renamed her Nancy' based on Advent Fanboys and my old nuclear option to the Aerith/s debates.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

The Lucrecia article says this:

[Her feelings for Vincent] is made abundantly clear throughout the game, but even more so during the seemingly random words flashing across the screen. Assembling them into sentences will reveal, "I loved Vincent with all my heart" and "Please don't die on me, I love you!"

Even I know that's full of shit.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Where the fuck did that come from?

I mean, I don't doubt that Lucrecia loves Vincent and doesn't want him to die, but that's so forward and...where is that from?

 

[Strangelove]

lolz I signed up but I don't think I cba to change more than things like names

 

[Tetsujin]

They can be pretty stupid there, seriously. It's so annoying.

To be fair though, that article is probably the most factual its ever been now, with them admitting they have no official name, and including the real term "First Ken" in there.

But I hate how they say the "Fan Community" have named the swords Vigilante, Vendetta, Merciless, Avenger, Ascalon, and Sidewinder. I have no fucking clue what fan community called them that, or why its a legitimate point to include in an article that's supposed to house the facts. I know of no one who seriously calls them that.

^This.

Also, aren't some of those names lifted from DMC2? Fail. =/

I reverted stuff on articles more than once as well. T_T

 

[Eerie]

LOL, Wikipedia is fail for this kind of information ~______~ I cba use it for any fandom, really - I only use it for some historical facts and stuff like this - being able to check both English and French one helps to know if there are some problems in there too

Proof that Wikipedia is full of shit:

Le personnage de Denzel fait ici une apparition, comme enfant recueilli par Tifa et Marlène. Il était le narrateur de la nouvelle On the Way to a Smile, qui faisait la transition entre Final Fantasy VII et Advent Children

Which means: Denzel's character makes here an apparition, as a child took in by Tifa and Marlene [no, you're not dreaming this LOL]. He was the narrator in the novella On the Way to a Smile, which made the transition between FFVII and AC. [ahah, lulz, what].



I think my brain just fried on this one. I'll also pass on the fact that they're using the horrid french names such as CLAD instead of CLOUD - no kidding - although they do mention that afterwards he's named Cloud

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Where the fuck did that come from?

I mean, I don't doubt that Lucrecia loves Vincent and doesn't want him to die, but that's so forward and...where is that from?

I'd say from the delusions of fangirls, but I honestly thought I was probably at the top of that list. More puzzling is that it was removed once, then reworded and written in again&#8212;both times by an IP address rather than a name&#8212;and survived about 40-50 subsequent edits.

Meh. Maybe I WILL be arsed to fix this.

And moar importantly, if there's a VinLu shipper out there more "rapid" than I am, why haven't they introduced themselves to me?

Anywho, he's some fuel for the LTD fire, because on-topicness is good&#8212;

Cloud
"......Aerith."
"She was smiling to the end."
"We have to do something, or that smile will just freeze like
that."

(He turns to the others. He nods.)

Cloud
"Let's all go together."
"Memories of Aerith......"
"Although she should've returned to the planet by now, something
stopped her and now she's stuck......"
"We've got to let go of Aerith's memory."

Discuss.