The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Vendel]

Oh that's right, I forgot what a fairy tale FF7 is. What with its ecoterrorists and slums and brothels.

Sounds like some of my fantasies......

Imo, couples that don't fight don't have as strong of a relationship. Anyone who has been with anyone and has really been in love- try to tell me that after a resolving a fight you didn't become stronger.

Make-up sex!

 

[megas_sephiroth]

@Vendel

No, the way you desperately believe they are.

@xAerith

OK, I believe it, "but just a little" (yes, I'm shamelessly stealing Angeal's line).

 

[Vendel]

@Vendel

No, the way you desperately believe they are.

I do have this desperate need not to dilute myself with bullshit.

 

[megas_sephiroth]

Other people's opinions are bullshit?

 

[Vendel]

Other people's opinions are bullshit?

Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.

 

[Makoeyes987]

If you believe it, then how is it you said Cloud's issues would somehow keep him from ever being in a relationship with Tifa?

 

[Celes Chere]

Other people's opinions are bullshit?

In my opinion, yes, sometimes they are.

 

[Tennyo]

Seriously, how much evidence do you need?

I liked Mako's idea of Cloud boning Tifa on camera while giving the thumbs up, actually.

^this

With mirrors! Don't forget the mirrors! Bom chicka wow wow!

 

[megas_sephiroth]

@Mako

I never said that, what I said is that I don't believe he could have a healthy relationship with her before he actually got past those issues.

@Celes Chere

Other people's opinions are never bullshit, they're opinions. I've always repected other people's views, whatever they may be.

@Vendel

That's not a simple way of viewing things, it's simplistic.

 

[Ⓐaron]

What evidence do you have that Cloud hasn't gotten past his issues?

Also, people's opinions can be considered bullshit when they're not supported by the facts.

 

[Tennyo]

Also, people's opinions can be considered bullshit when they're not supported by the facts and they try to convince others that their opinion is truth.

fix'd, but it was still passable before.

 

[Makoeyes987]

And no, you said they weren't in a canon relationship in DC, and not all opinions are created equal. No one should see every opinion as equal or valid. The opinion of someone who thinks the world is flat, is bullshit, because it flies in the face of reason and fact. The opinion of someone who thinks all people are made of cotton candy on the inside, is bullshit. An opinion needs to have some basis in reality to actually be credible and not just the ravings of some mad man, or uneducated person.

 

[megas_sephiroth]

What evidence do you have that Cloud hasn't gotten past his issues?

Also, people's opinions can be considered bullshit when they're not supported by the facts.

In AC/C? I'm not talking about DoC, in which we have nothing to make a judgement.

Faith is not necessarilly supported by facts and it's not bullshit.

 

[Celes Chere]

Other people's opinions are never bullshit, they're opinions. I've always repected other people's views, whatever they may be.

Interesting. If I stated that you were an asshole without knowing you or really talking to you at all, you wouldn't consider that to be a load of crap?

(I don't think you are, btw. Just an example. <3 )

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Well, from what I've seen, Cloti is apparently too realistic to be considered canon. It's not fairy tale-esque, and not at all like fantasy. (Which I disgree with, I believe there are a lot of unrealistic things about Cloud and Tifa. Like, falling into the lifestream and having their hearts call to one another) This is what I have never gotten- all of the relationships have realistic elements put into them. Especially an epic couple like Tidus and Yuna. I never understood that Cloud and Tifa get into fights, therefore, they can not be together. Not even using the realistic arguments, the creators themselves state that Cloud and Tifa grow closer because of over coming their issues.

Speaking of Tuna, didn't Tidus have a tiff with Yuna for her desire to sacrifice herself for the good of Spira? Then got mad at her again for marrying Seymour (until it was explained that she did it for reasons he did not realize)? O wait, people getting mad at the other party means they clearly aren't a couple.

 

[Ⓐaron]

In AC/C? I'm not talking about DoC, in which we have nothing to make a judgement.

Cloud's relationship with Tifa in DoC. Isn't that what we're all talking about?

wat

Faith is not necessarilly supported by facts and it's not bullshit.

Uh yeah, actually I'd say it is

 

[Alex Strife]

What evidences do you have you don't all owe me 500$?

 

[Max Payne]

What evidences do you have you don't all owe me 500$?

The fact I don't know you or give a shit about you existence in any way?

 

[Alex Strife]

But maybe, just MAYBE I'm someone you know, that you could owe 500$ to!


Oh, by the way, I love you too!

 

[megas_sephiroth]

Interesting. If I stated that you were an asshole without knowing you or really talking to you at all, you wouldn't consider that to be a load of crap?

(I don't think you are, btw. Just an example. <3 )

Come on now, you know that's not what I'm talking about. Here's an example: in college I had a lot of friends, people that still are my friends nowadays and that believe things I wouldn't dream about believing. I've always repected they're opinions and, sometimes, I even discussed those things with them.

I never took an agressive tone of voice or told them, you know what, either you prove to me that exists, or that's a load of bullshit.

People's opinions come from their experience and their beliefs, telling them, hey, your opinion is bullshit is disrespecting them as a human being.

There are ways and ways of talking about one's views and telling them their point of view is bullshit is a pretty rotten way, if you ask me...

@Alex Strife

The burden of proof is seldom allowed in those terms. If your the one stating a fact, you're the one who has to meet the burden of proof.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Megas, what are you talking about? This is what you said.

No, but they had to have that kind of relationship going before, which isn't canon.

Cloud's relationship with Tifa in DoC. Isn't that what we're all talking about?

So....Cloud and Tifa's relationship is not canon?

As friends, yes. As something more, not quite.

So you were talking about DC. How is it we don't have anything to base a judgment, when DC takes place directly after AC? Do you think the past somehow disappears with the present?

@Dacon

I think the point is, is that trying to prove a negative isn't logically possible because its inherently ridiculous. You can't prove anything from a position of nonexistence.

@megas again

No, only someone who takes opinions personally would think that. An opinion, which is a subjective belief, is not entitled to be accepted by another person, especially in an intellectual or logical debate. Your opinion is only as good and as strong as what it is founded on. If you come to a discussion regarding global politics and say, "In my opinion, I think everyone should play with Hello Kitty and have a play date to settle world affairs" your opinion will be laughed at for having no basis in geopolitical reality.

People accepting everyone else's opinions regardless of what it is, doesn't bring to light any truth, consensus, or realization of the facts.

*Somewhere in 1543 Rome*

Person A: Did you hear about Copernicus and his heliocentric theory of the universe?
Person B: Yeah, that's some amazing stuff! Who'd have thought that with actual astronomical observation and mathematic calculation, you could discover the sun is the center of our universe!
Person C: In my opinion, I think the moon is the center of universe. Copernicus is wrong.
Person A: ....How did you get that?
Person: SHUT UP, AND RESPECT MY OPINION.
Person B. ....Okay.


...Yeah, I don't think so.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Thing is though, those things you gave as examples (Megas) aren't provable by facts. The LTD is.

 

[Alex Strife]

Should I have told him: you know what, my dear, he's not and that's a load of bullshit?

Nope, because in case you have done it, my friend, you wouldn't have only been distasteful, but also quite stupid, because you actually don't have a clue if the father is somewhere, or not!

By the way, when you want to discuss something, you HAVE to bring proof. To prove you're right!

 

[Ⓐaron]

If your the one stating a fact, you're the one who has to meet the burden of proof.

You're the one stating Cloud and Tifa are not a couple as of DC, which thus far you have failed to prove. "Cloud and Tifa are not canon in DC" is not a simple opinion, it is a statement, and statements can be false.

 

[Celes Chere]

Speaking of Tuna, didn't Tidus have a tiff with Yuna for her desire to sacrifice herself for the good of Spira? Then got mad at her again for marrying Seymour (until it was explained that she did it for reasons he did not realize)? O wait, people getting mad at the other party means they clearly aren't a couple.

Hm, I don't think that really constitutes as a big fight. But then again, what Tifa and Cloud have isn't really a huge argument either- it's an obstacle between them that only they together, can over-come. Much like the example you just gave for Tuna, Nin.

@Megas~ Well, I didn't mean it like that either. In debates, you're trying to prove something. That is done through evidence- opinions are just fine, but they're not proof. You cannot use opinions in a factual debate. It will never hold.

Bullshit is kind of a harsh way of putting it, I guess. If someone is sharing their honest opinion, I wouldn't say "That's just plain bullshit" unless they were being rude or something. I'd word it nicely that it can't be used as fact. You know? If they kept insisting their opinion is fact, then I might start getting a little annoyed.

If you're not talking about proving a fact, then fine- discuss opinions all you want. I'd always be respectful unless there was a reason not to be.