The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Alessa Gillespie]

I didn't say it was guilt for everyone. I mean, just read/watch Denzel's story? How is that boy not going to have issues that need resolving? XD

I can see pain for Denzel, but not so much guilt is all.

 

[Tennyo]

Well my main point that I was trying to make was that he was in pain as well.

ISN'T THAT ENOUGH FOR YOU?!?!?! D:

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

I READ GUILT AND RAN WITH IT TO MEXICO

 

[Eerie]

Did it occur to anyone that the Cloudy Wolf is nothing more than a design motif Cloud happened to like, and its not connected to any imaginary wolf that lingers on screen in AC?

Stop over analyzing this. Cloud has the damn wolf thing as a cell phone wallpaper and a cell phone strap. It's not an embodiment or representation of angst. It's just his design motiff he has a hard on for, like Squall has for his Griever merchandise.

I'm sure if you went into his drawers he'd have matching Cloudy Wolf boxer shorts.

This. Is what I meant.

I don't get how we're supposed to connect the RINGS with the wolf that appears and IS Cloud's guilt.

That's also why the rings gave me more a pack of hounds idea, something that tied them together, ALL of them, not only Cloud and Tifa. I think it was way earlier in this thread, that someone said maybe Barret's ring was actually Marlene but she gave it to her daddy. I like this idea - it's cute XD

But, I think that in any case, searching for them being guilty because they wear the rings is farfetched, if anything.

 

[Channy]

CoT cleary states that Tifa feels guilty.

Over what though? She didn't do anything. Unwarranted self importance imo.

No, moron, I said "THE family". lrn2read.

Same thing

She couldn't possibly feel guilty over the destruction of Sector Seven, or her inability to grieve over Aerith's death...

Besides, I don't think the "rings" represent guilt so much as "pack/family"...

But she wasn't involved in Aerith's death. She didn't threaten to punch her to death, or previously attack her. Ergo, moot.

This. Is what I meant.

I don't get how we're supposed to connect the RINGS with the wolf that appears and IS Cloud's guilt.

That's also why the rings gave me more a pack of hounds idea, something that tied them together, ALL of them, not only Cloud and Tifa. I think it was way earlier in this thread, that someone said maybe Barret's ring was actually Marlene but she gave it to her daddy. I like this idea - it's cute XD

But, I think that in any case, searching for them being guilty because they wear the rings is farfetched, if anything.

We're not. The world is just a subtle reference to bestiality in the game, and the thing Cloud wears everywhere is actually a lion. No connection whatsoever.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Same thing

Only if you failed English.

 

[Tennyo]

Well rings = guilt makes more sense than rings = LTD proof, imho. It's the only reason why I brought the subject up.

Over what though? She didn't do anything. Unwarranted self importance imo.

She feels guilty over her actions as a member of AVALANCHE. A lot of innocent people died, yo.

Also she does feel guilty over the death of Aerith as well, and probably guilty of her "complicated feelings" as well.

 

[Makoeyes987]

What about the stalker-wolf? That one represents Cloud's guilt.

Did you read what I said?

"the Cloudy Wolf is nothing more than a design motif Cloud happened to like, and its not connected to any imaginary wolf that lingers on screen in AC?"

The "imaginary wolf that lingers on screen in AC" is what you call, "the stalker wolf." Yes. That one represents his guilt.

However the emblem does not represent guilt. It's just his design motif. Like the Griever is Squall's. And the Jecht symbol, is Tidus'.

If it represented guilt, why does Cloud still wear it post AC, in DC, when he's finally moved on past his guilt?

It's nothing more than a design motif.

All the rings represent are their connection and closeness to Cloud as friends, family, etc. It's probably just some dorky ass gift he tried to force all his comrades to wear because he had a shit load of them custom made, and he sent them to everyone he knew, but Barret, Tifa, and Denzel are the only ones nice enough to wear his crap.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

All the rings represent are their connection and closeness to Cloud as friends, family, etc. It's probably just some dorky ass gift he tried to force all his comrades to wear because he had a shit load of them custom made, and he sent them to everyone he knew, but Barret, Tifa, Denzel, and Marlene are the only ones nice enough to wear his crap.

Akshully, not even Marlene will wear his crap.

 

[Tennyo]

It's probably just some dorky ass gift he tried to force all his comrades to wear because he had a shit load of them custom made, and he sent them to everyone he knew, but Barret, Tifa, Denzel, and Marlene are the only ones nice enough to wear his crap.

I lol'd. Poor Cloud nobody likes him enough to wear his stuff.

Also what Nin said. Not even Marlene likes him enough to wear one.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

But she wasn't involved in Aerith's death. She didn't threaten to punch her to death, or previously attack her. Ergo, moot.

I never said she was responsible for Aerith's death--but she certainly WAS involved--but also NOT what I said. What I said, quite clearly, actually was I that Tifa felt guilt over not being able to grieve for her friend.

...You know, Case of Tifa, that little bit of "fill in the blanks" you haven't read would serve you well.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I lol'd. Poor Cloud nobody likes him enough to wear his stuff.

Also what Nin said. Not even Marlene likes him enough to wear one.

Fixx'd

 

[Raquelborn]

Maybe if it was just Tifa and Denzel it would make sense, but Barret has it, too, add in Cloud and what do they all have in common? Guilt/pain stemming from their pasts that affect the conflicts in their current lives.

But it makes you wonder why Vincent doesn't have a ring too. Afterall, they dedicated an entire game to him overcoming his past/supressed emotions over Lucrecia and Shinra etc. Then again, apparently he has the wolf emblem on his gun somewhere...?

It's whoever claims that things have changed that needs to provide evidence.

I never said anything changed either. I'm careful of how I word my posts for a reason.

It's not an embodiment or representation of angst. It's just his design motiff he has a hard on for, like Squall has for his Griever merchandise.

If I remember correctly Nomura himself describes the wolf as a symbol of Cloud's guilt/pain in an interview which came with the AC DVD extras. He doesn't necessarily limit his comment to the wolf we see walking around. It's the same animal but just as a symbol, it's not unreasonable to think it means the same thing. It is a wolf.

I'm not sure what it should represent - isn't the ring sold as Tifa's ring?

To me, if the wolf that appears represents Cloud's guilt, the rings are a different matter - is there any word on this by one of the creators?

Apparently something was mentioned about Tifa's ring in particular at a "Square Enix Party" but I haven't been able to find out what was actually said. Anyone know?

Since we know the wolf represents Cloud's guilt it's reasonable to assume that the wolf emblem represents the same thing as it's the same animal.

That's also why the rings gave me more a pack of hounds idea, something that tied them together, ALL of them, not only Cloud and Tifa. I think it was way earlier in this thread, that someone said maybe Barret's ring was actually Marlene but she gave it to her daddy. I like this idea - it's cute XD

But it makes you wonder why not all of Avalanche have a wolf ring if it's about being a pack. Unless Square Enix is trying to portray Barrett as a member of Cloud's family/more immediate pack afterall. Which I doubt because there's a quote which pins down Denzel, Marlene and Tifa as his family and Barrett is not mentioned. I suppose it's always possible they all obtained the rings around the beginning of CoT when they were together and it's been said somewhere that Denzel's ring is actually Cloud's own ring that he gave to him. Also, since Cloud's covered in the emblem I'd say he gave Tifa and Barrett their rings too.

Like that website I gave the link to elaborated on, Marlene is shown to be different from the others in that she isn't weighed down by anything and this sets her apart from the rest of her family (which is everyone wearing the rings including Barrett) and so it makes sense that she be the exception when it comes to the wolf ring.

But, I think that in any case, searching for them being guilty because they wear the rings is farfetched, if anything.

I disagree. Yuffie, Cid, Nanaki and Marlene have nothing to feel guilty over or have any supressed emotions that are troubling them. Then on the other hand we have those who wear the wolf ring: Tifa who feels guilty for the destruction of Sector 7, Barrett who feels guilty over Corel (and probably sector 7 too), Denzel who wishes for Cloud to come home but doesn't say anything (which is also like Tifa) and ultimately Cloud who still feels guilty for Aerith and Zack's deaths. A pattern has emerged, so it makes sense to connect the wolf ring to guilt.

As for Vincent, like I said above, apparently he has the wolf emblem on his gun somewhere but I've personally never spotted it.

It's nothing more than a design motif.

Then surely we'd see this desgin motif in Crisis Core, but we don't.

 

[Tennyo]

@ Mako: What exactly did you fix?

 

[Channy]

Only if you failed English.

no u

Well rings = guilt makes more sense than rings = LTD proof, imho. It's the only reason why I brought the subject up.

She feels guilty over her actions as a member of AVALANCHE. A lot of innocent people died, yo.

Also she does feel guilty over the death of Aerith as well, and probably guilty of her "complicated feelings" as well.

Again, she shouldn't feel guilty over Aerith because she was no more involved than Barret, Vincent, Yuffie... and they have the Ribbons to represent her. Everybody wears one. But Tifa's guilt > Everybody elses guilt? Super gay.

I never said she was responsible for Aerith's death--but she certainly WAS involved--but also NOT what I said. What I said, quite clearly, actually was I that Tifa felt guilt over not being able to grieve for her friend.

...You know, Case of Tifa, that little bit of "fill in the blanks" you haven't read would serve you well.

^ that applies to this.

 

[Channy]

Then surely we'd see this desgin motif in Crisis Core, but we don't.

Cloud's not emo in CC, there isn't any time for him to sulk in the church and slave away designing something that means nothing, just so he can get away from Tifa.

YES I WENT THERE

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Again, she shouldn't feel guilty over Aerith because she was no more involved than Barret, Vincent, Yuffie... and they have the Ribbons to represent her. Everybody wears one. But Tifa's guilt > Everybody elses guilt? Super gay.

Tifa and Aerith were lovers friends, why shouldn't Tifa feel more sad than Barret or Vincent, who were just mildly acquainted with her?

 

[Tennyo]

Then surely we'd see this desgin motif in Crisis Core, but we don't.

I don't really see why we would.

Besides, CC is many years in the past. The graphic designer who came up with the motif just hadn't yet/was still attending the Midgar School of Design.

Again, she shouldn't feel guilty over Aerith because she was no more involved than Barret, Vincent, Yuffie... and they have the Ribbons to represent her. Everybody wears one. But Tifa's guilt > Everybody elses guilt? Super gay.

Where does it ever say that her guilt was greater/better/more founded than anyone else's? Cloud's guilt isn't even that founded either and is just as misguided.

 

[Makoeyes987]

How the hell would we see the design motif in Crisis Core when Cloud didn't get the idea until after FFVII?

Jesus Christ, will you people stop overanalyzing his damn Cloudy Wolf emblem? The emblem =/= the imaginary wolf that stalks him. The rings don't mean guilt or anything.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

no u

Again, she shouldn't feel guilty over Aerith because she was no more involved than Barret, Vincent, Yuffie... and they have the Ribbons to represent her. Everybody wears one. But Tifa's guilt > Everybody elses guilt? Super gay.

^ that applies to this.

You know, I have a hard enough time debating with someone that refuses to read/find/examine all the source material before making judgment, but I absolutely can't take anyone who uses "super gay" as a rebuttal seriously.

At all.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Channy, stfu, and stop trolling. You don't know what you're talking about and you make no damn sense. Read the damn novellas first before spouting out crap you know nothing about.

YES. TIFA FELT GUILTY OVER AERITH'S DEATH. THOSE ARE HER FEELINGS.

 

[Channy]

Tifa and Aerith were lovers friends, why shouldn't Tifa feel more sad than Barret or Vincent, who were just mildly acquainted with her?

Where does it ever say that her guilt was greater/better/more founded than anyone else's? Cloud's guilt isn't even that founded either and is just as misguided.

Aerith wasn't friends with everybody else?

I'm just saying they have the ribbon to represent Aerith's death, why would Tifa still be guilty and require a ring for it, if her guilt wasn't more important than everyone elses?

Mako: I'm actually trying to legitimately debate and I'm trolling?

Dats some Cloti biasism speaking.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

I'm just saying they have the ribbon to represent Aerith's death, why would Tifa still be guilty and require a ring for it, if her guilt wasn't more important than everyone elses?

It wasn't just for Aerith, it was also for the sector 7 plate incident. Which Barret participated in. And he also has a ring. HUH HOW CRAZY.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The ribbons are in honor of Aerith's memory. Wearing the ribbon doesn't mean you don't feel guilt or anything regarding her death.



Just....stop talking about it. You don't know what you're talking about regarding Tifa's feelings.

And will you people please stop with this damn talk about rings = guilt?

 

[Raquelborn]

How the hell would we see the design motif in Crisis Core when Cloud didn't get the idea until after FFVII?

He also hasn't acquired any guilt yet.

But yeah we're going off topic now.

To bring it back: I read some pages back that in ACC Tifa and Cloud's hands linger like they're about to hold hands at some point? I didn't spot this so could anyone point out where it is, or was the post in question referring to another couple?