The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Tennyo]

Lies, we all know Jenova was the biggest slut in FFVII.

lol Crater nipple!

You people post too much...

 

[Channy]

Well that's unavoidable really. But managers don't typically take people who hate to talk, make eye contact and generally keep to themselves when looking for employees in service.

 

[Isabella]

Where did we get the idea Tifa is shy and doesn't like to talk to anyone? She was the most popular girl in Nibelheim, after all. Being shy about expressing your feelings for a man isn't the same thing as being shy around everyone.

 

[Max Payne]

Well that's unavoidable really. But managers don't typically take people who hate to talk, make eye contact and generally keep to themselves when looking for employees in service.

What.

Several restaurants employ people as waiters/waitresses who don't make small talk and just do their jobs quickly and efficiently.

Also, being shy and uncomfortable around random folks that approach you=/=hating to talk and make eye contact.

You can do both.

 

[Channy]

I'm not sure who brought it up, but I know it wasn't me at least.

edit: Well sorry Dacon I haven't seen that. I've only ever really seen restaurants, bars, etc hire people who love to chit chat because it's known to make the customer want to come back again.

 

[Max Payne]

Where did we get the idea Tifa is shy and doesn't like to talk to anyone? She was the most popular girl in Nibelheim, after all. Being shy about expressing your feelings for a man isn't the same thing as being shy around everyone.

Who said she didn't like to talk to everyone? No one said she was shy around everyone lady.

She just seemed to not like having her personal space invaded by random people.

 

[Tennyo]

What.

Several restaurants employ people as waiters/waitresses who don't make small talk and just do their jobs quickly and efficiently.

Also, being shy and uncomfortable around random folks that approach you=/=hating to talk and make eye contact.

You can do both.

Have to agree. Talking to people in a business/professional/job setting is a lot different than a private/social setting.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Let me just clarify that I'm not criticizing Tifa's decision to wear what she wears and calling that slutty. I'm criticizing the designers' decision to dress her in that because it clearly favors her appearance over practicality. The same reason why I criticize Shalua's outfit.


Now let me nitpick a few more things here:

I think what she wears is closer to a tank-top. I have one similar to it that also bares my midriff.

The elastic band underneath the bust, designed to give support to the bust, makes it a sports bra rather than a tank top. If it had no band, it would be a tank top.

I think what Tifa wears is kind of cami-like.

You can think that, but you'd be wrong. You can also think that purple is made by combining yellow and orange, if you'd like.

A cami is defined by thin bra-like straps. In fact they're often adjustable like bra straps. Tifa's top has thick straps, so it is not a cami.

How is this confusing after I went through the definition of each, with pictures? You people will combat anything. Is it that you doubt me as a source? Who the hell do I have to get a second opinion from before you'll believe that I know what I'm talking about? My mother is a dressmaker— do I have to bother her with this?

Tifa is wearing a shirt, on the top part of her body, and it is sleeveless.

This is obvious to me. It doesn't matter what it's called, it's a top without sleeves.

Yes, but when you say "sleeveless top" that means something else in and of itself. So while it is a top without sleeves, it's misleading to call it a sleeveless top when discussing how conservative/provocative it is because that phrase refers to something entirely different and far more conservative.

It would be like if I went into a restaurant and ordered French fries, then smacked the waiter upside the head when he brought me French fries because what I really wanted was something fried in France. It just doesn't work in the context.


And for the record I never found her cowgirl outfit provocative. I just thought she looked like a clown.


TIFA IS NOT A SLUT. AERIS IS NOT A SLUT. MUKKI IS THE REAL SLUT KKTHX.

 

[Max Payne]

Yes, but when you say "sleeveless top" that means something else in and of itself. So while it is a top without sleeves, it's misleading to call it a sleeveless top when discussing how conservative/provocative it is because that phrase refers to something entirely different and far more conservative.

What. It's a top without sleeves. That's all I'm saying, because that's what it is. It doesn't matter what the context is, it's a top, without sleeves. I never argued in any context.

And for the record I never found her cowgirl outfit provocative. I just thought she looked like a clown.

Looked worse in CC.

And bella, I said that in reference to the assumption that Tifa could have slept with anyone between her time in Midgar during Cloud's absence, when she clearly isn't that kind of person.

It's obvious that she isn't the kind of person who can't sleep with just anyone without having a meaningful relationship, and there's no indication whatsoever of that. She even admitted to thinking about Cloud more and more when he was absent.

 

[Isabella]

The elastic band underneath the bust, designed to give support to the bust, makes it a sports bra rather than a tank top. If it had no band, it would be a tank top.

Depends on what art you go by. In that pic you posted it looked like a sports bra. In the CG render it looks like a tank top because it's loose around the bottom.

Not that I really care about such details.

 

[Dashell]

This slut thing is considered an awesome discussion? I preferred when Drake was in here with the opposing ideas. D;

Errr.... no, it's why I said keep going with this discussion and wait until I get back on Sunday to do the awesome one.

 

[Max Payne]

Lol I think this "Tifa is a slut, Aeris is a slut" shit is considered asinine by most folks.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Okay neither of the Girls are Sluty okay? Especially not Aerith, Nomura clearly emphasizes that she is Innocent and Lady-Like. I'm not saying Tifa is a Slut though because she isn't either.

You didn't have to say "If Tifa is so Is Aerith". That doesn't make it better on either part just cause Aerith is Too.

I don't want to get in to a LTD, But this is an LTD thread and I was defending a Character that was being bashed, So if people are going off topic...

If this is related to my comment, my point is that Tifa is no 'worse' than Aerith appearance wise, and that both are nothing compared to others, but that really, it's all bullshit, as my use of Selphie should have indicated.

Celes bby I came back for you. <3

Compared to others she is.

BULLSHIT.
Rosa, Rydia, Tina, Celes, Rinoa, Garnet, Yuna, Lulu, Rikku, Ashe, Fran etc. all show cleavage, which Tifa does not, and more skin in the titillating areas than Tifa.

Wasn't there a whole thread for that? And it caused a shit load of drama?

You miss my entire fucking point. Way to go.

Because it's fun?

An insufficient reason. Cease that bullshit immediately.

Keep in mind, Channy, that trolling is not OK, and that was close to an admission of trolling.

I hate Tifa for Tifa.

If by Tifa you mean horrible ridiculous strawman, yes.

So feminism means sleeping with as many guys as you want without ever once being called a single name or being judged on it? You sir live in a fantasy world, for that is not feminism.

Whooo strawmen.

I'm sorry? Whose boyfriend was she stealing when Cloud said that he and Tifa weren't together, nor did Tifa? I think that if Tifa had at least the balls to step forward and take Aerith aside asking her to step off, Aerith would have. But as far as she was concerned, he was fair game.

And yet Tifa is 'stealing' Cloud under the highwind beacuse...?

Aerith teaches the value of persistence and Tifa teaches the value of a slutty outfit. Put those lessons together and you have yourself a maneater.

If Tifa's outfit is slutty, Aerith's is by the same standard.

I wouldn't find it all that offensive. And really, I don't understand why everyone else is finding it so offensive to think that Tifa would sleep with someone else either.

We don't find it offensive. We find it unlikely. What's offensive is insisting on this slut nonsense.

The thing that people seem to be forgetting is that IT'S A GAME. Over the last few hours I've read posts about people getting so riled up over Tifa being called a slut and the thought of her sleeping with anyone else other than Cloud (God forbid she could have another bf in those 7 years) and really it's just sad now guys.

I'm Clerith, sure, but I don't easily take offense to my pairing or my fav heroine. I don't hold Aerith on a fucking pedestal like she's my God and argue with you all over blasphemous thoughts and accusations. I don't think she's zomg pure of heart, soul, mind and body, the likelihood of her having been with a guy is just as likely as Tifa. Because 7 years is a long time for shit to happen.

Yes, and both are rather unlikely.

Aerith has just as many faults as Tifa's, but the point people seem to be completely missing is that when I first played the game and was presented with this scantily clad woman, I initially thought: slut. My opinion. My own. Not fact or religion I'm not trying to push on anyone else. So stop trying to push your "zomg Tifa so pure" trufax on me because again, opinion, your own, keep it to yourself.

And we're saying A: Outfit no scanty. B: Opinion based on bullshit = bullshit.
And if we should keep OUR opinions to ourself, then so should you keep yours.

I thought the point of the LTD was to HAVE FUN.

It is. But calling one of the girls slutty is not cricket.

The thing with that is, is that I fell in love with Rikku's personality in X when she was sans slut. An yeah, I definitely thought less of her and Yuna for going through costume changes like that. I never said I didn't. But I didn't know that by saying one chara was a slut, we were suddenly taking into account every other woman in the whole series. Silly Channy.

Rikku isn't a slut in 10-2 either. And yes, if you're calling Tifa 'slutty' based on her outfit, it only fucking stands to reason you apply that standard evenly.

I'm just saying it's a fictional character, one of which none of you know on a deep personal level.

If I were calling any one of your friends a slut or a skank for their appearance, then yes, I'd deserve every bit of this assault. But really? Over pixels?

No. Over PRINCIPLES. This isn't about JUST Tifa. It's about the bullshit idea that a sleeveless top and skirt is somehow 'slutty' and that people should be judged like that.

And the official render makes it impossible for it to be a sports bra, Rav.

BTW, to compare Tifa to the other ladies
Rosa- cleavage, skintight bodysuit, possibly panties on the outside, or at least it looks like.
Rydia- cleavage, skintight bodysuit.
Celes- cleavage, skintight bodysuit.
Teera- cleavage, skintight top.
Rinoa- cleavage, midriff baring top.
Selphie- the infamous panty flash.
Garnet- cleavage, skintight bodysuit, cut to just above her area.
Beatrix- again, cleavage. Corset, bodysuit.
Yuna, in 10- yep, cleavage. Sideboob, too. 10-2 just took it a smidge further.
Lulu- Cleavage, corset, bondage dress.
Rikku- Bikini and micro mini. Cleavage assumed.
Ashe- Pink micromini, cleavage.
Fran- FRAN. Nuff said.
I mean, I could go on and on. Tifa shows no cleavage, and wears a longer skirt than many of the other FF girls, many of whom people never seem to have issue with. Hell, even Aerith shows her cleavage off in FF7 and CC. Even in CC, Tifa's gaudy outfit is still less revealing than things worn by other FF heroines of both prior and after FF7.

 

[Channy]

ARGH I thought we were done D;

BULLSHIT.
Rosa, Rydia, Tina, Celes, Rinoa, Garnet, Yuna, Lulu, Rikku, Ashe, Fran etc. all show cleavage, which Tifa does not, and more skin in the titillating areas than Tifa.

Garnet, really? Not that that matters... But again Tifa seems to have paved the way for these women as they have all come after her, with the exceptions of Rose, Rydia, Tina and Celes who received high res renders later on after VII.

You miss my entire fucking point. Way to go.

No, I got the point. I forgot to add to it sorry, I initially had part of my post attached to that line and then moved it down to the bottom of the post.

I should have added that I'm not against saying Aerith had sex with other guys during those 5-7 years. Because while I'm Clerith I'm not adverse to reality situations like that. Sorry.

An insufficient reason. Cease that bullshit immediately.

Keep in mind, Channy, that trolling is not OK, and that was close to an admission of trolling.

Sorry, not meaning for this to come off as trolling.

If by Tifa you mean horrible ridiculous strawman, yes.

Whooo strawmen.

Query, where does strawmen originate from? It's possibly the most common term for making up bullshit.

And yet Tifa is 'stealing' Cloud under the highwind beacuse...?

Did I ever insinuate that Tifa steals Cloud away from Aerith? I'm confused now.

If Tifa's outfit is slutty, Aerith's is by the same standard.

I know. And I admitted to this before at the very beginning of the argument.

And we're saying A: Outfit no scanty. B: Opinion based on bullshit = bullshit.

So now my opinion is bullshit?

Rikku isn't a slut in 10-2 either. And yes, if you're calling Tifa 'slutty' based on her outfit, it only fucking stands to reason you apply that standard evenly.

I didn't initially say Rikku was slutty in X-2, I followed up on that question when Celes asked... but I'm not sure why people are making a huge deal about it.

No. Over PRINCIPLES. This isn't about JUST Tifa. It's about the bullshit idea that a sleeveless top and skirt is somehow 'slutty' and that people should be judged like that.

It's not that the skirt is a skirt that bothers me, it's how SHORT the skirt is. And for some reason, I'd probably be more lenient to Tifa if they had originally given her shorts. And also the barely there top that only just covers her tits.

edit: wait a minute... Selphie actually had a panty flash?

 

[Max Payne]

And also the barely there top that only just covers her tits.

Lolwut, u blind?

the top is most definitely "there" and not barely, and her breasts are completely covered. Not "barely".

And that piece of art there, isn't meant to be a direct representation of her actual render in the game, where her proportions are different and more to scale.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

Depends on what art you go by. In that pic you posted it looked like a sports bra. In the CG render it looks like a tank top because it's loose around the bottom.

You're right, I suppose they retconned. It's the original design I take more issue with. They also seem to have given her a bit of a breast reduction.

Anyway, she needs a sports bra, doing all that flipping, whether she's a DDD or an A. =P It was the bottom half of her outfit that I thought was silly.

 

[Channy]

Also I had to google for high res pics of everyone seeing as I'm not all that familiar with everyone...

Also, I'm not sure why skintight is highlighted in every situation considering Tifa's outfit is just as tight on her. Seemed like a mandatory thing imo

Rosa- cleavage, skintight bodysuit, possibly panties on the outside, or at least it looks like.
- Yeah, Rosa's pretty bad.

Rydia- cleavage, skintight bodysuit.
- Just looks like she's in a bathing suit.

Celes- cleavage, skintight bodysuit.
-I didn't find anything all that revealing on Celes.

Teera- cleavage, skintight top.
- Terra's a bit revealing yeah.

Rinoa- cleavage, midriff baring top.
- I thought Rinoa is the innocent one of this bunch she's got hardly any cleavage showing. And baring her midriff? where?

Selphie- the infamous panty flash.
-wat, where?

Garnet- cleavage, skintight bodysuit, cut to just above her area.
- Which area? Her boobs? don't get me started on Garnet, she looks like she's 10, she shouldn't have boobs that size

Beatrix- again, cleavage. Corset, bodysuit.
- Yeah Bea's boobs are far too big to be shown in so much cleavage like that.

Yuna, in 10- yep, cleavage. Sideboob, too. 10-2 just took it a smidge further.
- I was surprised by the sideboob too. But she doesn't have any cleavage until X-2

Lulu- Cleavage, corset, bondage dress.
Lulu's... troubled..

Rikku- Bikini and micro mini. Cleavage assumed.
She lives in the desert? Also her boobs are too small to have cleavage.

Ashe- Pink micromini, cleavage.
Yah I dunno about that one. Wasn't it explained somewhere she wears revealing clothes because of the hot climat?

Fran- FRAN. Nuff said.

 

[Max Payne]

Tifa's shirt is loose around the bottom in the original art too.

Nomura rendered the cloth in the artwork in a bizarre way, where it LOOKS like it's clinging to her skin like a sports bra, when it isn't.

You're right, I suppose they retconned. It's the original design I take more issue with. They also seem to have given her a bit of a breast reduction.

I dun think so, her breasts look proportionate to her body in both pieces, it's just that in the original art, HER PROPORTIONS ARE FUCKED.

 

[Makoeyes987]

HEY EVERYONE

Chans is the captain and this discussion is the cargo.

This "Tifa is a slut" crap is stupid, and I think almost everyone here agrees with that. You're a hypocrite calling yourself a feminist and your argument makes fuck all sense and has zero context.

So feminism means sleeping with as many guys as you want without ever once being called a single name or being judged on it? You sir live in a fantasy world, for that is not feminism.

No ma'am, however it does mean being able to embrace your beauty and sexuality and not be judged for it nor punished for it because of the actions of someone else. It's fucking stupid to say that a woman can't embrace her beauty and looks on the flip side while saying you're full equal rights and empowerment of women. AND STOP MAKING THIS FUCKING ABOUT HOW MANY PEOPLE YOU SLEEP WITH. YOU SOUND LIKE THE IRANIAN NATIONAL GUARD.

Dressing sexily =/= promiscuity. At all. If you want all your women in pants and burkas, go fucking play Sharia Law Canadian Style elsewhere. You're like the perfect mix of Straw Feminist with a dash of Real Women Don't Wear Dresses.

Feminism is about equal rights and equal chance. It includes women being able to be free to embrace their own femininity/beauty and not getting shit for it/being objectified while also being able to do anything they want and advance in society without being pigeonholed in the role as a "woman." Did it not fucking occur to you that Tifa could enjoy dressing up the way she liked, because she liked it? It has nothing to do with attracting attention and everything to do with liking her own fucking body.

You're a hypocrite and you're trolling. I'll take a chill pill if you take smart/No-more-BS pill. If you're gonna "Ernest P. Worrell" on the internets, don't be surprised when people call out the stupidity and hypocrisy. We're fed up with that stupid Clerith, bullshit that makes sense only in Pinkland. Fucking sick of it. Is it too much to ask someone has an opinion or point that's consistent, and has the maturity of someone past 5th grade?

Christ. Everyone's sick of you and your bullshit logic and character bashing.

When did I do that? In fact I was ASKED for my opinion on Tifa and only after did people find it blasphemous because everyone else praises her like the Goddess she is, did they feel the need to reply to me. So no u sir.

When you crafted that stupid fucking feminist strawman argument about how she's a slut based on zero evidence and reality while ignoring the numerous other females who dress the same fucking way in the same game. It's laughable. If you're gonna post that shit here, then prepare to have it savagely torn apart and beaten with sticks.

You know channy, when you say that fictional characters aren't worth getting emotional/defensive over, you're basically saying everything you've posted can be dismissed as trolling.

Or you're just a hypocrite.

This times a trillion. What the fuck are you doing here then, Channy? What're you arguing?

Garnet, really? Not that that matters... But again Tifa seems to have paved the way for these women as they have all come after her, with the exceptions of Rose, Rydia, Tina and Celes who received high res renders later on after VII.

How the fuck did she "pave the way" if there were fucking characters dressing just as scantily as her before Nomura was picking up a pencil to do character designs? The fucking way was paved with Rydia and Rosa, for fuck's sake. She wasn't the first. Their artwork already existed before her.

Sorry, not meaning for this to come off as trolling.

More fucking bullshit, you know damn well it does by our posts before. It's grating.

It's not that the skirt is a skirt that bothers me, it's how SHORT the skirt is. And for some reason, I'd probably be more lenient to Tifa if they had originally given her shorts. And also the barely there top that only just covers her tits.

edit: wait a minute... Selphie actually had a panty flash?

Her fucking top isn't just "barely there" and her skirt's a normal length for a damn..skirt. You never ever see Tifa's fucking panties in th game.

AND YES, Selphie had a panty flash in FFVIII. I fucking posted about that earlier. If you REALLY want a short skirt, look at her. You can see her panties several times in FFVIII. They're as clear as day.

AND NOW FOR SOMEONE WHO ISN'T CRAZY!

Let me just clarify that I'm not criticizing Tifa's decision to wear what she wears and calling that slutty. I'm criticizing the designers' decision to dress her in that because it clearly favors her appearance over practicality. The same reason why I criticize Shalua's outfit.

True, but FFVII and its character designs are all about aesthetics. It goes both ways for both genders. Tifa is definitely not the only character, male or female who's outfit makes fuck all practical sense in reality. But that's how Nomura did it. He wants the characters to look good. The men and the women. You'll find blatant aesthetic/beauty/sexual fan service in a lot of the characters of the series. And not just FFVII either.

I guess its subjective whether you think it looks good or not, but I mean, that's the intrinsic logic behind it.

I'm not sure what you mean about a breast reduction though. Her chest looks about the same size it was in her original artwork, just rendered more realistically in AC-esque graphics.

....Damn this thread is sucking ass now.

 

[Channy]

Lolwut, u blind?

the top is most definitely "there" and not barely, and her breasts are completely covered. Not "barely".

And that piece of art there, isn't meant to be a direct representation of her actual render in the game, where her proportions are different and more to scale.

What I meant by barely there is that it just comes down and under her boobs but then stops there.

Until the recent render where it comes down slightly lower.

The old artwork does look like a sports bra tho.

edit: Mako I'll be willing to stop with the Tifa is a slut stuff if you are. Because honestly I'm tired of reiterating that it's just my opinion and thats something you can't change.

Also, I didn't read any of that. Moar reason for this to stop.

 

[Ryushikaze]

ARGH I thought we were done D;

Garnet, really? Not that that matters... But again Tifa seems to have paved the way for these women as they have all come after her, with the exceptions of Rose, Rydia, Tina and Celes who received high res renders later on after VII.

And whose renders were not what I was referring to. I was referring to their Amano arts. Their renders are merely an additional bullet point, but not my reference.

No, I got the point. I forgot to add to it sorry, I initially had part of my post attached to that line and then moved it down to the bottom of the post.

I should have added that I'm not against saying Aerith had sex with other guys during those 5-7 years. Because while I'm Clerith I'm not adverse to reality situations like that. Sorry.

The thing is, we still have nothing to suggest it happened.

Sorry, not meaning for this to come off as trolling.

The sometimes cavalier responses come close at times.

Query, where does strawmen originate from? It's possibly the most common term for making up bullshit.

It refers to attacking a straw facade, and it a commonly used to refer to arguments which attack something similar but distinctly different from that which is actually there, such as an absurd charicature of an argument.

Did I ever insinuate that Tifa steals Cloud away from Aerith? I'm confused now.

No, but it's a common Clerith claim, and often goes hand in hand with the 'takes advantage of grieving Cloud' nonsense.

I know. And I admitted to this before at the very beginning of the argument.

Then why persist in all this?

So now my opinion is bullshit?

Any opinion which cannot be adequately supported is by definition, invalid, or in blunter terms, bullshit.

I didn't initially say Rikku was slutty in X-2, I followed up on that question when Celes asked... but I'm not sure why people are making a huge deal about it.

Because it's still an asinine standard. And while you didn't initially say she was slutty, you did call her outfit slutty.

It's not that the skirt is a skirt that bothers me, it's how SHORT the skirt is. And for some reason, I'd probably be more lenient to Tifa if they had originally given her shorts. And also the barely there top that only just covers her tits.

The skirt is hardly that short, and the top more than 'just covers' her breasts.

edit: wait a minute... Selphie actually had a panty flash?

How did you miss it? Speaking of, the hem on her skirt and dress are a lot shorter than Tifa's ever was.

 

[Max Payne]

What I meant by barely there is that it just comes down and under her boobs but then stops there.

Until the recent render where it comes down slightly lower.

The old artwork does look like a sports bra tho.

edit: Mako I'll be willing to stop with the Tifa is a slut stuff if you are. Because honestly I'm tired of reiterating that it's just my opinion and thats something you can't change.

Also, I didn't read any of that. Moar reason for this to stop.

Cloth is too loose in the original art too. It doesn't look like a sorts bra either. And the shirt doesn't stop right underneath her boobs.

 

[Isabella]

*backs away from Mako*

You know, if we're talking practicality, what about Cloud's AC outfit? He's wearing a half skirt and his pant legs are so baggy at the bottom you'd think he'd be tripping all the time. How convenient is that to fight in, or ride a motorcycle?

Designers just draw what looks cool to them. I don't think practicality is a huge issue.

 

[Max Payne]

I'd also like to edit my earlier point on Tifa's ingame render and say her proportions are fucked in that too, and if she looks to be wearing a sports bra anywhere, it's during battle gameplay..

 

[Makoeyes987]

Don't you back away from me, Isabella. Are you afraid of my...

RAAAAAGE?