The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[paoo]

Mullets are da ghey

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

FUCK YOU mullets are boss.

Unless you're saying Squall can't pull it off, in which case you'd be right.

Snake can pull it off.

Squall's too much of a pussy to pull it off.

 

[paoo]

Squall's too much of a pussy to pull it off.

 

[Celes Chere]

Aerith is still my fav. character, and tbh Tifa doesn't exactly appeal to me.

Which is fair enough. It's awesome that you're not batshit crazy about it like some people, lol. "CLOTEE IS BAD BECAUSE TIFAZ A HO". I actually don't mind Channy thinking the way she does about Tifa, because it's her honest opinion that had a reason behind it. While I don't agree with the reasoning, it's far better than just being plain moronic.

I don't understand how anyone can take KH seriously enough to debate over it

Same. It's an AU game. It's not like it even actually matters. Gotta say, KH2 is pretty fooking Cloti, though. I don't get how KH1 was so Clerith, just because of that two second scene in the credits you can miss by blinking.

And Squall's too much of a pussy to do anything. His choice in women is also lacking.

Celes bby I came back for you. <3

@Everything you said back to me:
I'd say Aerith was very clingy, and I can't blame her. Look what happened to Zack in the past, and now this guy that reminds her of him shows up, and even fell through her roof the same way Zack did. Aerith wouldn't let Cloud leave her house- and she was persistent to join him no matter how many times he told her that it was too dangerous. While I admire that, I'm not going to deny that it's being rather clingy. Aerith really was all about sticking to Cloud, too. She interacted with him often, more than anyone else I'd say. And, as I said before, even knowing that Tifa has an interest in him (and optional if she knows Cloud has an interest in Tifa), she will remind him of the date and openly flirt with him.

It's offensive because Tifa wouldn't do that. It's made clear that she has in her heart one man, and one man only. Her character creators have made that quite clear. True, it is 'just a game', but that doesn't justify the right to call something slutty, when it isn't. The game and characters have heavy influences on the people that experience them. Some people find things they can relate to with certain characters, and become really attached. While I think it's going too far to start flame and hate wars over pixels, I feel it's just fine to defend them.

True, seven years is quite a bit of time for shit to go down, but if something like another relationship happened, the creators would have made that clear to us. I really hope you're not offended, Channy. I'm not calling your opinion moronic, or stupid, but I do think that it's incorrect. And since this is techincally a debate thread. I just want to say that I do respect your opinion, though I disagree.

All for the Chanz. <3

!!!I don't think people should be calling you a rapid Clerith, or say that you're spouting bullshit. Now, that's offensive to me. You're not a fictional character, you're real. And I don't think it's fair to insult you when you were nice enough to offer up your honest opinions. Are fail pictures towards you really necessary? I mean, come on. That's just disrespectful, especially in a debate. If you were a complete idiot, that'd be a different story, but you're not.

Spoiler

ilu

 

[Hinata Hyuga]

The opinion that Tifa is a slut is bull, though. And the reasons she gave to justify it were also bull.

I think it would be sad for someone to be offended over someone saying their opinion is bs when it obviously is. Especially when they said themself that it is nothing, just a game, just a fictional character and so on.

I like McChanny myself. I don't know her real well or anything, but she's nice and her posts are usually funny. But BS is BS. Come on.

 

[Celes Chere]

Like I said, I think what she's saying is incorrect information.

Which is a nicer form of bullshit.

 

[Hinata Hyuga]

I know. Sorry.

I don't wanna beat a dead horse. I like horses, and they should R.I.P.

(that joke was...so...fruity...sorry!)

 

[Fairheartstrife]

What happens when people are afraid or reluctant to call "bullshit" when they see bullshit only perpetuates a cycle wherein things such as 'clothing=character' go misaddressed or ignored or scoffed off as "incorrect information."

Yes, like Channy. She seems like a decent kid. But don't ignore inflammatory comments or ridiculous social commentary simply because it was about a fictional character. I don't give a rats ass if she likes Tifa. Not everyone does. But I do care--vehemently--when a female proclaims herself a feminist and then spouts out nonsense regarding sexual promiscuity based on the length of a skirt. No. just, no. That's bullshit.

 

[Stella]

Since nobody seems to have mentioned this, I&#8217;m going to go on and throw it out there:

Many Clerith have claimed that in AC/ACC, Cloud leaves Tifa because he wants to be reunited with Aerith, despite the fact that ACC practically bashed it into our heads that he left because he was looking for a cure for Denzel, felt guilty about the deaths of two very close friends, ect. Now if Cloud and Aerith have this &#8220;undying love&#8221; for each other, and Aerith, who is watching over her distraught lover from above, sees how miserable Cloud is without her, why doesn&#8217;t she keep him in the lifestream with her when she&#8217;s given the chance?

Instead, she sends him back without a scratch. Either the poor girl is blind, or this whole lovers after death thing just isn&#8217;t happening.

I&#8217;m not even sure how the dialogue between the two in any of their scenes can be taken as romantic. She asks why he&#8217;s come, she jokes and says he doesn&#8217;t belong in the lifestream, ect. I mean those don&#8217;t sound like things you would say to someone you know longs to be reunited with you in spirit land or whatever.

This probably makes no sense, but it was on my mind and I thought I&#8217;d at least mention it.

As for KH, even if it was Clerith, what does that really change? Aerith is still dead and Cloud is still alive living his life with the woman he shares mutual feelings with. If Clerith is so obvious in the Compilation alone, people shouldn&#8217;t have to run to AU games such as Kingdom Hearts and Dissidia for evidence (I'm referring to the flower-field scene at the end btw).

 

[Ⓐaron]

What happens when people are afraid or reluctant to call "bullshit" when they see bullshit only perpetuates a cycle wherein things such as 'clothing=character' go misaddressed or ignored or scoffed off as "incorrect information."

Yes, like Channy. She seems like a decent kid. But don't ignore inflammatory comments or ridiculous social commentary simply because it was about a fictional character. I don't give a rats ass if she likes Tifa. Not everyone does. But I do care--vehemently--when a female proclaims herself a feminist and then spouts out nonsense regarding sexual promiscuity based on the length of a skirt. No. just, no. That's bullshit.

Yeah, I'm not going to tiptoe around calling bullshit where I see it. People are entitled to their own interpretations of the games to a point but when they're either blatantly misrepresenting canon or using hideous stereotypes to colour their interpretations of the characters then I'm going to call them out on it.

 

[Celes Chere]

Well... well... does it hafta be so mean? ;_; -twiddles thumbs- I'm biased when it comes to Channy, is all. She'z meh bby.

Also, Aerith sent Cloud back because neither she or Cloud are selfish bitches. Some Cleriths apparently think otherwise.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

You make a very valid and logical argument, Stella.

Also, reunited with your "One Twu Wuv" you don't usually bring your "EX" as a carry-on, y'know...

 

[Ⓐaron]

Well... well... does it hafta be so mean? ;_; -twiddles thumbs- I'm biased when it comes to Channy, is all. She'z meh bby.

The only post I would consider to be particularly mean would be Mako's, and that was only made after less blunt measures had proven to be rather ineffective.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Well... well... does it hafta be so mean? ;_;

In most cases the response was directed at the disturbing "opinion" and not specific to Channy herself. Only when the debate increased did it become harsher, and I'm hard pressed to think of anyone calling Channy any names... I could be wrong. **shrug**

 

[Isabella]

That's something I've never understood about a Clerith interpretation: Why aren't Cloud and Aerith acting like lovers ripped apart in AC? Why does Cloud only blather on about forgiveness, instead of telling her what he wasn't able to say while she was alive -- that he loves her? Why are Aerith and Zack playfully teasing each other instead of Aerith being alone with her Great Love? If I were writing that love story I would've made their rare moments to communicate more meaningful and heart-wrenching. I just can't believe that Cloud, given the opportunity to communicate with her again, would only speak of guilt and forgiveness.

 

[Strangelove]

The only post I would consider to be particularly mean would be Mako's, and that was only because Mako is always like that

Fixxed

 

[Ⓐaron]

Touché

 

[Hinata Hyuga]

That's something I've never understood about a Clerith interpretation: Why aren't Cloud and Aerith acting like lovers ripped apart in AC? Why does Cloud only blather on about forgiveness, instead of telling her what he wasn't able to say while she was alive -- that he loves her? Why are Aerith and Zack playfully teasing each other instead of Aerith being alone with her Great Love? If I were writing that love story I would've made their rare moments to communicate more meaningful and heart-wrenching. I just can't believe that Cloud, given the opportunity to communicate with her again, would only speak of guilt and forgiveness.

And they didn't do a good job if that was their intent in the original game, either. Cloud never seemed like he was broken up about her death in the way that a man who has just watched the woman he is in love with die in front of his eye, and helpless to save her.

They always brought everyone in the party in on it, made it a group of people mourning a lost friend and comrade but never a moment alone where Cloud does the usual things that guys in similar situations in games and anime do. Brood alone off by themselves, talk to themselves if only I had done this..or that.

And then at the end where they put Cloud and Tifa together, with him catching and rescuing her like he failed to do when he was younger.

 

[Celes Chere]

Okay, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't like... attacking her. Thinking someone's opinion is wrong is one thing, but insulting them personally for it is another case. Seto's big OMG FAIL post is what particularly caught my eye so... I don't even know if Channy is even bothered by it, so maybe I should shut mai whore mouth. Thanks for clarifying.

Cloud never seemed like he was broken up about her death in the way that a man who has just watched the woman he is in love with die in front of his eye, and helpless to save her.

To be honest, and I'm not trying to be a 'rabid cloti' or anything, but I feel like Cloud shows a different emotion when Tifa almost dies/gets hurt.

Not to say that Aerith's death scene wasn't one of the saddest moment in like, any FF or that it wasn't important, but the scene doesn't scream *love* to me at all. I agree with what most of you are saying: that this is about the tragedy of Aerith, a beloved comrade and very special woman losing her life.

 

[Stella]

To be honest, and I'm not trying to be a 'rabid cloti' or anything, but I feel like Cloud shows a different emotion when Tifa almost dies/gets hurt.

I think you mean 'rapid cloti' lol and that couldn't have anything to do with a certain promise etched in Cloud's memory, now could it? =)

Ya know, people are so emotionally invested in the CxA pairing, that they have to overlook tons of important details and evidence to make their pairing seem even a little bit canon. It’s sad, but a lot of people fell for the plot twist in 7 and never realized it was just that: a plot twist! Aerith and Cloud were the couple you were expecting to see in the end, but it just didn’t work out that way. That’s what makes the game and the characters so memorable.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I don't understand how you got any of that from "KH was all about finding your light in the sense of your romantic interest, for example Belle and the Beast. Sora found Kairi but continued to look for his light in KH2 right? KH2 on the other hand is all about finding your inner light, not a certain someone. " Please elaborate.

Sora wasn't looking for his light in KH2. He was looking for Mickey and later Riku, and then to stop the second Kingdom hearts. His 'light' issue was solved when Kairi gave him hers, in a sequence much like the one during Showdown of the Fates 2.

Who is his darkness as stated in KH:FM so he definitely can't be his romantic light. Yes, he is searching for Sephiroth but he is also in loss of his light and searching for it as suggested by:

No, it does not suggest he's searching for it. He essentially says to Sora 'Don't fuck up Like I did, kid', and Sora says 'you're not irredeemable'. At NO point does he suggest he's looking for his light, much less his light in a romantic sense. In fact, the person you think is his light specifically wonders about Cloud's search for Sephiroth.

xAerith mentioned that Nomura said something about Cloud's reunion in an interview so I asked her for a link or quote to it as it may help us to better understand what that scene in the credits was all about.

And I'm asking you to support this romantic light/ internal light divide, which, if a theme, seems sorely underrepresented in the worlds visited over the course of the game.

KH2 is inner light as Sora, the main character, is looking for his inner light.

But he's NOT. His macguffins are King Mickey, Riku, and the Kingdom Hearts. Unless one of those is his inner light somehow...

KH is about other people being your light (which is often because they are a romantic interest) as Sora is looking for his light who is a romantic interest called Kairi. It's the common themes evident when you play each game, a quote shouldn't be necessary.

Except it's NOT a common evident theme, since it isn't supported by the main story or the stories of the worlds you visit.

Agreed.

So why suspect the light was rejected? Why suspect this isn't a light transfer, when it bears the same hallmarks of the other transfers seen?

See where you quoted my 'bullshit'.

Then either quote a direct statement or examples from the text to suggest this is an overriding theme of each game.

Agreed.

So running from Tifa and her something warm for likely the same reasons as in AC/C, how does this not indicate she might also be the romantic light, again?

I directly quoted what xAerith said. If the quote is different to what she said then please bring the correct quote in full to our attention.

"It seems the light of the present is too much for you."

Yes that factors in as well, but I was inserting in Aerith because xAerith missed her out and her death is a big contributer to his guilt.

It is. But so are Zack, Tifa, the kids, etc.

I'm glad it's that simple.

It is. It doesn't mean they aren't other things, but they are beings of pure light and dark. Aerith is a normal blend of both.

I was talking about KH2, the cut scene is from KH2. KH was different in that people tended to be light and be darkness but In KH2 the recurrent theme is inner darkness and inner light. Hence why Sephiroth talks about Cloud's own darkness and is never referred to as being Cloud's darkness in KH2. Which brings us back to Tifa therefore not being able to be Cloud's light in this sequel.

You assume the inherent cosmology has changed dramatically since KH1? Let's use the embodiment thing you brought up. Sephiroth embodies Cloud's darkness. He HOLDS this darkness inside him, and is called by it, cannot die as long as there is darkness in Cloud. Tifa, similarly, embodies and holds Cloud's light. She carries his light around, for safekeeping.

Could you provide a youtube video showing a light transfer between two other characters. Then we can all be utterly convinced of what you've said.

The Riku returning Kairi's light and Kairi restoring Sora. I mean, if YOU can get away with 'It's an obvious thematic blah blah blah with no other explanation, why should I be arsed to go the extra mile?

I've addressed this above.

Tifa's appearence in KH2 is more of a cameo considering that it was decided Sephiroth and Aerith were priorities to put in before her in both games.

And yet she's actually RELEVANT to the Cloud's storyline. Sephiroth is a cameo.

And hito saved the day

Also, who can take KH seriously when you have effin' Donald in your party? LOL.

Donald is srs business.

And yes, Cloud never acts like a man who's had the love of his life ripped from him by death, either in FF7, or in AC/C. If that was the intention, one would THINK it might get mentioned at some point, especially when discussing his motivation. And yet, nothing. All he wants from the lady is forgiveness.

 

[Zee]

That's something I've never understood about a Clerith interpretation: Why aren't Cloud and Aerith acting like lovers ripped apart in AC? Why does Cloud only blather on about forgiveness, instead of telling her what he wasn't able to say while she was alive -- that he loves her? Why are Aerith and Zack playfully teasing each other instead of Aerith being alone with her Great Love? If I were writing that love story I would've made their rare moments to communicate more meaningful and heart-wrenching. I just can't believe that Cloud, given the opportunity to communicate with her again, would only speak of guilt and forgiveness.

I think it's because Aeris' death is a big part of what spurns his depression and feeling of inadequacy when dealing with Tifa and the family. Because he failed someone he once cared romantically about, he's afraid of doing the same to Tifa who he's now pursuing a romantic relationship with. This is why he seems to seek her out specifically (ie; going to the church, having that wtf head conversation with her) when seeking forgiveness -- not to say Zack's death doesn't count as well, but that's not who he's spiritsexing meeting in flowerfield!headspace.

Of course, since Cloud/Aeris never actually came to be and at most there were just unresolved feelings, I don't think we need to see or hear more than we did. It'd be pretty weird to hear them confess love to each other and then, "Okay, well, I'm gonna go shack up with Tifa kthnx!"

As for Zack and Aeris banter, I really don't think that means anything other than that they are comfortable with each other. He's not even trying to get into her pants like in MotP - they're both just teasing each other about Cloud.

course this is just my clerisy interpretation blargh

 

[Fairheartstrife]

And yet, nothing. All he wants from the lady is forgiveness.

And Zack's number.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

\ Because he failed someone he once cared romantically about, he's afraid of doing the same to Tifa who he's now pursuing a romantic relationship with. This is why he seems to seek her out specifically (ie; going to the church, having that wtf head conversation with her) when seeking forgiveness -- not to say Zack's death doesn't count as well, but that's not who he's spiritsexing meeting in flowerfield!headspace. \

Vendel would like to ask when Cloud and Aerith were romantically involved. He doesn't understand how people can just assume they were involved.

/gopher

 

[Dashell]

Vendel would like to ask when Cloud and Aerith were romantically involved.

They weren't.