The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Mr. Flibble]

Wow this thread is absolutely made of completely useless nonsense.
owell here goes.

There are no Cleriths on the internet.

Except here. Tifa was just Clouds childhood friend.
I think Tifa doesn't quite know what she's feeling what with being sliced and diced, her dad being killed, I presume some time on the run or something before arriving in Midgar and joining avalanche, and then of course the time spent in avalanche working as a terrorist, I don't think she's had much time to experiment with love and relationships, and sees Cloud as an escape of some kind. A reminder of the past that she lost and is projecting those feelings and interpreting them as love because she has no real past experience to compare them to.

Aerith on the other hand had never met Cloud before and had a thing for him instantly. That was genuine relationshipy type feelings that grew into what I think was real love.

 

[Celes Chere]

Tifa was just Clouds childhood friend.

Incorrect. "Apart from being Cloud's childhood friend" and "Not only is Tifa Cloud's childhood friend" are both official statements, which go on to say that Tifa is an important woman to Cloud, and is the woman that understands him all too well.

A reminder of the past that she lost and is projecting those feelings and interpreting them as love because she has no real past experience to compare them to.

Aerith on the other hand had never met Cloud before and had a thing for him instantly. That was genuine relationshipy type feelings that grew into what I think was real love.

Interesting idea, but rather impossible considering that she cared for Cloud before all the shit went down. (Besides her Mother dying) I don't think Cloud was an escape for her at all, since there were other guys that were always by her side. And yet, Tifa chose Cloud. Over Johnny, over her main group of friends, she chose the socially awkward boy that called her out to the well that night. She searched for him in papers, waited for him and wondered how he was. Dressed up for him, and said that nothing else in the world mattered besides him later on in the game.

The reason Aerith had a thing for Cloud, is because she saw Zack within him. How it grew into real love is what I ponder, since she never once met the real Cloud completely during the entire FFVII game.

 

[Mr. Flibble]

Incorrect. "Apart from being Cloud's childhood friend" and "Not only is Tifa Cloud's childhood friend" are both official statements, which go on to say that Tifa is an important woman to Cloud, and is the woman that understands him all too well.

Okay, so she's an important woman to cloud, so? My best female friend is important to me too. That doesn't mean I'm meant to be with her.

Interesting idea, but rather impossible considering that she cared for Cloud before all the shit went down. (Besides her Mother dying) I don't think Cloud was an escape for her at all, since there were other guys that were always by her side. And yet, Tifa chose Cloud. Over Johnny, over her main group of friends, she chose the socially awkward boy that called her out to the well that night. She searched for him in papers, waited for him and wondered how he was. Dressed up for him, and said that nothing else in the world mattered besides him later on in the game.

The reason Aerith had a thing for Cloud, is because she saw Zack within him. How it grew into real love is what I ponder, since she never once met the real Cloud completely during the entire FFVII game.

There were other guys by her side yeah, but they were'nt her childhood friends. They were random avalanche people that she only recently got to know, whereas Cloud was a link to a time before she lost all her friends and family violently and tragically.
And she told himn nothing else mattered in the world besides him? That could also mean absolutely nothing. If you think you're in love with someone, then that is something that would go hand in hand with that thought whether it's true or not.
The evidence on both sides is flimsy, but from my own life experiences and everything, I can only see Clerith being something that would work out...had Aeris not died of course

 

[Channy]

But they don't exactly specify what these feelings are, do they? They could be feelings of romantic love, comradeship, gratitude, guilt, etc., etc.

I'm just saying it's quite possible for Cloud to feel any of the above for ever and ever(except for the first) while being in a romantic relationship with Tifa, and not be cheating on her (. Edit: ) or otherwise unfaithful, or in any way a two-timer...

I'd wager that those feelings are closer to romantic love than they are of just comradery. You don't normally hold undying feelings for a friend, especially if you only knew them for 2 weeks AND were fucked in the head. But then, those feelings are closer to guilt than they are love. But far closer than just friendship and gratitude imo.

Hey guys, why don't Cleriths sign up here?

Because they don't exist.

Really, I'm not Clerith. But I'm no Cloti, Clack or Zerith either...

I'm really...

*drumroll*

Spoiler: dun dun dun

CLANAKI

 

[Shadowfox]

Aerith on the other hand had never met Cloud before and had a thing for him instantly. That was genuine relationshipy type feelings that grew into what I think was real love.

It could be argued that Aerith had met Cloud before. Don't forget, Cloud in Disc 1 had more than a little Zack in him; mannerisms, fighting styles, habits. It was these Zack reminders that she was instantly attracted to.

 

[Celes Chere]

Okay, so she's an important woman to cloud, so? My best female friend is important to me too. That doesn't mean I'm meant to be with her.

Right, but consider the quote: "I knew one thing was for sure- Cloud and Tifa would be together, everyone would be where they belonged" (by Nojima) along with the fact that Cloud and Tifa are raising a family, overcoming problems and growing closer to one another, and Cloud mentioning he wants to start a new life with her, and then tell me how this is a mere friendship bond. It was already stated that they were in 'dim' love in the past, but no-where does it state that that love faded. In fact, it states the opposite in FFVII when Cloud claims that nothing has changed since he was a child. He also thanks Tifa especially over every one else (including Aerith), spends a night with her, and tells her such things as:
"Let's go home, Tifa"
After leaving the Lifestream together. Ah, the good ol Lifestream scene. If you remember correctly, that's when Cloud hears Tifa's heart calling out to him, and when Tifa helps Cloud return to what he truly is. I'd also like to point out, that Cloud is stated to only open his heart to Tifa, and no other woman.

There were other guys by her side yeah, but they were'nt her childhood friends. They were random avalanche people that she only recently got to know, whereas Cloud was a link to a time before she lost all her friends and family violently and tragically.
And she told himn nothing else mattered in the world besides him? That could also mean absolutely nothing. If you think you're in love with someone, then that is something that would go hand in hand with that thought whether it's true or not.
The evidence on both sides is flimsy, but from my own life experiences and everything, I can only see Clerith being something that would work out...had Aeris not died of course

I'm not talking about the people in Avalanche, I'm talking about Tifa's actual past. She had three other boys surrounding her (or was it two?) all the time, and Cloud was never included in that group because he got into fights often, and felt that they were stupid. She could have chosen any of those other guys to be her shoulder to lean on, her hero, etc, but she chose Cloud specifically. Tifa is in love. She saved herself for one man throughout childhood, and now after reconstructing his very being, lives with him and helps raise a family.

 

[KissTheRain]

are you stating that Cloud is thinking romantically of Aerith, and wants her (possibly sexually)? Or are you just offering that up for the sake of argument?

Haha, well it’s complicated..xD
Okay, I just think that if it was referring to Cloud having “feelings” for Aerith after AC, such as in the DoC manual it would be considered romantic. Not in a sexual way though, like he just still loves her and she has a place in his heart. But “feelings” was also a word used for Tifa so she seems to be getting romantic points with Cloud too. And I don’t want an argument, I want a discussion. :3

Are you one of those fans that believes Tifa is a tragic character? Just wondering.

Why yes I do. ^^
….BUT I consider many FF characters tragic. They have all had awful pasts, so I believe many to be or have quite tragic moments. Even Aerith I consider tragic at points in the game, same with everyone else in AVALANCE following Aerith’s death seeing it was a tragic time. Tifa falls in with all of them. And I think the story of C/T is quite tragic and Tifa is part of it.

There's just one thing about Aerith that stands out- he needs her forgiveness. He never got his closure with Aerith, and she is the only one that can heal him from this sense of guilt he has for her. Now, this doesn't make it love.

I understand all that, but then it continues into the DoC manual saying that Cloud still doesn’t forget Aerith, with no mention of Zack I must say. Love is an undying feeling imo, really. U.U So if Cloud did love Tifa as children it would make sense he still did, but it is only called a crush so far.

Cherishing Aerith is Tifa's honest feeling

Yup, I know that I’m quite the AerTi extremist. xD

I don't believe that Cloud loves Aerith romantically at all, I don't believe he ever did. What she is , is a friend. There is no proof that he ever "got over Tifa". In fact, there is plenty of proof stating that their love never faded, and only grew.

Lol, the thing is many Clerith’s view everything you said oppositely. They think he does in fact love Aerith, and did get over his crush with Tifa. xD Sadly, none of us are Cloud so we will never actually know how he has or does feel on the girls 100%.

Wow this thread is absolutely made of completely useless nonsense.

That’s what most debate is. XD Plus it is about fictional characters to add to how pointless this is..

I think Tifa doesn't quite know what she's feeling…

That could make sense for VII, but Tifa obviously had a deep crush imo on Cloud in CC and the only tragedy that happened so far was her mother’s death.

Aerith on the other hand had never met Cloud before and had a thing for him instantly. That was genuine relationshipy type feelings that grew into what I think was real love.

I always looked at Aerith as a fresh start for both him and her from their previous relationships, which was always quite nice. :3

 

[Celes Chere]

All in all KTR, I'm trying to say is that I need proof and evidence (quotes would be nice <3) from the Clerith side to be present in order for me to fully understand how Cloud got over Tifa, and is in love with Aerith.

I must admit that I have always been fond of the fresh start idea, though unfortunately for that side, that's all it is- an idea. Facts are golden in a debate, after all.

 

[Dashell]

My problem with the "Aerith didn't know Cloud" argument is that neither did Tifa until the lifestream event.

They were not childhood friends. You bring up the promise again and again, ... so I can only promise my friends things? How do we know she didn't say that to every guy who said, "Hey I'm going off to SOLDIER!" We know Cloud wasn't the only one because she said something about how all the boys are leaving town. It's nice that she looked up Cloud in the papers and such but... she hardly knew him.

So I really don't think it's fair to expect "Aerith didn't know Cloud" to be a good argument when it comes to anything before the lifestream event

 

[Celes Chere]

My problem with the "Aerith didn't know Cloud" argument is that neither did Tifa until the lifestream event.

That's not true. Tifa is described as the only woman who knows Cloud's past, and that she is the key to returning Cloud to who he really is. She is also the only person who can accomplish this task. Also, Tifa knew that something was wrong with Cloud from the very beginning. If she didn't, what reason would she have for hiding information that could potentially harm him and bring him to realize the truth?

They were not childhood friends.

Yes, they were. I'm not sure how many official quotes I have to post before you believe me.

How do we know she didn't say that to every guy who said, "Hey I'm going off to SOLDIER!" We know Cloud wasn't the only one because she said something about how all the boys are leaving town. It's nice that she looked up Cloud in the papers and such but... she hardly knew him.

How do we know she didn't say that? Because the creators of the story would have told us if such a thing happened. I must say, that trying to bring in "how do you know"s and "What if"s isn't going to fly. Because again, I could say:
How do we know that Zack doesn't feel Cloud up every time he's off screen?

They weren't as close, and this is admitted during the Lifestream.
"It's true, we weren't that close but..."
That doesn't mean they weren't friends.

It's not all about Aerith not knowing Cloud, either. It's the fact that she's not over Zack herself.

 

[Channy]

THAT close? I dunno how close you have to be to make a promise to someone, but never inviting your childhood friend to come play with you or ever interacting with them is an odd thing for a childhood friend to do. They only ever have one good interaction with eachother and that's the Promise scene. Other than that, Tifa could give two shits about Cloud and Cloud was too much of a douche to really try make friends.

 

[Celes Chere]

Tifa said it, not me. Give her a break, too. Cloud was awkward and getting into fights all the time. Not to mention, that her Mom dies during her childhood. Pardon her if she's not eager to jump on the happy wagon.

It's one of those things where she didn't realize what she had, until it was gone. It's sweet what she does to try and show her affections for him thereafter. It's sweet of Cloud for having Tifa as his main reason for a lot of the things he does. How is that not love? The promise scene may be the only visibly seen positive, but it is a strong positive that effects both of their lives to a great degree.

And, finally, if they are officially written as childhood friends, they are. It has nothing to do with an opinion. Fact > Opinion.

 

[Dashell]

That's not true. Tifa is described as the only woman who knows Cloud's past, and that she is the key to returning Cloud to who he really is. She is also the only person who can accomplish this task. Also, Tifa knew that something was wrong with Cloud from the very beginning. If she didn't, what reason would she have for hiding information that could potentially harm him and bring him to realize the truth?

AFTER the lifestream thing happened.
If they were such close friends as kids, why was Cloud unsure as to whether or not Tifa would show up when he asked her to at the watertower?

Yes, they were. I'm not sure how many official quotes I have to post before you believe me.

Tifa knew Cloud yes, she currently knows him better than anyone, yes. He made a promise to her, yes. I guess I consider friends people who hang out together, goof together, talk to one another and the lifestream event made me think that Cloud wanted this, but ... they just weren't that close. As you said. TO me that makes me think that they weren't close friends.

Young Cloud "You were so busy with your own things, it's only natural you don't remember me back then."

Tifa "'Back then'?"

She doesn't remember him that well.

Tifa "My room?"

Young Cloud "It was my first time there."

Tifa "Was... it?"

Young Cloud "I only used to look up at it from outside."

So he's her close friend but he only looked into her room from outside?

Acquaintances, maybe, but not friends.

 

[Madame Mayor]

It's nice that she looked up Cloud in the papers and such but... she hardly knew him.

Yet she was still interested, even before he said he was leaving for SOLDIER. And when Tifa meets Cloud again right before FFVII begins she knows right away he's not himself. Her feelings for him were there before his Zack-persona, and when she unveils his real self in the lifestream, that's the Cloud she fell for.

So I really don't think it's fair to expect "Aerith didn't know Cloud" to be a good argument when it comes to anything before the lifestream event

But Aerith knows she doesn't really know Cloud. That's the whole point of their date. She wants Cloud to open up to her, but he's not. She wants to believe that her feelings for him are more than just what she felt for Zack resurfacing. Their date really works against this idea of them being in love already before her death.

If they were such close friends as kids, why was Cloud unsure as to whether or not Tifa would show up when he asked her to at the watertower?

Welcome to the world of boys and girls dating. By asking her out there it was more than "just a friend" type of thing, of course he's nervous.

 

[Celes Chere]

@Quexy-

In response, read what I said about Fact Vs Opinion. That is my response.

 

[Channy]

Yeah but how good of childhood friends could they have been if Tifa was wrapped up in her own things and Cloud was being a little punk who nobody likes. Again, they don't show any interaction other than the Promise and that's just one night. I've gotten further with friends who weren't from childhood.

 

[Mr. Flibble]

Now that I think of it, This:

THAT close? I dunno how close you have to be to make a promise to someone, but never inviting your childhood friend to come play with you or ever interacting with them is an odd thing for a childhood friend to do. They only ever have one good interaction with eachother and that's the Promise scene. Other than that, Tifa could give two shits about Cloud and Cloud was too much of a douche to really try make friends.

And I think I'mm have to bow out of this discussion. You include all the fanfic evidence compilation evidence and all the other rubbish they added in afterwards and I have no knowledge of any of that stuff so I feel pretty out of my depth

 

[Dashell]

And, finally, if they are officially written as childhood friends, they are. It has nothing to do with an opinion. Fact > Opinion.

Okay I'm going to have to apologize in advance. I did NOT know there was an official statement saying so, I really didn't. I'm sure it's been posted but this thread goes by very fast so could you please post it again and I promise I will drop it.

 

[Celes Chere]

@ Channy: Didn't read a dern thing I said, did ya hun?

@Quexy: Watch this post. It will be edited with your information. ._.;

--
Apart from being Cloud's childhood friend,
she is also the woman who understands him all too well and devotedly supports the mentally-weak side of him. Although she seems spirited and cheerful, she actually has a family-oriented and modest personality, often paying attention to her surroundings.
--
Quote: text near images of Tifa in the church with Marlene and smiling at her
I want to see Cloud -- Marlene's honest words, which reflected what Tifa felt in her own heart, caused her to smile. The present Tifa isn't just Cloud's childhood friend, but also the mother of the 'family' they were forming in Edge.
--
Quote: text near image of Tifa smiling on the Sierra
Tifa, watching over Cloud warmly as he regains the strength to move forward.
Having been together with him since they were young, she is able to believe in his recovery for certain.
--
Link to FF7 Series

The only woman who knows Cloud&#8217;s past

In FF7, Tifa is the only one who knows Cloud&#8217;s childhood, and furthermore, she holds the key to people involved in the story of Nibelheim&#8217;s burning down, which is also depicted in CC. She and Cloud came to realize their feelings for each other in the end of the story, and live together in AC and DC.

Quote: Text near the image of FF7 with Cloud saying &#8220;Za&#8230;.ck&#8230;Zack&#8230;&#8221; and Tifa&#8217;s &#8220;You remember it!&#8221;
Tifa becomes the only witness to Cloud&#8217;s blurry memory, and she also plays an important role in regaining his true self.

 

[Dashell]

That's not true. Tifa is described as the only woman who knows Cloud's past, and that she is the key to returning Cloud to who he really is.

This one right?

EDIT
OH I thought your reply there was directed at me, sorry. Yes please post it

 

[Channy]

But it's not just opinion. People who spend one day interacting with each other, aren't normally that close to each other.

 

[Madame Mayor]

And I think I'mm have to bow out of this discussion. You include all the fanfic evidence compilation evidence and all the other rubbish they added in afterwards and I have no knowledge of any of that stuff so I feel pretty out of my depth

The original game is more than enough to show you that Cloud and Tifa are romantically involved, and that Cloud and Aerith never had anything beyond a special connection. But for those who for some reason didn't see that (or more likely didn't want to), they added in these extra statements/books, etc, to explain it further.

 

[Tennyo]

lawl New thread title is win.

 

[Celes Chere]

Quexy and Channy- Read my edited post.

Sorry, but it is your opinion. ;(

And I noticed you said normally. Wouldn't that make Cloud and Tifa's relationship stronger since it rises above the norm?

 

[Makoeyes987]

If they were such close friends as kids, why was Cloud unsure as to whether or not Tifa would show up when he asked her to at the watertower?

Because people are never shy about the people they have a crush on right? Even if they know each other?

No Quexinos, they weren't buddy buddy, but they were close and the fact Tifa never stopped thinking of Cloud, and made him make that promise stems from that bond. They were fucking kids, for Christ's sake. The reason she didn't remember "back then" was due to the trauma of losing her mother and how she was completely consumed in her grief. The fact she also fell into a coma after falling in Mt. Nibel probably didn't help things either. She also blacked out on what happened during the Nibelheim massacre as well.

Now that I think of it, This:


And I think I'mm have to bow out of this discussion. You include all the fanfic evidence compilation evidence and all the other rubbish they added in afterwards and I have no knowledge of any of that stuff so I feel pretty out of my depth

Your concession is accepted. The fact you don't want to accept the scenario written by the creator's of the game doesn't change the fact that its the truth. It's been there since the beginning.