I would like to know also. I just asked my Japanese friend (yes he really is Japanese and I literally just asked him over MSN) and he said it sounds like "forever love" but we didn't get to discuss it in detail because he had to go.
In an interview Nojima says:
In other words he's running away from " the something warm" that Tifa wants herself. However that's not to say that Cloud does not want this "something warm" too as it wouldn't make much sense if he didn't desire something "warm".
As Nojima parallels this something warm to whatever Tifa wanted in AC/C it sounds like the idea of family and/or comfort.
In an AC, quote, it is said he runs from his comfort, so yeah, it would all seem to fit.
I meant I took their word regarding the themes of KH and KH2 because I haven't played enough of the games or seen enough of the cut scenes in order to be able to make a conclusion on what the themes are and if they are at all different myself.
I was highlighting it for the sake of drawing a similarity between Aerith and Cloud in KH2. They are both humans composing of both light and darkness whereas Tifa is a being of light only. However as Ryu has brought up, Kairi is also a being of light so this argument for Clerith is actually void.
If anything the fact that Tifa and Kairi are both light and try to give their light to their love interests and that Kairi's love is reciprocated, actually moves the idea of Cloud = mix and Tifa = light in favour of Cloti.
Which is why so much effort has been put into making Tifa not the light from certain camps.
Point taken but the characters of FFVII certainly seem true to their original personalities, relationships and roles within the original FFVII game. Cloud in particular.
I'm not denying the particulars, just saying it as an overarcing principle.
This is where typical Clerith evidence comes in:
"Cloud carries his own undying feelings for Aerith, even to this very day..." (what exactly the bit in bold means is also being discussed/is up to interpretation)
Aerith is the only one who made him laugh
I don't think laughing at her expense is quite the same as making him laugh, but that might be semantics whoring.
He was upset over her death
He moves into her church to spend the last of his days before his death
Well, he moved into the church for forgiveness so he wouldn't die, I think, but pfeh.
He lingers over her memory even two years later
And so on.
Well, as with 'upset by', he was upset by Zack's death and lingers over that two years later too.
To be fair, I think it's an understandable interpretation that Cloud did fall for Aerith prior to the Lifestream event but once he realised his feelings for Tifa and got his original self back, Tifa was who the 100%-real-him naturally wanted to be with.
Understandable, given the shell game of disc 1, but hard to determine.
http://www.clerith.com/Inner Light.htm
Sora himself struggles with understanding his own inner light and darkness as he learns about his other self, the Nobody Roxas.
Except he doesn't really. He doesn't worry about darkness, even with the onset of heartless form. He's more curious about who and what Roxas was than any implications of light and dark.
However he also talks about internal /light from within in KH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_jnW4l-IyU @7:50 so inner light isn't actually anything new afterall.
The idea of a general theme of inner light is taken from
:
Hercules is seen overcoming that darkness and finding the light within himself once again in time to help Sora find a way to help Auron and to rescue Meg from Hades.
But Herc wasn't dealing with a darkness, but rather a lack of confidence, which is different from Darkness.
Once Simba regains his confidence and finds his own inner light, he’s able to banish Scar’s ghost and cleanse the Pride Lands.[/quote]
I may simply be misremembering, but while Simba regains his confidence, there's no real emphasis on inner light, as far as I can recall.
Sora and the others however help Beast to find the good within him again, allowing him to conquer the darkness of his anger and defeat Xaldin.[/quote]
Again, sounds like an insistence that these things mean light and dark rather than showing them to be.
Hell, the fact that they gloss over the whole issue of what is supposed to be an entire thematic element of the game as 'Oh, yah, it ttly is. Ttly.' makes me want to hit something. That's just being egregiously lazy.
Well I guess we have to accept that it's also fair to interpret that scene as Cloud looking for his light because as you have highlighted there, it's just down to how each
person interprets it.
In KH alone, it's possible, but as of KH:FM, not so much, since he specifies later he's 'finally found Sephiroth,' and indicates no other search.
Clerith.com "About Nomura's comments on KH1" essay:
Sora tells Kairi that he is always with her and promises to come back to her. Aladdin wants to find his love Jasmine, Tarzan goes to find Jane in the tree house after Clayton abducts her, and Beast wants to find Beauty. Beast even refuses to leave Hollow Bastion until he is reunited with Beauty. Geppetto wants Sora to find Pinocchio, and he tells Sora on the boat in Monstro that Pinocchio is precious to him. Nomura makes it clear in another interview with the Ultimania Guide to Kingdom Hearts that one's light is indeed the "light of the heart":
And they don't pause for a second to think about the fact that Pinnochio and Gheppeto are in there, or that 'light of the heart' means something totally squick in light of that if it's romantic?
Interviewer: About Rikku being the rightful owner of the Keyblade - why is it that Sora had the Keyblade first?
Nomura: That part is also a bit vague. In the Destiny Islands when Riku is swallowed by the darkness, there's a sparkle of light, and next comes the scene where Sora first gets the Keyblade, right? In my setting, the darkness wrapping itself around those two is the darkness of Riku's heart. At the moment when Sora enters that darkness, the light you can see is the light of the heart.
This statement indicates that one's light is truly the light of your heart. In each world, Sora confronts a situation where the light of your heart is shown to be that which is dear to you.
So basically it's supported that light = who's dear to you. As Aerith is a potential love interest in FFVII and she's of the opposite sex, it ispossible to assume that 'dear one' turns to romantic love in the case of Cloud and Aerith in KH.
Possible to assume. Not insist as undeniable fact, as occurred, and still occurs at times.
And 'that which is dear to you', which can be any number of things, such as friends, family, children, etc. etc. etc. Not 'romantic' by nature, but by possibility. And KH2 doesn't change that fact of the cosmology.
Well I think that's the point. Sora is looking for Kairi in KH and it could be interpreted that Cloud is also looking for a someone other than Sephiroth (his light) and since special focus is given to his meeting up with Aerith in the credits it's not so far-fetched to think Aerith is his romantic interest like Sora's is Kairi.
If he had ever found his light or stopped looking like he has because he was corrupted by the dark, perhaps, but he looks just as embedded with dark in the end as he does in the start. Contrast to Riku (Rikku the true owner of the keyblade, HA!) who returns to his uncorrupted appearance upon renouncing the dark's control. Of course, even setting that aside, he didn't find or go to Aerith or any of the other Bastioners. Cid dragged him back, and come the sequel, he's off again.
However that only actually makes sense if Aerith is indeed his light (otherwise she can't be the 'light' he's looking for) but since Kairi is actually a being of light to Sora, this is the same as what Tifa is in KH2 to Cloud, and Aerith is actually said to be a stable mix and not just of light, the argument no longer makes much sense..
If anyone has this clearer in their head please share, especially if you're a Clerith. I may have missed something.
So
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_jnW4l-IyU @ 4:19 - 4:32 for anyone else who wants to look.
It doesn't look exactly the same as in the Tifa and Cloud scene but I see what you mean. Light isn't
necessarily passed along like a ball (like when Sora gives his light to the princesses), in some instances a load of flashing and glowing occurs.
Yeah, I'm aware the first one is different, but the second one, including the different colors, was the one I was initially referring to.
And also possibly when Maleficent is talking to Riku about unleashing his power and then he begins to glow green?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhmchA5RxSg @ 14:06-14:28
Yeah, more or less.
So essentially the idea of family and comfort.
Pretty much.
I just mean 'happiness' is a very simplified way of clumping it all together, really.
Yet again that's a good thing to know.
All the mini scenes including those of Pinnochio and Gheppetto and Daisy and Minny show characters meeting up with those who are dear to them, which means Aerith must be dear to Cloud. As his meeting with her is given more focus over his other friends it could be seen as conveying a relationship of more than friendship.
Daisy and Minnie... God damn, Mickey and Donald will either be pissed as hell or happy as punch.
Seriously, though, my point is that with Ghep and Pinn and Minn and Dai, the tone has definitely shifted. And unlike the folks whose romance has been established during the game itself (even those for whom it was damn redundant) there was no such establishment during game for the Ghep/Pinn (Thankfully), C/A, or D/M.
Except that there is greater focus on Aerith and Cloud meeting than with any of the other FF characters.
Yes, but there's no reaction at all, unlike all the other things. They're all glad to see him, but he's... meh.
I'm afraid I don't know what TTGL is. Is Kamina actually a big brother, just a friend, are they both of the same sex?
Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. Kamina is not a literal big brother but fills a similar role (Consider him the Zack to Simon's Cloud), and yes, Simon and Kamina are both male. Simon's love interest is a girl he finds in a box (no lie) named Nia, who gets entirely the short end of the stick by the second half of the series.
Sora glows yellow like Cloud, how interesting. And the dialogue of 7:09 onwards sounds like Cloud's predicament in KH2.
QED, I guess.
Anyway, when Sora's light enters the princesses you don't see a second flash occur but perhaps this is because they are unconcious because you do when Kairi saves Sora.
Yeah, there's something different about the first instance, but it might have something to do with using Riku's Dark Keyblade to pierce his own heart to release both his and their light, so it might just be the device causing the difference.
One of my friends found it posted on some website, and I just now remembered it's existence.
Not sure what website it was, though.
Ha, talk about no contest. Aerith would whoop her sorry ass.
Pre- Sorceress power, more than even chance, I'd say, both are non coms with experience evading military and paramilitary organizations. Post Sorceress power... not so much.
And the 'undying feels' blurb comes from Pre-AC promotion, specifically 'feelings that are not dying' while DOC just says he won't forget her. Then again, it ALSO says Cloud is ex-SOLDIER...
Indeed.
FALSE.
. 