The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Ryushikaze]

At no time is Tifa ever explicity required.

Second Reactor assault, assault on the pillar, when she's party leader, and even if you completely remove her from your party, she's still in vital scenes late game. Specifically, Tifa is explicitly required to set Cloud's mind straight. She's required to spend the night with Cloud, etc.

Okay, but can you provide a quote? Because I've still no idea what you're talking about. I don't go digging through every little piece of literature to try and prove my theory right, I just let my imagination go with it.

That may just be the problem in the first place.

wat?

You're assuming the consequent. SHOW that he has romantic intent for Aerith before basing arguments on it.

Also, I'd just like to say that I have no doubt that you people might be right. Cloud could love Tifa. The reason being behind all this LTD is that he hasn't shown affectionate feelings towards her. Why? Cause Aerith is dead.

No this isn't to say ZOMG HE HAS AFFAR WIF HUR, it's a justification of his feelings. The two were quite close by the end of Disk one, and to see her die in front of his eyes is probably a very traumatic experience. But because of that he's not just gonna go "Kay, well I lost one, I still got another. TIFAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" It's (I want to say rude but I know that's not the right word...) inconsiderate(?) to just drop her like she meant nothing and pick up on a new relationship.

WHAT new relationship? There's no OLD relationship. Hell, Tifa IS the old relationship!

Cloud's grieving. Yeah. We all see it. I know that if I lost someone dear to me, a potentional love interest, I wouldn't be so healed easily of the pain to just go and jump in another relationship.

You're STILL ASSUMING THE ROMANTIC INTENT.

Plus, the creators have been waving the LT in our faces for so long without firmly confirming who he loves. Why? Because it'll piss off an enourmous amount of fangirls. Quite like how ya'll are getting riled up right now.

If I'm getting riled up, it is because of the terrible logic I am seeing employed.
Let's use the April Fool's post as an example. I wrote things. People read things into those statements. Sometimes ridiculous things not even implied in the nonsense written. That's the LT.
You aren't 'waving the LT' in someone's face when you say Cloud belongs with Tifa. That they realize their mutual feelings for each other and confirm them later. That the dialogue under the highwind is risque.

Yeah but i could argue that because aeris was eventually going to die, having her in your party continously, and then dieing is very unfair for the player i know quite a few people were outraged because she died purely because they trained her up loads of levels, so u can only imagine how people would react if she was always in your party.

... Cloud is not the player. This is entirely irrelevant.

Also cloud spent lots of time talking with aeris throughout the game.

And with Tifa. Your point?

Well considering the two demonstrate alot of flirty banter between one another during their time together. It's no more factual than Cloud still loves Tifa.

Such as? Are you referring to when ZaCloud makes fun of her? Because Cloud's utterly oblivious to her intentions.

And channy, I began these debates arguing against 6 to 1 odds, and I still managed to adequately present facts and arguments in support of my position. It's got nothing to do with numbers.

And the Clerith forum members are free to come here. Unlike that site, TLS does not autoban for arguing a different opinion.

 

[Username]

whoah ryu likes to get his point across

Anyway to your rather mine-ute responces to my post:

Cloud is not the player i agree, but the creators of the game could not possibly of made aeris available constantly, that would just be silly. So the point you made about tifa being in the party most of the time is also irrelevant, so we can both call that quits.

Also cloud does speak a lot with tifa, but i think he speaks a lot more with aeris, considering how many times i remember seeing him talk to aeris when she was alive, it was a fair few, more than tifa...the person he has known since a little kid.

 

[Shadowfox]

Also cloud does speak a lot with tifa, but i think he speaks a lot more with aeris, considering how many times i remember seeing him talk to aeris when she was alive, it was a fair few, more than tifa...the person he has known since a little kid.

Are we counting the number of conversations to measure love now? This isn't that much different from saying things like, "Cloud said Aeris' name 60 times throughout the game, that means he must love her tha-aaaaat much."

 

[Ryushikaze]

whoah ryu likes to get his point across

Ryu has internet connection issues when he is engaging in a bandwidth heavy OS update.

Anyway to your rather mine-ute responces to my post:

Cloud is not the player i agree, but the creators of the game could not possibly of made aeris available constantly, that would just be silly. So the point you made about tifa being in the party most of the time is also irrelevant, so we can both call that quits.

But that's NOT my point. MY point is that Tifa is placed in the party at every possible opportunity BY THE MAKERS in two officially released 'playthroughs' of the game, such as they are. It's worth mentioning Memorial Album also included Tifa's date and High Highwind version.

Also cloud does speak a lot with tifa, but i think he speaks a lot more with aeris, considering how many times i remember seeing him talk to aeris when she was alive, it was a fair few, more than tifa...the person he has known since a little kid.

Even if numerically more, what about the tone and substance of these conversations? If I say hi to a guy every day, it doesn't mean I like him more than a friend I speak with once a week.

 

[Max Payne]

She took a stroll through his freakin head and totally missed the Cleris love. Tifa's just blind and delusional.

LOL.

 

[Isabella]

Repeat after me: Disc one is designed to mislead.

I swear, this is arguably the most important point in any LTD, and it's the one that no one except maybe me and Ryu seems to care about.

 

[Tennyo]

I care about it. What good story is straight forward from the get go? Plot twists are what make it good.

 

[Username]

But still, your saying tifa is placed in the party at every oppotunity as if this means something, and like i said, aeris COULD have also got that role if she didn't end up dieing, but the makers had common sence and decided not to include her in the party too much, because she ends up dieing.

 

[Tennyo]

Coulda shoulda woulda, doesn't make it any more true. What matters is what did happen, not what didn't but could have in some alternate reality.

 

[Username]

The thing is, if in some added storyline announcement, cloud did admit to tifa he loved aeris, but still loved tifa, you would all suddenly happily agree with me and would suddenly understand why he loved aeris all along, just because of the fact it was official, thats all i'm saying.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Repeat after me: Disc one is designed to mislead.

I swear, this is arguably the most important point in any LTD, and it's the one that no one except maybe me and Ryu seems to care about.

FF7 is built to set up certain expectations, then kidneypunch you by slapping them all down.

But still, your saying tifa is placed in the party at every oppotunity as if this means something, and like i said, aeris COULD have also got that role if she didn't end up dieing, but the makers had common sence and decided not to include her in the party too much, because she ends up dieing.

Think about this line of logic for a moment. Aerith ends up dying. So they don't give her these roles. So why would they give her the role of 'love interest' when she's only going to die anyways?

But that's a silly argument anyways, Aerith is supposed to be initially attractive to the player, by her overpowered limits, so they grow attached to her, so the disc one twist is all the more wrenching for you the player.

The thing is, if in some added storyline announcement, cloud did admit to tifa he loved aeris, but still loved tifa, you would all suddenly happily agree with me and would suddenly understand why he loved aeris all along, just because of the fact it was official, thats all i'm saying.

Actually, we'd admit that he apparently did, but the 'why' is not inherent in such an announcement. For example, even with such an announcement, I'd be looking for and requesting evidence of such, so that we could better understand the process as well.

I can point both in and out of game to evidence supporting the point I am attempting to make. I can craft wholly consistent and parsimonious explanations. I need no mental gymnastics to explain Cloud's behavior from moment to moment. As a theory, I say, with no ego, that such an explanation is by definition superior to one based entirely on if and supposition.

Like Tenny said, that's still should woulda coulda talk.
If Crap were Krugerrands, and all that.

 

[Username]

So why havent they come out with a confirmation about cloud loving tifa? i know its all about keeping the debating going on, but at the end of the day with all the evidence you may have, you have the superior evidence because cloud for 1 knew tifa for a long time and aeris for a short time, and 2 because cloud has to become attached to one of them and quite simply, tifa was the one he has known forever and is still alive.

I feel the creators have set it up very interestingly so it is like a "what if" storyline, Aeris loved zack, but may have loved cloud, but only loved cloud because zack was dead, it is rather interesting that cloud could of loved aeris but will never admit it now she's dead. Its kinda like a opposite effect, even if it has no appeal, it is a very simliar but contrasted effect.

 

[Ⓐaron]

They haven't come out with a confirmation because discussions like this generate interest in the franchise and thereby sell more video games. Simple.

 

[Fighter]

How much more confirmation do you need?

These discussions wont stop no matter what. Just look at Harry Potter.

 

[Username]

Well that cloud had sex with tifa under the highwind, well thats not much evidence really.

I remember u fighter..hi

 

[Fighter]

Well that cloud had sex with tifa under the highwind, well thats not much evidence really.

Maybe too much information actually.

I remember u fighter..hi

I remember you too.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Well that cloud had sex with tifa under the highwind, well thats not much evidence really.

I remember u fighter..hi

You do know what 'words aren't the only way to tell people how you feel' is sexual innuendo, right? Unless sexual, that's not risque/ bordering on impropriety/ suggestive.

 

[Celes Chere]

Well that cloud had sex with tifa under the highwind, well thats not much evidence really.

It's more evidence than CloudxAerith will ever have.

 

[Ⓐaron]

There's also the fact that he lives with her, starts a family with her, etc., etc, You're grossly oversimplifying matters. If he were living a lie in all that, it would be a major plot point with his character. It's not.

in short, your claim that it's "all the evidence" CxT has is at best oversimplifying matters and at worst downright dishonest.

 

[Channy]

Jesus there's much too much to reply to since I left.

I'm just gonna make a few short points, without complicating it by multi quoting.

Ryu, just want to say that by Cloud being insensitive to jump into a new relationship with Tifa doesn't mean I said that he was in an old relationship with Aeris. No need to caps me out. ;D kthx.

Also Isabella, I may not be showing up hard evidence to why Cloud loves Aeris, but neither are you on showing that he loves Tifa more. Tifa says LOADS to him about loving him, but not often does he reciprocate.

Also, she's most often in the later disks because Aeris isn't there. Then again I wouldn't know, I swapped her out for Yuffie as often as possible. But if you gameshark your VII, Aeris still manages to be there when she shouldn't. osnap its a ghost O:

Also, I'm still waiting on these creator quotes ya'll have gone on about. Not very convincing guys.

And Aaron, he starts a family with her by stealing Barret's daughter and an orphan sent to him from Aeris. He lives with her but he lives more at the church. I smell a divorce. :3

 

[Ⓐaron]

Because couples never adopt orphaned children? Also, it's pretty clearly established by plot events that Cloud leaves due to his overwhelming lack of confidence in himself, not due to any dissatisfaction with the relationship per sé.

 

[A]

Also Isabella, I may not be showing up hard evidence to why Cloud loves Aeris, but neither are you on showing that he loves Tifa more. Tifa says LOADS to him about loving him, but not often does he reciprocate.

-She's the only one he opened his heart to.
-Showing signs of affection such as blushing, brushing against her cheek, etc.
-Nomura stating that they'll always be together.











































-KOIBITO.

And Aaron, he starts a family with her by stealing Barret's daughter and an orphan sent to him from Aeris. He lives with her but he lives more at the church. I smell a divorce. :3

You mean Barret's daughter, whom Barret entrusted Tifa and Cloud with, and also: it's not confirmed whether or not Aerith sent them that child. That's what Tifa and Cloud think. Also, he lives at the church right after he finds out he gets Geostigma, in a result from wanting to protect Tifa and the kids. In the Dirge of Cerberus handbook it states that they reveal their mutual feelings for each other and end up living together. Then in Cloud's timeline in the Ultimania or whatevah-mah-jig, it states that he 'returns to Tifa and the kids' - did I mention that Cloud and Tifa will always be together?

 

[Channy]

Not as much as Aeris will be in Cloud's heart forever and ever. Don't make me get angry Clorith on your ass! ...ahh who am I kidding, too tired for that atm.

I'm curious as to when he blushes, I wasn't sure that the those miniscule nearly blank faces and giant club like hands were capable of blushing and stroking.

 

[A]

Not as much as Aeris will be in Cloud's heart forever and ever. Don't make me get angry Clorith on your ass! ...ahh who am I kidding, too tired for that atm.

You mean along with the rest of the gang?

Koitbitooooooooooooooooo

I'm curious as to when he blushes, I wasn't sure that the those miniscule nearly blank faces and giant club like hands were capable of blushing and stroking.

Oh youz. Have you played CC or watched Last Order yet?

 

[Channy]

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS! D=

Yeah, on both counts. but he doesn't have much interaction with Tifa in CC, and LO is just... yeah