The First Epic LTD of TLS forums

[Channy]

I don't get the mother shit. Isn't Tifa moar motherly considering she's the one with the kids/orphans spamming up her residence and preventing hot Cloud sex from happening?

Well maybe Cloti is a real modern day relationship. Once you have kids, the spark and the sex just disappears.

 

[Celes Chere]

There are two different kinds of Mother here.

Aerith is a Mother to Cloud, and the entire planet.

Tifa is a Mother to his family.

MMKAY?

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Well maybe Cloti is a real modern day relationship. Once you have kids, the spark and the sex just disappears.

They do complicate it, that's for sure... **sigh**

Ok, ok, back to Cloud and Tifa.

I think you're right in that they are a more modernized version of a fantasy relationship, and therefore flawed and complicated. But not diminished by that, quite the opposite. This struggle strengthens them--as most struggles do.

 

[ShuShu]

Since when is it insecure to want to show physical affection in public? I do it all the time with my bf. Why? Because we're not ashamed or afraid to be affectionate in public. imo you're more insecure with your relationship if you feel the need to hide it from the prying eyes of the public.

As for Yuna's confession, I think it had more to do with devastation. I know I'd be heart broken if I just heard that confession from the one I loved right before I had to go back to not existing. It's a cruel harsh moment.

I missed joo, Im sorreh D':

I find it insecure because thats how I was raised. I dont need the whole world to see I love someone, just loving them is enough for me. Having them love me back is an even more cherishable gift, I've enough. Their is no need to go through the embarressment of seeming clingy, or obnoxious, by hanging all over eachother, kissing infront of our friends, whom might have troubles buried in their hearts concerning love, and other rude things people may not even consider or know its rude, but to me if you hurt someone, meant it, and dont regret it, it makes you a rude person, wether you meant it or not.

And Yuna confessed, it is a harsh confession, but why had their relationship not been completely stabilized from the moment of the kiss? Cloud and Tifa could have done anything and everything on the night of the highwind, but it doesnt mean they are in a solid relationship right off the bat. I really think Cloud and Tifa have a relationship, Its just not a very vocal one. Whatever they did it was deserving of the title 'Risque' and gave Tifa the impression that they were together. "Do you love me?" She has to have the suspicion he once did to ever even assume. Tifa is a demure, and shy girl, she wouldnt just assume Cloud might have feelings for her, she knows. But when your lover becomes distant, we DO have doubts, do we not?

I want to know why Cloud and Tifa have to have x amount of physical interactions in AC/ACC in order to be a couple, or, to be Canon, when he has none with Aerith whatsoever, she's dead, and he's raising children with 'the other woman' or when he was 'dimly inlove with' the other woman as his real self. Or, how 'mutual feelings' could have been exchanged. MUTUAL. We KNOW Tifa loves Cloud. MUTUAL. If that isnt "Canon = Win", then wtf is?

 

[Ryushikaze]

And also I come back around to why does the mother thing matter so much? Both women are romantic interests, motherly or not. Neither one of them actually popped out Cloud.

It's a blow because Cloud gets the Momma vibe off Aerith, not Tifa.

Lawnwolf, out of curiosity, how is the 'stealing a truck' scene a highly pivotal scene? Or the launching of the Ragnaroks in VIII?
How is the lifestream NOT pivotal? Cloud's journey to Sephiroth is given FMV, but no such luck for the fight.
And for that matter, are we supposed to take the Creation of SeeD, the creation of Squall and Rinoa's promise, the revelation of Cecil and Golbez's past as non important simply because none of them were in FMV?

 

[null.]

I also noticed that I'm being ignored. It aggravated me.

After a few years you get used to it. And you also learn to shorten your posts.

Both women are romantic interests

Quit agreeing with me! This is like the Twilight zone.

 

[HelpfullAlly]

Quit agreeing with me! This is like the Twilight zone.

Jacob Team YUP!

 

[Zee]

Quit agreeing with me! This is like the Twilight zone.

You're moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas. You just crossed over into...the Twilight Zone!

dundundundun~

 

[Channy]

I missed joo, Im sorreh D':

Yeah you damn well better be.

Also, can't really argue with the way you were raised thing. So eh.

And Yuna confessed, it is a harsh confession, but why had their relationship not been completely stabilized from the moment of the kiss? Cloud and Tifa could have done anything and everything on the night of the highwind, but it doesnt mean they are in a solid relationship right off the bat. I really think Cloud and Tifa have a relationship, Its just not a very vocal one. Whatever they did it was deserving of the title 'Risque' and gave Tifa the impression that they were together. "Do you love me?" She has to have the suspicion he once did to ever even assume. Tifa is a demure, and shy girl, she wouldnt just assume Cloud might have feelings for her, she knows. But when your lover becomes distant, we DO have doubts, do we not?

Because YunaxTidus are only 17, so it's harder to establish a mature relationship when you're traveling around the world trying to save it. And while CloudxTifa were doing that too, keep in mind they're in their 20s, not just coming out of pubescence. Tuna's hormones are all out of whack so they probly don't know what's appropriate in the current situations.

As for the Cloti thing, judging from the way you phrased that it seemed to me like a more of a one night stand situation. They did their little thing beneath the stars but after that, we don't hear any more from it. And then in CoT she's all insecure about how he feels, which is how a lot of women feel when they're falling for a guy they have a one night stand with.

He used her. D=

I want to know why Cloud and Tifa have to have x amount of physical interactions in AC/ACC in order to be a couple, or, to be Canon, when he has none with Aerith whatsoever, she's dead, and he's raising children with 'the other woman' or when he was 'dimly inlove with' the other woman as his real self. Or, how 'mutual feelings' could have been exchanged. MUTUAL. We KNOW Tifa loves Cloud. MUTUAL. If that isnt "Canon = Win", then wtf is?

I'm not saying there HAS to be physical intimacy, I'm just saying it would have been nice...
A. for the Clorith's because alot of the "facts" going around these days are still arguable
B. Because although it's an action movie it would use a little more softness to it
C. sex sells ;D

 

[ShuShu]

Because YunaxTidus are only 17, so it's harder to establish a mature relationship when you're traveling around the world trying to save it. And while CloudxTifa were doing that too, keep in mind they're in their 20s, not just coming out of pubescence. Tuna's hormones are all out of whack so they probly don't know what's appropriate in the current situations.

Cloud isnt exactly in his right mind-set age. Tifa and Cloud are mature and immature in their own ways, but its easily concluded that both are immature in stands to relationships, nether ever (to our knowledge) having one, outside of their affections for eachother.

As for the Cloti thing, judging from the way you phrased that it seemed to me like a more of a one night stand situation. They did their little thing beneath the stars but after that, we don't hear any more from it. And then in CoT she's all insecure about how he feels, which is how a lot of women feel when they're falling for a guy they have a one night stand with.

I dont think its a one night stand thing, I think its a Tidus and Yuna kiss situation. In the 'watered down' version, I think its up to interpretation, making absolute sex non-canon, but it COULD be taken that way and still make sense. I think in the chocobo stables that was pure sex-derived, but with two versions, no matter how much the other is embraced, both are considered Canon, because they both happen and can be incorporated into the story. So, wether it was a kiss, holding hands, or sex, it gave the implication of romance, and the start of a relationship, and the sharing of mutual affections.

He used her. D=

Used her for what? He said he wanted to start a LIFE with her, said it was DIFFERENT know. Whats different? Possibly the mutual affections they share and are aware of now?
Wanted to raise kids with her?
Took care of Barrets daughter like their own?
Took on Denzel has a way to cover their sins, grow together, and save a life?
Ran away from those he loves. Those he cherishes most, at the thought of losing them? Searching for a way to save them?

I think C & T have done enough for eachother, their 'children' and gotten plenty of hints from Aerith to go on and live their lives together, regardless of the past, and regardless of their sins and faults.

I'm not saying there HAS to be physical intimacy, I'm just saying it would have been nice...
A. for the Clorith's because alot of the "facts" going around these days are still arguable
B. Because although it's an action movie it would use a little more softness to it
C. sex sells ;D

It would be nice, but I think we've had enough physical intimacy between them. FF7 isnt a love story, your looking for FF8 in that department. The story isnt ALL about Cloud and Tifa and their romance, thats just a small part that furthers the real plot and development, which is life, moving on, living, family, and so on and so forth, but mainly life, and living.

I havent seen a single Clorith fact...I'd love to though.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Because YunaxTidus are only 17, so it's harder to establish a mature relationship when you're traveling around the world trying to save it. And while CloudxTifa were doing that too, keep in mind they're in their 20s, not just coming out of pubescence. Tuna's hormones are all out of whack so they probly don't know what's appropriate in the current situations.

As for the Cloti thing, judging from the way you phrased that it seemed to me like a more of a one night stand situation. They did their little thing beneath the stars but after that, we don't hear any more from it. And then in CoT she's all insecure about how he feels, which is how a lot of women feel when they're falling for a guy they have a one night stand with.

I think you may be forgetting that mentally, Cloud is still a teenager, really. He was in a tube for the latter part of his growing years, so he didn't get to do most of the growing one finishes up in his late teens-early adult years. Not to mention, there's nothing to imply he was ever in a relationship prior to that, so he's quite clueless in the relationship area of his life.

 

[Makoeyes987]

On a totally different note..

Jesus Christ, can we please stop the drive-by posting?

If you're going to post in here, then at least have the intellectual testicular fortitude to stick around and advocate your point and reply to said rebuttals instead of just posting, running off, and then just coming in again, and posting something TOTALLY IRRELEVANT as if what you last said and its rebuttal mean nothing.

You don't debate, leave the room after someone counters your argument, and then re-enter the room and say something totally different. It's absurd.

On that note, trying to say one scene is more narratively important than another because one is rendered in FMV while the other isn't is rather absurd. There's an FMV of a train going around Midgar, so that means that train is more important than Tifa and Cloud in the Lifestream. Bullocks. That's a paper thin, and flimsy argument. You can do better than that.

Nothing regarding Tifa's story leads to any confusion that requires us to doubt her, nor does Aerith's. Aerith's story accurately tells us she thinks of Cloud as a lover, and Tifa's story tells us she loves Cloud. You're not making any sense telling us we need to disbelieve Tifa's own thoughts or eyes regarding what she sees.

And I'd DEFINITELY come to a woman's aid if she was threatened sexually. How does that imply romance?

And ahh...the "Tifa's a nag" argument. That's nostalgic. Funny how the creator's seem to show Tifa's care for Cloud positively and as a catalyst for his positive change in AC. I've not once seen any commentary that Tifa was a nag. If anything, she was voicing legitimate concern over his well being.

I also laugh heartily at the argument of Tifa driving Cloud off when ACC now shows us he left to try and save Denzel. That argument is rendered moot now.

 

[Strangelove]

C. sex sells ;D

There's no sex because CGI hasn't developed to the point where they can create realistic thrusting.

I know because I spoke to am Nomura. Prove I'm not.

I don't think 'AC/FFVII isn't a romance story' is reason enough for lacking romantic scenes. How many action films tack on a romantic subplot? Just because it's not all about love doesn't mean they can't have a few scenes in there. It doesn't have to get in the way of motorbike chases and sword fights.

But I don't think that's the topic anymore, because you all post too much.

 

[Channy]

Cloud isnt exactly in his right mind-set age. Tifa and Cloud are mature and immature in their own ways, but its easily concluded that both are immature in stands to relationships, nether ever (to our knowledge) having one, outside of their affections for eachother.

Yeah, you and Celes do make a good point on that part.

I dont think its a one night stand thing, I think its a Tidus and Yuna kiss situation. In the 'watered down' version, I think its up to interpretation, making absolute sex non-canon, but it COULD be taken that way and still make sense. I think in the chocobo stables that was pure sex-derived, but with two versions, no matter how much the other is embraced, both are considered Canon, because they both happen and can be incorporated into the story. So, wether it was a kiss, holding hands, or sex, it gave the implication of romance, and the start of a relationship, and the sharing of mutual affections.

Yeah but if we're left to interpretations an such an such regarding sexual healing, then we may as well whip out that thread on Cloud and Aerith getting it on.

Used her for what? He said he wanted to start a LIFE with her, said it was DIFFERENT know. Whats different? Possibly the mutual affections they share and are aware of now?
Wanted to raise kids with her?
Took care of Barrets daughter like their own?
Took on Denzel has a way to cover their sins, grow together, and save a life?
Ran away from those he loves. Those he cherishes most, at the thought of losing them? Searching for a way to save them?

Query, where did he say he wanted to spend the rest of his life with her? If it's in CoT can you dig up a quote plox?

Also I'm curious as to why they're so willing to take in other children, yet they haven't had the desire to want one of their own. This thought just randomly occurred to me. Throwing it out there into the midst.

I think C & T have done enough for eachother, their 'children' and gotten plenty of hints from Aerith to go on and live their lives together, regardless of the past, and regardless of their sins and faults.

So if they're doing all that, where's the lovin?

It would be nice, but I think we've had enough physical intimacy between them. FF7 isnt a love story, your looking for FF8 in that department. The story isnt ALL about Cloud and Tifa and their romance, thats just a small part that furthers the real plot and development, which is life, moving on, living, family, and so on and so forth, but mainly life, and living.

I tried to give VIII a chance, but tbh I got bored. The battle system/junction system confused the fuck out of me, and when I went to go get dinner, I put it on pause, forgot about it and just... yeah.

There's no sex because CGI hasn't developed to the point where they can create realistic thrusting.

I know because I spoke to am Nomura. Prove I'm not.

I don't think 'AC/FFVII isn't a romance story' is reason enough for lacking romantic scenes. How many action films tack on a romantic subplot? Just because it's not all about love doesn't mean they can't have a few scenes in there. It doesn't have to get in the way of motorbike chases and sword fights.

But I don't think that's the topic anymore, because you all post too much.

Yeah, they do bad enough with the kissing scenes, I wouldn't like to see them attempt a sex scene until its flawless. Then again if you do it in just cheap ass/back shots and fingers against the steamed up window ala Mass Effect, it wouldn't be horrible but still cheesy.

 

[Ryushikaze]

There's no sex because CGI hasn't developed to the point where they can create realistic thrusting.

I know because I spoke to am Nomura. Prove I'm not.

Why you can't be Nomura because (removes mask) I am Nomura!

I don't think 'AC/FFVII isn't a romance story' is reason enough for lacking romantic scenes. How many action films tack on a romantic subplot? Just because it's not all about love doesn't mean they can't have a few scenes in there. It doesn't have to get in the way of motorbike chases and sword fights.

But I don't think that's the topic anymore, because you all post too much.

Y'know, on that subject, of FFVII not being a love story at core, merely having one as the trappings, I think it still has more intimacy (physical and otherwise) than FFVIII, IX, and XII, and X, though the last one contains the caveat of offscreen intimacy v onscreen.

 

[Sunstrider]

I know because I spoke to am Nomura. Prove I'm not.

You didn't appear much at all in the images that flashed through my mind when the drunk down the street asked me who's most like Nomura to me. In fact you only flickered in about 4th in the sequence of images, and that was your only appearance for like 1.2 seconds. This proves to me that you are not my Nomura.

 

[Hinata Hyuga]

On that note, trying to say one scene is more narratively important than another because one is rendered in FMV while the other isn't is rather absurd. There's an FMV of a train going around Midgar, so that means that train is more important than Tifa and Cloud in the Lifestream. Bullocks. That's a paper thin, and flimsy argument. You can do better than that.

^This. Seriously, come one.

Aerith gets impaled in a FMV-dubbed, crucial scene followed by a completely meaningless moment where Cloud holds her lifeless body and gives an emotional speech, then another significant moment where Aerith is dropped into a lake to rot.

The only things of note happening here are Aerith giving up the ghost and being buried. I thought bit where Cloud speaks of his pain and sadness was a crucial part of the Clerith argument?

You do realize that you have just blown off your foot, don't you? You should hurry to the hospital and get that taken care of.

I may come back to post here, but for now I would rather stay out of it as there are already enough people here. I just could not resist after hearing such a ridiculously ridiculous statement as what Lone made accompanied with such a manner.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yeah but if we're left to interpretations an such an such regarding sexual healing, then we may as well whip out that thread on Cloud and Aerith getting it on.

Yeah, but sexual healing fits in context, gondola loving, not so much.

Query, where did he say he wanted to spend the rest of his life with her? If it's in CoT can you dig up a quote plox?

IIRC, that's the 'from tomorrow on' etc. line, methinks.

Also I'm curious as to why they're so willing to take in other children, yet they haven't had the desire to want one of their own. This thought just randomly occurred to me. Throwing it out there into the midst.

Who says they weren't trying, just to put the safety on the children gun on when they got shot with Denzel?

So if they're doing all that, where's the lovin?

In the bedroom, the shower, and sometimes the kitchen when they think the kids aren't watching.

I tried to give VIII a chance, but tbh I got bored. The battle system/junction system confused the fuck out of me, and when I went to go get dinner, I put it on pause, forgot about it and just... yeah.

Well TURN IT OFF... The impact on the power bill alone...

Yeah, they do bad enough with the kissing scenes, I wouldn't like to see them attempt a sex scene until its flawless. Then again if you do it in just cheap ass/back shots and fingers against the steamed up window ala Mass Effect, it wouldn't be horrible but still cheesy.

Or they could just make a porno. Like Zack and Aerith did. You did know that was the original name of the film before the S-E higherups muddled in Nomura's perfect vision of Zack and Aerith made a Porno. Then they turned it into that 'Miri' thing.

Also, Rinali, Mako hasn't shot his foot off, unless it's a giant foam foot. He's mocking the thing too.

And Channy, no Double Posty.

Everyone else, please don't come in and post unless you're GOING TO ACTUALLY RESPOND TO PEOPLE'S RESPONSES TO YOUR POSTS. You don't have to be here all the time, but actually give folks the common courtesy of responding to their points instead of simply bringing up a new tangent.

 

[Strangelove]

FFVII had more intimacy, but my definition of 'intimacy' involves hot tubs and men.

I thought FMV were just for the exciting action scenes anyway. Like rocket launches and trains going through tunnels.

You didn't appear much at all in the images that flashed through my mind when the drunk down the street asked me who's most like Nomura to me. In fact you only flickered in about 4th in the sequence of images, and that was your only appearance for like 1.2 seconds. This proves to me that you are not my Nomura.

... D:

I cannot argue with such arithmetic. I hope I can be your platonic Nomura, at least.

 

[Lonewolf]

My apologies for stopping to post when I have the chance. I'm a busy man, you know. I can stop, if you'd like.

Also, there's a lot of posts and I have a hard time answering everyone. Defensive, much?

...because her death is emotional and important to the story? Tell me though, is the Lifestream just Not Important because it's not fully rendered? You can't really do the sequence in silence, like Aerith's death and subsequent burial.

All I'm saying is that the creators had to pick which scenes were important enough to render. I'm not saying that the lifestream isn't important, I'm saying it's not as important as Aerith's death sequence.

And for that matter, are we supposed to take the Creation of SeeD, the creation of Squall and Rinoa's promise, the revelation of Cecil and Golbez's past as non important simply because none of them were in FMV?

There, you have it. Squall and Rinoa were fully rendered when he came to her rescue from Adel, and at the end when he completed his promise - his being a SeeD isn't near as important as his coming to grips with his feelings. Thus, more important scenes are always rendered. Thank you for understanding the point.

I think you may be forgetting that mentally, Cloud is still a teenager, really. He was in a tube for the latter part of his growing years, so he didn't get to do most of the growing one finishes up in his late teens-early adult years. Not to mention, there's nothing to imply he was ever in a relationship prior to that, so he's quite clueless in the relationship area of his life.

Are we sure Cloud is still a teenager? He managed to communicate with Zack - he was conscious. Furthermore, we're in a society where boys leave home at 14. Cloud was sixteen when he was a fully trained grunt - I'd think it's safe to say that because of his harsh childhood, he grew up quickly.

 

[Hinata Hyuga]

Also, Rinali, Mako hasn't shot his foot off, unless it's a giant foam foot. He's mocking the thing too.

Oh, I am sorry. I meant to put something to say 'what he said' under that, and not to reiterate what he said about why what Lone claimed would not suffice.

I'll edit my post to make it clearer, lol.

 

[Makoeyes987]

You can't weigh a scene's importance based on how pretty it looks. That's inconsistent and makes no sense. The FMV scenes were chosen because of their action potential, not their significance to the plot. Again, you're telling me a nifty action scene of a train going through Midgar is more important than Cloud and Tifa in the Lifestream, hand in hand? That's bollocks. FFVII's FMV's are not the same as FFVIII's, nor were they rendered out of storyline significance. That argument makes no sense.

And Cloud may have grown up quickly, but he is definitely lacking in all of the social lessons and experiences most men his age come to age with. He spent most of his pubescent years in a test tube. Give me a break.

 

[Channy]

Yeah, but sexual healing fits in context, gondola loving, not so much.

But wry? It's like having sex in a bathroom at a restaurant. It could be done, nobodies watching.

Who says they weren't trying, just to put the safety on the children gun on when they got shot with Denzel?

Hrm... touche.

In the bedroom, the shower, and sometimes the kitchen when they think the kids aren't watching.

Like Gondola sax?

Well TURN IT OFF... The impact on the power bill alone...

It did long time ago

Or they could just make a porno. Like Zack and Aerith did. You did know that was the original name of the film before the S-E higherups muddled in Nomura's perfect vision of Zack and Aerith made a Porno. Then they turned it into that 'Miri' thing.

wat? Where is this uncut version?

And Channy, no Double Posty.

I know. I assumed that with the speed of this thread, somebody would have snuck in by the time I made my second.

FFVII had more intimacy, but my definition of 'intimacy' involves hot tubs and men.

Those were the best romantic scenes in the whole game imo.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Are we sure Cloud is still a teenager? He managed to communicate with Zack - he was conscious. Furthermore, we're in a society where boys leave home at 14. Cloud was sixteen when he was a fully trained grunt - I'd think it's safe to say that because of his harsh childhood, he grew up quickly.

Are YOU saying teenagers shouldn't be able to communicate? I'm saying he wasn't emotionally grown up for a relationship. Yes, he had a hard life, but it didn't prepare him to go on and be in a healthy relationship with a woman.

 

[Ryushikaze]

My apologies for stopping to post when I have the chance. I'm a busy man, you know. I can stop, if you'd like.

Also, there's a lot of posts and I have a hard time answering everyone. Defensive, much?

No. You ignoring posts is not folks being defensive.

All I'm saying is that the creators had to pick which scenes were important enough to render. I'm not saying that the lifestream isn't important, I'm saying it's not as important as Aerith's death sequence.

So apparently are a train, A rocketship, an airship, and stealing a truck.
You're saying stealing a truck is exactly as important as Aerith dying.

There, you have it. Squall and Rinoa were fully rendered when he came to her rescue from Adel, and at the end when he completed his promise - his being a SeeD isn't near as important as his coming to grips with his feelings. Thus, more important scenes are always rendered. Thank you for understanding the point.

Applying your logic to FFIX, The battle between Bahamut and Alexander is more important than Kuja's revenge, ascension, defeat, and death.
To X, Khimari and Rikku's entrances are more important than the entire story between Tidus and Jecht.
To IV, Edward's reaction to Anna's death, Rydia's attempt to escape Cecil are more important than the revelations about Baron, Edge's parents, Cecil's history, or even the entire ending sequence.
To quote Bender 'To quote an old Robot saying, "DOES NOT COMPUTE."'

Are we sure Cloud is still a teenager? He managed to communicate with Zack - he was conscious. Furthermore, we're in a society where boys leave home at 14. Cloud was sixteen when he was a fully trained grunt - I'd think it's safe to say that because of his harsh childhood, he grew up quickly.

He has the skills to live in the world, but does the boy have interpersonal skills? I can't imagine he got a lot of social interaction in the tubes.

But wry? It's like having sex in a bathroom at a restaurant. It could be done, nobodies watching.

It COULD. Cloud could also ask to try on Aerith's dress. Neither actually fits the context.

Hrm... touche.

Thankee.

Like Gondola sax?

Naw. Too much chance they'd knock it off the cable.

It did long time ago

When your power got knocked out? Because you paused it and never came back.

wat? Where is this uncut version?

Sadly, only Nomura, Myself, and the other Nomura have access to it.

I know. I assumed that with the speed of this thread, somebody would have snuck in by the time I made my second.

Best not to, in general.