Bigass reply because Blank responded a lot and she got very wordy for not a whole lot actually said.
I call it the C/A date scene because that is the date that is pictured on the FTOIL page. By picturing the C/A date, it was given preferential treatment.
How, when it's just called 'one of four?'
But my main point seems to have been lost.
The date scene with Aerith is optional. The date scene with Tifa is optional. The date scene with Yuffie is optional. The date scene with Barret is optional. (Although SE has stated that the Clerith date is the default date)
They've also said Cloud doesn't get what she (or Tifa) is talking about during that confession. They've also included Tifa's date on her personal timeline and in Cloud's profile in the U10. SE really just doesn't give a shit which date happened, be it Aerith's or Barret's.
But Cloud, Aerith and Tifa are the only characters that are apart of the love triangle. And the FTOIL states it is showing romantic affection between Final Fantasy protagonists. So it would appear as though the two dates the FTOIL page is referring to would have to be Cloud's date with Aerith, or Cloud's date with Tifa.
Yuffie isn't a protaganist now? Yuffie doesn't display romance by kissing Cloud?
Your special pleading really just isn't convincing.
I guess we'll have to write a letter to SE and ask them why they didn't differentiate between the four dates since only two of the dates fit the criteria of the FTOIL page. My theory for why SE did not differentiate between the four dates is because dates are romantic in nature, and the point of the page is to show displays of romantic affection (and more than one date is romantic), so there was no need to differentiate between the dates.
Yes, at least three of the four dates are romantic. And there's no reason to go into detail since 'You can go on a DATE' is the driving point of the text.
I have a followup question. You harp on p232. Have you read the linked page for the dates?
However, the Highwind scene with Tifa is variable. And it is variable in two totally opposite ways. One version is romantic, and the other is platonic. This makes it imperative to distinguish between the two versions by including the "without words" tidbit in the caption, clearly referring to Tifa's risque line in the HA version.
Yes, and? The U20 is not required for us to know which scene happened, even though the story summary again mentioned feelings for each other and the high highwind is listed as the notable/ important scene, not the low.
So after that longwinded explanation, my overall point is that multiple dates are romantic, so it is not necessary to distinguish between them. (And I guess we'll never know why SE didn't differentiate Barret and Yuffie's dates from Aerith and Tifa's dates, or does page 225 listed about the Clerith date do so?)
Ah, so you HAVEN'T read the page. Good to know.
But what I do know is that it is not crucial that SE differentiates between the dates. However, it is very crucial to differentiate between the two Highwind scenes because only one version of the Highwind scene fits the criteria of the FTOIL page.
Yes. And that's the version we already knew happened. Again, what the FTOIL page informs us of is that these were romantic feelings, and that they were indeed conveyed without words.
So when I see a big deal being made over the captions, and how Tifa is mentioned specifically but Aerith isn't, it seems kind of silly to me. It's glaringly apparent why SE referred to the HA HW scene, and why they did not refer to a specific date.
It's not 'a big deal' being made over captions. It's 'reading them at all.' The point of the date captions is to emphasize the variability. The point of the Highwind caption is to emphasize the mutual feelings.
And given that SE did not find it necessary to talk about a specific date scene suggests to me that the intent of the page is not to canonize pairings or variable/optional scenes. It is simply meant to highlight displays of romantic affection. Multiple dates are romantic (thus there was no need to specify between them), but only one Highwind scene is romantic (thus it was necessary to refer to the HA version by referencing Tifa's risque line that she delivers in the HA version only).
You're missing the point so hard right now it's amazing.
We know full well from the story summaries- including the U10 and the one in the very U20 and Tifa's CCU Profile that the version in which Cloud and Tifa confirm their feelings for each other is the one that happened. And we also know, as Hitobito keeps helpfully pointing out, that the word used for feelings used in these instances is used primarily romantically, as it is used for Locke and Celes on the FTOIL page.
One big distinction I see is that not until the FTOIL page has it been stated that feelings were expressed between Cloud and Tifa "without words". This is an important distinction because only in the HA version does it leave room for something to happen between Cloud and Tifa "without words".
Yes, and? It means we can add hanky panky to the things that happened that night IN ADDITION to the previously known confirmation of feelings.
The only possible instance of romantic affection "without words," and what really separates the LA and HA version, is when Tifa states her risque line. So when the caption on the FTOIL page says they expressed their feelings "without words," it must be referring directly to Tifa's risque line, which only occurs in the HA version.
You're again missing the point. You're trying to tell us 'It can only mean the High version!' when we already know the version in which they confirm their feelings for each other is the one that happend.
None of the character or story summaries state that feelings were expressed "without words". Therefore, what is stated on the FTOIL page does not match what is stated in the character and story summaries. It's awfully interesting that SE decided to include this extra detail only on the FTOIL page. Maybe the characters and story summaries didn't include this extra detail because they are not referring to either version?
So, the low version is romantic, then, because as has been pointed out, the U10 story summary, at the least, uses a form of 'feelings' reserved primarily for romance.
(Granted, a few pages back I did show that a non-verbal moment was shared between Cloud and Tifa in both versions. But for the sake of keeping this discussing moving forward, I will debate under the premise that the FTOIL page is directly talking about Tifa's risque line during the HA HW scene).
Because if you didn't, your entire argument would have been rendered ENTIRELY moot. But thanks for highlighting that you're changing stance mid argument to better serve your ends. It's refreshing when you're honst about your disingenuousness.
So...
why would we automatically apply what SE says on a page discussing romantic affection (where SE is required to differentiate between the two HW versions since only one version is romantic), to what is said when SE discusses the story in general terms?
Because when SE discusses the story in general terms they still uses loaded terms like 'feelings for each other' and use a word used for romantic feelings. And they say things like Cloud and Tifa belonging together, forming a family, having a future, Tifa being someone's beloved, etc.
To me, what SE says about the Highwind scene when they are speaking generally about the story is more canon, relevant, and valid than what they say about the Highwind scene on a page that can only refer to one version.
So, Cloud and Tifa STILL share their feelings for each other under the highwind, the feelings are still romantic, and they still live together in AC and DC, where they belong, and have a future. And Tifa is still someone's romantic beloved.
And I know I've said this before, but I honestly think Cloti's are misinterpreting and misrepresenting the purpose of the FTOIL page. The purpose of the page is not to canonize couples or events, but to simply show displays of romantic affection, regardless of optionality. The FTOIL page is required to refer to the HA version given the context of the page, but the character and story summaries are not required to refer to the HA version. This is why the caption on the FTOIL page refers to Tifa's risque line, and the character and story summaries don't.
It's not required for that to be the particular purpose of the page for the page to have that effect. Also, you totally misunderstand. The page doesn't canonize the High Highwind scene. It canonizes the topic of romance on that scene. Other sources canonize the high highwind.
The FTOIL page specifies the HA HW scene when it refers to Tifa's risque line.
Which it technically does not, but oh well.
Common sense also dictates that since the LA version is not romantic, the FTOIL page has to be referring to the HA HW scene. And that's my point -- the character and story summaries are not under the same constrictions as the FTOIL page. The character and story summaries do NOT have to adhere to "romantic displays of affection," which is why the story and character summaries do not refer to Tifa's risque line. The bottom line is: it is not clear which version the character and story summaries are referring to.
Bottom line: Yes it is. The story summaries and profiles and yadda yadda use romantically loaded terms and phrases.
Here is my interpretation of the LA version:
Tifa says that everyone is gone. Cloud agrees with her and expands further by saying they don't have anywhere or anyone to go home to. Tifa agrees with Cloud and says, "You're right." They are both communicating mutual feelings of loss, loneliness, and uncertainty.
Which, AGAIN, fails to account for feelings 'for each other.' Further, the 'low' scene is described as Apathetic- lacking feeling. It cannot be the scene in which Cloud and Tifa confirm their feelings for each other.
Later, Tifa explains, "As long as we’re together. With you by my side, I’ll never give up no matter how bad it gets.”
Cloud agrees with Tifa by saying this later in the conversation as well, "We still have to do what we can. And believe in ourselves...I’ll find the answer some day, as long as I keep trying.”
Tifa says she will never give up, and Cloud also says he will find the answers he seeks if he continues to keep trying. They are both expressing mutual feelings of determination and perseverance.
You still lack 'For each other,' which, again, means your interpretation fails.
Granted, they may have difference reasons for why they feel determined to continue and preserver, but they both express mutual feelings of determination and perseverance regardless of the reasons why.
Cuz they LURVE each other.
Okay, I'm just being snarky now. There's not much substance to your reply for all these words.
Then they share an intimate moment together (in both versions) where Cloud and Tifa lean on each other while the sun is rising. Non-verbal feelings are being expressed during this scene.
Which makes your entire argument above that it MUST refer to the High version because it uses the phrase 'without words' ENTIRELY meaningless, since you argue here that they affirm feelings nonverbally in both cases.
You're trying to have it both ways, kiddo. Transparently so.
So it appears to me that the conversation started off with both Cloud and Tifa expressing mutual feelings of loss, loneliness, and uncertainty. But as the conversation progressed, they both expressed feelings of determination and perseverance, no matter how difficult the circumstances may be.
"...I’ll never give up no matter how bad it gets.” ~Tifa
"...I’ll find the answer some day, as long as I keep trying.” ~Cloud
Then right before they go back aboard the Highwind, Tifa seems to be unsure about something. So Cloud says, "It's all right, Tifa. You said so yourself yesterday. At least we don't have to go on alone." Tifa replies, "Yes… That's right!"
So it appears that although they both expressed mutual feelings of loss, uncertainty and loneliness at the beginning of their conversation, they both realized as the conversation went on that they must never give up and continue to keep trying no matter how hard things may seem.
The overall message I got from this scene is that Cloud and Tifa expressed feelings of determination and perseverance by the end of their time under the Highwind. They had each other to rely on and use as a support system during these extremely difficult and uncertain times. They had each other -- either romantically or platonically.
The feelings of determination, never giving up, and perseverance, even under the most difficult circumstances, seems very fitting considering the Highwind sequence takes place right before the final battle.
You took, like, 30 lines of text to say what could have been said in 5, and which is wrong besides.
Anyway...
The FTOIL page is required to refer to the HA HW scene given the context of the page. The FTOIL page references the HA version by referencing Tifa's risque line. The story and character summaries do no reference this line because they are not under the same restrictions as the FTOIL page. SE is being purposely vague about what type of feelings are expressed during the story and character summaries because Tifa and Cloud are an optional couple that depends on player controlled affection points (SE has pointed this out several times).
So if you believe, as I do, that mutual non-romantic feelings can be expressed in the LA version, the character and story summaries could be referring to either version.
It also requires ignoring that the mutual feelings are also feelings for each other and are of a romantic bent, ALSO in said summaries.
This all comes down to interpretation. I believe Cloud's heart lies with Aerith. His actions during FFVII suggest this, and his actions throughout AC suggest this to me as well. The LTD is hard because (as I've stated before) SE has provided evidence for both sides. This is a love triangle. Obviously evidence will be abundant on both sides. The problem is that SE is vague about who Cloud loves romantically, and they often provide contradictory and purposely ambiguous pieces of information. So why can't we just accept that who Cloud loves is based on our own interpretation of the compilation and leave it at that?
Because it isn't.
Simple as that.
Now we have some other issues to discuss.
Is Barret apart of the family?
1. Marlene invites Cloud into the family. It isn't Cloud's family, per-say.
2. Barret is the first person to call them a family in Case of Tifa.
3. They are only a family of 4 while Barret is away.
4. Tifa agrees that friends can form a family.
5. "Upon finding out that Edge was under attack during the midst of his travels, he rushed over towards the crisis faced by his family and companions." ~Character Profile 10th Anniversary Ultimania
Furthermore, doesn't Cloud say that Barret is Marlene's father even though they are not biologically related?
Barret is not part of Cloud's family. Barret is not part of the Family unit at 7th heaven. Period. End of.
He is still Marlene's dad. He is not part of the Nuclear unit at the 7th heaven. He is not the 'dad' in that household.
Let's say my cousin leaves her baby with her mother for a period of time as she has to leave the country or work. My cousin is still the baby's mom, but she would not be a part of the 'family' that lived at the grandmother's house, and the grandmother would be acting in the maternal role. It would not replace my cousin, but my cousin would not be automatically included in the family that lives there, and that's despite her being blood related to both her own mom and her baby (which sounds silly to point out, but it's being contrasted to the adopted Marlene).
Regardless...SE has provided contradictory information regarding Barret being apart of the family. I happen to believe Barret is apart of the family because he is Marlene's father. And yes, they are family of 4 while Barret is away. But when Barret hears of his family being attacked, he rushes back to protect them. When he returned, it became a family of 5.
SE has never indicated Barret is part of Cloud's family or the 7th heaven family. He might be able to join it should he come back, but being Marlene's dad does not automatically include him in the family any more than it might include Cloud or Tifa's parents if THEY were still alive.
My parents and my siblings are my family, but sure as fuck when I settle down with a girlfriend/wife they will NOT be part of the family at my house.
Do Cloud and Tifa sleep in the same room?
You pointed out that Cloud has no furniture other than a bed. Well, he travels a lot and just because he doesn't have other furniture doesn't necessarily mean it isn't the room where he sleeps. All you need is a bed to sleep. Furthermore, Tifa tells Cloud to drink in his "room".
No, she tells Cloud, 'Drink in room', period. No 'your.' 'Your' was an addition to the english text. It is error.
Also, do I need to go over how someone's office is 'their room' also? Because you're repeating talking points and not replying to rebuttals. It's getting old.
We can go round and round on this. But guess what? Cloud and Tifa are NEVER shown sleeping together. Therefore, it is left up to our own interpretation. I believe they don't sleep together because I don't believe they are a romantic couple. Cloud having a bed in his room is proof enough. Maybe he keeps his clothes in a closet door? Maybe he doesn't need other furniture because he's on the road so much? We will never know for sure. But all I know is that he has a bed, cot, whatever, and Tifa tells him to drink in his "room".
We also know that she can wait for him to fall asleep, be in his room, and ask him questions and HE DOESN'T CARE. She can wait their all night and he doesn't care. If, for some odd reason, they have 'officially' seperate rooms, they're in each other's rooms/ beds the whole of the night often enough as to make such a thing a complete nonissue.
Again, you might interpret this differently. And that's fine. But if you don't believe Cloud and Tifa are a couple, it would make sense that Cloud is told to drink in his "room," and it would make sense that Cloud has a place to sleep in his room (I don't care if it is a cot or a bed -it's a place to sleep- ...and it doesn't matter if he doesn't have other furniture in his room. That's completely irrelevant and doesn't prove anything)
It does. Because it makes it more likely that the room is actually just a barly converted storage room for the bar and Cloud's bike supplies, and not a room for someone to regularly sleep in.
Next you said:
Well, here are some quotes for ya:
1. “Although in the beginning Aerith felt close to Cloud is because he behaves like Zack, her interest in Cloud himself grows and is attracted to him.” ~page 31, FFVII Ultimania Omega
2. “When Aerith thinks of Cloud and Zack’s similarities, she sees that the present Cloud is not the real Cloud. Her meaningful lines like, “I’m searching for you” and “I want to meet you” all mean that she has discovered the existence of the real Cloud, although he’s not aware of it himself.” ~page 31, FFVII Ultimania Omega
3. “At first when I met Cloud, I believed he was similar to Zack. Little actions, the way he spoke… his kindness. But Cloud is Cloud. I, now undoubtedly, love Cloud much more than Zack. But Cloud is clueless.” ~Aerith’s monologue in Gongaga, FFVII Dismantled
4. “First off, it bothered me how you looked exactly alike. Two completely different people, but look exactly the same. The way you walk, gesture… I think I must have seen him again, in you… But you’re different. Things are different…” ~Aerith, Final Fantasy VII
5. “After developing his personality by using Zack’s memory as a base, Cloud still maintained the part of coolness even though Zack had cheerful characteristics. The part of Cloud’s coolness that keeps him away from the surroundings and the part of his asserting “no interests” all have nothing to do with the influence of Jenova cells. They belong to the real Cloud’s personality.” ~page 180, FFVII Ultimania Omega
6. “Aerith detected that the present Cloud is not the real him during their encounters. She knows it because of her mysterious, inherent ability.” ~FFVII Ultimania Omega
In conclusion: Aerith understood that Zack and Cloud were different. She wanted to get to know the ‘real’ Cloud, and loved Cloud for who he was. Furthermore, Cloud still maintained part of his real personality while he adopted Zack’s memories.
And yet, all of this is STILL colored by Aerith searching for Zack in Cloud, even as she realizes they are different and becomes attracted to and interested in getting to meet the Real Cloud.
Of course, this IS all gloriously irrelevant. Aerith's interest in Cloud- like Tifa's- is a known quantity. I just wanted to see what kerfluffle that quote might cause.
Just because Aerith had a first love doesn’t mean she can’t have a second love. SE makes it very clear that Aerith loved Cloud for who he was, NOT for who he reminded her of.
They've made it very clear that the latter applies even as the former does.
Quotes 1 and 3 need to be listed again:
-SNIP! No they don't, you're wordy enough-
Honestly, we could go round and round on so many issues. Another issue we could debate until the end of earth is whether a childhood crush means something. I happen to believe Tifa only loved the idea of dating someone in SOLDIER — she had no real interest in Cloud as a person. Tifa only began to care about Cloud after he became her magical knight in shining armor. Before that, she hardly gave him the time of day. In fact, according to SE, Tifa “strong-armed” Cloud into making that childhood promise. But I'm sure your interpretation is different.
She did strong arm him, but she also thought Cloud was cute, and she BELIEVED in Cloud. It's also not the idea of the SOLDIER or the Shining Knight- when presented with Sephiroth and Zack, she immediately began asking about Cloud. Tifa might not have become truly interested in Cloud until she learned of his ambition, but she DAMN WELL became interested in CLOUD. The Cloud she supports even when he is at his LOWEST. She's not interested in him for glory, or because he's super special awesome SOLDIER White Knight, but because he's CLOUD.
We could also argue about the Lifestream sequence. Or how Tifa feels a maternal bond towards Cloud. Or how Denzel was brought to Cloud by Aerith. Or how Aerith's Church is Cloud's Promised Land. Or how Tifa doesn't know if Cloud loves her. Or how Tifa says their family isn't a "real" family. Or how the creators don't know if a relationships exists between Cloud and Tifa.
And you'd be bringing up a boatload of PRATTs each time.
There are so many issues that have contradictory pieces of information that are based on our own interpretation. But I'm not really interested in debating all these little details. All I'm interested in is showing that mutual feelings of romance between Cloud and Tifa have not been confirmed by SE.
They are only contraditions because you WANT contradictions.
Oh, and Mutual feelings of romance FOR EACH OTHER between Cloud and Tifa HAVE been confirmed by SE. On several occasions. The U20 was just a happy declaration of the same in giant neon letters, as it were.
This follows along with a point I've consistently brought up -- SE has given contradictory pieces of information over and over again. SE tends to say one then, and then say a completely different thing at a later date.
Anyway...do you have the context for the Reunion Files quote? Maybe it was speaking generically that Tifa was everyone's 'sweetheart'? Tifa was, afterall, the heart and soul of the 7th Heaven bar for AVALANCHE. I wouldn't be surprised if everyone in AVALANCHE thought of Tifa as a 'sweetheart'.
Thank you, Blank, for officially confirming you have no clue what you're talking about.
The word in Japanese is Koibito. As in beloved. As in romance. As in Cloud, the man she formed a family and shares a future with.
I keep bringing up these phrases, and you keep ignoring them. Wonder why.
But I don't really even care to argue that point. Let's just say SE referred to Cloud as Aerith's koibito, and Tifa as Cloud's koibito (...although I do think it is stronger evidence that Cloud was directly said to be Aerith's koibito, versus Tifa being ambiguously stated as a koibito to no one in specific, which means SE was probably saying she was everyone's 'sweetheart,' especially considering their intentional lack of specificity...)
Yeah, no. Not unless she's everyone's sorta mom and everyone's ally in battle. Actually, double no, because Koibto does not work like that.
Regardless, here is a perfect example of SE providing evidence that supports both pairings, which follows along with my belief that the LTD is up to our own interpretation.
No, this is a perfect example of AERITH thinking Cloud is her beloved, even though he's fucking clueless to her affections, and the CREATOR stating that Tifa IS someone's beloved, and that this comprises part of her rolls in the world.
SE is notorious for providing evidence that supports both sides because this is a love triangle. Who Cloud loves is up to our own interpretation of the compilation, and all SE has done is consistently provide evidence that supports both pairings.
They killed one of the points. Cloud was oblivious to her affections the entire damn time he was alive.
The only time it was ever referred to officially as a 'love triangle' was in Aerith's profile, where she was 'interested in deepening' it.
1. Doesn't new information trump old information? In (newer) material SE simply states that Cloud and Tifa expressed mutual feelings. That's extremely vague and open-ended. And I already told everyone point-by-point what mutual feelings I believe were expressed during the LA Highwind scene. But just to reiterate, I believe Tifa and Cloud expressed feelings of determination and perseverance, no matter how difficult the current circumstances may be.
(For a more thorough explanation of my interpretation, please go to my previous post. I include more quotes and a longer explanation)
2. In your quote it does not say what kind of feelings were expressed.
3. Their mutual feelings for each other could be that they can get through anything as long as they have each other.
Newer overrides older only in case of conflict. In this case, there is no conflict. 'I can get through this if I have you' is not 'feelings for each other' in any common use of the term.
Tifa was able to help Cloud rediscover his memories, and Tifa feels safe knowing that she has Cloud by her side (she states this in both the HA and LA version). Their mutual feelings for each other could be that they can get through anything as long as they are both their to support one another. This is reiterated by Cloud before they go back aboard the Highwind when he says, "It's all right, Tifa. You said so yourself yesterday. At least we don't have to go on alone."
This is still not 'for each other'
'I have feelings for you' is an EXTREMELY loaded phrase. It is entirely different from 'I have feelings about you.'
If I said 'I have strong feelings about my neighbor's sheep,' I'd be expressing distate for them and no one would lock me way.
If I said 'I have strong feelings for my neighbor's sheep,' I'd be a right sick minded little monkey and should be locked away.
Cloud is obviously saying that Tifa doesn't need to worry because they can face any obstacle as long as they are not alone and have each other.
Aww, how romantic.
Yep, snarking again. But seriously, it is a romantic sentiment. Which is fitting. Cuz they love each other. Like the become aware of in the lifestream and confirm under the highwind. It's related to their future together, you see.
These are feelings of mutual companionship. And this companionship can either be romantic or platonic depending on which version of the Highwind scene you achieve.
Or period, given that 'for each other' and the use of the romantic version of 'feelings' colors the summaries with romance anyways.
4. It appears, yet again, that SE has been inconsistent with how they describe the Highwind scene. Who decides which descriptions are right, and which descriptions are wrong...?
They're all right, as they don't contradict each other. Just what you wanted to hear.
In addition, I don't know what you guys think about what was said in the Dirge of Cerberus material. Here's some quotes I've been looking at:
Why does it simply say Tifa "keeps in close contact" with Cloud and Barret? Keeping in "close contact" does not mean she started a family with Cloud. In addition, is SE saying her relationship with Cloud and Barret is similar? Why wasn't she said to have started a family with Cloud? Furthermore, at the end it says Tifa continues to have the traits that always made her such a "great friend". This description of Tifa being a "great friend" matches the character description I provide down below that only describes Tifa as Cloud's "friend".
It's wrong. Cloud lives with Tifa in Dirge. The CCU states this explicitly. Multiple times, IIRC.
Since Dirge of Cerberus occurred after Advent Children, none of this suggests to me that Cloud and Tifa formed a 'family' together. Or maybe they did form a family of friends and it failed (wouldn't be surprised given how their relationship was portrayed in AC...) But it appears to me that Cloud went on with his life, and Tifa went on with her life separately. Cloud continued his delivery service, and Tifa opened up an orphanage. Maybe Denzel lives with Tifa in her orphanage? Seems pretty logical to me.
That is entirely wrong. They live together. Cloud lives with her. Where he belongs. Where he is meant to live. With his family, with the people who make him happy, with the woman he has a future together.
Seriously, the best you've got is the Bradygames BS and your own magical druthers to combat a host of statements saying Cloud and Tifa live together, belong together, and have a future together, including during and after DoC
It also says this for the character descriptions:
Hmmm...
Tifa is Cloud's childhood friend vs. Aerith will forever be engraved in Cloud's heart.
And yes, I know Tifa's promise will forever be engraved in Cloud's heart too. But my response to that is simple:
1. A childhood crush/promise will always have a special place in anyone's heart, especially if the crush lasted until almost adulthood. But that has no relevance on Cloud's adult feelings. Also, does the quote explicitly say "Tifa" will be engraved in Cloud's heart, or just the promise? Because the Clerith quote says that Aerith, herself, will be engraved in Cloud's heart.
Yeah, terrible murders have a way of never leaving you. The phrase is a terrible translation of a japanese idiom meaning unforgettable.
2. This could be viewed as another example of SE providing evidence that supports both pairings, even though the evidence given for both sides contradicts the other. Therefore, I believe SE is providing evidence that supports both pairings because Cloud does, in fact, love both women. But who he loves romantically is up to us.
~I made some edits to my post. Feel free to re-read my post for clarification~
Well, you believe, but you're wrong. The very core of Cloud's being, his 'heart' was revealed to us during the lifestream sequence. All Tifa. No Aerith.
It means he won't forget the promise or Aerith. Nothing more.
The promise, however, is VERY important to Cloud, as the U10 points out.
My overall point is this:
The FTOIL page has to refer to the HA HW scene because it is talking about 'displays of romantic affection'. To show this display of romantic affection between Cloud and Tifa, the FTOIL page refers to Tifa's risque line by saying Cloud and Tifa confirm their feelings to match "without words" (the character and story summaries do not refer to Tifa's risque line).
So my point is that the character and story summaries are not under the same constrictions as the FTOIL page. The character and story summaries do NOT have to adhere to the criteria of "romantic displays of affection," which is why the story and character summaries do not say the feelings between Cloud and Tifa have to be expressed "without words".
No, they just use the word for romantic feelings and the phrase 'feelings for each other'
So if you believe the LA version could be talking about feelings of perseverance and never giving up because of a mutual companionship (that can either be platonic or romantic), then the character and story summaries could be referring to either version of the Highwind scene. Furthermore, the FTOIL page does not trump character or story summaries, nor does it have any relevance towards canonizing variable scenes or Final Fantasy VII's storyline.[/quote]
Your conclusion is incorrect because the story summaries do not use generic language. They include cues to indicate romantic feelings, not simply 'feelings of any sort'
If you want to read the quotes I've used to support the idea that the Highwind scene is about determination and perseverance through a mutual companionship (that can either be romantic or platonic), please refer to my previous two posts. I believe I have provided more than enough sufficient quotes.
You have not, because you've really just sort of invented the idea whole cloth and tried to assert that bits of the text are about this without any external support and in defiance of the actual language used to describe the scene.
The bottom line is: feelings are expressed in the LA version. You can decide for yourself what those feelings are, but feelings are still expressed nonetheless. Thus, the character and story summaries could be referring to either version. And given how the compilation unfolds, it is clear that either version is possible depending on your interpretation.
The low version is apathetic and ends short. Cloud and Tifa canonically communicate feelings for each other, romantic feelings, that night. You see all the various quotes about the night as being in competition. They are not. They are in synthesis.
SE never specifically states in the character descriptions or story summaries what type of feelings were expressed, nor which version occurred for a reason. And that reason is this: Cloud and Tifa are an optional romantic couple that depends on a variable scene that is determined by player controlled affection points. This variation has been pointed out numerous times by SE.
They do specify. Romantic ones. For each other. QED.
Furthermore, these feelings of determination and perseverance through a mutual companionship seems like a very reasonable interpretation considering the Highwind scene takes place right before the final battle.
And Romance it entirely reasonable and makes more sense given that Cloud says he's going to have Tifa by his side from then on just after the final battle, they form a family together, they have a future together, belong together, see each other are the parent of the children they take care of, and She's someone's beloved.
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Here is how I ended my discussion on that point:
Since koibito has been used to support both pairings, the point is moot.
One usage was of a CHARACTER talking about her own love of another character.
The other was of a CREATOR declaring that one character had the role of someone's beloved. The two are not in ANY way comparable.
Also, I've had to go back and edit this a couple times now because your formatting is rather terrible. You have double color tags. Seriously?
and the promise with Tifa engraved in his chest/heart (胸
