The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

[Splintered]

I’d also like to mention that there is a quote like this for Zerith as well, Nomura called their love “juvenile” “platonic” and a “puppy love”. One should also remember that Zerith has officially been debunked by Square enix’s latest novel titled “Case of Lifestream: white—the book that defines Cloud as Aerith’s koibito.

You know, I have no problem with people using CoL:W to prove that Aerith was truly in love with Cloud and he's very much the center of her attention.

But I do have an issue that people are making out Aerith/Zack to be simply friendship or that it meant very little because anyone who played the games can very much see the impact they had on each other.

 

[Danseru-kun]

Surely Quex, I would reblog it for my 127 followers to see :3

/proud of that number even if it's little

Anyway, can you include Risa's translations? They should also be put as reference. My gosh the LTD really makes me laugh now more than get annoyed.

@Splintered

LOL Zerith is never debunked, the fact that Aerith calls him her first love makes it canon no matter the intensity is.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

EDIT: Yeah, I'm tired and got myself confused about what exactly Cali was doing.

 

[Dashell]

EDIT
DAMMIT TRES... wait...
wait wait


wait.. isn't fleeting an adjective? I don't think she's arguing for it to be an adverb...

 

[Danseru-kun]

^ haha good thing

I almost reblogged it

Take your time

 

[Dashell]

You know what? I'm just gonna post it and if that needs to be brought up later it can. so yeah.. NOW go ahead and reblog XD

http://dashaque.tumblr.com/post/39910989544/warning-huge-nerdy-post-about-the-truth-about-clouds

 

[Danseru-kun]

^ Oh and Quex, just a tip

Don't say anything about "this great guy from THE LIFESTREAM FORUMS"

As much as I understand you want to credit people posting the word "from TLS" in the Clerith tag automatically makes you a lying Cloti. Because you know, anything from this forums is a lie and we just made each other up for our Cloti delusions.

 

[Dashell]

Okay I'll edit that to say "friend of mine"
Can you edit that part in your post to match mine?

anyway, thanks for the reblog.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

wait.. isn't fleeting an adjective? I don't think she's arguing for it to be an adverb...

Yes, it is. Sorry, I'm tired and I have confused myself.

Continue as you were.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Congratulations Cali, you have managed the difficult Fractal Wrongness.

Be fair, it's supposed to be hard to be THAT wrong, but like all really difficult things there will always be someone who can make it look easy

 

[Dashell]

ahaha I just noticed something. When I translated what the dictionary said (I hope I did it all right )... I noticed that the third translation would be best fitting for "fleeting"... the thing is I didn't look at or translate any of the examples (I was trying to keep it brief) but one of the suggestions it gives is い恋心.

That's pretty funny actually... every once in a while I know what I'm talking about

 

[Danseru-kun]

See the response in the Cloti tag

"I noticed the ku 3 days earlier therefore my translation is correct."

: O

earlier post= proof one noticed it earlier = proof one's correct

*mind blown*

 

[Dashell]

Well Tres gave his first so uh... I guess he was the most right

and uh... yeah I noticed ku which is why I was asking if it could be read as an adverb... I was writing my essay at the time and I just wanted to cover all bases.

As for posting it in the Clerith tag... I thought I was supposed to D:
But that's fine, if I'm not supposed to I shall simply remove it. My bad.

 

[Danseru-kun]

And posting the transcribed text = proof of knowing the ku element and explaining it

?

Where's the explanation behind their translation?

So if I post any transcribed text here first it means it proves I know the meaning?

 

[Dashell]

And posting the transcribed text = proof of knowing the ku element and explaining it

Sure

Where's the explanation behind their translation?

"We ignored context and used what would disprove Cloti"

So if I post any transcribed text here first it means it proves I know the meaning?

idk maybe?
I do feel bad about posting that in the Clerith tag though, I hope I didn't piss anyone else off... you know anyone I might care about


EDIT
okay apparently they're saying I didn't notice awai until now despite pointing it out here:
http://s8.zetaboards.com/Cloud_x_Aerith/topic/8394524/3/

and here:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7360&page=266

hey it's even before she posted hers.. so .. this means I'm right, right?


EDIT II
Okay apparently the kerfluffle was originally that I didn't notice the word "awai"... when I pointed out that I did (by using the posts posted above) the new argument was that I didn't notice the "is also"... I pointed out that I used the comma figuring that was good enough but no it's not... I guess. And I think Kermit was involved somehow...

or something...
I don't even know anymore

 

[Splintered]

Cloud's crush for Tifa is "fleeting" and "immature"
“The True Wish Revealed: When Cloud was very young, he had no friends from others around his age, so he tried to believe himself special, he was an alienated child. Such as, when regarding him Tifa was important—-the* FLEETING AND ALSO IMMATURE LOVE was divulged in the spirit world.” —FF7 25th AU”
—
The feelings Cloud used to have for Tifa has officially been described as “fleeting” and “immature“—
How can Cloud love Tifa still if his crush (which is the very foundation of his supposed love) is said to be fleeting and immature? For his love to be described as fleeting that means it’s dimming or dying out, which means his crush did not continue— which means Cloud has no romantic feelings for her by the time the lifestream scene takes place.
I’d also like to mention that there is a quote like this for Zerith as well, Nomura called their love “juvenile” “platonic” and a “puppy love”. One should also remember that Zerith has officially been debunked by Square enix’s latest novel titled “Case of Lifestream: white—the book that defines Cloud as Aerith’s koibito.
I think this clearly explains everything about the LTD…
[Translations provided by earswithfoots; official Japanese text provided by dreamstar of the cxa forums.]

This has been spammed in the Tifa tag now.

Well not spammed since it only happened twice but it's still pretty annoying. I'm also going to assume that this is going to spark another huge fan war.

Also saw some of Quex's convos where the person still insists that Tres or whoever was butchering the Japanese language be purposefully leaving out words out despite the huge ass posts that essentially broke down why they used it, and D-kun's friends translation.

I can actually see this getting into one of the uglier arguments.

 

[Master Bates]

Instead of labelling and insulting trustworthy translators and disrespecting their hardwork over personal bias, how about they try to explain the reasoning behind their colorful translation?

Can we get them to explain? Or are they also not willing?

 

[Strangelove]

Quick note about あっさり because I just can't the rest right now, but another meaning of it is simple and plain, not affected or complex. With other verbs it would probably take the meaning of easily, but with とする I think the meaning unaffected meaning is more likely?

But whatever lets have another stupid and overdrawn argument because it has been a while

 

[Danseru-kun]

So basically it's now three translators and one Japanese versus one translator

But you know, since the ones in the left are all biased Clotis and the Japanese is just made up the right side wins LOL

 

[Master Bates]

But you know, since the ones in the left are all biased Clotis and the Japanese is just made up the right side wins LOL

See, this is what's wrong in all this debacle. It's not about accuracy, it's about winning.

 

[Danseru-kun]

See, this is what's wrong in all this debacle. It's not about accuracy, it's about winning.

I think it's insisting that there's always going to be different Cloti and Clerith translations and that one can't claim objectivity for the sole basis that they support a ship to be canon.

In short, there's actually no neutral, accurate translation because words change meanings depending on your ship.

And that proving Cloud's love for Tifa is fleeting will help Clerith

 

[Master Bates]

In other words, sacrificing accuracy for ship flotation devices.

Yeah, I get it. No matter how you try to sugarcoat it, to them, it's still a race to get to the next island.

 

[Strangelove]

ACKNOWLEDGE THE KU is my new favourite thing

google gives a lot of hits for 淡く幼い followed by words like 恋心 or 恋 or 愛 or 想い. i admit i looked it up to see if this was now like the other quotes in the past which were shopped around different forums until the 'correct' answer was found.

i am going to just straight up say that i don't accept 'fleeting' as a meaning here. none of the japanese definitions seem to point to a meaning of not lasting. what i see a quote saying that in the lifestream the faint, childish love cloud had for tifa when they were kids is revealed. it's the beginnings of love that is just starting to grow. nothing about how it is fleeting or disappearing, just that it isn't quite fully fledged at that point (childhood).

---

i am listening to a song on youtube and people have translated the title in the comments as 'already a servant of the people' and 'a servant of another person'. they are both incorrect (もう一人のボクに would be 'to another me, to my other self, etc.'), but if you're just looking at the comments you wouldn't necessarily know that. 僕 can mean a male servant, but that isn't its use here.

my point being, i guess that people don't always know what they're talking about even if they seem to to the untrained eye.


there is no separate 淡く and 淡い, 淡く is simply a form of 淡い. they are the same word. く isn't being 'added to the 淡 kanji', the い of 淡い has been conjugated. a lot of this talk just sounds like big words being used to give the impression of authority when there's not much backing up these statements. to be honest, i am confused as to what half of them are trying to even say.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Reposting this from a couple of days ago because relevant and likely to be forgotten in the stupid:

What this boils down to, what no amount of finagling will get around -- in addition to "koui"/"favors" being a euphemism for love, and having been used at length to describe other FF couples who are in love -- is this:

The book plainly states that Cloud and Tifa have had romantic feelings toward one another for many years, and that they express these feelings to one another. None of this is predicated on certain conditions being met by the player. No ambiguity is present by discussing an alternate scene with contradictory components. It just is.

Until they can rewrite reality, they're stuck in the same one as the rest of us.

Seriously, this "awaku" thing is fucking irrelevant. It doesn't matter what can mean "fleeting" here, because you've been told it doesn't.

 

[Strangelove]

what do you know, tres

you didn't even acknowledge the ku