The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

Still contradicts the later quote where he says he does in fact know the nature of their relationship.

 

[Strangelove]

the idea that the only way people can know what something in another language says is when there is a commercial translation available is kind of really insulting ngl

Sora and Riku

this is debatable

and you left out angeal/zack, the most romantic handreaching scene of all time. glorious white light, jpop ballad playing, angels and stuff leading zack to paradise

gay paradise am i right

 

[BlankBeat]

Still contradicts the later quote where he says he does in fact know the nature of their relationship.

Nomura's first quote is addressing the 2 years after FFVII. During the two years after FFVII, the status of their relationship is unclear because in the beginning of CoT things seemed to be going well between them, but towards the end of CoT, things seemed to be going downhill. Therefore, the 2 years after FFVII the status of their relationship is unknown. The HAHW scene does not necessarily lead to a *romantic* relationship because nothing unequivocally moves them from friends to lovers during CoT.

Nomura's second quote is addressing AC, when the "truth" of their relationship finally becomes clear. Nomura does not tell us what this "truth" is, therefore it is left up to interpretation. The truth that I see is that Cloud and Tifa are incompatible together and will never work out.
-This is supported by Nojima's premise that thing's "aren't going well" between them.
-This is supported by Nojima not knowing if even Denzel and Marlene will be enough to help them sort through their problems.
-This is supported by Tifa not knowing if Cloud loves her.
-This is supported by the "maternal bond" Tifa feels toward Cloud that drives him away and causes him to stop speaking to her.
-This is supported by Tifa's jealously she feels toward Cloud visiting Aerith's Church.

Nomura's two quotes are addressing two different time periods. The "truth" of their relationship wasn't clear until AC, when we finally see the complete breakdown of their relationship.

*still working on my all encompassing response*

 

[Ryushikaze]

Nomura's first quote is addressing the 2 years after FFVII. During the two years after FFVII, the status of their relationship is unclear because in the beginning of CoT things seemed to be going well between them, but towards the end of CoT, things seemed to be going downhill. Therefore, the 2 years after FFVII the status of their relationship is unknown. The HAHW scene does not necessarily lead to a *romantic* relationship because nothing unequivocally moves them from friends to lovers during CoT.

Nomura's second quote is addressing AC, when the "truth" of their relationship finally becomes clear. Nomura does not tell us what this "truth" is, therefore it is left up to interpretation. The truth that I see is that Cloud and Tifa are incompatible together and will never work out.

Setting aside, that you're wrong about that truth, you are missing the important thing here.


IT FUCKING MEANS NOMURA KNOWS.

 

[BlankBeat]

Setting aside, that you're wrong about that truth, you are missing the important thing here.


IT FUCKING MEANS NOMURA KNOWS.

You are assuming that Cloud and Tifa's relationship is the same during CoT as it is during AC.

His two quotes are addressing two different time periods. During CoT, their relationship was unclear. But by the time AC rolls around, their relationship becomes VERY clear.

 

[Dashell]

Wait so the argument is "I don't know Japanese so I'm going with the translation I like better"? That's not how it works.

Tres did a really good job explaining it to you. Read what he said, it's very easy to understand what he's saying if you just read it.

It really REALLY bothers me when someone shows their work for a translation , yet they still aren't trusted and the translation that was wrong still continues to get used simply because it suits the other person's opinion better. Translations CAN be wrong. People MAKE mistakes. It happens. Tres showed his work and I think you should trust him.


I mean What exactly needs to be done to prove one translation is correct when another is wrong?

If I got a completely unbiased third party translation, would you believe it then? Or would that person be wrong also?

 

[null]

This guy's entire gameplan is "no one knows, therefore it somehow favors my argument".

 

[Ryushikaze]

You are assuming that Cloud and Tifa's relationship is the same during CoT as it is during AC.

His two quotes are addressing two different time periods. During CoT, their relationship was unclear. But by the time AC rolls around, their relationship becomes VERY clear.

Yes, He CLEARLY wants to return to be with Tifa and the kids, where he is HAPPY. Where he BELONGS. Both of which are things we have been explicitly told.

Seriously, your only argument is to feign ignorance and assert without evidence at this point.

 

[Dashell]

For that matter, if there's no "official" translation, what makes you think you can just chose one at random?...

If you only trust official translations, only USE official translations... don't just pick and choose because one proves your point...


I Just


adhfkjshfaksadhfdas




sorry I hate this fucking LTD...

His two quotes are addressing two different time periods. During CoT, their relationship was unclear. But by the time AC rolls around, their relationship becomes VERY clear.

I agree... so we're done here, right?... drinks on me...

 

[BlankBeat]

Yes, He CLEARLY wants to return to be with Tifa and the kids, where he is HAPPY. Where he BELONGS. Both of which are things we have been explicitly told.

How does that prove they are in a romantic relationship?

Also, the credits in both AC and ACC lead me to believe otherwise.

The point I'm making is that Nomura's quotes are addressing two different time periods.

His first quote is addressing the two years after FFVII. He has no idea about the status of their relationship during CoT. The entire reason I brought this quote up is because it means the HAHW scene does not necessarily lead to a romantic relationship. If Nomura doesn't know the status of their relationship for the two years after FFVII ended, the HAHW scene proves N-O-T-H-I-N-G.

His second quote is addressing AC when the "truth" of their relationship finally becomes clear. This "truth" is up to interpretation.

 

[Dashell]

By definition, a truth can't be up to interpretation.

 

[BlankBeat]

For that matter, if there's no "official" translation, what makes you think you can just chose one at random?...

If you only trust official translations, only USE official translations... don't just pick and choose because one proves your point...


I Just


adhfkjshfaksadhfdas




sorry I hate this fucking LTD...


I agree... so we're done here, right?... drinks on me...

You can accept whatever translation you want.

I've simply provided evidence that supports my translations.

Just as you say I'm only accepting translations that support my point-of-view, I could say the same for you.

We will simply have to agree to disagree since there is no official translation.

 

[BlankBeat]

By definition, a truth can't be up to interpretation.

Nomura never tells us what this "truth" is. Therefore, the "truth" as we see it depends on how we interpret what transpired during AC.

 

[Dashell]

Where's the evidence that your translation is right? I missed that.

Just as you say I'm only accepting translations that support my point-of-view, I could say the same for you.

The difference is, I can do the work myself and say "I agree" with his translation. I can read it myself and he's right.

And no I don't just accept translations that prove my point of view. For a long time I supported Chibica's "Dimley fell in love with" translation over the "Secretly fell in love with" one that Tres provided.


Oh and look:

“A girl with the blood of the Ancients flowing through her veins who is engraved in Cloud’s heart for the rest of his life” ~Square Enix

Not an official translation... explain that.

 

[Ryushikaze]

What transpired during AC was a story of a man brought low by self doubt and disease and fear of losing his family finding confidence, health, and security through some divine intervention and killing the shadow of his greatest fears, so he could return to said family.

Period.

 

[Dashell]

Nomura never tells us what this "truth" is. Therefore, the "truth" as we see it depends on how we interpret what transpired during AC.

Just cause he never tells us doesn't mean there isn't a truth... if there's a truth there's an answer... that's like saying, "Grass is one color"


Are you going to tell me it could be red now because I didn't say which color it is?

Period.

Don't remind me

 

[BlankBeat]

Until Nomura tell us what the "truth" is, all we can do is offer our own opinions of what we believe this "truth" is based on our own interpretations.

I provide the evidence for my translations on page 335. I even responded to you directly...

Anyway. I don't want to get bogged down with pointless bickering so I'll try to finish my response to everyone within the next couple of days.

 

[Dashell]

But you didn't... you showed us two words and that's it... you didn't show anything else...

Tres broke down the entire thing... that's like be going.

(FFVIIUO, pg. 15)
最終決戦を前に一時解散を宣言し、飛空艇に残ったティファと想いを通わせる。

Bold part is Tifa, so they totally make love under the Highwind!

Do you have a break down of the sentence or not?

I don't want to get bogged down with pointless bickering

What thread do you think this is?


and just please, explain to me why 6you have an unofficial translation in your signature if fan translations can't be trusted?

 

[BlankBeat]

Maybe I'm confused about which translation you are referring to...

 

[Dashell]

“A girl with the blood of the Ancients flowing through her veins who is engraved in Cloud’s heart for the rest of his life” ~Square Enix

That isn't the official translation, so why do you use that and not the official one if fan translations can't be trusted?

 

[BlankBeat]

That isn't the official translation, so why do you use that and not the official one if fan translations can't be trusted?

Isn't the Japanese version different than the version that is used for the United States?

If you want, I could use Japanese characters instead of English...?

 

[Ryushikaze]

So, summing up, fan translations can be trusted.... if he wants to trust them. If he doesn't, they can't.

Just the kind of standards I've come to expect from you, Blanky me Intellectually Dishonest Swot.

 

[Dashell]

Isn't the Japanese version different than the version that is used for the United States?

What?


The English translation translates it to exactly what the phrase means... "engraved in the heart" means to never forget. I'm pretty sure you've been told this. It's an idiom... do you know what an idiom is?

Same with how Tifa's promise is etched in his heart... it means he'll never forget it...

 

[BlankBeat]

...and why won't he ever forget these things?

...could it possibly have to do with the feelings he has...?

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

He won't forget these things because they're important to him, that's why.