The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

[I Am Not Me]

Lawlz.

So your stand was all is up to interpretation. Except then both are canon.

Then lastly, Clerith is canon.

You're not dishonest at all.









Yeah, okay. Bye.

 

[Strangelove]

Lawlz.

So your stand was all is up to interpretation. Except then both are canon.

Then lastly, Clerith is canon.

Hasn't this always been the stand? The whole 'both are canon/none are canon' thing just seems like a cover for '...but c/a is more canon'.

'Always' as in recent years. This both canon interpretation wasn't around when I first saw this debate, when AC was announced.

 

[Wolfmania]

What? Kenshin and Tomoe were canonly married. How could it be close to Cloud/Aerith?

Notice:

I actually think that the relationship Clerith's wished that Cloud and Aerith had

Aerith is somehow similar with Tomoe because of their motives to got close and attracted to the second guy; Tomoe had revenge of Kiyosato and Aerith was reminded of Zack; but both of them then fell in love genuinely.

The thing that I think that Clerith's want to see in Cloud and Aerith's relationship is the soothing of the un-happiness of life, and the discovery of a new, happier way of life, that Tomoe was able to give Kenshin through her love, their life toguether and all that stuff. Which is why they say he always goes to meet Aerith and other strange things like that.

That's what I was likening Clerith's perceptions to. Not the canon. Just to clear that up.

Another one closest thing I think of this is... Kenshin had unforgivable sins for killing Kiyosato and Tomoe, that they two gave him a scar on his face. And this scar slowly diminish after Kenshin moved on and found his happiness with Kaoru.

Yeah, sure. In the manga, those two scars are destiny's curse on him; they represent his guilt. And when he's able to finally forgive himself for killing the person he loves, her first happiness and his various other sins, his guilt diminishes, but never fully dissapears(understandably so).

In Tsuioku-hen, however, the meaning of the scar was changed completely - for the better, in my opinion(really, though, that's because Tsuioku-hen is the series's magnum opus), but that's off-topic.

But well, yeah, Kenshin never met Kaoru before he met Tomoe nor being Kaoru's childhood friend and having a crush to her first. So.... Kiyasato/Tomoe/kenshin perhaps is almost identical with Zack/Aerith/Cloud but Tomoe/Kenshin/Kaoru will never be as complicated as Aerith/Cloud/Tifa unless Cleriths also move on to let Cloud loves Tifa.

Those are not really the aspects I was examining, though, as my second point stated. Sorry if that was unclear.

But, even then, I myself would never liken something as dark, grim, beautiful, complex and cathartic as TomoexKenshin to the canon, where the romance is pretty much just an after-thought and a sub-theme at best. I'm just likening it to what some Clerith's canon's are.

 

[Danseru-kun]

TomoexKenshin also works on the premise that they lived together as husband and wife, they only fell in love in that period. Slowly. And Kenshin met Kaoru after 10 years, twice the time Aerith had waited for Zack. Clerith is too far from KenshinxTomoe.

Also, before it gets buried under my mind, Clerith's theme of "life and death" is hardly a recurring theme in FF romances, even if it is, there's actually a lot more in Cloti.

Promises

• Zerith- Seeing the sky together, returning back to Aerith
• Squinoa - "I'll wait for you" or something
• Cloti- Promise to protect her
• Tuna - Promise to come to each other when they hear whistles, seeing Zanarkand together
• Snerah - Snow promising never to leave her or something (and The Promise theme)

Stars and night sky

• FFVI, The Opera's lyrics
• FFVII - Shooting stars, stars with Tifa
• FFVIII- Ballroom dancing scene
• FFX- Suteki da ne Lyrics and Macalania Spring Scene
• FFXIII- Snow and Serah's date in Gold Saucer and Eternal Love lyrics
• FFXIII Versus - Stella and Noctis name meanings

Childhood friends

• Cecil x Rosa - childhood friends
• Lulu x Wakka - childhood friends
• Vaan x Penelo - childhood friends
• Cloud x Tifa - childhood friends
• Rem x Machina (Type-0) - childhood friends and destroyed hometown

Mutual confirmation of feelings

FTOIL page mostly

• IngusxSarah
• CecilxRosa hug/kiss
• Celes and Locke
• HW scene
• Squinoa hug
• Zell and Pig-tailed Girl
• SteinerxBeatrix
• Zidagger
• Tuna - Macalania Spring (+stars)

Black haired (and straight haired too) love interest

• Tifa
• Rinoa
• Garnet

This is pretty trivial but the guy is always older or they're the same age.


Cecil - 20
Rosa - 19
Locke - 25
Celes - 18

Cloud - 21
Tifa - 20

Zack - 23 (16 when he met Aerith)
Aerith - 22 (15 when she met Zack)

Squall - 17
Rinoa - 17

Zidane - 16
Garnet - 16

Yuna - 17
Tidus - 17

Vaan - 17
Penelo - 16 (japanese version, 17 in NA version)

Lulu - 22
Wakka - 24

Beatrix - 27/28
Steiner - 33

Serah - 18
Snow - 21

 

[null]

Lawlz.

So your stand was all is up to interpretation. Except then both are canon.

Then lastly, Clerith is canon.

You're not dishonest at all.

Yeah, okay. Bye.

Yeah every so often we make a new friend in here, except somehow with the exact same recurring shtick, going in circles, dancing around, not really trying to prove anything.

So goodbye new yet somehow old friend, and try to do more with less typing next time!

 

[Wolfmania]

TomoexKenshin also works on the premise that they lived together as husband and wife, they only fell in love in that period. Slowly.

Some Clerith's have outright told me that Cloud and Aerith had already reached the status of "lovers" by the time of Aerith's death, hence implying they fell in love slowly during only that small period they were toguether and that would make it pretty equatable(sans the method of death) to the star-crossed lovers tragedy where one of them died.

Sounds delusional, I know. But I was not really talking canon to begin with. More like Clerith!Canon.

And Kenshin met Kaoru after 10 years, twice the time Aerith had waited for Zack.

Again, I must reiterate, that I was talking more about the Kenshin/Tomoe dynamic before the tradedy of her death. As to not cause any mis-understandings.

Clerith is too far from KenshinxTomoe.

If we're talking canon? Couldn't agree more. One is to the other what hydrogen is to macaroni.

However, if we were talking about a relationship dynamic from a Clearith perspective, I honestly think they would choose something like KenshinxTomoe.

 

[Danseru-kun]

Again, I must reiterate, that I was talking more about the Kenshin/Tomoe dynamic before the tradedy of her death. As to not cause any mis-understandings.

Yeah I understand. But just to add personality wise KenshinxTomoe is also about two people who aren't really expressive of their feelings. One poignant scene even has Tomoe moving her lips but not speaking words because of all the feelings she has. Wow sounds familiar.

But really, like we've said like a thousand times Cloud loving Aerith is not really a Cloti ship sinker, some shippers want that but it's not. Love arrows are not only to one person, they can be many.

 

[Wolfmania]

But just to add personality wise KenshinxTomoe is also about two people who aren't really expressive of their feelings. One poignant scene even has Tomoe moving her lips but not speaking words because of all the feelings she has. Wow sounds familiar.

Yeah, Aerith is much different because she's upfront, but I could maybe see Cloud fitting in that.

Still, I stand by what I think Clerith's want CloudxAerith to be like, when it's not. Those two people, who fell in love, they soothed each other's hearts, showed each other how to love again, showed each other the happiness of a different kind of "life"(lack of a better word for VII's case), became lovers and were eventually separated by tragedy.
When it's just not like that.

But really, like we've said like a thousand times Cloud loving Aerith is not really a Cloti ship sinker, some shippers want that but it's not. Love arrows are not only to one person, they can be many.

True, true.

But maybe I'm just being hard, it's just that I don't think there should be a "Cloud ---- wuvs ----> Aerith" arrow at all

:S:S:S

 

[I Am Not Me]

Still, I stand by what I think Clerith's want CloudxAerith to be like, when it's not. Those two people, who fell in love, they soothed each other's hearts, showed each other how to love again, showed each other the happiness of a different kind of "life"(lack of a better word for VII's case), became lovers and were eventually separated by tragedy.
When it's just not like that.

Actually sounds like Zerith in a few instances. More so on the fell in love and separated by tragedy parts. Possibly also in the 'soothing each other's hearts' part.

Although I'm not comparing Zerith to Kenshin x Tomoe. Just a thought.

 

[Wolfmania]

Actually sounds like Zerith in a few instances. More so on the fell in love and separated by tragedy parts. Possibly also in the 'soothing each other's hearts' part.

Yeah, on those terms, they sound pretty comparable. Obviously, though, they're also different because of some things Denseru, El and I already pointed out.

But heck, fuck that. Clerith's actually want Clerith to be Zerith? Ohgodthemindfuck.

 

[I Am Not Me]

That's why I think a portion of them hate Zack and Crisis Core. It just spits on a lot of Clerith things they had as "themes" for their pairing. In fact, sometimes you'd think it's deliberate that SE made Zerith the way it is.

Off the top of my head, here are some Clerith things SE officially made Zerith:

• The color pink = definitely Zerith; Aerith was wearing pink for the next time she meets Zack; it was also the predominant color of the Clerith forums (which is now blue--the Clack color )

• The one date deal = stemmed from Zerith; Zack asked Aerith this in CC, and in the OG, Aerith used this on Cloud

• The pink ribbon = Zack bought it for Aerith; this was used as some sort of "red ribbon of fate" interpretation during the time AC was released

• The flowers = Cloud put Zack's sword in them, and planted flowers on Zack's grave (sometimes I think the flowers grew there on their own, which could mean it's all Aerith's doing)

• The separation by tragedy = it can't get any more official than this; and more tearjearky than this; Zack's last thoughts were Aerith, his last stand was to get to Aerith, we see OG!version Aerith looking up to the sky with a heartbroken face as she realizes Zack has died and joined with the lifestream

• First meeting by falling in the church = also made Zerith, when it was once exclusively Clerith; Zerith version has more romantic undertones in which Aerith gets called an angel by Zack, without an option to call her a slum drunk either

I can't remember the others, I'm too sleepy right now. Might edit this post to if/when I remember.


Edit:

Here are also some Clerith!Aerith things SE officially made also Zack things:

• Laughter with Cloud = some Cleriths argue Aerith made Cloud laugh after their first meeting, which must mean there's huge attraction between them; except the same thing happens between Zack and Cloud, and they even laugh together the first time they talked

• AC's back to back scene = This one is the most obvious, they updated Advent Children to specifically add more Seventh Heaven family scenes, more Zack, and more blood; they made a point to make Zack's appearance to Cloud more encouraging to him than Aerith's appearance

 

[Wolfmania]

That's why I think a portion of them hate Zack and Crisis Core. It just spits on a lot of Clerith things they had as "themes" for their pairing. In fact, sometimes you'd think it's deliberate that SE made Zerith the way it is.

Off the top of my head, here are some Clerith things SE officially made Zerith:

• The color pink = definitely Zerith; Aerith was wearing pink for the next time she meets Zack; it was also the predominant color of the Clerith forums (which is now blue--the Clack color )

• The one date deal = stemmed from Zerith; Zack asked Aerith this in CC, and in the OG, Aerith used this on Cloud

• The pink ribbon = Zack bought it for Aerith; this was used as some sort of "red ribbon of fate" interpretation during the time AC was released

• The flowers = Cloud put Zack's sword in them, and planted flowers on Zack's grave (sometimes I think the flowers grew there on their own, which could mean it's all Aerith's doing)

• The separation by tragedy = it can't get any more official than this; and more tearjearky than this; Zack's last thoughts were Aerith, his last stand was to get to Aerith, we see OG!version Aerith looking up to the sky with a heartbroken face as she realizes Zack has died and joined with the lifestream

I can't remember the others, I'm too sleepy right now. Might edit this post to if/when I remember.


Edit:

Here are also some Clerith!Aerith things SE officially made also Zack things:

• Laughter with Cloud = some Cleriths argue Aerith made Cloud laugh after their first meeting, which must mean there's huge attraction between them; except the same thing happens between Zack and Cloud, and they even laugh together

• AC's back to back scene = This one is the most obvious, they updated Advent Children to specifically add more Seventh Heaven family scenes, more Zack, and more blood; they made a point to make Zack's appearance to Cloud more encouraging to him than Aerith's appearance

:S:S

Not gonna lie, this was actually quite eye-opening for me. Gosh. It really is bizarre when you think about it. Honestly, if I didn't know better(or, maybe...) I'd say that SE was purposefully "ret-conning" these "themes".

Heck, when you put it in a line-up like that, It even sounds a tad bit...spiteful, I would say. But that's a 99% chance to just be me. :S

 

[I Am Not Me]

:S:S

Not gonna lie, this was actually quite eye-opening for me. Gosh. It really is bizarre when you think about it. Honestly, if I didn't know better(or, maybe...) I'd say that SE was purposefully "ret-conning" these "themes".

Heck, when you put it in a line-up like that, It even sounds a tad bit...spiteful, I would say. But that's a 99% chance to just be me. :S

I don't think it's spiteful. Well, intentionally anyway. XD

SE did those things in Crisis Core as a call-back to the OG, I'm sure. In Advent Children Complete... well, I'm not entirely sure. I've always said this but it says a lot when SE themselves removed Aerith from those flowerfields in the ending sequence when they really could've left her there. Seems to me they were trying to clear some misconceptions.

 

[Strangelove]

i think 'cloud is searching flower fields as a means of connecting with aerith, based on reasons [idk lens flare?]' is a step beyond a misconception

that's just straight up making things up

 

[Wolfmania]

I don't think it's spiteful. Well, intentionally anyway. XD

Well, SE is, sometimes, unwilling masters of un-intentional hilarity, to be sure.

In Advent Children Complete... well, I'm not entirely sure. I've always said this but it says a lot when SE themselves removed Aerith from those flowerfields in the ending sequence when they really could've left her there. Seems to me they were trying to clear some misconceptions.

Ah. The notorious "Spirt-sex" theory, I take it?

I actually kinda liked that one. Only because it's so dirty and kinky.

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

It's not spiteful, it's like a homage. Some Cleriths actually enjoy the parallels between ZxA and CxA. It doesn't change or ruin or undermine the scenes from the OG in any way, those scenes and times are still beautiful in their way and Cloud and Aerith still have a special bond

 

[I Am Not Me]

It's not spiteful, it's like a homage. Some Cleriths actually enjoy the parallels between ZxA and CxA. It doesn't change or ruin or undermine the scenes from the OG in any way, those scenes and times are still beautiful in their way and Cloud and Aerith still have a special bond

I did say only a portion of Cleriths dislike all these things and think that, yes, they do undermine Clerith things. Probably why CxA forms is now Clack!blue instead of pink? I don't know. I know Zack/Aerith/Cloud is a an OT3 to some Cleriths, so it's all good. It's also my OT3 but in this order: Cloud/Zack/Aerith. Because Clack is forever.




I don't know what I'm talking about anymore. I'm too sleepy now. I'll see you later, LTD thrad.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

Ah. The notorious "Spirt-sex" theory, I take it?

I actually kinda liked that one. Only because it's so dirty and kinky.

I know a fanfic that will change your mind.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

i think 'cloud is searching flower fields as a means of connecting with aerith, based on reasons [idk lens flare?]' is a step beyond a misconception

that's just straight up making things up

When you've somehow already fabricated dialogue into the movie in which Aerith tells Cloud that he can't be with her yet, it must seem like a pretty intuitive reading of things.

 

[eleamaya]

Hey, I Am Not Me, I'll be with you to defend Cloud's to Zack if there's Cleriths downplaying it. Look at tumblr now how they presume that Buster Sword in Aerith's church now is seen as Clerith because Cloud is the last person who owned it! Or, they make a joke that it's also Angeal/Aerith pairing. We see the scene that Cloud honored Zack only, right? CMIIW.

That's why I think a portion of them hate Zack and Crisis Core. It just spits on a lot of Clerith things they had as "themes" for their pairing. In fact, sometimes you'd think it's deliberate that SE made Zerith the way it is.

Off the top of my head, here are some Clerith things SE officially made Zerith:

• The color pink = definitely Zerith; Aerith was wearing pink for the next time she meets Zack; it was also the predominant color of the Clerith forums (which is now blue--the Clack color )
• The one date deal = stemmed from Zerith; Zack asked Aerith this in CC, and in the OG, Aerith used this on Cloud
• The pink ribbon = Zack bought it for Aerith; this was used as some sort of "red ribbon of fate" interpretation during the time AC was released
• The flowers = Cloud put Zack's sword in them, and planted flowers on Zack's grave (sometimes I think the flowers grew there on their own, which could mean it's all Aerith's doing) --> that's also Zack who also made her become a flower vendor
• The separation by tragedy = it can't get any more official than this; and more tearjearky than this; Zack's last thoughts were Aerith, his last stand was to get to Aerith, we see OG!version Aerith looking up to the sky with a heartbroken face as she realizes Zack has died and joined with the lifestream

I can't remember the others, I'm too sleepy right now. Might edit this post to if/when I remember.

I think the most hate retcon of Zerith's theme by Clerith's is their first meeting because it seemed so iconic to Cleriths. But, hey, sometimes they forget that Cloud's first meeting with Aerith was happened in the street after the AVALANCHE mission. And, look how Aerith was not attracted at all to Cloud and just simply selling flower. So, it's a plotwise to make Zack also fell to the Church because it's straightly linked how Aerith then became so aggressive.

But, still, though most of Zerith seemed developed from Clerith, Zerith still had their own original romance aspects about looking at the eyes and seeing a sky. You can find it in many romance song easily. I don't deny Clerith moments but I dont think Clerith have an iconic romance term that differentiate it to Zerith's looking at the eyes/azure sky and Cloti's childhood crush/night sky. What? Their Gold Saucer date that ends magically ? Or the wrong wedding prediction?

When you've somehow already fabricated dialogue into the movie in which Aerith tells Cloud that he can't be with her yet, it must seem like a pretty intuitive reading of things.

i think that's Zack who said that

Btw, I have a thought that now flowers are refer to Zack and Aerith. I'm really pissed off when Cleriths' old theory saying that the daisy on Cloud's desk is still interpreted that Cloud pick them on the way home when he passed flower field in the ending. Spirit Sex, huh? They really don't wanna admit it's taken from Zack's grave. And remember Zack's quote in CC? He said that is his and Aerith's dream to fill Midgar with the flowers (though the scene is optional for making second wagon). So, to me, in ACC credit, the flower field could mean they both watching over Cloud riding home. Well, it's just my own interpretation since BB uses argument tnat Nomura said flowers is Aerith.

 

[BlankBeat]

When you've somehow already fabricated dialogue into the movie in which Aerith tells Cloud that he can't be with her yet, it must seem like a pretty intuitive reading of things.

If I phrased my response incorrectly, I'm sorry. I did not mean to say Aerith herself said it in the film.

What I was referring to is this quote: "The voices of two people very dear to him, who are no longer with him. Playfully and kindly, they give him a message: he doesn't belong here yet." ~FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania (Revised Edition) AC Playback

Sorry. I just can't let you continue thinking I "invented dialogue" because this is now the second or third time you've said it. Anyway -- I just wanted to set the record straight and clarify what I meant because you keep bringing it up.

Ok. Bye again!

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

Bye! Don't come back now, y'hear!

 

[eleamaya]

If I phrased my response incorrectly, I'm sorry. I did not mean to say Aerith herself said it in the film.

What I was referring to is this quote: "The voices of two people very dear to him, who are no longer with him. Playfully and kindly, they give him a message: he doesn't belong here yet." ~FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania (Revised Edition) AC Playback

Sorry. I just can't let you continue thinking I "invented dialogue" because this is now the second or third time you've said it. Anyway -- I just wanted to set the record straight and clarify what I meant because you keep bringing it up.

Ok. Bye again!

How many times do you downplay Zack, huh? The official quote is literally written that's both Zack and Aerith who said "he doesn't belong here yet" which is in the actual scene are: Aerith said, "This is too big to adopt" then Zack said, "Your place isn't here." So, yes, you invented your own dialog.

 

[Unlucky]

Yeah, Aerith is much different because she's upfront, but I could maybe see Cloud fitting in that.

Still, I stand by what I think Clerith's want CloudxAerith to be like, when it's not. Those two people, who fell in love, they soothed each other's hearts, showed each other how to love again, showed each other the happiness of a different kind of "life"(lack of a better word for VII's case), became lovers and were eventually separated by tragedy.
When it's just not like that.

This is so true, and my opinion on why some would want or argue that CxA is just like that is because it kind of deepens the impact/ gives more importance to Aerith in Cloud's life. Which is unnecessary because she already is, albeit not in that particular kind of way. Seems like the only way to validate this 'importance' is to morph the CxA connection into a story that it's not. When you think about it it's rather self-defeating.

Clerith appreciation, you're doing it wrong.

 

[I Am Not Me]

Hey, I Am Not Me, I'll be with you to defend Cloud's to Zack if there's Cleriths downplaying it. Look at tumblr now how they presume that Buster Sword in Aerith's church now is seen as Clerith because Cloud is the last person who owned it! Or, they make a joke that it's also Angeal/Aerith pairing. We see the scene that Cloud honored Zack only, right? CMIIW.

FELLOW ZACK DEFENDER! HOW I LOVE YOU! Also, you may call me Mei, it's a lot shorter.

Tumblr seems like a great place to stalk stupid arguments but I cba to make one because I probably won't be able to maintain it when I get busy again.

That argument is hilarious though.

This must mean Cloud visiting the Buster Sword and looking remorseful is actually Cloud visiting himself and being remorseful about...himself. The flashbacks incorporated with Zack during the time he visits the sword mean absolutely nothing.

He totally didn't put the Buster Sword there to honor Zack. He put it there to honor himself. Okay. Another douchey Clerith!Cloud interpretation then.

And they wonder why people ridicule them and have a hard time taking them seriously. At least Clacks have a firm grasp on what is canon (hint: it's in the buttsex).

Don't downplay Zack in front of me, because it will not end well for you.

I think the most hate retcon of Zerith's theme by Clerith's is their first meeting because it seemed so iconic to Cleriths.

Yeah, I remembered this as I was going to bed last night. I wanted to edit it into my post but I was already comfortable in bed at the time. I'm editing it in now.

But, hey, sometimes they forget that Cloud's first meeting with Aerith was happened in the street after the AVALANCHE mission. And, look how Aerith was not attracted at all to Cloud and just simply selling flower. So, it's a plotwise to make Zack also fell to the Church because it's straightly linked how Aerith then became so aggressive.

Exactly. Aerith wasn't attracted to Cloud until he fell on her flowers the same way Zack did. There's also the fact that his actions reminded her of Zack. I think it took her until the Gold Saucer date to finally realize she needs to stop looking at Zack qualities in Cloud, especially if she's fighting for his affections with another girl.

I think Aerith herself realized how unfair it would be to Tifa if she won Cloud over without even knowing and loving the real Cloud the way Tifa does. Because Aerith is a great character and not a homewrecking hoebag who has to permit Cloud to love other women.

But, still, though most of Zerith seemed developed from Clerith, Zerith still had their own original romance aspects about looking at the eyes and seeing a sky. You can find it in many romance song easily. I don't deny Clerith moments but I dont think Clerith have an iconic romance term that differentiate it to Zerith's looking at the eyes/azure sky and Cloti's childhood crush/night sky. What? Their Gold Saucer date that ends magically ? Or the wrong wedding prediction?

I thought it was her death and burial? A lot of arguments about Cloud's romantic feelings for her stem from Cloud's grief that she was murdered right in front of him. Even though the rest of the cast also grieved, and that Cloud's grief being greater is validated by the fact that if it wasn't Sephiroth who'd kill her, it would have been him. He was that close to chopping her head off. He also could have pushed her out of harm's way if Sephiroth hadn't been restraining him. There are a lot of factors other than romantic feelings that they just seem to forget.

Amano art too. Even though Amano wasn't really part of the FFVII writing team. Or the team in general. Also because Amano art apparently ships Cloud/Red XIII too.

I mean, they can't even claim exclusive rights to the Gold Saucer date because:

1. Cloud can date other people, including his other love interest, Tifa.
2. The theme for the date scene is called "Interrupted by Fireworks". However, Aerith was never interrupted by fireworks during that date. Tifa was. Might be a hint to something, but I don't know.
3. In their beloved screencap of it in FTOIL page, it has the caption that basically says Cloud can date other people. This is always conveniently brushed aside because it doesn't help their case.
4. Arguably the most romantic date scene is Yuffie's. She kisses Cloud during that date. Aerith and Tifa never even got that far. Nor Barret, but Clotis always exclude Barret, right, so who cares?
5. It's optional with up to 3 other choices.

By the way, I'm not making any of this stuff up. None of them are interpretation. Make that as you will.

Neither of the azure sky and night sky themes are optional for Zerith and Cloti. Whether you get LAHW or HAHW, it doesn't change the fact that Cloti had a non-optional scene under the stars. Both pairings also have non-optional promise scenes. Cloti has repeated references to this promise--it's like SE is trying to tell us something.

Of course, Clerith has this commercial that captions Cloud burying Aerith as "Love". Except they forget that the exact words are "Love that could never be". So... along with the failed wedding prediction, what do we have?





LONG POST IN THE MORNING! GOOD MORNING LTD THRAD