The Love Triangle Debate thread of KNEEL BEFORE ZOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH (ignore the opening posts at your peril) (Round 6)

[Lex]

Eh, but what's the point of a poll if you don't want to know what people think?

Well of course, if you're talking about a general poll. We're talking about a GameFAQs poll, where there are a number of ways to get around the IP logging and register multiple votes.

The point is, you can't trust a poll posted anywhere on GameFAQs, it's really that simple. They're broken and easily exploited. All it would take for me to make Tifa "win" in that poll is to turn something like Hotspot shield on and off while refreshing the page and voting over and over again. It's not difficult or even time consuming, it would take about 5-10 minutes to register 100 votes or something.

Therefore GameFAQs polls actually never represent what people think, because they're unreliable and people DO exploit them.

 

[eleamaya]

If Aerith had survived, sometimes Cleriths forget how it would be when Cloud then remember Zack after regain his lose memory in Lifestream. I think it was not easy. I think Cloud would tell her what happened, he know what he did in Gongaga, he knew Aerith is Zack's girlfriend, and he has guilt for Zack's death only. In new 25th Ultimania, we know how many Zack is mentioned in Cloud's profile if Cleriths never admit how important his role in Original Game.

Nojima also said Cloud and Aerith probably going well, but their issue is Aerith has burden as Cetra. Her role in FF7 as main heroine is as Cetra. And one man who never care about this issue and compatible more with her is only Zack, if he had lived too.

 

[Kittie]

I don't think Aerith would definitely end up with Cloud if she survived, my answer is probably. Aerith might have scored more with Cloud at the start but I don't think Tifa will give up easily, she'll catch up with Aerith eventually. She may be shy but she's also determined.

I think the reason Tifa finds it hard to connect more to Cloud in Disc 1 is the fact that she knows something was wrong with him while Aerith detected this much later does not have a clue on its extent.

So probably Aerith would have ended but never definitely.

As for Zack's case, I think if he was able to return before Aerith sent out her last letter, it's a definite happy ever after. However, if he returned at that point in Crisis Core, though Aerith will be happy to see him again, I don't think it's 100% that Aerith will want to be his girlfriend again, or at least it may take time for them to make up for the lost time. Eitherway, if Zack lives, I don't think Aerith will fall in love with Cloud. Just my cents in the matter.

I agree with you, Danseru. If Aerith had lived, then I believe it’s very much possible that she could’ve ended up with Cloud in the game. If that had indeed been the case, I’d give both Aerith and Tifa a 50/50 chance of ending up with him. Aerith was more open and upfront in her feelings for Cloud, certainly; however, Tifa also had a history with Cloud, as both lost almost everything important to them when Sephiroth destroyed Nibelheim.

I know I’m getting into hypothetical territory here, but I’ve long wondered what Aerith would’ve done if she’d lived to meet the real Cloud after the Lifestream event. If she had known that Cloud had harbored feelings for Tifa, and had joined SOLDIER because of Tifa, just as Tifa had long had feelings for him, would she have continued to pursue a relationship with him. I’ve kept in mind that was she was also friends with Tifa; and, in by knowing the truth, I don’t know if she would’ve pursued a relationship with Cloud, not if her intervention hurt both Cloud and Tifa in the process. I just don’t know if it was within Aerith’s nature to go that far.

Still, though, I like to think of what might’ve been if Aerith had lived, but I don’t think FFVII would’ve had the same impact on people, without her death; and it’s by her unexpected passing that makes whatever relationship she could’ve had with Cloud that much more tragic and heartfelt. I confess I do have a bit of a soft spot for Cloud and Aerith, as I do with Zack and Aerith, but I can also acknowledge that there’s something between Cloud and Tifa, as well.

Either way the chips fall, it's all just a love square to me!

 

[Ⓐaron]

As I said in the "rants about fandom" thread, I don't really see any reason to speculate that Cloud would have ended up with one and not the other had Aerith survived the events of the game. The two of them are on pretty good terms and I suspect the fact that both of them had feelings for them would have meant that they'd talk about those feelings at some point. They also seem mature enough not to let something like having mutual feelings for the same guy get in the way of their friendship. Which could very easily translate to them deciding to share him.

Of course, all any of us can say is what we'd have done if we were writing the story. Barring the absence of interviews or similar material from the creators, we can't say what the creators would have done, since the creators decided to kill her off. Playing what-if games is fun, but ultimately the end product is what it is and Cloud ended up with Tifa.

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

Holy crap ... I was away for a nap and when I woke up I remembered the latest activity in this thread ... and I came to post about why did Cloud/the girls have to choose ... and Aaron already did it! ...

 

[Farron]

I think that Tifa and Cloud would've ended up together if Aerith or Aeris lived, because of the whole Lifestream scene and how Tifa is really the only person who can connect to Cloud and know the real him and the true past. I think that Aerith fancied Cloud at first but then realized that Cloud is not Zack, Cloud is not her long lost love, Cloud is this strange mysterious man who is for some strange reason is not being himself and is acting like Zack.

Hence her " I want to know the real you " at the Gold Saucer date. It's not really a " I love you " confession just a " Hey Cloud, you are not acting like yourself, that's cool but I want to know the real you, the real Cloud, I would really like that ".

I really believed that Aerith loved Zack through and through and just had a slight crush on Cloud when they first meet but before her death she realizes that Cloud is not Zack, but she still loves Cloud as a friend and wants to meet and greet the real Cloud.

 

[SirVival]

I still feel offended everytime I think Aerith would not end up with Cloud. How dare you make me feel offended.

 

[laurence]

I agree with you Hallelujah. I think it's no coincidence that in the creators' mind they made Cloud share some of Zack's memories/behavior and mirrored them to Aerith, the one girl that was close to him (zack) and showed up at the right place at the right time to meet the one person, Cloud, whom she began to have a crush on. I think she also had a motherly kind of love toward him, btw.
But there's no evidence that she loved loved Cloud for who he really is.

As for Cloud, he may have been getting closer to Aerith, which may also partly be explained by a portrayal of some of Zack's reminiscence love toward her. Now, they might have possibly began to cultivate a deeper love if Aeris lived, but again there's no evidence for that as she died.

What i'm getting at is that the creators clearly thought that it was Cloud's fate to end up with Tifa (because of Aerith's death) and that Aerith should end up with Zack (hence their reunion in AC). And no, before you bite me, I'm not saying that Tifa and Cloud are romantic partners in AC, but they are together nonetheless, and it's very probable that after Cloud has settled his guilt about Zack and Aerith things may take their natural course towards real love.

Now, could things have gone differently if Aerith survived? Of course! But we're entering the fanfiction realm at that point, which is what this debate is mostly about as far as I'm concerned. There's no hard evidence to support which character Cloud preferred as a romantic partner before Aerith died. I partly lean toward Tifa more because the things they have said and done for each other seemed more deep and noble than what Cloud and Aeriith shared. But again that's my own opinion.

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

GUYS THIS GUY ON A FORUM SAID CLOUD LOVED AERITH HURRY AND GO THERE AND TELL HIM HE'S WRONG!!!





or something

I'm not asking you to tell them they're wrong. I'm just asking you to vote. Feel free to debate if you'd like though. And the problem isn't that they're saying he loved Aerith, they're saying he'd rather be with Aerith than Tifa, which is highly unlikely.

 

[Unlucky]

I personally don't see the need to reinforce people to vote to prove what's canon. Voting is generally harmless but I say let them have it their way. If they ire you so much with their 'canon' beliefs then ask if they're interested to debate or provide them sources of canon materials. Or invite them here Otherwise, knowing how toxic (and sort of immature) this LTD has become, I wouldn't be so worked up about it.

 

[Dashell]

I'm not asking you to tell them they're wrong. I'm just asking you to vote. Feel free to debate if you'd like though. And the problem isn't that they're saying he loved Aerith, they're saying he'd rather be with Aerith than Tifa, which is highly unlikely.

WELL SHIT MY BAD THEN


... seriously who cares?

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

People on sites and forums other than THIS one think Clerith is canon/vote for it in polls? TLS becomes as unto a Honey Badger... and gives no fucks

 

[Unlucky]

When it comes to LTD outside (or even in) TLS.. be a honey badger. It's very cool.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Forgive me for posting both of these, but they follow each other so perfectly it had to be done:

Spoiler: Honey Badger don't care

Spoiler: Like a boss

From now on, let this be your philosophy for any who do not bring the debate before us here

 

[Groodon]

Hey guys, new here. Here is my take on it. I am a Zaerith fan so my opinion might be pretty biased. However, Aerith gets to know Cloud for maybe two weeks? And on these weeks he clearly think he is Zack in some way. He also resembles Zack in his appearance. Aerith doesn't get to know the real Cloud, but only the Zack inside him.
Tifa have known Cloud since childhood, they have alot of common and she is the only one who knows the "real" Cloud of the two girls.
I would also really like to think that Zack and Aerith is happily together in the lifestream, as shown in the ending of AC. I mean, it also fits the best. I would be really sad as a Clerith fan. That would probably imply a Cloud that cannot let go, and a Tifa who wants someone who is love in a dead person. It makes me happy to think of Zack and Aerith in the lifestream happy, and Cloud and Tifa living happy.

 

[Danseru-kun]

Hey guys, new here. Here is my take on it. I am a Zaerith fan so my opinion might be pretty biased. However, Aerith gets to know Cloud for maybe two weeks? And on these weeks he clearly think he is Zack in some way. He also resembles Zack in his appearance. Aerith doesn't get to know the real Cloud, but only the Zack inside him.
Tifa have known Cloud since childhood, they have alot of common and she is the only one who knows the "real" Cloud of the two girls.
I would also really like to think that Zack and Aerith is happily together in the lifestream, as shown in the ending of AC. I mean, it also fits the best. I would be really sad as a Clerith fan. That would probably imply a Cloud that cannot let go, and a Tifa who wants someone who is love in a dead person. It makes me happy to think of Zack and Aerith in the lifestream happy, and Cloud and Tifa living happy.

Hello there Groodon! I'm a Zerith myself and you can check my Zerith write-ups in tumblr. I disagree with Aerith knowing only Zack, I agree that she doesn't get to know the real Cloud much, but she knew aspects of him nonetheless.

Anyway, there are no quotes indicating Cloud is in love with Aerith in AC, and rather, there is nothing saying he felt the same for her. But she does prove to be someone Cloud was at least interested on, as Cloud wavers between two heroines at the beginning of the game.

 

[eleamaya]

@Groodon: Welcome, fellow Zerith fan! let me hug you! You can meet me too in tumblr, personal account or rp account XD.

Well, to me, Aerith realized not to compare Zack and Cloud anymore after Gongaga. Zack's parents report must be shock her and return her to reality and she confessed it in Gold Saucer date. I see it as completely moving on, wanted to see Cloud as Cloud and developed her deep feeling toward him. The saddest part to me is she never got much chance to get to know him because she was killed shortly after.

If in Tumblr you find Clerith claimed she loved Cloud more than Zack, don't trust them.

 

[Groodon]

thanks! *hugs back*
I sat literally a week, after the ending of crisis core, on the internet searching for theories about the love triangle. I try to say to myself all the time now that Zack and Aerith are happily together in the lifestream. I've never felt such an emotional connection for fictional characters. It's pretty weird when I think about it, how much I care for them x.x

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

"I don't know if you could really say that FFVII had any unanswered questions to speak of. We just created FFVII with the idea that we wouldn't just come out and tell people the answers. The answers are there, but no one is there to tell you where to look for them. We didn't leave anything hanging."

Now, since this quote proves there are no unanswered questions, I looked into the game to see what the answer to the question of whether or not Tifa loved Aerith is. And I'm going to have to conclude that yes, Tifa did love Aerth. First of all, Tifa says she and Cloud are just friends to Aerith when they first meet. This was clearly so Aerith didn't get the wrong idea about Tifa and Cloud so Tifa could still have a chance with Aerith. Second of all, Tifa is constantly worrying about Aerith after Aerith is kidnapped, and mentions her quite often. Here's the things she says for proof:

Aerith!!

Aerith!

Oh! Aerith!

You're going to help Aerith?

It's my fault... I was the one who got Aerith involved in this. I feel so depressed.

You're going after Aerith, right? I'm coming with you.

You're right. This is the only way to save Aerith...

Well, we've got to get to Aerith to help her somehow. I don't have time to argue with you. I'm going!

I hope Aerith is all right.

Remember, we're here to save Aerith.

...animal? That's terrible! Aerith is a human being!

Then, when everybody's captured and in the cells, Tifa gets jealous when Aerith mentions a deal to go on a date with Cloud, because she loves them both and if they started dating each other that would suck for her.

Then, when Aerith dies, Tifa touches Aerith's face, then runs off crying, clearly showing Aerith's death has affecting her deeply.

And then, in the ending, Tifa expresses to Cloud her desire to meet Aerith in the Promised Land. Note that Cloud only thinks they could, while Tifa say they should.

And the final nail in the coffin, is the fact that the relationship between Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith is described as a love TRIANGLE. A Triangle has three connected lines in it. We already know there's mutual romantic feelings between Cloud and Tifa, and between Aerith and Cloud, but that only leaves us with two lines, which would give a love v, so there must be a third line between Tifa and Aerith.

And there you have it, Tifa loves Aerith, AerTi proofz ftw.

 

[eleamaya]

Haha, Vaan. You made me day XD.

Btw, about this "answer are there", I just wanna add a little about this "Aerith love Cloud more than Zack" for Goordon, because in Tumblr a Clerith fan posted an anti-Zerith in Zerith tag. I read the full Gongaga monolog in Dismantled:

I was a little surprised that this village was Zack’s birthplace! Although called my first love, that doesn’t mean that we became particularly intimate.
I encountered him by chance as a flower vendor in Midgar. It was good for a little while, so I thought. A friendly, childish SOLDIER, who even gave kindness to girls.
I encountered Zack and began to think that even a good natured person was from Shinra.
Therefore, 5 years ago, when Zack departed somewhere on a mission and he seemingly disappeared, I cried considerably. Yeah, I call this first love. Mother got angry at Zack when she saw me like that. That matter made him completely at fault.
At first when I met Cloud, I believed he was similar to Zack. Little actions, the way he spoke… his kindness. But Cloud is Cloud. I, now undoubtedly, love Cloud much more than Zack. But Cloud is clueless.

(- Aerith’s monologue in Gongaga.)

And my reaction is "Understandble, if Aerith's relationship with Zack was just as simple as that, undoubtedly she loved Cloud more than her first love." Cleriths just cut the lines, they ignore another new quote from Aerith's Ultimania profile, she's being intimate with Zack. And you can see in CC what their relationship actually is.

Now I understand why Cleriths are getting mad by Crisis Core. But, creators have rights to retcon and change anything. This game (2007) made them EVEN revised Advent Children and Case of Tifa (both are made in 2005) with huge implications:

• ACC: Zack's importance and appearance to Cloud being equal as Aerith's. Adding more Cloud's family scenes. Removing Aerith's in credit clip and add the flower-in-Zack's grave and Zack's sword-in-the-church.
• CoT: Adding Cloud's lines about I-have-you-this-time and it's-kind-of-different.

I don't think SE would remake Original Game, but if they did it and seeing what they did in AC and CoT because of CC, I'm sure they would edit and emphasize some OG scenes to make all the compilation fit each others.

Dismantled and MoTP, despite of canon or not, have been irrelevant and never be a part of Compilation like Last Order.

 

[Groodon]

Yeah. And you need to concsider those 89(?) letter that she sent. It wasn't just a flirt or anything unserious by any means. But I've heard that in some officiall novella they say that Aerith and Zack is together in the lifestream for eternity, watching over Cloud. So I think I will settle with this, and think of them happily together there

 

[Selphie Tilmitt]

I think there's a real need to be fair and sensible about this, less people cross lines they are dismissive of in others. There's also the they didn't have enough time/so they portrayed it like falling into a sudden crush/it was a virginal/platonic love line, etc for Zerith, they were not intimate in a sexual sense/they didn't consummate it in that way. If I remember right, Zack and Aerith really didn't get to spend that much time together since Zack was away on mission a lot, it's true they did manage to spend some quality time together in the church and went on a date to the park and slum market etc, where they got to know each other some, not to take away from that but they didn't get to go on holiday together, live together, travel together or even get to spend days at a time together so far as I know, I'm not even sure if whether or not it's been canonized or not that Aerith took Zack home to meet Elmyra or whether she just knew what Aerith told her. Living together, raising children together, things like that do things to people, milestones in relationships like that are things neither Aerith and Zack nor Aerith and Cloud got to do.

Of course there's nothing to say they might not have done eventually - though obviously there are/were issues there that would have to be dealt with like Aerith's unhappiness at Zack being away and her jealousy over his interactions with other women which if I'm not mistaken/remember right is mentioned in the CC Ultimania or somewhere as something Aerith is able to sense, and well if what happened to Zack in the end didn't happen well then he wouldn't have realized just how more important Aerith was to him than any other girls anyway, but for me this also applies to Cloud/Aerith too though again there would have still been issues there to address too, Aerith's role as a Cetra, Cloud's identity crisis, etc. I will mention with regards to Cloud/Tifa this would be before the Compilation/Advent Children stuffs though since I think there is enough evidence/stuff official to suggest Cloud/Aerith at least had a good chance and that OG alone at least left it kind of ambiguous as to what happened especially depending on the way the player played the game, whether or not they got the high affection version of the Highwind scene or not, before it came out the high affection Highwind scene being canonized in the Ultimanias, etc

 

[Roger]

I think there's a real need to be fair and sensible about this, less people cross lines they are dismissive of in others. There's also the they didn't have enough time/so they portrayed it like falling into a sudden crush/it was a virginal/platonic love line, etc for Zerith, they were not intimate in a sexual sense/they didn't consummate it in that way. If I remember right, Zack and Aerith really didn't get to spend that much time together since Zack was away on mission a lot, it's true they did manage to spend some quality time together in the church and went on a date to the park and slum market etc, where they got to know each other some, not to take away from that but they didn't get to go on holiday together, live together, travel together or even get to spend days at a time together so far as I know, I'm not even sure if whether or not it's been canonized or not that Aerith took Zack home to meet Elmyra or whether she just knew what Aerith told her.

Pre-Nibelheim Crisis Core alone covers a good two years. Pretty sure the big timeskip takes place after Angeals death.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

I remember the fact that Zack and Aeris were not together for that long was used against them (not that time is ever a problem when it comes to C/A).

Yet Z/A must have been intimate enough for the girl to write to him for 4 years w/o reply and to continue wearing pink & the ribbon he gave her as if he would come back and see it somehow. It's silly to say that Zack and Aeris weren't serious. He tells his parents about her. He thinks of her in his dying moments. She senses his pain/passing or whatever. And even 4 yrs later she follows Cloud around in the beginning because he reminds her of Zack. It takes her much of her time with Cloud to actually separate the two. Then they are together in the Lifestream, shooting the shit, etc.

Just sayin'

 

[Kermitu Kleric Katie]

But OWD, two weeks is way longer than two years, doncha know?